@Kingshark I hear you.
Firstly though – we’re not talking of completeness or anything. We’re just talking b*lls out speed comparison.
The fact that Alonso is 5 years younger is only half-relevant – because that is something that will never change. He is, and forever will be – 5 years younger. Same with experience. If someone now says “look – Alonso outqualified Massa” no one ever goes “well yeah but Massa has had less seasons in F1…”
Sadly, therefore – this F3000 record is the most recent info that we have on Alonso vs Webber in equal machinery. Unless anyone has karting times from when they’re doing a charity race or somesuch.
Like I detailed at the start of the thread – there is no single correct methodology on this. Do it one way and someone slams you. Do it another way, someone else slams you. It’s a no-win scenario.
In fact if you read that post you’d see that I was the first to say the info would be outdated.
Heidfeld IIRC did beat Webber on points until Pizza Boy stepped in his place – that is true. But how is this different to Trulli-Alonso? If we’re to take the 2005 season in a snapshot, for Webber vs Heidfeld, then we should for Alonso’s 2004 too. You could argue – “Well hey, 2003 went to Alonso; shouldn’t we take that into account?” True, but you have to take things as they come, in the sense that until Trulli’s summary dismissal, he was beating Alonso in the 2004 Renault (as opposed to the 2003 Renault)
It’s a dicey one – because as I’ve said in the past, it’s never as clear cut a case as “Driver A is faster than Driver B” – it always is “Driver A is faster than Driver B in Machine X.” The way a driver’s style suits the machinery has to be taken into account. Just because Alonso beat Trulli in the 2003 Renault, doesn’t mean he will in the 2004 Renault.
My personal feelings being that if Rosberg and Webber went up against each other again in equal cars, Rosberg would win.
I don’t begrudge you that opinion. I personally think it will be closer than most people think. But this thread is trying to quantify these – not feel them.
Another issue I’ve brought up is – who is a benchmark? Some say that because Hamilton stood up to Alonso over a season in 2007 – it proves him to be able to equal to Alonso over a season. Fair enough. Don’t dispute that. But why is Alonso a benchmark?
Again I’m not slating Alonso here – but we’re talking in a logical roundabout that never ends. You could say, “Alonso is a benchmark, because he beat Massa Trulli Fisichella Piquet.”
Ok that’s nice. But in a roundabout fashion – why are Massa/Trulli/Fisichella/Piquet benchmarks? Because they beat XYZ. Why is HE a benchmark? So on and so forth. There is no absolute reference frame in relativity.
Note again that I’m only using Alonso as an example – and not to slate him.
In the same fashion, we could apply it to Webber.
Webber’s bad/good/average, because he beat/equalled/couldn’t beat Driver XYZ. So why is that a good benchmark? Well Driver XYZ beat/equalled/lost to Driver ABC. So why? And yadda yadda yadda.