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Vettel performance in the 2011 GERMAN GP

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Keith Collantine Keith Collantine 3 years ago.

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  • #129795
    Avatar of frazbox
    frazbox
    Participant

    after his qualifying lap and his race pace, does anyone think that VETTEL is only capable of show is his pace, is when he’s on pole and has leads the race from the 1st corner? i alway though that he isnt as good as WEBBER, because when he is really being challenged, or has to make up ground, he always does some shady stuff

    #175139
    Avatar of S.J.M
    S.J.M
    Participant

    Well, im not sure that Webber is ‘better’ then Vettel, who is the 2010 WDC, least we forget. However, over the past 2 races, the young German hasnt helped the widehelp belief that whilst hes quick, hes not great with traffic/overtaking.

    #175140
    Avatar of David-A
    David-A
    Participant

    Ok, Vettel hasn’t covered himself with glory in the last 2 races. An average race in Silverstone, a bad weekend in Germany. His overtaking skills haven’t been great in the last 2 races. But you really need to watch the last 3 seasons over again if you think Webber is better than Vettel.

    Has Webber outqualified Vettel in half the races they’ve been together? No.

    Has Webber finished ahead in more races? No.

    Has he won more races? No.

    Has he outscored Vettel in any season Vettel has entered every race? No.

    Did he win the title in a 100% reliable RB6 when Vettel had 2 race ending car failures? No. Even finish as runner up to Vettel in the WDC 2010? No.

    Webber is good, Vettel is (much) better.

    #175141
    Avatar of Eggry
    Eggry
    Participant

    Webber is good at fight on track, Vetter is good at quali and cruising. but overall I should say Vettel is better because his way makes more victories. of course you can argue that Vettel is disappointing when he’s behind someone but also he’s much more amazing than anybody else when he’s in front.

    however if situation don’t go well to him so he wouldn’t cope with it and Webber outscore consistently…the opinion would be changed. so wait and see.

    #175142
    Avatar of TommyB
    TommyB
    Participant

    Here we go again…

    Has Webber ever won a race when he didn’t start first and second? Does anyone suggest he can’t overtake?

    What about when Alonso couldn’t get passed Petrov despite a championship being on the line? Does anyone suggest he can’t overtake?

    He has made overtaking moves in pretty much every race this season. As soon as he’s stuck behind a car for than about two laps people say he can’t overtake again.

    If you go back to Silverstone 2011. He overtook, Massa, Schumacher, Hulkenberg, Petrov and then as soon as he couldn’t get passed Sutil the ‘Vettel can’t overtake’ phrase was back.

    These things always happen, peoples opinions change race to race. Look at Hamilton, his aggression won him the race (passing Webber and Alonso) everyone will be saying what an amazing and hard racer he is. But when it goes wrong (like in Monaco) he’s an idiot and races dangerously.

    Vettel is certainly not a great overtaker but to say he can’t do it and is a bad driver after one example is ridiculous.

    #175143
    Avatar of smifaye
    smifaye
    Participant

    I think it is a pretty pointless argument. Yes a lot of Vettels wins come from pole position but why does this mean he isn’t as good as Webber. Vettel is quicker over one lap, so you could say this means Vettel is quicker than Webber.

    If you look at Senna, a lot of his wins came from pole positions and if he was in a position where he needed to overtake he would make the leading driver make the decision “I either come by or you go off the track”. But then he also showed in his career that he was one of the best overtakers too.

    I think it’s far too early in Vettels career to make such judgements. Take Buemi, scored points in his first ever race, so did Perez. Everyone went crazy about Perez and linking him with Ferrari after his first race. Now look at Buemi, not scored points for 8 races in a row and people are saying he is going to get replaced.

    I hold judgement for now.

    #175144
    Avatar of Icthyes
    Icthyes
    Participant

    For anyone who likes a stat, over the past three seasons Vettel has only won 16% of the races he hasn’t qualified on pole for and only a quarter of his wins have come from somewhere other than pole. Make of that what you will.

    My own personal opinion is that Vettel’s top qualifying performances enable him to sit out front, keeping the tyres nice and steady (due to its massive downforce, the RB7 can work the tyres too much over a stint) and react to whatever happens behind him. When he’s in the thick of it, he has to work the tyres harder and take life out of them. It also doesn’t help that when he’s in the thick of it, it’s because the car advantage has gone, so no wonder he’s not scything back to the front.

    So basically there is some truth in the perception, but there’s good reasons for it other than Vettel not being as natural a “racer”.

    #175145
    Avatar of xtophe
    xtophe
    Member

    I think this is a non-discussion. Yes, Hamilton seems more like a racer than Vettel. That is ofcourse because we have this idea that overtakes = racing. Vettel seems to be a bit more uncertain in tricky situations (e.g. Hamilton going 4 tyres on the wet to overtake at Silverstone, Vettel backing out in the same situation). Then again, he doesn’t need to take big risks, because he’s already miles ahead. He only needs to maximize what he and the RB7 can deliver over a weekend. If that means ending 5th instead of 4th, so be it, he doesn’t need to claw back any disadvantage in the WDC. I might be wrong, but I always feel like Vettel is in it for the long run, whereas Hamilton is much more focused on shining in every GP he attends. Ofcourse, that might just aswell be perception, I’m not inside either driver’s head.

    #175146
    Avatar of matt90
    matt90
    Participant

    From all his wins, Vettel’s average starting position is 1.25, whereas Hamilton’s is 1.8125. You can put this down to 2 things, or a mixture of the 2. Hamilton is better as a racer, or Vettel is better at converting poles into wins.

    #175147
    Avatar of Keith Collantine
    Keith Collantine
    Keymaster

    There’s already several post-race review articles where this is being discussed:

    2011 German Grand Prix team review: Red Bull

    2011 German Grand Prix race report: Hamilton comes out on top in three-way battle

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