Group Admins

  • Profile picture of Keith Collantine

Group Mods

  • Profile picture of damonsmedley
  • Profile picture of Bradley Downton

F1

Public Group active 8 hours, 31 minutes ago

F1 discussion

What will Vettel have to do to gain any recognition

This topic contains 48 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of Keith Collantine Keith Collantine 2 years ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 49 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #132091
    Profile photo of mnmracer
    mnmracer
    Participant

    Yesterday Keith posted the results of Belgian GP Driver of the Weekend vote, won by Button with 52%, followed by Vettel at 20%.

    The peculiar respect that drivers are being given for their performances, first popped up its head at the Bahrain Grand Prix. In Australia, Button won convincingly in the fastest car of the weekend from front row, and was voted best driver. In China, Nico Rosberg won convincingly from pole in the fastest car, and was voted best driver. Along comes Bahrain, and despite Vettel doing the exact same thing as Button and Rosberg before him, winning convincingly from pole, the vote goes to Räikkönen. Next weekend, Maldonado wins the GP of Spain in the same way, and he gets the vote.

    Apparently the argument was that Räikkonen impressed more because he fought his way through the field. Same argument later used for Alonso who inheritted the win after Vettel and Grosjean had technical issues in Valencia.

    Along comes Belgium, a race that many believe was Vettel’s best performance yet, and had all the elements of the Bahrain and Valencia Grand Prix. He fought his way forward from a bad starting position. He did so in a slower car. He gained a bit from other’s issues (like Räikkönen and Alonso), but was there to pick up the points. And the race was won by a guy from pole in the fastest car. And who gets the vote? The guy on pole with the fastest car!

    * Unlike Button, Rosberg, Maldonado, Webber, Hamilton and Alonso in much the same situation, Vettel does not get recognition for winning convincingly in the fastest car from the front.
    * Unlike Perez, Räikkonen and Alonso in much the same situation, Vettel does not get recognition for fighting his way from the back in a slower car.
    * Alonso does not get any less recognition for favoritism in the Ferrari team, so that is not a valid reason either why Vettel does not get recognition.

    So let me ask you then, what does Sebastian Vettel need to do to get any recognition?
    Is there really such a strong bias here that nothing he does is or will ever be good enough?

    I hope I can get some honest answers here, as it’s a truly astonishing behavior.

    #210435
    Profile photo of matt90
    matt90
    Participant

    He didn’t win convincingly from pole- that suggests that he wasn’t nearly passed by Raikkonen.

    “Unlike Perez, Räikkonen and Alonso in much the same situation, Vettel does not get recognition for fighting his way from the back in a slower car.”
    He wasn’t in a slower car though. Not slower than any of the cars he finished in front of anyway.

    However, I see your point. I think it comes down to a combination of things. Largely bias against Vettel having seen him do much the same as Bahrain all last year- people don’t want to be reminded of that. Also, large support for Kimi impressing soon after his return.

    #210436
    Profile photo of Slr
    Slr
    Participant

    I think Vettel does get recognition, I think most people know that Vettel is one of the best around today. If everyone on this website ranked every driver in terms of overall ability, he would be ranked in the top 3 or 4 on most people’s lists.

    Vettel was consistently in the top three in the driver of the weekend polls last year, so many people do still recognise his achievements. Maybe he deserved to win more driver of the weekend polls last year, but when you make it look easy, it is harder to appreciate when Vettel did last year.

    #210437
    Profile photo of Girts
    Girts
    Participant

    I think the answer is pretty simple and it doesn’t have anything to do with Vettel. People usually vote for the driver, who has surprised most during the weekend (examples – Perez at Sepang or Monza, Raikkonen in Bahrain). If there have been no big surprises, then the winner of the race gets voted the DotW.

    Vettel is the double world champion now and he has always been one of the favourites for the title this year. Although it’s obvious that he doesn’t have the superior car that was at his disposal in 2011, I don’t think there are many fans, who are surprised, when Seb does well in 2012.

    I believe that the latest vote kind of proves my point. Hamilton won the Italian GP from the pole position convincingly, yet Perez is leading the vote. And this clearly isn’t a Mexican website.

    #210438
    Profile photo of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    He needs to start dead last, charge through the field in the rain in a dog of a car, then win by a minute.

    On a more serious note, it’s not that Vettel doesn’t get any recognition, but rather that whenever he wins from pole, there’s someone else who does a tremendous job, thus he always comes of second best.

    #210439
    Profile photo of andae23
    andae23
    Participant

    I remember arguing about this at the Bahrain and Valencia GPs. At those GPs, it was clear to me that Vettel was the best driver and people just didn’t seem to notice that at all, especially in Valencia, where he was a second a lap quicker in the opening phase! Alonso got voted best driver of the weekend then, which is really mind boggling: he qualified 11th!

    Just to draw my point to the Belgium GP: he did deliver a remarkable race, but I didn’t vote for him simply because Button did so much better. Just like Valencia and Bahrain, I voted for the driver of who I thought was the best driver of the entire weekend: for Valencia and Bahrain I voted Vettel, for Spa I voted Button. I can see why you’re upset about this, but you have to admit that this round’s ‘Best Driver’ votes saw Button coming out on top. You simply can’t fund the Spa poll for Vettel-discrimination.

    #210440
    Profile photo of Estesark
    Estesark
    Participant

    Interesting thread. Although I think Vettel does not always get the credit he deserves, perhaps because of his 2011 performances, it could be argued that there are mitigating circumstances in the races you mentioned.

    In Bahrain, Vettel’s win was not a dominant one. Räikkönen was faster in the final stint but couldn’t get past – he had one opportunity, made a poor decision, and then had to put up with Vettel’s dirty air for the rest of the race. Räikkönen also picked up his first podium since he returned to the sport, undoubtedly giving him a boost in the vote.

    In Valencia, he was dominant, and would have won by a mile had he not had the alternator problem. That was enough for me, personally, to vote for him, but many people base their votes on the final result, which is their prerogative, considering F1 is a team sport where reliability is one of the most important aspects.

    And in Belgium, I think he would have won the vote had he put in the exact same performance but finished second to Alonso, but Button had been struggling for most of the season, so his win was somewhat surprising. His huge lead in qualifying time also gained him credit.

    #210441
    Profile photo of Kingshark
    Kingshark
    Participant

    I remember arguing about this at the Bahrain and Valencia GPs. At those GPs, it was clear to me that Vettel was the best driver and people just didn’t seem to notice that at all, especially in Valencia, where he was a second a lap quicker in the opening phase! Alonso got voted best driver of the weekend then, which is really mind boggling: he qualified 11th!

    That wasn’t his fault. Ferrari made a mistake in qualifying thinking they could go through Q2 on primes, it didn’t work out. Nonetheless, did you actually see Alonso’s drive on Sunday?

    Vettel was impressive in Valencia, but not as Godly as some make it out to be. Let me remind you that unlike Bahrain, Red Bull were clearly the fastest car there. Webber was even lapping equal lap times to Vettel in clean air, charged from 19 to 4 because he had a car problem in qualifying.

    I personally rate his drives at Bahrain and Belgium better than Europe. At Spa he was just pure entertainment in a car that isn’t suppose to be overtaking.

    #210442
    Profile photo of bag0
    bag0
    Participant

    Recognition will come with time, but there will always be malignant people. Vettel’s case is simmilar to Button’s, they cant do anything to shut the critics up.

    #210443
    Profile photo of xjr15jaaag
    xjr15jaaag
    Participant

    It’s quite interesting: when he wins, it’s the car; when he doesn’t it’s because he is an awful driver.
    That appears to be the general consensus

    #210444
    Profile photo of xjr15jaaag
    xjr15jaaag
    Participant

    @kingshark
    Alonso should have disputed ferraris decision

    #210445
    Profile photo of magon4
    magon4
    Participant

    I’d noticed this on this website since 2010. Vettel rarely gets voted driver of the weekend when he wins a race. Would be interesting to find out the ratio of DotW wins to race wins from race winning drivers since 2010.

    #210446
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    @mnmracer

    I for one, am a declared Vettel “hater” and I don´t deny it. Proof of it is that ALL my comments get moderated since I tend to point out the “bad” things about SV and RBR and it seems that either some MOD. or Keith find that annoying. That being said, I will just say this: Vettel is good… I´ll give him that much “recognition” but he just doesn´t do it for me. I guess that 2010 and mostly 2011 have a lot to do with this. I say mostly 2011 because I hated last season… From an engineer´s point of view, it might have been great because we all saw what an incredible machine the RB7 was but, from a racing fan´s (I consider myself to be one) point of view it was crap because all he had to do was steer and brake since he was always on pole. I know the Vettel fans will jump and say that it takes “skills” to deliver pole laps as Vettel did but hey, I am willing to bet my nuts that if Hamilton or Alonso would have been driving an RB7 the outcome would have been the same… a pole record-breaking season and a championship. So you see, the truth of the matter is that SV has never had “bad” equipment. He has had some very, very, very good cars… On the other hand, all the other drivers that you mentioned, don´t have the best cars and yet they deliver awesome performances. I mean seriously…. a Sauber coming in second at Monza? Kimi coming in second after 2 years away, Alonso delivering awesome performances in the begining of the season with what was generally voted the worst car of the top teams (the car has gotten better but it still isn´t the best one), etc… I could go on and on but it would just fuel a debate that would get me banned again from the site.

    You mentioned Vettel´s Valencia drive as being top notch, being a second a lap quicker than everybody else, etc… And I will just say this: It is “easier” to drive on a track like Valencia when you get no wheelspin due to torque mapping! That might be the second a lap quicker we all saw… Alonso “inheriting” the win is not his fault… The Renault engine failed, simple as that(anyways, he started 11th for God´s sake, second place would have made me very happy!) Notice I don´t mention Grosjean… why? because FA got past him before his engine failed also…

    I guess that although he might come off as arrogant or even pretencious if you´d like, Fernando explains it best…. I have the same opinion he has and most of the persons that don´t give SV his “recognition” will probably agree with what Fernando says… I know i will get the “Monza in the toro-rosso” arguement thrown at me but I have my opinion on that and will not discuss it because it would get too loud and I really want to avoid getting banned because although my comments get moderated, sometimes they take less time and I´m able to exchange thoughts with other F1 enthusiasts and it feels great to discuss and exchange opinions with other that are as passionate about F1 as I am… So to try and keep it short, I leave you this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEzqCcF2mps

    and as a bonus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b5VfyKhxWQ&feature=related

    BTW, I do not agree with the title, FA is not laughing off anything!!

    #210447
    Profile photo of mclaren
    mclaren
    Participant

    Bias-people cant accept the fact he’s already a legend aged 25! This is from a Hamilton fan

    #210448
    Profile photo of the_sigman
    the_sigman
    Participant

    @andae23 Alonso qualified 11th at Valencia, but just 2 tenths of the top time in Q2, so it wasn’t too bad.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 49 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.