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F1

Public Group active 32 minutes ago

F1 discussion

What happened to catching / outbraking?

This topic contains 23 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Doance Doance 3 years, 5 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 24 total)
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  • #129156
    Avatar of Doance
    Doance
    Participant

    How come the cars dont catch up to cars that are a few seconds in front and how come outbraking doesnt happen anymore? Ive been watching some races from 1997 and what they do is they can reel in the car a few seconds ahead and then brake a few metres after them to get past. I dont think this happens much anymore, why? Why do they need DRS and Kers when they didnt need it in the 90′s? Nowadays they never catch up to cars that are 4 seconds ahead they just change a few hundreds of a second here and there and I dont see much outbraking.

    #165682
    Avatar of AndrewTanner
    AndrewTanner
    Participant

    The sport is shifting ore and more towards aerodynamics. Thats the battle ground now. Plus drivers need to conserve their tyres more so than ever.

    #165683
    Avatar of sw6569
    sw6569
    Participant

    braking points are much smaller now as well – also, in 1997 there was often a speed difference between the cars doing the overtaking. The cars are much closer in performance now than they were in the 90′s

    #165684
    Avatar of Doance
    Doance
    Participant

    Well I was thinking they could remove some of the technology but then again F1 should be the highest and leading motorsport for technology so I dont know

    #165685
    Avatar of Icthyes
    Icthyes
    Participant

    Since F1 is so interested in being road-relevant these days (you know, with KERS that is actually inferior to the stuff already in cars), can any of the teams explain the real-world application of their aerodynamics?

    #165686
    Avatar of karan01
    karan01
    Member

    I don’t think “getting side by side, speed down the inside, slam the brakes and park the car on the apex” counts as sportsmanlike racing.

    #165687
    Avatar of Asanator
    Asanator
    Participant

    Err, the block pass has been a traditional racing move since racing began? what on earth isn’t sporting about it!

    #165688
    Avatar of karan01
    karan01
    Member

    Because you just forced a gap to appear, and you both probably lost 1 second in that corner. It isn’t really an overtake, it is more of a “I am here, now you can’t take the corner”

    #165689
    Avatar of George
    George
    Participant

    If the overtaker has slowed sufficiently to block the apex (and hasn’t gone steaming wide), then that’s a textbook overtake. Unless you’re doing a Ferrari, making the opponent lose 1sec is a good thing.

    #165690
    Avatar of David-A
    David-A
    Participant

    @karan01 – next, we’ll be condemning actually driving on the track at all during a race because if an overtake happens, the driver who lost a position might get upset and cry.

    #165691
    Avatar of Hare
    Hare
    Participant

    The sport is shifting ore and more towards aerodynamics.

    You remember the cars of mid naughties? Dumbo ears Honda? The McLaren that looked like it could drive though cheese and give you a nice assortment of shavings to put on your salad?

    I would say we’ve moved to the very edge of the aerodynamic range and now we’re cutting back in.

    #165692
    Avatar of Fixy
    Fixy
    Participant

    @David A – LOL

    #165693
    Avatar of shahril
    shahril
    Member

    Thatís the difference between MotoGP & F1. The overtaking and racing in MotoGP is far more thrilling & enjoying comparable to F1 nowadays. Frankly speaking, I almost fall asleep watching most F1 race nowadays.

    For me the ratios of controllable driving power/factor for each motoracing that measure the excitement in racing. Last time the driving power in F1 is by far beyond human control and thatís make only best driver lead through the pack. The guts to push beyond the driving limit that measure the Champ.

    Stop to limit the F1 engine power or throw away the aerodynamic if we do really want to see such comeback of thrill in F1. What is that if it really you could flat out the paddle in most of the corners!!! (should I say what the difference now between a Hotwheel toy car racing). Thatís overtaking only happen/possible on hairpin corner nowadays mostly. Almost impossible to see overtaking in parabolic corner nowadays which indeed more thrilling for me. Given more drive power beyond aerodynamic grip, it will be a measure of skill & guts to go beyond the cornering & overtaking limit.

    The un-durable new Pirelli tyres has made things worse for me. Why should driver concentrate more of taking care of the tyres instead of racing & overtaking madly on track. Do you favor more ďhonorable pitlaneĒ overtaking instead of on track itself? Mostly we see driver tend to pullback for the sake of ďtyre preservationĒ instead of keep pushing for overtaking.

    Again comeback to MotoGP, thatís how only the best rider manage to really push in the corner, to overtake or even comeback from behind to win. And thatís really what makes such great rider Rossi, Lorenzo & Stoner with their superb riding & overtaking.

    If anyhow safety would be the question, I guess we have enough precaution nowadays not to start worrying about such driving power. Not too pity that MotoGP rider has nothing to compare to F1 carbon fibre monocoque but still manage to push for the thrill.

    So much of off-track tactics nowadays has stolen all the racing thrill nowadays. Forgot all the sportsmanlike & tactics behind but in the end we still hail Ayrton Senna as the legend.

    Would the driving skill ever matter nowadays, thatís why I doubt we would ever found the next ultimate driver ever in F1. Would you suggest any current champs as the next legend in F1 or so to said racing?

    P/S: Not to be bias indeed I did miss F1 thrills during Schumacher & Hakinnen era with such racing thrill and no I did fanatic in MotoGP more compare to F1 (Iím fanatic in anything with speed instead).

    #165694
    Avatar of Doance
    Doance
    Participant

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dal1L_OhsvM

    Here, I uploaded a video of what I’m talking about. Back then there were several of these each race. What is with the speed difference? I dont think the Prost is faster car than the Mclaren.

    #165695
    Avatar of AndrewTanner
    AndrewTanner
    Participant

    @Hare – I would say that although the cars are less aero-heavy than say 2008 the focal point for the teams is no less. Just the fact that the FIA put strict aero rules in place for 2009 onwards and accomodated DRS this year surely means that aero is the ‘in-thing’ these days, especially as were in the middle of an engine freeze.

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