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F1 discussion

Vettel's racecraft

This topic contains 81 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of raymondu999 raymondu999 1 year, 12 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 82 total)
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  • #177148
    Profile photo of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    Well you have two extremes though; in Canada anyone who was in DRS range of someone else would be far ahead of the other before the braking zone. Spain wasn’t super effective, but we did see a lot of DRS overtakes. Also, you’re forgetting that Lewis was alongside Vettel 2 or 3 times in those last 15 laps; so I wouldn’t class that as “no attempted overtakes”

    #177149
    Profile photo of Ell
    Ell
    Participant

    But, Vettel would have some confidence in the fact that his car is so much faster in the high speed corners. He maybe should have pulled out of the DRS zone, but he didn’t. At Canada, he didn’t have that comfort, was most likely fearful how he was watching a guy completly on top of his game pullong in at over 2 seconds a lap. Again, there was 2 DRS zones at Canada, so there was 1 more chance to overtake then Spain.

    #177150
    Profile photo of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    Your argument was “he can’t hold off a car with DRS” but in Canada, nobody could.

    Also, in Spain, Hamilton’s McLaren was clearly much faster in racing trim. He was catching Vettel by 1.5 to 2 seconds a lap in that last stint leading to their 15 laps of constantly being 0.5-0.7 apart. Vettel wasn’t even able to pull away in Sector 1 with the massive turn 3, and could only pull 1 tenth out in sector 2 with Turn 9; where Hamilton should have been compromised by the dirty air in both sectors

    #177151
    Profile photo of Ell
    Ell
    Participant

    Im not saying he can’t defend a car with DRS, nearly no-one can.

    He is a very quick guy, but i think he could improve under race conditions holding off quicker cars.

    #177152
    Profile photo of phil9079
    phil9079
    Participant

    what’s the point of holding off a much quicker car with DRS? You’re defenseless anyway, so why trying to hold off?

    The rain is another story. Never forget the constant G-forces, the concentration where he needs to go through every lap with a dry circuit (if you can read my topic about the drivers body to know what it really is to drive an F1 car for the human body). If the circuit is wet and there’s only 1 dry line, it’s verry VERRY easy to lose control over the car. Seb was a bit driving in the wet at the last lap, therefore he lost it all. Also, don’t forget that he was leading the race from the 1st lap untill the lap before the last lap. Tyres were also going off verry quickly as you all know that tyrecontrol is nessecairy in Canada

    There are so many factors which any team needs to get right for a race. Car needs to be fast and DRS and KERS need to work, setup needs to be the right 1, driver needs to be fit, the feeling of the driver needs to be good, the tyres need to be good,…

    Don’t know who said this but remember this quote: “The car may be the fastest on the grid, BUT somebody has to drive it over the line in one piece.”

    #177153
    Profile photo of Mads
    Mads
    Participant

    @EII If anyone has shown defending skills it has to be Vettel. He held Hamilton off for quite a while in China even though his tyres were off the cliff. In Spain he again held of Hamilton who was some 1.5s faster. In Monaco his tyres again were shot dead and he kept cars that were 2s a lap quicker behind for some 15 laps. Who else has done anything like that? Rosberg was really good in Spa.. but.. i don’t remember any other people on the grid who has done something like that recently.

    #177154
    Profile photo of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    Exactly. Seeing Monaco and Spain reminded me of Imola 05 and 06 actually; though nowhere as dramatic.

    As I said; his defensive driving is not very visible, but he has a way of beautifully reading the car behind and controlling their exits

    #177155
    Profile photo of matt90
    matt90
    Participant

    I think Spain was simply a case of the Red Bull’s extreme traction out of the final corner which meant that the DRS wasn’t enough for Lewis, and if he closed elsewhere on the lap the track meant he’d slip back again. No doubt Vettel drove well, but I wouldn’t use it as an example of his supreme defensive skills n comparison to Imola 05 and 06.

    And in Monaco again he drove very well, but his tyres weren’t ‘shot dead,’ it was revealed that although they were very worn they were yet to reach the real drop-off that may have seen overtakes if not for the red flag.

    #177156
    Profile photo of phil9079
    phil9079
    Participant

    @matt90, in comparison to imola 05 and 06? he didn’t even raced in 05, so it could only be at 06 where he was TEST driver for williams. Maybe you mean schumacher instead of Vettel.

    You’ve got a point about monaco, but like I said before, somebody needs to pull it over the line…

    #177157
    Profile photo of matt90
    matt90
    Participant

    I mean people comparing the race to other great defensive drivers, like those exhibited in Imola 05 and 06 by Schumacher and Alonso. I was not confusing anybody.

    #177158
    Profile photo of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    Oh no no no. It was nowhere near Imola 05/06. I just said it reminded me of these Imola races

    #177159
    Profile photo of phil9079
    phil9079
    Participant

    @matt, ah ok never mind then. schumacher is still a masterclass if it depends on driving defensively, that’s for sure…

    #177160
    Profile photo of matt90
    matt90
    Participant

    Yes I suppose it was similar in having such a long and close finish. I didn’t really mean your point though, I just meant to anybody considering Spain a truly great defensive drive, they need to look back to other ones. The great thing about Imola was that although both drivers defended brilliantly you still had a real sense that the other could still finally pass any time. Whereas, in Spain, after Hamilton sort of had a first go he couldn’t get as close again, and you got the impression that no matter how good a run he got out of the last turn he would be relying on Vettel making a pretty big error to get close in turn 1. Vettel drove well, certainly though.

    In many ways it doesn’t help that I don’t particularly like him, so it’s hard to prevent my bias from coming through. But it’s hard to fault him this year, and some of his races and poles have been great. I just don’t want to heap praise on him until I’ve seen him in a slower car and I have to, lol. I definitely have to rank him among the 3 best drivers now though. It’s like how you grudgingly have to accept how brilliant Schumacher was.

    #177161
    Profile photo of Mads
    Mads
    Participant

    @matt90 “until I’ve seen him in a slower car” Ehmm.. yeah well.. because his 2007 BMW and Torro Rosso was definitely the fastest cars on the grid! As well as his 2008 TR or his RB5 in the first half of 2009.

    #177162
    Profile photo of Ell
    Ell
    Participant

    @mads but yeah, its so easy to overtake at Monaco. Even when your tyres are shot, it is fairly easy to defend by sticking it on the inside.

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