De-Tilke-fication of F1 tracks (110 posts)

  • Profile picture of the_sigman the_sigman said 6 months ago:

    Bahrain

    http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5741148

    Hungaroring

    http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5741191

  • Profile picture of I've had it I’ve had it said 5 months, 1 week ago:

    Hermann Tilke is the second best track designer ever.

  • Profile picture of Nicholas Sunderland Nicholas Sunderland said 5 months, 1 week ago:

    @joey-zyla Based on what?

    Look at that, I have the most recent posts in the top four threads right now :P

  • Profile picture of I've had it I’ve had it said 5 months, 1 week ago:

    Based on the quality of the tracks he has designed. The new Catalunya, the new Hockenheim, Circuit of the Americas, Abu Dhabi, etc.

  • Profile picture of Nicholas Sunderland Nicholas Sunderland said 5 months, 1 week ago:

    @joey-zyla I can’t say that Abu Dhabi, the new Hockenheim, or Catalunya are that great. They usually produce boring races, with the occasional good one (like Abu Dhabi this year, which was brilliant). And Tilke didn’t design COTA, that was Tavo Hellmund (before Tilke touched it up a bit).

  • Profile picture of I've had it I’ve had it said 5 months, 1 week ago:

    Haters gonna hate. If Tilke built Monza or Silverstone (I know he didn’t, but as a comparison) you would probably claim to hate those, too. As if Tilke’s name somehow contaminates it. Admit it, you probably loved the Abu Dhabi layout until you discovered *gasp* it’s a Tilke track.

  • Profile picture of Nicholas Sunderland Nicholas Sunderland said 5 months, 1 week ago:

    @joey-zyla One thing to learn about me: I’m not a hater.

    Whenever there’s a new Tilke track, I don’t immediately think “this is crap”. In fact, I quite liked some on first glance, like India (which I still like, it seems like a really tough circuit). I didn’t grow to hate Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, etc. from hearing the name, but from sitting in front of the TV for an hour and a half without there being any action at all. The simple fact is that, other than this year, these circuits have produced processions that really have no appeal for the viewer.

    Some of his tracks are really awesome to drive on (from my gaming experience), like Turkey, India, and a couple of others. I also loved the A1-Ring. But Tilke simply hasn’t produced a classic circuit that will leave a mark on F1 history, like Spa, Suzuka, or Monaco (sadly, the latter has gotten boring itself in recent times). He’s definitely a good designer, otherwise he wouldn’t be the one making these tracks. It’s just that there’s that little bit extra missing in his circuits.

    I hope that that goes far enough in depth for you :P

  • Profile picture of I've had it I’ve had it said 5 months, 1 week ago:

    I think Istanbul Park could leave a mark on F1 history if it hosts a few more races. Even Circuit of the Americas, despite being in Texas, could also possibly leave a mark on F1 history. They both have one thing in common with almost all historic tracks: an extremely challenging corner. Think about it. Monza has the Parabolica, Spa has Eau Rouge, Monaco has the Tunnel and Hairpin, Suzuka has the 130R, Silverstone has Maggotts and Becketts. Istanbul Park has Turn 8 and COTA has the first turn at the top of the hill.

  • Profile picture of Nicholas Sunderland Nicholas Sunderland said 5 months, 1 week ago:

    @joey-zyla That is true, but most of those other tracks have more beyond that one corner. Every corner at Monaco is difficult in sone way, and you have to be constantly on your toes so that you don’t crash. Tracks like Suzuka and Spa are fast and flowy; corners act together if they are one and the same (the esses at Suzuka in particular). Monza is tantalizingly quick, and some corners really test how hard you’re willing to push.

    This is the kind of thing that Tilke tracks are missing. They try to be diverse in their layouts, but they always end up being formulaic. They need some kind of theme, some kind of particularity that makes them special, otherwise they won’t find their way as proper circuits. However, I think COTA is really promising, and it produced some fantastic racing this year.

    As a side note from earlier, Catalunya is not a Tilke circuit :P

  • Profile picture of I've had it I’ve had it said 5 months, 1 week ago:

    Istanbul Park also has other challenging corners, though, notably the first two turns (compared by some to Laguna Seca’s corkscrew) and ‘Faux Rouge’. There are some other ones as well, which is what happens when you have a track with so many elevation changes.

  • Profile picture of I've had it I’ve had it said 5 months, 1 week ago:

    If there were any Tilke circuits I would change it would be Abu Dhabi (proposed layout: http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5758492) and Shanghai (proposed layout: http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5758493). I think Abu Dhabi is already a fantastic track but I feel that removing the chicane (turns 5 and 6) and opening up turns 11-13 would help the ‘flow’ of the track. The final corner is also slightly modified to reward drivers for outbraking their opponents. The first three corners were modified as well as the turns before and after the straightaway to make the track a bit faster.

  • Profile picture of Browny Browny said 5 months, 1 week ago:

    I’ll rate the jobs I think Tikle has done on his recent F1 circuits. Firstly though we must acknowledge that Tilke can’t just move heaven and earth to create another Spa, he is often quite limited in what we can design as often he is designing the only major permanent race track in many countries such as South Korea, Abu Dhabi & India and as such is no doubt briefed to design a “normal” racetrack for the country which means no chance for a unique track like Monza for example.

    Sepang, Malaysia: 6/10
    Pro’s: Blind difficult corners which many are quite flowing, quite good overtaking with many corners designed in a way which leaves the overtaker vulnerable at the next corner
    Con’s: Very difficult to follow through the middle of the lap and the Turn 9 hairpin is horrible

    Sakhir, Bahrain: 4/10
    Pro’s: Nice long straights create overtaking, Turns 9-10 is a very difficult corner
    Con’s: So many slow, boring hairpins, not a single half decent fast corner. Very flat and featureless

    Shanghai, China: 3/10
    Pro’s: For some reason always seems to produce awesome races
    Con’s: Slow, long and horrible corners which are both annoying to drive and make overtaking very difficult

    Istanbul, Turkey: 8/10
    Pro’s: Like Malaysia the overtaking corners often create overtaking in the following corners. And of course Turn 8, surely one of the best corners in the world
    Con’s: Turns 3,4,5 are tight and ruin the flow of the lap

    Valencia, Spain: 2/10
    Pro’s: Last sector has some nice quick corners
    Con’s: So many boring horrible hairpins, and its incredibly difficult to pass on. Surely one of the worst all time circuits

    Yas Marina: 1/10
    Pro’s: Does the awesome motel and the tunnel pitlane exit count?
    Con’s: Barely a half decent corner on it, very difficult to pass on thanks to that stupid chicane. So many incredibly slow boring chicanes, hairpins and tight useless corners.

    Yeongnam: 5/10
    Pro’s: Long back straight at the start of the lap makes for an awesome first lap. Second sector has some really nice flowing corners which are great to drive.
    Con’s: Turns 4,5,6 are slow tight and horrible to drive. The pit entry and exit are probably the worst on the calendar.

    Buddh, India: 8/10
    Pro’s: I love this track, Turn 3 is very difficult and the massively fast chicanes and the long flowing Turns 10-11 are truly fantastic corners.
    Con’s: Proving very difficult to pass which a large part is thanks to the dust and a very slow corner leading onto a straight.

    COTA, USA: 9/10
    Pro’s: I haven’t driven this track so its hard to make a proper judgement but the first half of the lap is incredible with fast corners and lots of elevation changes
    Con’s: I can’t see the point of turns 13-15, really slow when the straight could just go straight from turns 11 to 15. I was a little sceptical about overtaking opportunities but so far this hasn’t been proven.

  • Profile picture of I've had it I’ve had it said 5 months, 1 week ago:

    @browny

    So you hate slow corners and are obsessed with overtaking. Unfortunately, that seems to be the norm among F1 fans these days.

  • Profile picture of I've had it I’ve had it said 5 months, 1 week ago:

    Sepang – 6/10
    Pros – Turn 14 always provides a challenge for drivers, and the first two turns are difficult as well.
    Cons – The majority of Sector Three should be replaced by faster corners or straightaways.

    Sakhir – 5/10
    Pros – Turns 9 and 10 are very difficult.
    Cons – There are too many corners that are almost identical.

    Shanghai – 5/10
    Pros – A load of challenging corners, most notably 1-2-3, 11-12-13, and 16.
    Cons – Doesn’t really have a good flow, slow corners are too close to fast corners.

    Istanbul – 8/10
    Pros – Elevation changes create challenging corners such as 1-2 and 3-4. Turn 8 is one of the best corners ever.
    Cons – None

    Valencia – 6/10
    Pros – The entire lap is fun to drive, due to the variety of corners.
    Cons – Turn 25 is challenging, but maybe a little too challenging. A faster Turn 25 would make Turn 1 more fun to drive and require even more concentration.

    Abu Dhabi – 7/10
    Pros – Turns 8 and 9 require very hard braking, and getting a good exit is key to set up a potential overtaking opportunity on the next straightaway. Turns 15 through 17 are a challenge as well.
    Cons – Too many 90-degree corners.

    Yeongam – 6/10
    Pros – Every single turn is a true test of a driver’s skill, some of my personal favorites are 3, 4-5-6, and 8-9-10.
    Cons – The pit entry and exit are unnecessarily challenging and dangerous.

    New Delhi – 6/10
    Pros – The second turn on the climb up the hill to Turn 3 is fun and difficult, and the entire second sector is one of the most challenging sectors in Formula One.
    Cons – None

    Austin – 7/10
    Pros – Turn 1 is absolutely amazing.
    Cons – Too many of the turns are (admittedly) copied from other tracks.

  • Profile picture of I've had it I’ve had it said 5 months, 1 week ago:

    I also think Tilke’s redesigning of the Hockenheimring was one of the best circuit redesigns ever.

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