F1 Fanatic

Hopefully this isn’t too close to the main article Keith wrote but I think it’s a big enough subplot and it would become congested amongst the debate over the WMSC’s decision.

Ever since the Schumacher years, Ferrari have tainted themselves with the way they run their campaign for the world championship. They’ve had a clear #1 policy, switched their drivers around numerous times, sometimes even for the benefit of just one point and never been apologetic for treating the fans like muppets, without whom there’d be precious little of those millions and millions of dollars they get from the sport.

When Schumacher left, it seemed that it was his contagion and not Ferrari’s. Aside from fixing Massa’s pit-stop strategy (to a slower one) at Interlagos in 2007 they’ve had no direct interference with the race result (and even then, Massa would have been happy to slow down if it had been necessary). That and China 2008 were mostly understood and accepted by F1 fans.

And then, no matter what you think of Hockenheim 2010, it went back to its old ways of interfering with a result. There may have been far more point to it than in Austria 2002, but the principle was the same: for the sake of a few points they fixed a race which was going to have a heartening end (Barrichello beating Schumacher fair and square and Massa’s recovery from his crash). And who’s fault, according to Ferrari? Ours. We’re too stupid to appreciate what really matters. We’re too stupid, in fact, to even tell that they “didn’t” interfere this time.

So basically, my question is: how long and what would Ferrari have to do before it can legitimately present itself as a sporting team befitting its history and legacy? And is the presence of Alonso part of the problem, or the problem itself?

Personally I think it won’t happen until there’s a fundamental change in policy, including the personnel at the helm, and certainly not whilst Alonso’s around.

I think Hockenheim was ugly but it was born out of desperation to get back in the title race more than out of the same kind of no.1 treatment Schumacher had. Schumacher had priority in testing, T-car set up and every aspect of the team was geared to his success.

Although its clear that Alonso will be treated as lead driver for the remainder of the season, as Kimi was afer Monza 2007 or Massa after Spa 2008 (in both cases their team mate was still mathematically in the title race) in the early part of the season there was no special treatment for Alonso, he was/is just faster.

I think the comparison with Austria 2002 isn’t really fair, since in 2002 Rubens was Schumacher’s only challenger in a year when Ferrari were completely dominant, where as this year Ferrari were outsiders for the title and Massa was out of the hunt meaning there were under a lot of pressure to maximise the points for their one WDC hope. Also in Austria Rubens had been faster and beaten Schumacher fair and square where as although Massa drove well in front of Alonso he was outqualified by 0.5s, slower in practice and slower in the race and only got in front because Vettel blocked Alonso off the start.

I can see why people dislike Ferrari, I loathed Ferrari during the Schumacher years and thought they often went beyond what was acceptable but Austria 2002 was so unpalatble because of the way it was done and the way it was so uneccessary. The principle of team orders wasn’t the problem I think its unfair to compare the two incidents as like for like.

I think Ferrari have become much more open since the end of 2006 and that makes them still much more likable. The problem is though is often people are taking their preconceptions of Ferrari and Alonso (the team/driver combo everyone loves to hate) and making Hockenheim out to be worse than it was. The are a lot of people who can’t wait to drag write a load of “same old Ferrari always cheating” articles

Ads21 beat me to the point it would now seem!

“So basically, my question is: how long and what would Ferrari have to do before it can legitimately present itself as a sporting team befitting its history and legacy?”

Well, first we have to talk about the history of Ferrari itself. I’m young, but basing my opinion on the documentaries about the ‘old days’ of F1, you can’t say that Ferrari have ever based their image on simpathy. Ferrari is not Minardi.
The Old Man himself wasn’t particularly pleasant (although very warm-hearted), he was a tough man with the main idea of running a successful team. If you win, your brand is stronger and you sell more cars, and I don’t think Ferrari customers care much about sportmanship.
That’s the reason why he always wanted a #1 and a #2 driver, to enhance the chances of victory for the TEAM. A lot of people say that there is also the WCC for the teams, but generally it’s considered nothing more than a consolation prize.
I know I put it very rough and it may seem i’m a supporter of team orders. On the contrary, i’d like to see more in-team battles because they spice up the championship, but my name isn’t Domenicali and i don’t have to manage a team worth some hundreds of millions of euros, and i know that the 90% of Ferrari supporters prefer a WDC victory than an interesting fight.

“And is the presence of Alonso part of the problem, or the problem itself?”
Alonso isn’t the most pleasant person in the paddock, for sure, but not the direct problem. Ferrari already wanted a #1 driver after the disappointing Raikkonen (i believe they never thought Massa could be a real WDC contender before 08) and Santander wanted a first class team where their protége could have the maximum chance of victory, maybe also written on the contract.

Ichyes, in your first post you mention ‘since the Schumacher years’ implying that the team have been underhand or un-sporting. Schumacher left 5 years ago and I struggle to think of impropriety since (apart from Germany where they were nothing more than obvious). Other teams have been involved in: 1) the worst cheating scandal in F1 with a driver deliberately crashing. 2) a team involved in 3 consecutive years of breaking the rules. 3) The president of the FIA having a clear and public vendetta against a team boss while accusing others of being idiots. This season we have had a team boss accuse another team since the first race of having an illegal car even though it has proven not to be.
During the Schumacher era Ferrari did no more than invest 100% in one driver
(something Ron Dennis regrets to this day regarding the titles he could have won) . Ferrari never instructed at any point he should crash while racing against Hill or Villeneuve, that was down to the individual driver in the same way Mercedes did not instruct him to push Barrichello into the wall, that is and has always been his style as was many drivers in the past but because only fans of a certain age remember there actions.
How would most fans now look on teams breaking into other garages to steal parts to make the race or drivers called into the pits to give up their car for another driver? When T cars were still used and both cars were damaged in a 1st lap crash who do you think got into it?
I am a Ferrari fan and have been since 1970. One of the main reasons for this is that they have been the principal team that says what it feels (whether that is right or wrong) and refuses to be manipulated by others teams of FIA officials who have or are only concerned with self promotion. Even when they were without a title for 21 years they maintained this stance and I appreciate them for it.

Ichyes, in your first post you mention ‘since the Schumacher years’ implying that the team have been underhand or un-sporting.

I meant that’s when the most notorious stuff started happening. Before that Ferrari were no better or worse than any other team. The Schumacher years took it to a new level, after which it looked like it was all behind them, but now we’ve seen something that harks back to the old days. Hence the question of whether it’s Alonso’s doing or not.

The rest of your post is quite diversionary. I’m not here to talk about what other teams have done, or that Ferrari aren’t as bad because other teams have done other things. Steph has already said it disappoints her as a Ferrari fan; you don’t seem to have addressed the issue of the impact of what your favoured team lying to the sporting authorities. Too uncomfortable, or does it just not bother you? Fair enough either way.

This weekend has made me thank god for the millionth time that I don’t support any F1 team, just the drivers.

Itchyes, my reply was with reference to the continual underhand tactics you claim Ferrari have used and the association that Alonso has with a win at all cost (cheating) attitude.
At most points in history the very best drivers have driven for Ferrari. They have always hired the best (with one obvious exception) and generally the best have always wanted to drive for them. Alonso has had a poor relationship with UK fans which most Europeans don’t quite understand. It will never be understood why a team would employ him and then the team boss say half way through a season that the team is racing against him. Mclaren hired him because he was the best driver at the time and for that same reason he is with Ferrari. He is guilty of nothing more than being single minded and totally focused on the title. You can as many fans have speculated on his involvement in certain events but surely even in F1 someone is innocent when proved to be so by the authorities.
In the comments I posted after Germany I made it clear that I did not like what the team did but I do understand why, in the same way I could not see much more of a punishment than the one they were given. I cannot understand this idea that the big bad red team are constantly involved in acts of impropriety while all others are squeaky clean and you along with many others must see that.
I like to think after all the years I’ve been a fan and with 10 years involved within the sport I have a reasonable grasp of what goes on within it.

What you’re saying is Alonso is guilty by association because he was a member of two teams caught cheating. I hope for the sake of the general public’s sake you are not a layer or magistrate.
Ferrari have always played the team game and the team victory is more important. We have 6 races left this year and very soon both Mclaren and Red Bull will have to concentrate on a driver if they want to win. If Hamilton is 30 points ahead of Button with 3 races to go Button can easily say he has a chance still to win, you me and the team may feel differently but technically he still has the chance to pull it off and that is why team orders exist and why Ferrari were not further punished. Mclaren and RBR will back their preferred driver. Do you really think Mclaren were happy when Ferrari won with Kimi because they could not put their own house in order?
I have never been a blind Ferrari fan who has or tried to justify their actions over the years. As passionate as I am about the team I liken most of their support to that of Manchester United (apologies to all true fans) . As I said earlier those of us who kept the faith waiting 21 years for a title and during a time when Ferrari himself wanted to pull out and sell up are the true fans and not just the glory hunters who climbed aboard.
This is an excellent subject and interesting to see different attitudes towards the sport within a European context.