Vettel's racecraft (82 posts)

  • Profile picture of raymondu999 raymondu999 said 1 year, 8 months ago:

    Did you ever see him moving to cover the inside at any corner? I only saw him once on the inside on the approach to Ste. Devote. Otherwise as I said he was controlling the exits of the others.

  • Profile picture of Ell Ell said 1 year, 8 months ago:

    I didn’t say that Vettel did it. It is the easiest way to defend. Remember Senna and Mansell in 1992?

  • Profile picture of matt90 matt90 said 1 year, 8 months ago:

    Obviously he put in a few good performances in slower cars at that stage in his career, but I mean a car with the quali disadvantage of the Ferrari and McLaren early in the season (and to some extent still now, there’s no doubt they still have an advantage in quali over the others, and there race pace seems to be at least fairly similar).

    I don’t want to see him in a car as slow as thee BMW and Toro Rosso again. The thing that most impresses about Hamilton is his 09 performance. I know that car got massive upgrades, but it still looked like he had no right to drag that car to where he did even if he was flattered by his team mate being a couple of upgrades behind.

  • Profile picture of Dizzy-A Dizzy-A said 1 year, 8 months ago:

    @ Ell – it’s not just about preventing the others from passing at Monaco. It’s about not making a single mistake under pressure, on a track with no margin for error.

  • Profile picture of daykind daykind said 1 year, 8 months ago:

    I think though Alonso and Button didn’t make a single mistake, but I never thought they’d pass. Sure, it was a great drive, but I’m not sure Monaco was great defending. In Spain, I’m not sure Hamilton made much of a move at him, and he cracked in Canada. Also, he couldn’t hold off Rosberg on Sunday (who was slower) and defended excellently.

    Vettel is a massively talented driver, but I think Ell’s argument might not be as stupid as you are all making it out to be.

  • Profile picture of Dan Thorn Dan Thorn said 1 year, 8 months ago:

    Vettel’s defending this year has been top notch. I was particularly impressed at China, when he pretty much stopped his car at the apex of the hairpin to stop Hamilton cutting back. That’s the sort of thing you often see in bike racing but not in F1.

    At Barcelona Hamilton may not have made many attempts to pass, but good defending isn’t always about stopping the other drivers attacks – it’s about preventing those attacks from happening in the first place, which Vettel did brilliantly with clever use of his KERS and the way he drove the lap.

    Monaco was also impressive for what David A said, and also because he did so on old tyres after the pit crew made a mistake. That’s the sort of maturity that you don’t see very often – maybe once or twice with Alonso, and with Schumacher in his heyday.

    Yes, he made a mistake under pressure at Montreal, but that was a whole different kind of pressure to that he faced at Barcelona. Having someone gradually catch you at a few tenths a lap on a track where overtaking was harder is a whole different kettle of fish to having someone reel you in at a couple of seconds a lap on a track where overtaking is relatively simple. Vettel will have known about Buttons pace and the situation, and with the difficult conditions a mistake wasn’t exactly surprising. In fact, look at from another angle – he only made a slight mistake – another corner could have ended in the wall, retirement and zero points, rather than the 18 he did get.

    I don’t think you can really count being passed by Rosberg as an example of bad defending, given the worry over the tyres. Seb was likely taking it somewhat easy, and the Mercedes had epic straight line speed all weekend. It wasn’t as if Vettel took an age to get back past him either, was it?

  • Profile picture of raymondu999 raymondu999 said 1 year, 8 months ago:

    daykind – yes, Rosberg was slower in Spa. OVER A LAP. Rosberg was mighty quick in the straights; and it had a tow all the way from the exit of La Source, through Eau Rouge and through the Kemmel straight. It has to be remembered that out of the exit of La Source towards Les Combes, straight-line speed is the only real requirement. Which the Mercedes had in spades.

    It has to also be said that when Vettel re-overtook him, contrary to what people say, DRS wasn’t allowed yet.

  • Profile picture of Ell Ell said 1 year, 8 months ago:

    @raymondu999 actually you may find the RBR was quickest on the straight (at times), and if Vettel was quicker over a lap, then he would have pulled out of the DRS zone, had a lead where the tow would’ve made no difference, wouldn’t he?

  • Profile picture of raymondu999 raymondu999 said 1 year, 8 months ago:

    The mercs were 1-2 kph faster on the straights. Vettel was quicker than the Mercedes over a lap because of Sector 2. In Sector 1 the Mercedes matched the Red Bull. You have to remember that Rosberg overtook Vettel at the start only; Out of La Source it was Vettel 1st and Rosberg 2nd; but due to the lines they took, Rosberg’s exit was much better. He tucked in very nicely into Vettel’s tow and got it just all the way up. This tow, plus the Merc’s straight-line speed advantage (though slight) played very well into Rosberg’s hands. If you watched it again, Rosberg was just breezing ahead and was cruising past Vettel halfway into the Kemmel straight.

  • Profile picture of Dizzy-A Dizzy-A said 1 year, 8 months ago:

    @ daykind – I was referring to the possibility of Vettel making a mistake at Monaco, under pressure from 2 world champions. Of course Alonso was going to find it hard to pass because of the nature of the circuit. That same nature makes it easy to put it in the wall with any error, especially when being chased.

  • Profile picture of Asanator Asanator said 1 year, 8 months ago:

    the argument is moot, the fact is without the stoppage in Monaco, Vettel would have had to pit for new tyres, it would have ended up being Button vs Alonso for the lead.

  • Profile picture of matt90 matt90 said 1 year, 8 months ago:

    I believe that is true. He wouldn’t even have had traction out of the corners to prevent being overtaken on the straight.

  • Profile picture of raymondu999 raymondu999 said 1 year, 8 months ago:

    @Asanator – I don’t believe that to be true. He had gone for so far and risked so much. It would be idiotic to throw it out the window in the last 5 laps. If he stayed out till the end, he possibly would’ve won. It might have been a small possibility, but possibility nonetheless. But if he pitted, he would have been at least 3rd for sure.

    matt, I’m not sure though. You could visually see that even just before the safety car, Alonso had nowhere NEAR the traction of Vettel. Vettel was holding them up on Anthony Noghes and Portier so they couldn’t carry more speed through, then just slammed the throttle; and doing it every lap. Alonso was just getting SO MUCH wheelspin when trying to chase Vettel; while Vettel just used his rear tyres to stream away.

  • Profile picture of Dizzy-A Dizzy-A said 1 year, 8 months ago:

    Well Asanator, that’s no more than speculation. There was under 10 laps for anything to happen, after ~20 laps of pressure.

    Even without Monaco, we have seen a trend of Vettel’s racecraft (attacking & defending) improving enough to rival some of the best on the grid.

  • Profile picture of matt90 matt90 said 1 year, 8 months ago:

    Yes but Vettel’s tyres were supposed to go over the cliff. I know it’s speculation but everybody seemed so sure, and if they did have a drop-off that bad I believe he would have struggled for traction.

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