De-Tilke-fication of F1 tracks
23rd October 2012, 14:15 at 2:15 pm #213378
James BricklesParticipant23rd October 2012, 18:06 at 6:06 pm #213379
@prisoner-monkeys Thanks. I would’ve liked to extend the top part further as well, but the problem is you can’t go beyond the current boundaries, because of the pesky neighbours.
I like your version of Imola a lot too, as it eliminates all chicanes, but the problem is that the topography doesn’t allow you to do that, because then they would have to go over a ridge. It’s the reason they changed the original track; because cars were getting airborne at the exit of Aque Minerali and the kink where Variante Alta is now. It’s also funny that people actually complained that Variante Bassa was removed, it was pretty popular because the curbhopping was spectacular. My solution: put a fast bus-stop chicane like Variante Bassa where Variante Alta is now.
I don’t see why you would destroy a part of the park just to offset the straight between Tamburello and Villeneuve. I think Tamburello is just fine and Villeneuve can be turned into a kink again where it used to be.
Granted, there would be 3 chicanes then, but it would be a great track nonetheless.
I have some new ones as well:
I always thought this track was perfect in it’s — relative — simplicity, if it weren’t for the tedious turns 4 and 13. So I bypassed those two.
The reason I bothered to improve this track is because in an ideally balanced F1 calendar, there’s one race on the Arabian peninsula. I think Bahrain could be made pretty reasoneably good with some simple changes, but with the civil unrest and the fact that the population is so small, I think Bahrain is not the right place to go. Dubai is the perfect place, but the Dubai Autodrome is hideous beyond repair, as is Abu Dhabi. So Qatar it is.23rd October 2012, 21:59 at 9:59 pm #213380
Some pretty cool ideas in this thread. Reminds me of being younger and drawing over Zandvoort track maps. I liked your take on the track, @necrodethmortem but it is a wee bit short.
Zandvoort, with some ideas I’ve had for a long time; http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5717411
One of the circuits’ main problems currently is the Hugenholzbocht (turn 3). It prevents the organization to properly expand the pitlane and paddock. The current pitbuilding was built in 1997, but would not be able to host an F1 race in space or safety concerns. Rather than diminishing this great turn, (like the circuit has been planning to do for years, plans are made, but funds are unavailable) I’d rather move it, although you’ll have to excuse my poor patience and hence drawing.
Hunserug and Rob Slotemakerbocht stay largely the same, as does Scheivlak. Slightly repositioning the Masters/Marlborobocht to gain some track length and a faster entry into Renault, with Vodafone staying the same. Another problem for Zandvoort is the surrounding water, which is part of a preserved nature project. Don’t think they could easily move that, but never was too fond of the Audi-S, so made it more like the Hugenholz. Lengthened the straight, made a tighter Kumhobocht, to gain an entry to Bosuit (does anyone ever call it Arie Luyendijk bocht?) which is more like the old school track.
I also drew something that would probably end up being the actual pitlane. I used the width of the paddock behind the current pitbuilding to make an estimate of how much space would be needed in sacrificing the current Hugenholz and the pit-entry based on the fact the Marshal’s clubhouse used to be around there, but had to move (12 years ago) to make room for the pit-entry.
You might note some cynicism in this post, but there have been plans to upgrade the circuit, the pitlane and infrastructure for nearly a decade now and barely anything has happened. The province also suggested to tear down Zandvoort and build a track more north in the province. With the Marlboro funding gone, Zandvoort has hit some serious decline..23rd October 2012, 22:29 at 10:29 pm #213381
As for Shanghai International Circuit, I like the track, but I find it suffers a lot from Tilke’s stop and go type of straight/corner combinations.
Not necessarily less fast, I’ve reduced the straight, as most cars just hit the limiter there. I’ve given it a more round feel, as I feel it would speed things up a bit.
I happen to like Fuji, but not as much as I liked to drive around on the old Fuji in Gran Turismo 4. I tried to give it a more natural look and I think it’d have a lot more of its original character this way (as with Zandvoort, if you look through some of the rough edges in my corner-drawing skillz). http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=571744924th October 2012, 7:39 at 7:39 am #213382
Yas Marina Circuit
The Abu Dhabi GP circuit must be one of the worst lay-outs of the Tilkedromes: there is no flow in this circuit, so I thought I would give it a go.
The first sector remained the same: I think the first corner is fine the way it is, and the three fast corners that follow are great fun. I very much dislike the Mickey-Mouse section (turns 5, 6 and 7), so I changed that. Turn 5 has become a sharp left hander, that opens up into the long straight.
After that straight, turns 8 and 9 are not that bad, but I chose to make both of them a bit less sharp. This would reduce the amount of overtakes there, but hey, overtakes aren’t everything, right? Turn 10 has become a bit sharper, mainly because of the lay-out of turn 9.
Then the part that suffered most changes: turns 11-14. Turn 11, 12 and 13 have been replaced by a fast left hander (reminds me of 130R), followed by a hairpin-like turn 14. After that, not a lot has changed, mostly because of the fact that the hotel must be included in the lay-out. Turns 15 and 16 have been replaced by one long corner (to keep the rhythm) and turn 20 has become less tight.
It’s a real challenge to tackle the Yas circuit, because the part that you want to change most (the final sector) is pretty much rigid because of that hotel. Still I think this circuit would be an improvement over the current lay-out.24th October 2012, 7:45 at 7:45 am #213383
@turini I don’t think you improved Hockenheim much, all you have done is remove the opportunity to overtake in the hairpin. Frankly, I don’t think it’s possible to improve Hockenheim without the forest section. Tilke did a pretty good job, he is not the one to blame here.
@npf1 Yes, my Zandvoort is short, but I don’t see a problem in that, it’s 4 km long, so it complies to the regulations. I also don’t see the need to expand the pits, is it really that bad that VIPs would have to walk 100 m further to reach the buffets? And if you don’t turn the Audi S into a fast kink, I don’t see why you would tighten Kumho.
- The downhill after turn 1 has been sped up, bypassing the first ‘S’ and loosening the rest, before being surprised by the tighter second ‘S’. It’s going to take a lot of skills and manhandling to get a car stopped facing the right way here.
- The hairpin before the straight is now a long double apex corner, similar to Buddh, sticking to the spirit of the track.
- The stadium section is useless, so it is bypassed, conveniently making the approach to the Istanbul section faster. The grandstands on the inside of Istanbul will provide great viewing: facing Northeast you have the hairpin, where all the overtaking will be; facing South and Southeast you have the fast Istanbul and you also get to see the cars tumble down the hill after turn 1. So, again, no need for the Hockenheim stadium.
- The part after Istanbul is now faster, making it more important to get Istanbul right. Also, the corner before the pit straight is no longer a useless hairpin.
I think this version is much more balls-out than the original, as a USGP should be. The fast sections also encourage the teams to run lower downforce levels, which is a welcome change from the usual Tilkedomes.
Instead of turning Silverstone into a thirteen-in-a-dozen cornerfest, I would’ve gone back to it’s roots: a DIY airfield, breathing the spirit of the typically British guy-in-a-shed engineering.
- The pits have been moved to the infield. The pit straight uses the extra-wide landing strip, which should make for interesting starts.
- Continuing on the wide landing strips, we have two fast left-handers.
- I always thought Brooklands and Luffield sucked the flow out of the circuit, so I changed that part completely. Brooklands is now a hairpin, Priory is taken the other way around and Luffield is much faster.
- Finally, Stowe is returned to it’s original state and Club is now a pretty quick right-hander coming onto the wide landing strip.24th October 2012, 7:58 at 7:58 am #213384
I had a go at the Hungaroring.
I actually already like this track for its elevation change but it needs more passing oppurtunities. I like the first sector so I left that as is. Turn 4 needs to be faster and turn 5 tighter to allow for passes at the end of the straight. I think this also makes turn 4 even more spectacular. I left the next part the same up until just after turn 10. Here I would cut out turn 10 and link it straight to turn 12. This creates another passing oppurtunity. Turn 13 is so slow and it dosent allow cars to get a better run on the car in front going into turn 1 so I would create a late 90 degree apex.
I also did another one where I cut out turn 5 and connect 4 to 6 with a wide sweeper. In this version I also cut out turn 12 and would go straight ahead to turn 13 with a 90 degree left hander. With the elevation change here this would make for a spectacular last corner.
This circuit has a lot of potential to make some minor changes to improve the layout and the racing around some of the slower parts.24th October 2012, 8:06 at 8:06 am #213385
I actually quite like what @turini has done with Hockenheim – especially the way he’s turned the Mercedes Arena into a fast chicane like the one in Melbourne, but I think his Kurz Kehre and Parabolika could be improved a little.
Here’s a re-imagining of the Hungaroring, which has always been something of a bogey for me – ever since I discovered the GMaps Pedometer, I’ve been trying to improve it … and I’ve never been happy with the result. This is probably one of my better ones, but I’m still not 100% on it:
The first turn is a mirror of its current self, with a genlte corner feeding into a sharp one. Turn 3 has been given a greater radius to let the cars build up speed into Turn 4 – which is probably the part I’m unhappy with – while I’ve kept the awesome Turn 5 as is. Turn 6 has been sharpened for overtaking, while the chicane has been opened up. The next sequence is loosely inspired by the section is replaced, designed to increase speeds onto the bottom straight. The double U-bend has been replaced with a single ninety-degree right-hander at the top of a short, sharp climb a la COTA.24th October 2012, 8:09 at 8:09 am #213386
And here’s the circuit without the long Turn 3 (for some reason, I can’t edit my last post).
I think that looks much better.24th October 2012, 8:35 at 8:35 am #213387
@Prisoner Monkeys – I like your version of turn 5 better than mine. I like what you did to the middle sector too but realistically the changes here would be too expensive. The idea for the last turn is good too but I think it would ruin one of the best spectator points in F1 (due to required run off areas). In my second version I made the apex a bit earlier so that there is some space for run off. Other wise my first version where you could make use of the open grass area in the last sector is also an option.24th October 2012, 9:32 at 9:32 am #213388
Two variations on Istanbul, inspired by @necrodethmortem‘s comments:
The first one extends Turn 2 to bypass Turns 3 and 4. Turn 11 is also opened up to link with Turn 13.
The second layout goes straight ahead at Turn 3, connecting up to Turn 8 to make the corner all the more daunting. Turn 9 is sharper, to link up with Turn 7, which then allows for a parabolic corner that goes all the way to Turn 13.24th October 2012, 10:21 at 10:21 am #213389
Buddh International Circuit.
With this one, I went a little bit creative. The first sector is largely similar but for turn 2 being tighter and more challenging, turn 3 is a longer radius corner but hopefully, not too slow. A long straight into a less tighter turn 4, and then it gets unusual.
Once the track exits turn 4, it climbs over a bridge and ends up at the small straight to what would have been the final corner, but the wrong direction. It’s a pretty long straight, so hopefully another chance to overtake into the next corner. It’s a double apexed, left-handed corner that is also pretty fast. It eventually rejoins the wrong way on what turn 13 used to be. It just follows the track, bypasses the Massa chicane for run-off purposes for the ex-turn-13.
The final complex starts off with a left kink into a long right, and then a small left kink (underneath the bridge) and a final left onto the pit straight. It’s not the best final sector but I needed to accommodate for the figure of 8 ;)24th October 2012, 11:23 at 11:23 am #213390
Turns 1-3 have been replace by a very fast right hand corner. This should stimulate overtaking into the original circuit’s turn 4. Turns 6 and 7 have become a double right corner, followed by a long left, that merges with the circuit at turn 10. The long straight that follows leads into a tighter turn 11, that should increase the amounts of overtakes there. Turn 14 is less tight, followed by the fourth straight. Turn 15 has effectively become turn 1, 2 and 3: a tight kink, and then a chicane-like exit.24th October 2012, 13:21 at 1:21 pm #213391
Fuji, based on a combination of new and old features. It probably isn’t at all feasible any more, but oh well. It initially uses the fast first corer from when the circuit first appeared, giving it a unique feature in F1- a properly fast, long sweeper as a first corner. The hairpin then makes an appearance afterwards, in a similar style to the current first corner. As the middle sector of the current layout is classic and tricky, I wanted to include this, and at a similar stage, so the next stage is getting the track back in that direction, so a sweeping corner leads to a sharp 90. This isn’t so much to be interesting, but to control the speed of the cars. Alternatively, it wouldn’t be the end of the world if this was too dull and made into a single long turn. Then it runs on the existing section, and develops into something very similar to the 90′s version on the track. This avoids a slow and tedious final sector.24th October 2012, 13:25 at 1:25 pm #213392
“As the middle sector of the current layout is classic and tricky, I wanted to include this, and at a similar stage”
This should be “with a similar entrance speed.”
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