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F1 discussion

Unlap Cars

This topic contains 10 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of GeeMac GeeMac 8 months, 1 week ago.

Viewing 11 posts - 1 through 11 (of 11 total)
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  • #255952
    Profile photo of Alan Jeffrey
    Alan Jeffrey
    Participant

    Why wait 3 laps for drivers to unlap themselves after a safety car? They should be called through the Pits and held. Once the others have passed, they can go and join the end of the line and be credited 1 lap. Formula 1 is entertainment, all fans would prefer 3 more laps like the last 12 in Bahrain yesterday rather than waste 8 minutes getting the cars in the correct order. My suggestion achieves the same order within 1 lap.

    #255954
    Profile photo of Bradley Downton
    Bradley Downton
    Participant

    I thought this as well, however then remembered this was Formula One.

    Despite the vast amount of sense it makes to let lapped drivers fall to the back and credit them a lap, I can see a number of teams complaining. Complaints would be as follows:
    ‘They’re doing one less lap so… (whatever they want to complain about, fuel, tyres, reliability etc)’

    #255979
    Profile photo of Keith Collantine
    Keith Collantine
    Keymaster

    @lakelandman This idea comes up every time we have a ‘drivers unlapping…’ scenario, which I agree with you is a tedious waste of time.

    There was a really good Comment of the Day a while back explaining why this seemingly obvious solution would actually be a bad idea:

    http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/03/09/93-2/#commentoftheday

    #255990
    Profile photo of BenH
    BenH
    Participant

    But if they were credited with the lap, then the scenario in that COTD is moot as they would still be on the same lap after the credit and would be taking the restart lying astern from each other. Essentially, making it so everyone is on the same lap and in the correct placement order when taking the restart.

    #256009
    Profile photo of David not Coulthard
    David not Coulthard
    Participant

    Would somebody please explain

    So the order behind the safety is Vettel, Di Resta, (several cars), and Perez at the back. If you let all the cars on the lead lap overtake all the cars who have been lapped, then Perez will lap Di Resta! Not exactly fair for two cars who were fighting it out moments ago to now have a one-lap gap between them.

    I can’t quite exactly understand how that can result in Di Resta getting lapped by Sergio.

    #256017
    Profile photo of Alan Jeffrey
    Alan Jeffrey
    Participant

    My suggestion does not change the selection of cars – Those that are selected presently take about 3 laps to go round the track to get on the end of the line. In the example of COTD, The safety car is in front of Vettel, Perez was in front of him and if free to lap (at reduced speed) to catch up with the line of cars, later the cars selected to unlap can follow, led by di Resta, and 8 minutes later gets onto Perez’s tail (or not if they decide to restart before he has got there).

    In my suggestion, the cars presently selected as “free to pass”, go into the PITs and are held. Once the line goes passed, with Perez at the back, Di Resta and the others can rejoin with 1 credited lap. and Voilà Di Resta is on the tail of Perez. There are issues about gaining fuel but they also have lost tyre temp. There are winners and losers in every safety car, but let the spectators win with 3 extra laps of racing.

    #256025
    Profile photo of Bradley Downton
    Bradley Downton
    Participant

    Right, I’m going to try and explain this using a new situation that explains everything.

    The current running order is:
    HAM, ROS (+5.126s), HUL (+25.815), PER (+26.165), BIA (+94.812), CHI (+95.622), KOB (+1 Lap), ERI (+1 Lap)

    Hamilton leads and is coming up to lap Chilton and Bianchi (who are battling for position), having just lapped Kobayashi and Ericsson. He laps Chilton but before he gets chance to lap Bianchi, the Safety Car is called because Ericsson has crashed. The running order behind the safety car is now:
    HAM, ROS (+0.261), HUL (+0.512), PER (+0.861), BIA (+2.612), CHI (+1 Lap), KOB (+1 Lap)

    However the on-track order is:
    HAM, CHI, KOB, ROS, HUL, PER, BIA

    because the safety car picks up the leader (Hamilton) so Bianchi is able to avoid it and race to the tail of the field, but as Chilton and Kobayashi are already behind Hamilton they cannot.

    Therefore HAM, ROS, HUL PER and BIA are on lap 42, but CHI and KOB are only on lap 41.

    If Chilton and Kobayashi are told to fall to the back of the pack on that lap, they will still be on lap 41, compared to everyone else who is on lap 42, therefore Chilton will have effectively fallen a lap behind Bianchi. despite having been battling him just a few laps previous. (does this explain things @davidnotcoulthard?)

    As anyone can see this is unfair, so they would need to be credited a lap, bringing them forward and onto lap 42. Aside from the chaos this would cause with the timing screens it would also be grossly unfair to Bianchi, because Chilton would now have done one less race lap, therefore having one less lap to do during the race meaning he has an extra laps fuel, and tyres a lap fresher.

    The best solution is: given how in this example Bianchi is allowed to drive round at a fair pace to catch the back of the pack as soon as the safety car comes out – seeing as he hasn’t been lapped – Chilton and Kobayashi are allowed to immediately – upon the deployment of the Safety Car – unlap themselves from Hamilton and follow Bianchi round.

    Hopefully that clears everything up for everybody! :)

    #256028
    Profile photo of Alan Jeffrey
    Alan Jeffrey
    Participant

    Precisely – that’s why I credit them with 1 lap – so they are all on 42 and they are all in race right order and not interfering with the race for the podium.

    #256030
    Profile photo of Bradley Downton
    Bradley Downton
    Participant

    However the issue with your solution is as follows:

    Aside from the chaos this would cause with the timing screens it would also be grossly unfair to Bianchi, because Chilton would now have done one less race lap, therefore having one less lap to do during the race meaning he has an extra laps fuel, and tyres a lap fresher.

    And I can tell you now, no team would accept that.

    #256061
    Profile photo of David not Coulthard
    David not Coulthard
    Participant

    @bradley13

    because the safety car picks up the leader (Hamilton) so Bianchi is able to avoid it and race to the tail of the field, but as Chilton and Kobayashi are already behind Hamilton they cannot.

    Thanks.

    #256088
    Profile photo of GeeMac
    GeeMac
    Participant

    The issue is that the cars that pass the safety car all still have to respect the safety car delta time. Once they get released they still have to trundle round to catch the pack. If they were allowed to get to the back of the pack a bit quicker, not at full racing speed but a bit quicker while taking it easy in the area of the track which is causing the trouble, it could cut down the time wasted behind the safety car.

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