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What can be done about Marina Bay? (mainly, Turn 10, the Singapore Sling)

This topic contains 19 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys Prisoner Monkeys 3 years ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 20 total)
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  • #130132
    Profile photo of xxiinophobia
    xxiinophobia
    Member

    With all the talk of the kerbs at Turn 10 this weekend, I got to wondering what could be done about the layout. Well, one thing lead to another and before I knew it I was modifying the track layout.

    I’ve got a new layout for Singapore already done, but rather that immediately posting it, I’d like to see what F1 Fanatic’s best and brightest can come up with and get some discussion going.

    Rules: Umm… none, really.

    Guidelines: Ideally, the fiddly chicane at Turn 10 should be removed (as this is the point of the exercise), but do whatever you feel is right. If you have an idea that handles the issue another way, go for it.

    #179173
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    This:

    http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5106058

    The current circuit has a left at the end of Raffles Boulevard (turn seven), then a right onto Raffles Avenue, and another left onto St. Andrew’s Road, down to the hairpin.

    This configuration, however, goes straight ahead at Raffles Avenue, and down over the Esplanade Bridge. The entire western end of the circuit is taken in reverse; the hairpin at the bottom is now a right-hander onto Fullerton Road instead of a left-hander coming off Fullerton Road.

    The problem of the Singapore Sling chicane is solved because the drivers approach it at considerably lower speed than they currently do. The circuit then goes north along St. Andrew’s Road before turning onto Raffles Avenue and heading back to te waterfront.

    The major challenge of this reworking is that it requires a special flyover to be constructed, which could be expensive. And potentially dangerous, if a car should get airborne over the bridge (though catch fencing would go a lont way towards solving things.


    This is the second alternative:

    http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5106071

    This is perhaps the most practical solution. It bypasses the Singapore Sling by going around the block. All of the new corners would have adequate run-off areas. However, this this requires shutting down an even larger part of Singapore, and the race is unpopular with some locals because of the inconvenience it causes. The stretch along Raffles Boulevard is a problem, too. Although the map shows a straight road, the satellite reveals is weaves, which I’ve included in the plan. However, it would be high speed, so it would look spectaculat. It just wouldn’t be as conductive to overtaking.


    This is another possible solution:

    http://www.gmap-pedometer.com?r=5106077

    It bypasses the chicane by shortening the circuit. However, it would require a special section built over land held by the War Memorial, which would be unpopular, and the destruction of a bus stop. Finally, the FIA might have issues with the new bottom corner onto Fullerton Road.


    Finally, there’s thisL

    http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5106086

    It skips the chicane by cutting through the park adjacent to St. Andrew’s Road. however, destroying public space would not be too popular.


    And as a final note, I’ve cut out the chicanes along the waterfront. The don’t actually appear on Tilke’s original circuit design, which was something like this:

    http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5106090

    It was run clockwise, with the start down on Raffles Avenue.

    Secondly, I know the first section of the lap is inconsistent on each of the four proposals I made. The reason for this is that satellite photos were taken of the area before the circuit was built, so I have no path to follow.

    #179174
    Profile photo of Icthyes
    Icthyes
    Participant

    Number 2 wouldn’t be allowed, the Sling is there to slow the cars approaching the bridge and they’d be entering it even faster under that configuration.

    I think it just needs tidying up a bit, like so: http://twitpic.com/6l5ub4 It simplifies the track, takes the lap time down a bit and adds a possible overtaking spot or two whilst preserving the challenging bits of the circuit. I also envisage the Sling being slightly opened up, just enough so the curbs don’t have to be attacked but enough to force a slower entry into the corner. The four black lines are the DRS Zones by the way.

    #179175
    Profile photo of Lachie
    Lachie
    Member

    I want to know the extent of the road you can see at 14 seconds on this video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuC88NIpEW8

    Its not a direct route down St Andrews road to it but it seems to me that if the road is capable enough then they should just curve the barriers to guide into it for the purposes of someone with a stuck throttle or brake issues. The same thing people were suggesting for the harbour chicane at Monaco.

    #179176
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    Number 2 wouldn’t be allowed, the Sling is there to slow the cars approaching the bridge and they’d be entering it even faster under that configuration.

    No, the Sling is the chicane at turn 10. It’s there to stop cars from crashing headlong into the barrier on the outside of the circuit, because there is no runoff area to catch cars. The next two corners, turns 11 and 12, slow down cars for the Anderson Bridge.

    I want to know the extent of the road you can see at 14 seconds on this video

    It appears to be a road, not a driveway. It certainly would not be enough to catch cars because the straight down St. Andrew’s Road lets the cars get up to high speed.

    #179177
    Profile photo of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    Are we talking about improvements that might actually realistically be implemented, or are we not including realism in the bounds of this? The reason I ask is that the reason the sling is a fiddly triple chicane and not a corner is that there isn’t enough space to make the runoff there to allow cars to be coming in at a higher entry speed than they are already.

    #179178
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    And none of the suggestions so far have the cars entering the chicane any faster than they already do.

    #179179
    Profile photo of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    Quite a few do. You have to take into consideration the Vmax achieved just before you start to brake when designing runoff. So that section in itself should not allow drivers to hit a speed that is much higher than it already is

    #179180
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    Icthyes’ design changes nothing about the Sling.

    My first one has the cars going through the chicane in the opposite direction to what they currently do. My other three circumvent the Sling entirely.

    Those are the only proposals so far. So I’m a little confused when you say “quite a few” designs have the cars entering the chicane too quickly.

    #179181
    Profile photo of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    In its current guise, the sling serves a purpose. It’s not just there for the sake of being a corner. Its purpose is to slow the cars down by a lot. Imagine if you were on a quali lap and you had brakes failing. That’s how you have to define the runoff area requirements. As it stands your can’t add any runoff at that particular area. So you have to decrease the speed you EVER reach before you brake

    #179182
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    I know exactly what the Sling is there fore. And everyone who has put forth an idea of what to do about it has either a) reconfigured the circuit to avoid the Sling in such a way that is safe, or b) reconfigured the circuit in such a way that the Sling remains intact in its current form. No-one has removed the Sling without explanation or an alternative route that addresses the issue of the Sling being there to prevent collisions. For example, this route – http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=5106071 – extends the circuit so that the cars come into the junction of St. Andrew’s Road and Fullerton Road (the site of the Sling) from the west, rather than from the north. And there is ample room in the new corners for dedicated run-off.

    So I have no idea what you’re complaining about. We’re all doing exactly what you’re telling us that we’re not doing.

    #179183
    Profile photo of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    Ah; therein lies my misunderstanding. I thought your stated example reprofiled the Sling into a 90 degree. Apologies

    #179184
    Profile photo of xxiinophobia
    xxiinophobia
    Member

    I suspect Prisoner Monkeys may be after Hermann Tilke’s job the way he puts together so many layouts (not just for this thread, but I’ve seen it on the main site too). :D

    Anyway, my idea is this:

    http://twitpic.com/6s19d2 – existing layout in grey, concept in green

    I hope you’ll forgive the unusual method of depiction; I’ve never been satisfied with my results on gmap-pedometer as I don’t think I’ve ever figured out how to work it quite right.

    Concerns are:

    - Run-off and tightness of corner at Turn 9

    – Approach and Run-off at Turn 13, which would need to where one of PM’s ideas cuts across War Memorial land and a bus stop. I looked at this corner in Street View and the entry looks very narrow

    I also removed the two bridge crossings in Sector 2 (Fullerton Rd and Esplanade Dr), but in hindsight this bit could possibly go back in as is. The removal of that area I think perhaps changes the character of the circuit too much, which is one of the things most tend to like about the track.

    I also deleted four corners at the start of Sector 3, making a curved straight between the existing Turns 14 and 20. I’ve never particularly liked the section of Turns 16 through 19, as I’ve long found it too busy and bothersome.

    #179185
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    No, it’s just a hobby of mine.

    #179186
    Profile photo of W-K
    W-K
    Participant

    And there was me thinking that Hermann was going to get the sack. Oh, well, back to the dreams.

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