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F1 discussion

Three Car Teams

This topic contains 17 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Oscar Becker Oscar Becker 3 years, 7 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)
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  • #129390
    Profile photo of Felipe Bomeny
    Felipe Bomeny
    Participant

    I was thinking about one of di Montezemolo’s proposals: the three car team. While I doubt that it really will occur in Formula One, as it really is just a big “what if”, it’s still a fun idea to play with because the third driver would either be a rookie or pay driver in most scenarios. This is how I think a 2011 grid would look like:

    1. Vettel

    2. Webber

    3. Ricciardo

    4. Hamilton

    5. Button

    6. Turvey

    7. Alonso

    8. Massa

    9. Bianchi

    10. Rosberg

    11. Schumacher

    12. Hülkenberg

    14. Heidfeld

    15. Petrov

    16. Grosjean

    15. Barrichello

    16. Maldonado

    17. Bottas

    18. Sutil

    19. Di Resta

    20. Ebrahim

    21. Kobayashi

    22. Pérez

    23. Fisichella

    24. Buemi

    25. Alguersuari

    26. Vergne

    27. Kovalainen

    28. Trulli

    29. Razia

    30. Liuzzi

    31. Karthikeyan

    32. Mun

    33. Glock

    34. D’Ambrosio

    35. Wickens

    #168790
    Profile photo of Slr
    Slr
    Participant

    Three cars teams would probably equal less teams on the grid, I’ll just go with 8 teams.

    Red Bull:

    1.Vettel

    2.Webber

    3.Buemi

    McLaren:

    4.Hamilton

    5.Button

    6.Kobayashi

    Ferrari:

    7.Alonso

    8.Massa

    9.Kubica/Fisichella

    Mercedes:

    10.Schumacher

    11.Rosberg

    12.Heidfeld

    Renault:

    14.Kovalainen

    15.Petrov

    16.Senna

    Williams:

    17.Barrichello

    18.Hulkenberg

    19.Maldonado

    Force India:

    20.Sutil

    21.Liuzzi

    22.Di Resta

    Sauber:

    23.Glock

    24.Trulli

    25.Perez

    #168791
    Profile photo of Icthyes
    Icthyes
    Participant

    Someone suggested on here a while ago that 3-car teams could work by the smaller teams “renting out” one of their grid positions. If it was contingent on the third car not scoring points and it if was for good money and technical support, I wouldn’t be against it. I’ve gone for something a bit different and imagined 3-car teams came in last year instead.

    Red Bull

    1: Vettel

    2: Webber

    24: Ricciardo

    McLaren

    3: Hamilton

    4: Button

    25: Paffett

    Ferrari

    5: Alonso

    6: Massa

    26: Schumacher

    Mercedes

    7: Rosberg

    8: Heidfeld

    27: di Resta

    Renault

    9: Kubica (replaced by Senna)

    10: Petrov

    Williams

    11: Barrichello

    12: Maldonado

    Force India

    14: Sutil

    15: Liuzzi

    Sauber

    16: Kobayashi

    17: Perez

    Toro Rosso

    18: Buemi

    19: Alguersuari

    Lotus

    20: Kovalainen

    21: Chandhok

    HRT

    22: Klien

    Virgin

    23: Glock

    - Schumacher joins Ferrari after aborted comeback in 2009

    – Heidfeld joins Mercedes in 2009, di Resta is in his second season

    – With the failure of USF1, the two extra slots were re-apportioned. Those continued after the failure of any new team to gain entry for 2010

    – Lotus had previously rented one of their slots out to Renault, but this ended with the naming rights dispute. With Trulli retired, they brought in Chandhok

    – Senna started for HRT in 2010 but was replaced by Klien three times

    #168792
    Profile photo of Fixy
    Fixy
    Participant

    1. Vettel

    2. Webber

    3. Ricciardo

    4. Hamilton

    5. Button

    6. Paffett

    7. Alonso

    8. Massa

    9. Bianchi

    10. Rosberg

    11. Schumacher

    12. Di Resta

    14. Senna

    15. Petrov

    16. Grosjean

    15. Barrichello

    16. Maldonado

    17. Bottas

    18. Sutil

    19. Liuzzi

    20. Hulkenberg

    21. Kobayashi

    22. Pérez

    23. Heidfeld

    24. Buemi

    25. Alguersuari

    26. Vergne

    27. Kovalainen

    28. Trulli

    29. Valsecchi

    30. Chandhok

    31. Karthikeyan

    32. Klien

    33. Glock

    34. D’Ambrosio

    35. Wickens

    #168793
    Profile photo of australian
    australian
    Participant

    i like it

    #168794
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    So … you basically just put all the test drivers in the third cars?

    #168795
    Profile photo of Icthyes
    Icthyes
    Participant

    They’re test drivers for a reason. That reason partly being because with the testing ban, a test driver is likely to also be your third driver.

    #168796
    Profile photo of Icthyes
    Icthyes
    Participant

    Apologies for double post.

    Note that most of us have done something a little different: di Resta at Mercedes, Chandhok at HRT

    #168797
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    They’re test drivers for a reason. That reason partly being because with the testing ban, a test driver is likely to also be your third driver.

    That’s true – but if three-car teams were permitted, do you really think the likes of Ferrari and McLaren would settle for running their test drivers? Do you genuinely believe Red bull would opt for Riccirado when just about every driver on the grid would kill to race for them?

    #168798
    Profile photo of Ned Flanders
    Ned Flanders
    Participant

    OK, I’ll have a go. I’m going to assume that the rule is coming in for next season, that the added competition will mean that Virgin and HRT go out of business, and that only 6 teams will choose to run a third driver. That leaves a 26 car grid

    RED BULL:

    1. Vettel

    2. Webber

    3. Kobayashi (to try and shift a few more cans in Japan)

    MCLAREN

    1. Hamilton

    2. Button

    3. Heidfeld (finally gets his chance 10 years after the infamous snub)

    FERRARI

    1. Alonso

    2. Massa

    3. Binachi

    MERCEDES

    1. Rosberg

    2. Raikkonen

    3. Barrichello (making a return to his old team to see out his career)

    RENAULT

    1. Kubica

    2. Petrov

    3. Senna

    SAUBER

    1. Perez

    2. Gutierrez (2012’s probably a bit too early for him, but meh)

    TORO ROSSO

    1. Vergne

    2. Ricciardo

    3. Alguersuari (Red Bull money funds a third seat to keep underperforming JA on)

    FORCE INDIA

    1. Di Resta

    2. Hulkenberg

    WILLIAMS

    1. Schumacher (I’m thinking outside the box here!)

    2. Maldonado

    LOTUS

    1. Kovalainen

    2. Texeira

    I’m with PM, I think if third drivers were available teams would be a bit more adventurous and choose the best drivers available. Also, I am by no means saying that this is what I’d think would happen

    #168799
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    I do agree with you that Ricciardo is more likely to wind up in a Toro Rosso than a Red Bull. There’s no way Red Bull would risk him based on his practice times in Abu Dhabi alone.

    #168800
    Profile photo of Fixy
    Fixy
    Participant

    @Prisoner Monkeys – You have to also take into account that three championship contenders in the same team would be difficult to manage, and that young driver development schemes are done exactly to have a third driver together with two experienced ones. I also would put Kubica in another team, but as this is 2011 he isn’t racing. I’ll do it again, with only one test driver promoted to race seat in the same team.

    Red Bull Racing-Renault

    1. Sebastian Vettel

    2. Mark Webber

    3. Kimi Raikkonen (stand-in for Robert Kubica) (2010 – WRC)

    Vodafone McLaren-Mercedes

    4. Lewis Hamilton

    5. Jenson Button

    6. Gary Paffett (2010 – Test Driver)

    Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro

    7. Fernando Alonso

    8. Felipe Massa

    9. Nico Rosberg (2010 – Mercedes)

    Mercedes GP Petronas F1 Team

    10. Michael Schumacher

    11. Nico Hulkenberg (2010 – Williams)

    12. Paul Di Resta (2010 – DTM)

    Lotus Renault GP

    14. Vitaly Petrov

    15. Bruno Senna (2010 – HRT)

    16. Romain Grosjean (2010 – GP2)

    AT&T Williams-Cosworth

    15. Rubens Barrichello

    16. Pastor Maldonado (2010 – GP2)

    17. Nick Heidfeld (2010 – Sauber)

    Force India F1 Team-Mercedes

    18. Adrian Sutil

    19. Vitantonio Liuzzi

    20. Karun Chandhok (2010 – HRT)

    Sauber F1 Team-Ferrari

    21. Kamui Kobayashi

    22. Sergio Pérez (2010 – GP2)

    23. Jules Bianchi (2010 – GP2)

    Scuderia Toro Rosso-Ferrari

    24. Sebastien Buemi

    25. Jaime Alguersuari

    26. Daniel Ricciardo (2010 – Formula Renault 3.5)

    Team Lotus-Renault

    27. Heikki Kovalainen

    28. Jarno Trulli

    29. Luiz Razia (2010 – GP2)

    Hispania Racing F1 Team-Cosworth

    30. Narain Karthikeyan (2010 – Superleague Formula)

    31. Sakon Yamamoto

    32. Christian Klien

    Marussia Virgin Racing-Cosworth

    33. Timo Glock

    34. Lucas Di Grassi

    35. Jerome D’Ambrosio (2010 – GP2)

    #168801
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    You have to also take into account that three championship contenders in the same team would be difficult to manage

    That’s true – but if one championship-worthy team has three drivers, then all teams need three because they’ll need three to stand a chance of picking up the WCC crown.

    #168802
    Profile photo of Icthyes
    Icthyes
    Participant

    It’s not so far-fetched as you might think PM. Let’s take Red Bull. Alonso is committed to Ferrari. Massa is, depending on opinion, either not good enough or too close to Ferrari to leave. Hamilton wouldn’t leave McLaren unless they weren’t competing consistently. Button has been vocal about team favouritism so you’d think he’d have second thoughts about going to Red Bull. How many top drivers are there left after that? Rosberg has only had a year at Mercedes, jumping ship would have looked bad for him. Kubica is injured but was committed to the Renault project anyway.

    Sure, it may have made more sense to us to put even Glock in there before Ricciardo. But Red Bull are sponsoring him for a reason: they believe he could be another Hamilton or Rosberg. Hamilton almost went to Renault or Williams but Ron Dennis gave him the McLaren seat – Red Bull wouldn’t want to risk the same. So why wouldn’t he end up at Toro Rosso first? Since the end of the customer team rules, STR hasn’t exactly been a powerhouse and as we’ve seen with Button, a world champion can appear average in a bad car.

    #168803
    Profile photo of Klon
    Klon
    Participant

    Well, here’s a possible grid:

    Red Bull Racing-Renault

    1. Sebastian Vettel

    2. Mark Webber

    3. Jaime Alguersuari

    Vodafone McLaren-Mercedes

    4. Lewis Hamilton

    5. Jenson Button

    6. Gary Paffett

    Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro

    7. Fernando Alonso

    8. Felipe Massa

    9. Valentino Rossi/Giancarlo Fisichella

    Mercedes GP Petronas F1 Team

    10. Michael Schumacher

    11. Nico Rosberg

    12. Bruno Spengler

    Lotus Renault GP

    14. Nick Heidfeld/Robert Kubica

    15. Vitaly Petrov

    16. Bruno Senna

    AT&T Williams-Cosworth

    15. Rubens Barrichello

    16. Pastor Maldonado

    17. Valtteri Bottas

    Force India F1 Team-Mercedes

    18. Adrian Sutil

    19. Paul Di Resta

    20. Nico Hülkenberg

    Sauber F1 Team-Ferrari

    21. Kamui Kobayashi

    22. Sergio Pérez

    23. Jules Bianchi

    Scuderia Toro Rosso-Ferrari

    24. Sebastien Buemi

    25. Daniel Ricciardo

    26. Jean-Eric Vergne

    Team Lotus-Renault

    27. Heikki Kovalainen

    28. Jarno Trulli

    29. Karun Chandhok

    Hispania Racing F1 Team-Cosworth

    30. Narain Karthikeyan

    31. Vitantonio Liuzzi

    32. Plamen Kralev

    Marussia Virgin Racing-Cosworth

    33. Timo Glock

    34. Jerome D’Ambrosio

    35. Sakon Yamamoto

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