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Top 10 Drivers of the 21st Century – 2013 Edition

This topic contains 42 replies, has 29 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Iestyn Davies Iestyn Davies 8 months, 3 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 43 total)
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  • #134005
    Avatar of Journeyer
    Journeyer
    Participant

    For the last three years, I’ve been asking the community their top 10 F1 drivers of the 21st century to date. Here were the results from previous years, with my scoring based on the current points system (25 points for a 1st, down to 1 point for 10th).

    2010
    1. M Schumacher – 621 (20 1st’s)
    2. Alonso – 519 (6 1st’s)
    3. Hamilton – 402 (2 1st’s)
    4. Raikkonen – 310
    5. Vettel – 196
    6. Hakkinen – 161
    7. Montoya – 160
    8. Button – 110
    9. Massa – 93
    10. Kubica – 80
    11. Barrichello – 63
    12. Webber – 53
    13. Coulthard – 26
    14. Rosberg – 18
    15. Heidfeld – 8
    16. Fisichella – 3
    17. Trulli – 2
    18. Villeneuve – 1
    19. Kobayashi – 1
    20. R Schumacher – 1

    2011
    1. M Schumacher – 871 (31 1st’s)
    2. Alonso – 674 (5 1st’s)
    3. Vettel – 502
    4. Raikkonen – 426
    5. Hamilton – 379
    6. Button – 266
    7. Hakkinen – 177 (1 1st)
    8. Montoya – 114
    9. Kubica – 90
    10. Massa – 88
    11. Barrichello – 43
    12. Coulthard – 40
    13. Webber – 33
    14. R Schumacher – 12
    15. Rosberg – 11
    16. Heidfeld – 8
    17. Fisichella – 1
    18. Villeneuve – 1
    19. Glock – 1

    2012
    1. M Schumacher – 980 (33 1st’s)
    2. Alonso – 764 (7 1st’s)
    3. Vettel – 652 (2 1st’s)
    4. Raikkonen – 515
    5. Hamilton – 499 (1 1st)
    6. Button – 272
    7. Hakkinen – 166
    8. Massa – 141
    9. Montoya – 133
    10. Barrichello – 73
    11. Kubica – 56
    12. Webber – 43
    13. Coulthard – 24
    14. Heidfeld – 10
    15. Fisichella – 9
    16. Rosberg – 2
    17. Villeneuve – 1
    18. Trulli – 1
    19. Kovalainen – 1
    20. R Schumacher – 1

    After the 2013 season, who do you rank as the greatest drivers of the century? For those who voted before, did your assessment change? Remember, assess them based on their performance THIS CENTURY AS A WHOLE, not just based on their performance this season.

    Here’s my 2013 list. It’s totally unchanged from my 2012 list (because other than Seb, no one really stepped up their game this season).
    1. Michael Schumacher
    2. Sebastian Vettel
    3. Fernando Alonso
    4. Lewis Hamilton
    5. Kimi Raikkonen
    6. Jenson Button
    7. Mika Hakkinen
    8. Felipe Massa
    9. Rubens Barrichello
    10. Mark Webber

    #246544
    Avatar of andae23
    andae23
    Participant

    1. Michael Schumacher
    2. Sebastian Vettel
    3. Fernando Alonso
    4. Lewis Hamilton
    5. Kimi Räikkönnen
    6. Felipe Massa
    7. Mika Häkkinen
    8. David Coulthard
    9. Robert Kubica
    10. Nico Rosberg

    Vettel has passed Alonso and Rosberg has taken tenth from Button

    #246545
    Avatar of Max Jacobson
    Max Jacobson
    Participant

    1. Michael Schumacher
    2. Sebastian Vettel
    3. Fernando Alonso
    4. Lewis Hamilton
    5. Kimi Räikkönen
    6. Mika Häkkinen
    7. Felipe Massa
    8. Nico Rosberg
    9. Jenson Button
    10. David Coulthard

    #246547
    Avatar of ed24f1
    ed24f1
    Participant

    1. M Schumacher
    2. F Alonso
    3. S Vettel
    4. K Raikkonen
    5. L Hamilton
    6. J Button
    7. F Massa
    8. M Hakkinen
    9. R Barrichello
    10. JP Montoya

    #246548
    Avatar of Deej92
    Deej92
    Participant

    1. M. Schumacher
    2. Vettel
    3. Alonso
    4. Hamilton
    5. Raikkonen
    6. Button
    7. Massa
    8. Hakkinen
    9. Barrichello
    10. Coulthard

    #246549
    Avatar of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    1. M Schumacher
    2. F Alonso
    3. S Vettel
    4. L Hamilton
    5. K Raikkonen
    6. F Massa
    7. JP Montoya
    8. N Rosberg
    9. J Button
    10. M Webber

    #246550
    Avatar of Ritvik Vinodkumar
    Ritvik Vinodkumar
    Participant

    1. Vettel
    2. Schumacher
    3. Alonso
    4. Hamilton
    5. Raikonnen
    6. Button
    7. Montoya
    8. Hakkinen
    9. Kubica
    10. Massa

    #246551
    Avatar of Iestyn Davies
    Iestyn Davies
    Participant

    Here’s my take on it as a series from 2000-2013, with the weighted score I used to work it out:
    1. Alonso 18
    2. Schumacher 16 (impressive as his last score is in 2006)
    3. Raikkonen 16
    4. Vettel 14
    5. Hamilton 12
    6. Montoya 9 (from 2001-2005)
    7. Button 9
    8. Barrichello 6
    9. Massa 4
    10. Hakkinen 3 (from only 2000-2001)

    11= Coulthard, R. Schumacher, Webber, Kubica, Rosberg 2
    12= Villeneuve, Trulli, Heidfeld 1

    Sideshow: 2010s
    Vettel 11
    Alonso 7
    Hamilton 7
    Raikkonen 3
    Button 2
    Rosberg 2
    Webber 1
    Kubica 1

    This tells me that Schumi and Vettel are basically at the same level (extrapolating their scores across the whole 14 year period), while a 2-1-1 distribution of championships for Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton would not be unfair for the 2010s. I have my top 7 of the century as deserving WDCs, with 8-10 as a WDC runner-up. Perhaps someone more cynical than I would say only the top 5, who have made double figures, are worthy of being WDCs!

    But for me, Alonso edges it on consistency, greatly aided by his career being (2001-). Same with Raikkonen, they were made for this comparison. Schumi was only available for half of it, else he would have walked it. Same with Vettel, with Hamilton in 3rd. Of course, having the best car usually does help them establish this gap over Alonso and Raikkonen (not always in top machinery, but generally as long as half of the time available). I originally wrote Schumi down in 1st, assuming it was a done deal, but now my data analysis is saying I should be evaluating whether Raikkonen deserves 2nd over Schumi! But I’m not surprised at all to see Schumi as the overall 1st place pick.

    Interesting to note how my list compares with the general list (that’s the power of the crowd for you!), with the only notable absentee being Fisichella, whose rating seemingly declines as memories of his career fade. Perhaps being thrashed by Alonso didn’t help his cause, but he was a good driver that struggled to get a break, really until it was too late. It could also be said that his peak was the 97-98 period, thus pre-dating this series. Plus, all the rated drivers were also race winners in the period, except Villeneuve and Heidfeld (who was particularly unlucky to get how many 2nd places?), with Villeneuve not really being in race-winning equipment during the period.

    #246552
    Avatar of Journeyer
    Journeyer
    Participant

    @fastiesty Your weights are very interesting! Can you tell me more about them (i.e. how each driver scores in your system)?

    Also, regarding Fisi, he actually went up to 15th last year (from 17th and 16th the past two years). But I think he will lose out to drivers now in the ascendant (most notably Rosberg).

    #246553
    Avatar of Iestyn Davies
    Iestyn Davies
    Participant

    @journeyer It was actually looking at your assortment of the current points system to the votes that made me think to do it like that, instead of purely by instinct. As I have previously rated each season of F1 by what amounts to a “deserving top 3″ of each season, I decided to use this and allocate 3, 2 or 1 point(s) to each winner, runner up and third place finisher. It gave me a different winner than I expected overall, but that’s down to my points method rewarding consistency in the period over peak attainment (which is why Schumi is always rated as the best), usually measured in WDCs/outright pace, as the main point of this tally is the series as a whole, combined with performance. But, no one remembers who always finished second.. ask Nick Heidfeld.

    There is still some subjective bias in my method, as I do not simply allocate the points by the final driver standings from each year. I feel this method can give a slightly better representation of each driver’s achievement than simply using their results, where reliability can play a part (although it could equally be said that the driver can cause some of these very issues). So comparing these results to the actual final standings of each year and what that would give could be interesting, too, but I feel it would not be too far away in any case.

    Also, I think it is interesting in that when picking, usually after about 7 or 8 picks (the usual limit of your working memory), it becomes very hard to pick who should fill the final places, as it gets more and more complex to pick who should be there above the others! To be accurate here requires a lot of data crunching, as the top guys are usually pretty clear cut choices (and it’s only in what order to place them), and a lot of drivers’ relative performance have to be considered over the lengthy time span. Hakkinen in 10th was the one that surprised me a little, as you would naturally think that someone like Webber (present in the whole period since Hakkinen’s 2 year stint) would have surpassed him. But I was still glad to include him, relieved almost! Why did I doubt the flying Finn! Perhaps Rosberg will indeed surpass these two guys in 2014 if the Mercedes package gives him a fighting WDC chance.. the latest flying half-Finn!

    Thinking further, we could give an assessment of each rules era in the period too:

    2000-2005 (V10 era)
    2006-2008 (V8 era)
    2009-2013 (slicks era)

    V10s
    Schumi 14
    Montoya 9
    Raikkonen 6
    Barrichello 5
    Alonso 4

    V8s
    Alonso 7
    Raikkonen 6
    Massa 4
    Hamilton 4
    Schumacher 2

    V8s on slicks
    Vettel 13
    Hamilton 8
    Alonso 7
    Button 5
    Raikkonen 4

    The winners of course are Schumacher, Alonso and Vettel! Going back to 1998 for the V10 rule set would see Hakkinen equal 2nd with 9, and Schumi on double that with 18. Quite apt, given that Schumi battled hard with Hakkinen for WDCs, then Montoya once Hakkinen retired, followed by his team-mate Rubens and Kimi/Alonso. Coulthard has 3, and he did of course feature in the 2001 title chase (but I still rated Montoya higher there, who suffered from extensive reliability problems in the season, but looked set to win in Brazil after THAT pass on Schumi.. inside his first few races).

    My 2013: Vettel, Alonso/Raikkonen, Hamilton/Rosberg. Maybe I should revisit my 1-23 for 2013 of the whole grid and see if this fits..

    #246554
    Avatar of Journeyer
    Journeyer
    Participant

    @fastiesty I think you should! This is very interesting stuff! :)

    #246555
    Avatar of Klon
    Klon
    Participant

    I can’t remember whether I took part in the last ones, but here’s what I would pick:

    1) Michael Schumacher
    2) Sebastian Vettel
    3) Fernando Alonso
    4) Lewis Hamilton
    5) Rubens Barrichello
    6) Kimi Räikkönen
    7) Ralf Schumacher
    8) David Coulthard
    9) Juan Pablo Montoya
    10) Nick Heidfeld

    #246556
    Avatar of safeeuropeanhome
    safeeuropeanhome
    Participant

    1) Alonso
    2) Schumacher
    3) Vettel
    4) Raikkonen
    5) Hamilton
    6) Button
    7) Montoya
    8) Barrichello
    9) Massa
    10) Rosberg

    It’s a hard one but I think Alonso’s continued excellence over more than a decade is enough for me to put him at number one above Schumacher despite him only having two titles. Schumacher is still the greater overall though.

    #246557
    Avatar of Juan Pablo Heidfeld
    Juan Pablo Heidfeld
    Participant

    1) Alonso
    2) Raikkonen
    3) Vettel
    4) Schumacher
    5) Hamilton
    6) Montoya
    7) Button
    8) Barrichello
    9) Heidfeld
    10) Massa

    #246558
    Avatar of NickV
    NickV
    Member

    1. Alonso
    2. M Schumacher
    3. Vettel
    4. Hamilton
    5. Raikkonen
    6. Montoya
    7. Hakkinen
    8. Button
    9. Webber
    10. Barrichello

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