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F1

Public Group active 13 hours, 31 minutes ago

F1 discussion

Villeneuve's borefest

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This topic contains 29 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys Prisoner Monkeys 3 years, 4 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 30 total)
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  • #129689
    Profile photo of John H
    John H
    Participant

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/14027440.stm

    I pretty much agree with most of it, especially about penalties and DRS. What do we reckon? I say more of this please until the FIA and FOTA listen up!

    #173241
    Profile photo of Ned Flanders
    Ned Flanders
    Participant

    One bad race and F1 is a borefest?! It may be a bit overly artificial, but it’s hardly boring. Stop your attention seeking hyperbole Jacques

    #173242
    Profile photo of LL Jehto
    LL Jehto
    Member

    no, he’s not saying that.. he said this new rules turn the races bore. And I agree with him (and the arguments he uses).

    I have fall asleep quite a few times this year (including the “classic” Canada)

    #173243
    Profile photo of Mads
    Mads
    Participant

    I agree with him that DRS is artificial, and that penalties for (some) mistakes are a bit silly, really. Other then that i love every bit of F1. I mean yeah Valencia was boring, but it was by miles the best race in Valencia we have ever seen. It is the track that is the problem not F1.

    I can’t see why F1 is more boring then it was when he was driving. I think the races are far more exciting then in previous seasons.

    I don’t see why F1 is a borefest now, and his comments about overtakes only happens on the straights is plain wrong. Yes a lot of overtakes happens on the straights because of DRS, but because of the tyres we see far more overtakes in the corners as well because the speed difference of the cars is large enough at times, and i don’t see that as artificial at all.

    #173244
    Profile photo of LL Jehto
    LL Jehto
    Member

    he talks about loss of excitement. As now you don’t have to overtake, you only have to DRS (remember, one exciting moment of the season was when Alonso had a failing DRS and had to really-overtake a slowing Hamilton in Malaysia).

    Before, there was boredom, oh yes there was! But one could always hope for some excitement.

    Even the reliability record of every team is damaging the excitement of the races: one moment of excitement use to be the DNF’s. Now we have 22-24 cars ending a race.

    At least Canada was good in that (a couple of accidents, some mecanichal failures I guess) but since the end of last year they even turn off the race (red flag) when it has the promise of some excitement (rain)

    #173245
    Profile photo of John H
    John H
    Participant

    Ned, I don’t think his comments are in the context of one bad race. The example I’m thinking of personally is when I had to explain to my German girlfriend why Schumi was being passed at the end of the Canadian GP and I then had to go into explaining DRS. When the non-F1 fans learn about these things they are flabagasted that F1 is still considered a ‘sport’

    Think about if in the tour de france, a rider 10 seconds behind the leading pack was suddenly given a shot of drugs… would this be considered a race?!

    Anyway, I’m pleased he’s speaking out but maybe his words are perhaps a bit too strong – although as LL Jehto is insinuating (I believe), it’s all about quantity and not quality at the moment and someone needs to speak out.

    #173246
    Profile photo of RIISE
    RIISE
    Member

    The thing that has made F1 boring was banning re-fueling. Of course people are going to disagree with that but I thought it tied everything that Motorsport stood for together and added an element of mystery to it with everyone wondering what a team will do next. I used to love watching a lighter car trying to build a 22 second gap to stay ahead of a car that is stopping 1 less time, the anticipation was amazing.

    Before we would see different fuel loads which would prompt numerous battles, major strategy calls and of course lighter cars overtaking heavier ones. (Or in some cases a Ferrari on a full tank overtaking a car on fumes)

    Now we just see everyone at a parity with the mentality of just best car wins which shouldn’t be like that. Sure the tyres bring an element of strategy into it but it’s not the same since in 5 races we will be back to having everyone on the same tyres again once the Pirelli’s are truly understood. Just like the Bridgestone’s.

    What Jacques is talking about with DRS is damn right, it is too easy and I feel no satisfaction when seeing a pass made with it, especially now they’ve added 2 DRS straights in which the driver can use it again once he’s made the pass. It’s all fake, personally I have always thought the 2009 KERS rule worked well, where teams had an option to use it and make a decision whether to have Power/Weight or have a lighter car. It divided the field brilliantly in my opinion. The option to add ballast to teams who don’t use it is frankly stupid and should be scrapped.

    #173247
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    The thing that has made F1 boring was banning re-fueling.

    RIISE, how I agree with thee on this particular point. I love pit stops and what they mean in a full-on race strategy. It’s war. Everything gets tense suddenly. I used to watch F1 and have no clue who’d re-fuel how much and when. There was a proper cluster of unknown and of trial&error involved in each race for each team, even at the back. I wish we could go back to these slightly hectic but oh so fun times.

    Let’s not forget the fuel hose incidents. Classic!

    I cannot agree with the overall boring claim about F1 these days. Sure, DRS is artificial. And two zones with one DRS detection is double as artificial if not bordering unfair play.

    However, it could very well provide F1 with a wider public when it comes to those watching the sport without being avid fanatics. Making overtaking easier and more achievable by anyone is certainly part of the entertainment for the larger audience.

    Whether we, emotionally invested F1 fans, will agree with these rather odd new technology games is unsure and still pending. It will take at least until the end of the season before I will voice a definitive opinion on DRS for example (although, obviously, I’m leaning towards: “No, thanks, I’d rather have a proper and fair fight.”)…

    #173248
    Profile photo of George
    George
    Participant

    I disagree on this one, I think the problem with DRS is that when a pass would be possible without using it, it makes it look easy. For example in Canada I doubt Schumacher would have kept Button behind him, and a lot of the overtakes in Turkey would have happened without the DRS. On the other hand DRS makes races like Barcelona interesting because without it Hamilton would have been nowhere near the back of Vettel, with it he was almost within reach, and that was with a small performance advantage.

    As far as I see it it does what it says on the tin, negates the effect of turbulence to enable the faster car to close up to the car in front, personally I dont see what’s so good about drivers needing 2 seconds pace advantage to be able to pass.

    P.S. I think you’re wrong about that ballast thing RIISE, pretty sure it was just a weight distribution issue in ’09.

    #173249
    Profile photo of LL Jehto
    LL Jehto
    Member

    you doubt, George, but now we will never know what would have happened if they were proper-racing, right?

    #173250
    Profile photo of George
    George
    Participant

    If they were proper racing Vettel would have won, I can say that much :)

    #173251
    Profile photo of sw6569
    sw6569
    Participant

    I think Jacques has a point. I don’t necessarily think that his point is correct – but certainly, in the context of Canada, the DRS zone was not configured correctly.

    When it is configured incorrectly, F1 is boring in terms of the overtaking being ‘unfair’. If its configured correctly, then it neutralises the aerodynamic effect and in effect brings back slipstreaming – which is how Villeneuve would have passed most cars anyway. Having said that, the show that F1 put on as a result of the DRS being configured incorrectly was still fantastic. While certain aspects of F1 might be considered a ‘borefest’ the show, as a whole, is not.

    [Although, as Valencia showed, this also depends on the track!]

    #173252
    Profile photo of Icthyes
    Icthyes
    Participant

    Well remember we’re talking about the guy who did this: http://youtu.be/Mp37Rl2J_fg

    I do think he has a point and although the DRS itself doesn’t bother me, its placing has been quite woeful in some of the races.

    And please no re-fuelling, no going back to saving fuels and tyres to do an extra lap.

    #173253
    Profile photo of sbl on tour
    sbl on tour
    Participant

    dont know what jv is on about, im not even going to find out as everything that guy comes up with is b.. balderdash

    #173254
    Profile photo of Girts
    Girts
    Participant

    I am not a fan of Villeneuve, rather the opposite. But this time I fully agree with him. Both about Hamilton and about the new rules, particularly the DRS. Drivers shouldn’t be penalised about mistakes, stewards should interfere only if someone has made something really dangerous (like Schumacher in Hungaroring 2010) or deliberately not avoided a collision.

    And overtaking doesn’t necessarily mean great racing. Sorry but I don’t see anything exciting about watching a Red Bull passing a Mercedes if the former is already one second per lap quicker anyway and gets a bonus of 15 kph additional speed advantage on the straight. It’s not great driving, it’s just overtaking. And what’s the use of 100 pit stops and 200 passes per race if TV coverage cannot show even half of it anyway? I don’t object to the DRS only on those tracks where overtaking is otherwise close to impossible like Hungaroring, Valencia nad Monaco. But otherwise I hope it disappears as soon as possible.

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