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F1 discussion

Time penalties for European GP

This topic contains 13 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Steph90 Steph90 3 years, 10 months ago.

Viewing 14 posts - 1 through 14 (of 14 total)
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  • #127793
    Avatar of thespuditron
    thespuditron
    Member

    I’ve just been looking at the penalties available to the stewarts during a grand prix weekend.

    http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8683/fia.html

    16.3 The stewards may impose any one of three penalties on any driver involved in an Incident:

    a) A drive-through penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane and re-join the race without stopping;

    b) A ten second time penalty. The driver must enter the pit lane, stop at his pit for at least ten seconds and then re-join the race.

    c) a drop of any number of grid positions at the driver’s next Event.

    No mention of a “5 second” penalty.

    Did they just pull that one out of the sky??

    #141995
    Avatar of dsob
    dsob
    Participant

    Well, they certainly pulled it out of somewhere, but I’m not certain “sky” is the correct location.

    And considering the time spread at the checker, a 5 second penalty was tantamount to a slap on the wrist with teacher’s ruler.

    Actually, I’m not certain there was an actual rule infraction. Consider: 8 drivers committing the exact same infraction at the exact same instance. Please. I think it more likely that the system malfunctioned. (That, incidently, could explain the light ‘penalty’. FiA’s way of not admitting fault in their system, but doing nothing to really change the race outcome substantially.)

    #141996
    Avatar of Ratboy
    Ratboy
    Keymaster

    I think its part of there “wheel of fortune” stle penalty awardance, where to deceide the time penalty the guest driver steward just throws a dart at a dartboard and thats the time penalty they award…

    I thought post race penaltys were meant to be 30 seconds?

    #141997
    Avatar of US_Peter
    US_Peter
    Participant

    Well when they gave Schumacher his 20 second penalty post-race Monaco we were led to believe that that was the only option available to the stewards. If that penalty had been applied here we’d have seen Kobayashi finish 4th!

    #141998
    Avatar of thespuditron
    thespuditron
    Member

    Keith used this video before on one of his articles but kinda fits this situation aswell.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBhrpD1x8zo

    #141999
    Avatar of SoLiDG
    SoLiDG
    Participant

    I think it was done because the drivers where so far into the lap it was difficult to make the delta time!

    Maybe the F1.com site will soon post some good video’s (probably not)

    #142000
    Avatar of Red Andy
    Red Andy
    Participant

    I think it was done because the drivers where so far into the lap it was difficult to make the delta time!

    I have heard this said a few times as if it exonerates the drivers involved. But, I believe each driver is given an individual delta time, so it would make sense that this time was based on their current position on the track (as those of you who watched the BBC’s pre-race show will know, the cars’ positions can be determined to an accuracy of somewhat less than a metre). So if a driver was quite close to the end of a sector when the SC was deployed, they would obviously be expected to have a faster delta time than someone who had just started a sector.

    If that’s the case then there’s no real escaping the fact that nine drivers were illegally speeding under the safety car, presumably knowingly. So hitting them with a five-second penalty each is a complete joke, especially since it actually disadvantaged only two drivers, who were presumably no more guilty than any of the others.

    #142001
    Avatar of dsob
    dsob
    Participant

    Delta times…..onboard telemetry…….Ground Control to Major Tom ….

    Seriously, I reiterate my earlier postulation…Race Control’s system either malfunctioned or was overloaded and gave incorrect or inconclusive data…can you REALLY see 8 drivers committing the same infraction at the same time ? Really?

    I mean, well, yes, it does happen frequently……………..NOT !!!

    So, if that was the conclusion of the Stewards, might they not have issued a minor penalty that really didn’t change much important(the only gain in points was for Alonso, one position, 9th to 8th), and certainly didn’t change the podium ? Bit of a face-saver, eh ? After thay announced drivers under investigation … and when last were EIGHT drivers under investigation at the same time???….they had to do something. And methinks Ferrari was pushing, screaming and kicking for the investigation, so FiA either found inconclusive evidence in the system telemetry, or did it to shut Ferrari up while not really hurting the race result. Politics. Yuk!

    Amd Glock’s penalty was separate from this, for a different reason, that’s why he got a different penalty. Which he roundly deserved!

    #142002
    Avatar of Journeyer
    Journeyer
    Participant

    The Schumacher incident revealed that the ISC (Art. 151 I think) points out that the stewards can give a time penalty of their choosing depending on the gravity of the situation. They only found out AFTER MSC had been penalized, and fans pointed out that this clause could’ve been used on Schumi instead.

    #142003
    Avatar of RandomChimp
    RandomChimp
    Member

    Oh dear, even the stewards don’t know the rules?!

    #142004
    Avatar of Journeyer
    Journeyer
    Participant

    Well, yes. Especially after I read this from Alianora La Canta, our resident F1 rules expert at Sidepodcast.

    http://formula1home.com.au/forum/weblog_entry.php?e=986

    Apparently, this infringement is NOT covered by that clause in the ISC.

    So… yes.

    #142005
    Avatar of Scribe
    Scribe
    Participant

    Well from nowhere this penalty appears to have come but seeing as the Stewards used it you’d have to consider how they were able to and why the FIA hasn’t protested it.

    Well remember the absolute uproar caused by Schumachers overly harsh Monaco penalty? An the WMSC have just met, so maybe there’s a new penalty been invented, possibly more flexible post race time adds. Seems like progress if you ask me.

    #142006
    Avatar of BasCB
    BasCB
    Participant

    Thanks for mentioning the ISC there Journeyer. I also thought maybe the FIA had a chat with the Stewards after Monaco and instructed them, that in some cases they would not have to keep to the 3 options in the Sporting regulations but could apply a penalty in the broader scope of the ISC.

    But from your second post i am wondering, weather that is possible. Is there anything explicitly stated in the ISC (limiting when to use them or define the jurisdiction of the SR)?

    And Alianora La Canta is right about the part where nobody thought it nessicary to inform the fans (the teams might have been informed descreetly) about a change in views on this by the FIA.

    #142007
    Avatar of Steph90
    Steph90
    Member

    I’m with Red Andy on this one. I don’t think the system malfunctioning would have resulted in penalities for them. They deploy SC and have had chaos before so a malfunction (although possible) should be well prepared for. They also can’t issue penalities without evidence or if they do, they’ll never stand up when the teams appeal.

    I do think Ferrari were after blood though but if an offence wasn’t commited they wouldn’t have got punished. Maybe I’m naive…

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