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F1 discussion

Who deserved the drivers championships (last 20 seasons)

This topic contains 40 replies, has 20 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Keith Campbell Keith Campbell 4 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 41 total)
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  • #258457
    Avatar of Keith Campbell
    Keith Campbell
    Participant

    Just curious to see who people think deserved the drivers championships over the last 20 years, as opposed to who actually won them. In some cases they will be the same, but where do you think the best, most deserving driver lost out due to bad luck, circumstances, or just having a weaker car/team?

    Here’s my take on it, with actual winners alongside for comparison. Please take my suggestions with a pinch of salt as some seasons i didn’t follow that closely and some i’ve forgotten most of, it’s just for fun ;)

    Year Actual Winner KeithEdin
    1994 Michael Schumacher Michael Schumacher
    1995 Michael Schumacher Michael Schumacher
    1996 Damon Hill Michael Schumacher
    1997 Jacques Villeneuve Michael Schumacher
    1998 Mika Hakkinen Mika Hakkinen
    1999 Mika Hakkinen Michael Schumacher
    2000 Michael Schumacher Michael Schumacher
    2001 Michael Schumacher Michael Schumacher
    2002 Michael Schumacher Michael Schumacher
    2003 Michael Schumacher Kimi Raikkonen
    2004 Michael Schumacher Michael Schumacher
    2005 Fernando Alonso Fernando Alonso
    2006 Fernando Alonso Fernando Alonso
    2007 Kimi Raikkonen Lewis Hamilton
    2008 Lewis Hamilton Robert Kubica
    2009 Jenson Button Jenson Button
    2010 Sebastian Vettel Fernando Alonso
    2011 Sebastian Vettel Sebastian Vettel
    2012 Sebastian Vettel Fernando Alonso
    2013 Sebastian Vettel Sebastian Vettel

    My version would leave the championship table for the last 20 seasons as follows:

    Championship table Number
    1 Michael Schumacher 9
    2 Fernando Alonso 4
    3 Sebastian Vettel 2
    4 Mika Hakkinen 1
    Kimi Raikkonen 1
    Robert Kubica 1
    Jenson Button 1

    If i get enough replies i might form an average ‘number of championships per driver’ just out of curiousity. Apologies if this type of post has been made before on here, i’m still relatively new to the forum so will have missed it if this has been covered already (and it probably has in some form).

    #258458
    Avatar of MazdaChris
    MazdaChris
    Participant

    The person who deserved to win the championship was the one who won the championship, in every year bar none.

    #258459
    Avatar of Keith Campbell
    Keith Campbell
    Participant

    Well that’s one way of looking at it true. I suppose i could have phrased the question, ‘who was the best driver of the year’ in each season. But was trying to avoid completely random answers like saying for example Jules Bianchi in 2013 – which could be right but difficult to put in context.

    #258461
    Avatar of Nick
    Nick
    Participant

    I think a more direct way of putting it would be ‘who do you feel should have won the title’. For me, it’d be like this:

    1994 Michael Schumacher Michael Schumacher, with more races to spare
    1995 Michael Schumacher Michael Schumacher
    1996 Damon Hill Damon Hill
    1997 Jacques Villeneuve Michael Schumacher
    1998 Mika Hakkinen Mika Hakkinen
    1999 Mika Hakkinen Eddie Irvine
    2000 Michael Schumacher Michael Schumacher
    2001 Michael Schumacher Michael Schumacher
    2002 Michael Schumacher Michael Schumacher
    2003 Michael Schumacher Juan Pablo Montoya (Raikkonen a close 2nd, Schumacher’s most political title)
    2004 Michael Schumacher Michael Schumacher
    2005 Fernando Alonso Fernando Alonso (Raikkonen 2nd, but McLaren..)
    2006 Fernando Alonso Michael Schumacher (Alonso 2nd, Raikkonen if the car wasn’t so damn unreliable)
    2007 Kimi Raikkonen Kimi Raikkonen (After losing out on 3 titles due to largely external factors, I don’t care he had a little luck on his side here – Alonso and Hamilton could also be compared to Piquet and Mansell, yet few claim Prost’s title was luck)
    2008 Lewis Hamilton Felipe Massa
    2009 Jenson Button Sebastian Vettel (If that was a 20 race season, it would have probably happened)
    2010 Sebastian Vettel Fernando Alonso
    2011 Sebastian Vettel Sebastian Vettel
    2012 Sebastian Vettel Fernando Alonso
    2013 Sebastian Vettel Sebastian Vettel

    #258463
    Avatar of OmarR-Pepper
    OmarR-Pepper
    Participant

    The champion is the champion for all of the reasons combined. Maybe this year can be the exception, I mean, if we calculate the points that should be with “normal points” vs “AbuDhabi points”, and if we see the champion could be another one if it weren’t for those double points, only then I would say “another driver deserves the championship”, but in fair play situations, the champion is the top scorer. This year, because of the domination played by Mercedes (and something gives me the impression Lewis has already cracked Nico’s confidence) I guess the WDC will be given long before the AbuDhabi scam.

    #258464
    Avatar of Nick
    Nick
    Participant

    Double points are as much a part of the regulations as anything else, though. And the FIA has shown (2003, cough) to be willing to change those regulations or how they’re policed. That could be a factor in how people view these things.

    For instance, Schumacher’s disqualification in 1994 was rather odd, since it reeked of the FIA wanting to punish Benetton for not being able to prove their car was illegal. The Barge Board debacle at Malaysia 1999 would probably not have happened were it a Stewart or a Prost with faulty barge boards. Then we have the 2003 change in Michelin tyres, which regardless of intent helped Schumacher and Ferrari a lot (as no other title contenders were running Bridgestone still).

    There have been some weird things happening during championships that could have decided the title off the track, which is technically what upsets people about Abu Double as well.

    #258465
    Avatar of Keith Campbell
    Keith Campbell
    Participant

    Edit – Actually i supposed you couldn’t say Schumacher deserved the title in 1997 given that it was quite a clear attempt to take JV out of the race, even if MS was probably the best driver over the season. So i will return JV his title ;)

    Maybe i should have just asked “who was the best driver” per season rather than “who deserved the title”, as the consensus seems to be that the one with the most points is the “deserved” champion (which is fair enough). Apart from maybe at the end of this season.

    #258468
    Avatar of Robbie
    Robbie
    Participant

    Very debatable stuff really. I think Hill was the better driver in 94 because he didn’t crash in the last race like MS did, and got whacked by MS anyway. And that Benetton was rife with illegalities all season. In a legal car MS wouldn’t have achieved the numbers he did that year. But I often bring things down to how drivers handled the pressure when it was at it’s greatest. And MS crashed.

    So I think DH was the better driver and the more deserving in 94, JV was stronger than MS in the end so the better and more deserving driver, and I think FM also did everything right in that last race when the pressure was at it’s greatest while LH did everything to lose it and very nearly did.

    #258469
    Avatar of Iestyn Davies
    Iestyn Davies
    Participant

    I started a similar thread to this, and this is how I would respond, which is different to most as I see Senna’s death as unlucky – and surely the rules would have changed as they did after Ratzenberger’s death (also unlucky):

    94- Senna (If Hill took it close, then Senna would have won it. I echo @npf1 here on the illegality factor)
    95- Schumacher (The last season I didn’t see live, but I imagine an epic battle between Schumi and Senna)
    96- Senna (In the next two seasons, Williams have a bigger car advantage than in 1994/5)
    97- Senna (Retires after 1998 rule changes are announced, Schumi an impressive 2nd with Ferrari)
    98- Hakkinen (Schumi still took it close)
    99- Hakkinen (Would have been a great fight with Schumacher, and less mistakes from Mika)
    00- Schumacher (Great title fight)
    01- Schumacher
    02- Schumacher
    03- Montoya (Williams back him as number 1; Raikkonen a close 2nd, Schumi a close 3rd)
    04- Schumacher
    05- Raikkonen (Less engine blows hand this one to Kimi)
    06- Alonso
    07- Alonso (Alonso gets his number one status and agrees to leave – Kimi and Lewis are a close 2nd/3rd)
    08- Raikkonen (Lewis 2nd, Massa 3rd, Kubica 4th – great season from him, also in 2010)
    09- Button (Honda finally win the title, announce sale to Mercedes. Vettel 2nd)
    10- Vettel (with more reliability. Close fight for 2nd between Alonso, Hamilton and Webber)
    11- Vettel
    12- Hamilton (Finally Lewis gets some luck and wins for McLaren. Alonso 2nd, Vettel 3rd. Hulk wins in Brazil)
    13- Vettel (But no rule change to stifle the championship. Alonso 2nd, Kimi 3rd)
    14- Hamilton (Like Mansell, Lewis walks to a deserved 2nd title, considered by many to be overdue)
    15- Hamilton goes into the season as title favourite to match Vettel with 3 titles and more wins.

    Total
    Schumacher – 5 (1/4 of the available titles)
    Senna – 3 (6 in total)
    Vettel – 3
    Hakkinen – 2
    Raikkonen – 2
    Alonso – 2
    Hamilton – 2
    Montoya – 1
    Button – 1

    #258470
    Avatar of Bradley Downton
    Bradley Downton
    Participant

    @fastiesty – I agree with you 100% on Senna.

    I was going to comment earlier but must have closed the window before posting!

    94- Senna
    95- Schumacher
    96- Senna
    97- Senna
    98- Hakkinen
    99- Hakkinen
    00- Schumacher
    01- Schumacher
    02- Schumacher
    03- Raikkonen
    04- Schumacher
    05- Alonso
    06- Alonso
    07- Hamilton
    08- Kubica
    09- Button
    10- Alonso
    11- Vettel
    12- Hamilton
    13- Vettel

    #258471
    Avatar of Iestyn Davies
    Iestyn Davies
    Participant

    May I also add that this shows what can be defined as ‘generations’: Senna extending from the oldest one first (-97), before Schumi/Hakkinen (95-04), Montoya/Kimi/Alonso/Button/Massa (03-09), Hamilton/Vettel (10-15).. who can be in the next one? Hulkenberg? Ricciardo? or will it pass over them..

    It’s fair to say that Hamilton/Vettel/Rosberg can go for a few more years in top equipment (like Schumi did), extending their era and hindering their direct competition (Hulkenberg, Grosjean, Maldonado, Kobayashi, di Resta falling out etc.), before the next dominant crops appear (Ricciardo, Bianchi, Bottas, Perez; Magnussen, Vandoorne, Kvyat etc.) that get into the top teams.

    Kubica is unlucky to fall out of the current generation, but his place as ‘unlucky top driver’ is surely to be followed by Hulk and Grosjean, or similar drop out di Resta.

    #258472
    Avatar of Iestyn Davies
    Iestyn Davies
    Participant

    Nice to hear @bradley13! It’s also fair to say that some years are pretty much the same for most people, while certain years are close for everyone, like 2003, 2005, 2007-8, 2010 and 2012. That’s quite weighted in favour of recent years, too, apart from being every other year since the points changed to reward wins less – so do we really need as many gimmicks?

    Maybe 2015 will be a close fight between Mercedes and Red Bull in that flavour (once Renault catch up). But 1994 is a mess for anyone to sort out, including the FIA!

    #258476
    Avatar of matt90
    matt90
    Participant

    2006 Fernando Alonso Michael Schumacher (Alonso 2nd, Raikkonen if the car wasn’t so damn unreliable)

    Raikkonen also needed a faster car didn’t he?

    #258477
    Avatar of Adam Blocker
    Adam Blocker
    Participant

    94- Damon Hill (Senna dies, and Schumi is DSQ from the Champ. for the incident in Adelaide)
    95- Michael Schumacher
    96- Damon Hill
    97- Jacques Villenuve (As weak of a WDC as he is, he did deserve the 97 crown)
    98- Mika Hakkinen
    99- Eddie Irvine (really close with Hakkinen, all he needed was one additional point & Schumi to pull over in Japan)
    00- Michael Schumacher
    01- Michael Schumacher
    02- Michael Schumacher
    03- Michael Schumacher (The only reason the Mclaren was fast was because they threw caution to the wind)
    04- Michael Schumacher
    05- Fernando Alonso
    06- Fernando Alonso
    07- Lewis Hamilton (no gearbox problems in Brazil)
    08- Lewis Hamilton (he & Massa’s luck balanced out)
    09- Sebastian Vettel
    10- Fernando Alonso (didn’t try to cover Mark in Abu Dhabi)
    11- Sebastian Vettel
    12- Sebastian Vettel (he really proved his worth in 2012)
    13- Sebastian Vettel
    14- Lewis Hamilton (so far)

    I didn’t account for injuries/deaths. These things happen.
    Senna probably would have won where the Williams team did, Schumi would have won 1999, and Robert Kubica might have picked up a title driving for Red Bull in ’12 or ’13.

    #258478
    Avatar of Nick
    Nick
    Participant

    @matt90 I may or may not have confused 2006 with 2005 there…

    If we’re talking ‘no accidents’ and perhaps even ‘ideal scenarios’, I’m going to go with this.

    94 – Senna
    95 – Schumacher
    96 – Senna
    97 – Senna (retires)
    98 – Schumacher (the DC incident at Spa didn’t happen)
    99 – Schumacher (The Silverstone accident didn’t happen)
    00 – Schumacher
    01 – Schumacher
    02 – Schumacher (retires on request of his family)
    03 – Raikkonen (MP4/18 pulls through)
    04 – Barrichello (remained at Ferrari)
    05 – Raikkonen
    06 – Alonso (at Renault)
    07 – Alonso (at McLaren)
    08 – Massa
    09 – Vettel
    10 – Alonso
    11 – Vettel
    12 – Hamilton
    13 – Vettel

    Rumors of Montoya going to Ferrari trace back to about 2002, I think LdM would have had him replace Schumacher, who would have retired sooner had he won titles with Ferrari sooner.

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