Villeneuve on Vettel
This topic contains 34 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by Anonymous 1 year, 9 months ago.
21st March 2013, 18:27 at 6:27 pm #229152
“I understand but”
Then maybe you should stop the tirade. If you don’t think Keith can run this site objectively, why do you read it? This is the forum on a free blog website. The person who runs it has no obligation to entertain your every whim, particularly on the forum, especially if you aren’t even interested in the story. I have never seen a single shred of evidence for any bias from Keith. If he disliked Alonso, why did he rate him as the best driver last year when Vettel would have been justifiable?21st March 2013, 18:29 at 6:29 pm #229153
Did it occur to you that Keith has better things to do than justify JV’s nonsense? The Perez-Alonso stuff is relevant to the current crop of drivers. Villeneuve constantly talks nonsense to get his name in the press, which is why most people don’t treat him as credible any more.
Your attempts to imply that @keithcollantine is biased against Alonso are nonsensical and utterly unfounded.21st March 2013, 18:40 at 6:40 pm #229154
do you all really feel that vettel excelled that well during the more “hectic” races in 2012?
I thought he drove like a crash test dummie, demolition derby driver in abu dhabi and brazil… no style, flair or finesse, just using a superior car (which apparently can take a hell of a beating without breaking apart) and the Torro Rossos as helpers
A “superior car” that wasn’t actually the fastest in 2012, but was still used to grab very good results despite the circumstances (And damage to his car and radio in Brazil)… And Vettel broke his wing in Abu Dhabi, I give you that, but I fail to see how that, or being hit from behind makes SV a “crash test dummie”, never mind have 2 users claim they agree.21st March 2013, 18:47 at 6:47 pm #229155
To be honest, I wasn’t that impressed with Vettel’s drive in Abu Dhabi myself. He was fast, gelling with his car well. But I thought it was sloppy, and once Hamilton had retired he probably was driving the fastest car in the race, as Button was having a typically anonymous day in a car he just could not perform well in regularly. However, although it was messy and in a fast car, it doesn’t take away from the fact that he did fight from the back, which completely goes against what JV said. Also, his drive from the back in Brazil, despite being his own doing and once again in the second fastest car, was impressive.21st March 2013, 18:51 at 6:51 pm #229156
Red Bull were actually very close to McLaren in 2012, even on raw pace alone.
RBR was faster in Bahrain, Monaco, Europe, Great Britain, Japan, Korea, and India.
Macca was faster in Australia, China, Spain, Hungary, Belgium, Italy, Abu Dhabi and Brazil.
They were about equal in Malaysia, Canada, Germany, Singapore, and USA.
That makes Red Bull the quicker car in 7 races, McLaren quicker in 8 races, and them both being about equal in 5 races.
In 2012, both Red Bull and McLaren had 8 pole positions each. Likewise, both Red Bull and McLaren had 7 victories each.
As you can see, the RB8 was very close, if not equal in pace to the MP4-27. Now combine that with the fact that Hamilton had to deal with consistent team incompetence, and poor reliability; which Vettel at Red Bull didn’t have the headache of.
Ferrari only had two poles and 3 wins. Ferrari on pure pace were clearly lagging behind. Reliability saved them from yet another complete failure of a season.
Red Bull was undoubtedly the team to be at in 2012. They had a very fast car, close if not equal to the quickest, good team management and teamwork, and relatively reliable car.21st March 2013, 18:54 at 6:54 pm #229158
yes, I’ve might have exaggerated quite a bit for effect, saying crash test dummie and all, but in my min opinion as @matt90 said, in none of the two races (of discussion) did Vettel convince ME that he was such a solid ‘racer’ as the common opinion would have me believe…
I don’t remember in exact detail but I seem to recall him doing som dodgy overtakes and all in all quite a shaky appearance, NOT one which made me think that he was stone cold under pressure…21st March 2013, 19:28 at 7:28 pm #229159
I’d say @matt90 ‘s assessment is the fairest here.
For me, Vettel had been a solid racer long before Brazil or Abu Dhabi (which weren’t perfect). He’d pulled off some good passes in the past when needed to (having improved since making 2 poor moves back in 2010), like Belgium for instance, when he took quite a few cars out of the DRS zone.21st March 2013, 19:51 at 7:51 pm #229161
@catracho504 The other story was potentially revealing a new fact about something which, if proved, would be quite damning.
Whereas this is merely Jacques Villeneuve at his rent-a-quote worst.21st March 2013, 20:10 at 8:10 pm #229162
I’ll also point out that even this nonsense about Keith being biased and the constant defence of Alonso when anybody suggests he is anything other than God himself has not actually been moderated. Perhaps other moderation is because of how confrontational you are, as evidenced in this thread with Keith and the Alonso-Perez thread with everybody else.
Back on topic, I would not say that Vettel is the perfect racer. Yet he sometimes thrives under pressure, as others have shown evidence of. Other times he remains fast, but is a little more messy, as in the cases I explained earlier.21st March 2013, 20:10 at 8:10 pm #229163
Could someone give me a reasonable, logical and incontestable reason why the opinion of Jody Scheckter is more relevant and deserve to be several days in the first page than the opinion of Jacque Villeneuve ?
Statistics says: Both ex driver in formula 1 , both have driven legendary cars, both are Formula 1 world Champions.
If we want to look more careful and deeply the opinion of Jacques Villeneuve could be more relevant. Why ?
Becuase he was a formula 1 racer till 2006, he raced against : Alonso, Button, Raikkonen, R&M Schumacher, Coulthard, Hakkinen, Frentzen, Fisichella, Montoya…etc
He is more connected with this era of formula 1, while Scheckter stop racing in 1980…different epok, different drivers, different cars…..different opinions.
Anyway the only 2 differences are that Scheckter is from South America and spoke bad for Alonso while Villeneuve is from Canada and spoke bad for Vettel.
I think you all have misunderstood @catracho504, he is not saying that he don’t like the site (other way he won’t be here). He is just saying that there isn’t a equal treatment or a one way standart.
He is just making a critic and criticism should be always welcome, also for this site. Everyone that make me a critic (without offending !) is welcome. Critics are only to make you better not worse…like normal there are good or bad critics and the one that manages this site can decide if this critic is good one or a bad one.
I personally would have chosen not to publish neither Scheckter neither Villeneuve. thats my opinion.
Anyway @catracho504 in my personal opinion the reason why @keithcollantine have published the Scheckter article is not because he hate Alonso…but because there are a few Famous people (in formula 1) who crtic Alonso (maybe only Scheckter…:)..) so by publishing this, people will be more curious and more attractive for the article…In the other hand there are some people that have said the same thing about Vettel…the last was Coulthard yesterday who said he should change team to gain respect…Brundle, Niki Lauda, Hamilton…etc..There is a worldwide opinion that vettel need to prove more to gain Alonso’s respect….So the article of Vettel wouldn’t be interesting for this point of view. This is my personal opinion or maybe i would have done the same in his position…:)
About the Villeneuve opinion, i don’t agree but i also don’t disagree…simply i don’t know yet. I need from Vettel more years, and probably drive Ferrari or Mclaren and have the pressure (even when you have a bad car) to win…Vettel will probably deliver as Alonso, maybe better, maybe worse…i dont know..onyl time will tell…for now i have a huge amount of respect for a triple WDC, he had the car and he did it…and it’s not easy anyway21st March 2013, 20:13 at 8:13 pm #229164
I don’t care much for JV’s comment, but I find it silly to see the lengths to which people go to discredit Vettel’s driving. He’s won three consecutive championships. Was he in the best car? For the majority of the time, yes. Schumacher was when he won his championships as well. As were Senna, Fangio, Clark, Prost, Piquet, and practically every other WDC ever. If you’re not a fan of him, too bad. He is still one of the best, along with Alonso, Hamilton, and Räikkönen.21st March 2013, 20:14 at 8:14 pm #229165
The Schekter thing was a far more interesting, thought out, and explained opinion. It also was an assessment of more than a single driver- it was him saying who he thought was best, rather than random criticism. Therefore, it was much more worthy of attention, as should be obvious to anybody not looking for controversy and bias where there is none.21st March 2013, 20:47 at 8:47 pm #229166
I asked for a reason not opinion. What you have said it’s a opinion…and I also gave a possible reason why Villeneuve’s opinion is more relevant.
“The Schekter thing was a far more interesting”
it was interesting for you, for me not !… and probably for most of the formula 1 fans, everywhere you look he is rated as the best…and i doubt they agree with Scheckter…even in this site.
And please explain to me what is the “explained opinion” that Scheckter gave ?
I hear people say: I hate Alonso for 2007!… But what did Alonso in 2007??
Did he kill someone?
did he rob a bank?…21st March 2013, 20:57 at 8:57 pm #229167
A few points:
– Vettel is a great driver: he has flaws like every single driver on the grid, but overall he is one of the best drivers in current Formula 1.
– Villeneuve can say what he wants, but the question is: do I care?
– @catracho504 you are reading into this way too much: just that Keith doesn’t look up the link for an article he found less interesting than that story about Alonso doesn’t mean he is a Vettelian and he hates Alonso. Regarding your point that he should be unbiased: for articles I agree with you, but this is a forum… these things are made for people to give their opinions. Let’s stop this discussion and go back on-topic.21st March 2013, 20:58 at 8:58 pm #229168
Maybe you should read beyond the first 8 words of my post if you want something factual. He actually admitted his bias, which is something. He essentially said that he couldn’t rate him as highly due to his lack of respect, and justified it. I’m sure you know full well what happened in 2007, whether you agree that Alonso was at fault or not. He also said that Alonso clearly drove very well anyway, so wasn’t entirely unreasonable. And Schekter said more than that one quote on Alonso. The rest is as I described- of interest and relevant. I’m amazed by the number of people who want to post here when they apparently think the entire site is crooked.
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