F1 Fanatic

Despite the title, I did not start this topic to start an argument perse. Rather, I want to try and understand why and how people feel regarding this subject, so please, discuss with that in mind and let this not become a “who’s better” thread.

There are a lot of different things influencing the speed of a Formula One car, today maybe even more then ever before, but generally a combination of factors can give a pretty good indication, and from that, an indication can be gotten of how well the driver performed.

One thing that stand out though, is that whenever it concerns either Fernando Alonso, Lewis Hamilton, or Sebastian Vettel, for many people the argument has gotten extremely black-and-white: if Alonso/Hamilton wins, people applaud them for their legendary drives. If Vettel runs of to a victory, he has done well but it is actually all down to the Red Bull being the fastest car.

No matter the circumstances, when Vettel wins, it’s always the car.

Thus, it has become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The believe is that Vettel is not as good a driver, thus when he wins it must be the car. The believe is that Alonso/Hamilton are the best drivers, thus when they win, it is their talent.

So my question is, why? How?
Why do you always believe that Vettel only delivers results if he has the fastest car? Even if his team-mate is not showing similar pace?
How come you believe that a victory from Alonso/Hamilton is by default down to talent, even when Massa is closer than usual and/or Button is also up there?
Why is it by default unfathomable that Vettel might just be that good that in an equal or slightly faster car, he can pull 20 seconds from the field, but do you believe it possible for Alonso/Hamilton to do it on talent?

Again, I am not looking for another debate on ‘who’s better’, I am merely trying to understand this self-fulfilling prophecy that many people seem to believe in.

Some circumstances that conspire against Sebastian:
1. He makes it look too easy. Many of his victories have come from pole, and he has been able to control the gap to the people behind. Races where the winner comes from further behind and has to make moves on track are more appreciated by the fans. If you look back at the wins of Alonso and Hamilton since the ‘rise’ of Vettel (and there haven’t been that many), they often involved heroic drives in inspiring races (for the lead but also further down the field), such as Valencia 2012, China 2011 or Canada 2010.
2. He has had the best car, for most of the time, since around Silverstone 2009, in particular one that could not often be challenged for pole, resulting in an ‘easy win’ (see point 1).

Why is it by default unfathomable that Vettel might just be that good that in an equal or slightly faster car, he can pull 20 seconds from the field, but do you believe it possible for Alonso/Hamilton to do it on talent?

This can only refer to last week in Valencia. For one, Alonso and Hamilton never pulled out 20 seconds in a single stint, and I’m not sure anyone believes it possible that they can. Second, I do not believe Sebastian became, overnight, 1.5s a lap faster than anyone else in a field of very talented drivers. Of course, there is the tyre management factor to take into account these days, so it could be down to him being better able to exploit 2012 Pirellis around the streets of Valencia, but still, his Red Bull was clearly in the zone whereas the McLarens were not.

Adrian;
Just to understand, what did you find particularly heroic about the 2010 Canadian Grand Prix, which Lewis won (in Vettel-style) from pole position?
Similarly, in the 2011 Chinese Grand Prix, Lewis was second after the first corner and had a tire strategy that helped him set a lot of fast laps. Why do you not consider the input of the car or strategy there? Lewis in his last stint took a lot of time, similar to Vettel in Valencia.

What I’m saying is, you mention two races that were won in a style very similar to Vettel’s. How do you consider them different, is what I would like to understand.

@mnmracer, first of all, Canada 2010 was an inspirational race – literally, because that is the reason the Pirellis were made not to last. Second, although Hamilton started from pole and won the race, his win was not Vettel-like in the sense that he controlled the gap throughout, seemingly unperturbed by those behind him. After less than 10 laps, I believe Vettel was right on his gearbox as Hamilton’s options started to grain badly whereas Vettel’s primes were still in reasonable shape. Then, he dropped behind Alonso in the pit stops and had to overtake him on track (aided by a backmarker getting in the way of Alonso, it has to be said, but still it was an overtake for the lead). Also, he was battling Webber who was leading on a different strategy that could have turned interesting if RBR hadn’t kept Webber out for too long, and then made him do a long final stint. Only at the end of the race did it become clear that the tyres were going to hold, but I (and many others) had been on the edge of my seat for well over an hour by then.

At this point I’d like to argue that Vettel has made more great passes this season than anyone.

@Kingshark
Just to get a measure on you, mind if I ask:
- You consider Massa to still be as fast as before his accident?
- Why do you consider only the beginning of this year indicative of Vettel’s talent, and not 2009-2011 where he beat Webber?
- You don’t think the >30 points Vettel lost, make basing talent on current standings a little skewed?

I completely agree with you, @mnm racer. I was flabbergasted to see Alonso become F1F’s best driver of the Valencia GP last week, because it was evident that Vettel was uncatchable that weekend. I wrote that in several comments and then got replies which were quite similar to your petitio pricipii-circle. And the funny thing is that I really don’t get it. Why do people still believe Vettel isn’t a worthy racing driver?

At least the tiring “Vettel can’t overtake” nonsense has finally stopped. I hope in time people will stop saying it is all about the car too.