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Vettel, Webber and reliability at Red Bull

This topic contains 65 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Juzh Juzh 10 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #133579
    Profile photo of mnmracer
    mnmracer
    Participant

    The 2013 Italian Grand Prix marked the fifth race in a row that a Red Bull encountered mechanical issues. Following Vettel’s retirement in Silverstone, Webber’s horror pitstop in Germany and both drivers’ mechanical issues in Hungary, Webber’s clutch issues at the start of the Belgian Grand Prix, both Red Bulls suffered gearbox issues at Monza. As this is the last year of the explosive pairing of Sebastian Vettel and Mark Webber, I looked through the history books to see how mechanical issues, team orders, and clashes with each other have affected both Red Bull drivers.

    2009
    China: Vettel can only make one run in each qualifying session due to driveshaft problems.
    Turkey: Vettel is given the team order not to challenge Webber for 2nd place.
    Belgium: Webber had an unsafe release during his pit stop, leading to a drive-through penalty.
    Hungary: Vettel retires with suspension faillure.
    Europe: Vettel has to make a 2nd stop because of fuel rig problems, and then retires with an engine problem.
    Singapore: Webber retires with a brake problem.
    Japan: Webber has issues with his headrest, forcing him to make 2 extra pit stops.

    2009 score card
    Sebastian Vettel: 4 issues (3 mechanical issues, 1 team order), 2 leading to a DNF
    Mark Webber: 3 issues (2 mechanical issues, 1 significant pit stop issue), 1 leading to a DNF

    2010
    Bahrain: Vettel loses the lead due to a spark plug failure, dropping him back to 4th.
    Bahrain: Webber had a slow pit stop, which lost him a position to Button.
    Australia: Vettel retires from the lead due to a brake failure.
    Spain: Vettel has brake issues late in the race, which drop him back from second to third place.
    Monaco: After Monaco, it is found that Vettel’s chassis was cracked.
    Turkey: Vettel loses out on pole position due to a broken anti-rollbar.
    Turkey: Webber loses the lead after Vettel colides with him.
    Canada: Webber had to change his gearbox, leading to a 5-place grid penalty.
    Canada: Vettel has gearbox issues during the race.
    Europe: Webber drops behind Kovallainen after a slow pit stop
    Britain: After a front wing failure left the team with one new spec front wing, Webber was given the old spec.
    Germany: Webber had an oil pick-up problem late in the race.
    Italy: Vettel’s engine shortly died half-way through the race.
    Korea: Vettel retires from the lead due to an engine failure.
    Brazil: Webber struggles with high engine temperatures in the race.

    2010 score card
    Sebastian Vettel: 8 issues (8 mechanical issues), 2 leading to a DNF
    Mark Webber: 7 issues (3 mechanical issues, 1 team order, 1 team-mate clash, 2 significant pit stop issues), none leading to a DNF

    2011
    Australia: Webber had KERS issues in Q2 and Q3.
    Australia: Vettel and Webber had KERS issues during the race.
    Australia: Webber had problems with his chassis.
    Malaysia: Webber had no KERS in Q3.
    Malaysia: Vettel and Webber had KERS issues during the race.
    Malaysia: Vettel has brake problems late in the race.
    China: Webber qualifies 18th after electrical problems in practice.
    China: Vettel has KERS issues during the race.
    Spain: Vettel had KERS issues during qualifying.
    Spain: Vettel had KERS issues throughout the race.
    Monaco: Webber had radio issues shortly before his pit stop, causing a slow stop.
    Canada: Webber had KERS issues during qualifying.
    Europe: Webber had gearbox issues later in the race, dropping him from 2nd to 3rd.
    Britain: A faulty wheelgun at his pit stop drops Vettel from the lead into 2nd place.
    Britain: Vettel has KERS issues late in the race.
    Britain: Webber was given team-orders not to challenge Vettel, who had KERS issues.
    Britain: Vettel was challenged by Webber, who ignored the team orders not to.
    Germany: Vettel has brake issues during the race.
    Hungary: Webber had no KERS in Q2, which returned in Q3.
    Hungary: Webber’s DRS failed during Q3.
    Hungary: Vettel has brake issues during the race.
    Belgium: Webber misses the pit call and had to go for another lap.
    Italy: Webber had KERS issues in qualifying.
    Singapore: Webber had no DRS during the race, which he believed dropped him from 2nd to 3rd.
    Abu Dhabi: Vettel has a tire puncture in turn 1.
    Brazil: Vettel has gearbox issues, which drops him from the lead, to finish 2nd.

    2011 score card
    Sebastian Vettel: 12 issues (10 mechanical issues, 1 significant pit stop issue, 1 team-mate clash), 1 leading to a DNF
    Mark Webber: 15 issues (12 mechanical issues, 2 significant pit stop issues, 1 team order), none leading to a DNF

    2012
    Australia: Both Vettel and Webber had KERS issues in qualifying.
    Malaysia: Vettel’s radio stopped working shortly after the restart.
    Bahrain: Webber had no KERS for the first lap.
    Spain: Webber is held too long in Q2, making him miss out on Q3.
    Spain: Both Vettel and Webber had to have their front wing changed during the race.
    Canada: Webber has engine issues early on in the race.
    Europe: Webber had DRS issues in qualifying, which left him at the back of the starting grid.
    Europe: Vettel retires from the lead due to an alternator failure.
    Germany: Webber had to change his gearbox, leading to a 5-place grid penalty.
    Germany: Vettel has KERS issues during the race.
    Hungary: Webber had an issue with his differential.
    Belgium: Webber receives a 5-spot grid penalty for a gearbox change.
    Italy: Vettel retires with an alternator failure.
    India: Webber’s KERS issue dropped him from 2nd to 3rd.
    Abu Dhabi: Vettel’s fuel pump issues in qualifying sent him to the back of the starting grid.
    United States: Webber retires with an alternator failure.
    Brazil: Vettel’s start is affected after Webber ignored instructions not to challenge him.
    Brazil: Webber is issued a team order to let Vettel pass.
    Brazil: Vettel’s radio stops working, leading to wrong tires at the pit stop.
    Brazil: Vettel’s last change of tires saw a 7.6 second slower pit stop.

    2012 score card
    Sebastian Vettel: 10 issues (8 mechanical issues, 1 team-mate clash, 1 significant pit stop issue), 2 leading to a DNF
    Mark Webber: 12 issues (10 mechanical issues, 1 team orders, 1 significant pit stop issue), 1 leading to a DNF

    2013
    Australia: Webber has ECU/KERS issues for the first part of the race.
    Australia: Webber returns in traffic after the front jack failed in the pit stop.
    Malaysia: Vettel is given a team order not to challenge Webber half-way through the race.
    Malaysia: Vettel is given a team order not to overtake Webber after the final pit stops.
    Malaysia: Webber loses the lead after Vettel ignores a team order.
    China: Webber lost fuel pressure in Q2.
    China: Webber’s wheel comes off during the race.
    Britain: Vettel retires from the lead with gearbox issues.
    Germany: Webber’s first pit stop goes disastrous, which puts him back at the end of the field.
    Germany: Vettel has KERS issues during the race.
    Hungary: Webber has KERS issues during qualifying.
    Hungary: Vettel has overheating and KERS issues during the race.
    Belgium: Webber has clutch issues at the start of the race.
    Italy: Both Vettel and Webber have gearbox issues, which causes them to have to short-shift.

    2013 half-season score card
    Sebastian Vettel: 6 issues (4 mechanical issues, 2 team orders), 1 leading to a DNF
    Mark Webber: 9 issues (6 mechanical issues, 2 significant pit stop issues, 1 team-mate clash), 1 leading to a DNF

    4.5 year score card
    Sebastian Vettel: 40 issues (33 mechanical issues, 3 team order, 2 team-mate clashes, 2 significant pit stop issue), 8 leading to a DNF
    Mark Webber: 45 issues (33 mechanical issues, 3 team orders, 2 team-mate clashes, 7 significant pit stop issues), 3 leading to a DNF

    #241584
    Profile photo of Keith Collantine
    Keith Collantine
    Keymaster

    Impressive stuff @mnmracer! This comes up a lot in the comments so I suspect it’s a thread which will get referred to a lot…

    #241585
    Profile photo of andae23
    andae23
    Participant

    Sebastian Vettel: 39 issues (32 mechanical issues, 3 team order, 2 team-mate clashes, 2 significant pit stop issue), 8 leading to a DNF
    Mark Webber: 45 issues (33 mechanical issues, 3 team orders, 2 team-mate clashes, 7 significant pit stop issues), 3 leading to a DNF

    Wow, looking at the DNFs there, that’s pretty significant. Great effort!

    #241586
    Profile photo of adamf184
    adamf184
    Participant

    That is a very good effort. Only thing that springs to mind that Webber has had more of a share of is issues that effect his qualifying. Quite a few times his car is in bits having KERS batteries and looms etc replaced FP3 or rushing to do it before Qualy. Just a side not that might have a knock on effect to the weekend.

    #241587
    Profile photo of Sri Harsha
    Sri Harsha
    Participant

    Impressive Stuff @mnmracer Thank you for your Work It must have taken lot of effort.

    #241588
    Profile photo of celeste
    celeste
    Participant

    @mnmracer great job.

    @adamf184 interesting observation, maybe gremlins like to be on Mark side for quali and in VettelĀ“s side in the race?

    #241589
    Profile photo of Slr
    Slr
    Participant

    I never knew about the team order at Turkey 2009, good work.

    #241590
    Profile photo of crr917
    crr917
    Participant

    2 DNFs for Webber this year after both botched pit stops, right?

    #241591
    Profile photo of bull mello
    bull mello
    Participant

    Great research! It is always nice to have facts to rebut the conspiracy theorists. I don’t know why so many people are so willing to believe that Formula 1 teams would spend millions to have two cars and drivers in each race to then purposely sabotage one of their own cars thereby decreasing their point scoring ability for the team by 50%. At the end of the season prize money is dispersed based on points accumulated and yet some people want to believe that teams are willing to put one driver above the whole rest of the team including the owners. THat would be ludicrous and it would be far cheaper at that point to not even be in F1.

    #241592
    Profile photo of celeste
    celeste
    Participant

    @crr917 the only DNF that Webber have had this year is China. Wikipedia said so.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Formula_One_season

    #241593
    Profile photo of OmarR-Pepper
    OmarR-Pepper
    Participant

    Great stuff @mnmracer, but…
    The “but” doesn’t have to do anything about you, just about people who “stare” but never “see”. I mean, we can post tons of info about how equal the things have been given to Red Bull boys, and yet many people will just understand and bend the things the way they want to see it.
    But congratulations again. Maybe your post can open some people’s eyes, at least a couple.

    #241594
    Profile photo of crr917
    crr917
    Participant

    @celeste yes, my mistake. Forgot Webber did finish in Germany.
    Edit: damn, he even scored points.

    #241595
    Profile photo of Jon Sandor
    Jon Sandor
    Member

    One you missed – Vettel had KERS problem during the 2012 German GP.

    #241596
    Profile photo of mnmracer
    mnmracer
    Participant

    @jonsan (and all btw, any additional crowd-sourcing is welcome)
    I can’t seem to find a reference to that. Could you help with that? I’ll be happy to update it then.

    #241597
    Profile photo of Jon Sandor
    Jon Sandor
    Member

    Google the following words from the BBC “as it happened” race report on the 2012 German GP.

    “Sebastian Vettel has dropped back from Fernando Alonso by 2.3 seconds and its seems he has a problem with Kers. The team tell him “we can’t use high energy”.”

    Sorry, I’d post a link but the a href stuff gives me trouble.

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