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F1

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F1 discussion

Will we see more new teams in the coming years?

This topic contains 12 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of  Anonymous 2 years, 11 months ago.

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
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  • #130644
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    I have been thinking recently, with the three newer teams slowly coming to speed, will we see any new teams join the grid? I’m saying in the next 5-10 years because when it was discussed a few years ago, there was a lot of interest from the three new teams we have on the grid, to the failed USGP team (with two US GP’s going to be on the grid, could we see an american team?).

    #187789
    Profile photo of Lin1876
    Lin1876
    Participant

    While the revolving door of teams in the 1980s and 1990s was not a desirable situation, it is now so prohibitively expensive that stagnancy is a real risk. Part of what made F1 so exciting then was that teams would come an go, and new people with new ideas would arrive. Would Jordan have been able to enter in the current situation? Or Stewart? I suspect not. There are also examples of teams which could have worked, like Simtek, who also would have been unable to get in today.

    In fact, I would like to see a return to the days of more than 26 entrants. Having qualifying (and even pre-qualifying) in the literal sense weeded out the really slow teams without the need for the 107% rule. Yes, the rules would have to be tweaked, but failure to qualify, and the subsequent humiliation, would put the teams under pressure and punish mistakes, just like the good-old-bad-old days!

    #187790
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    I don’t know if we’ll see any teams that are started from the ground up, but we may see a few buy-outs. If Kingfisher keeps circling the drain, Vijay Mallya may be forced out of Force India, and new owners – most likely Subrata Roy – might rename the team.

    There is almost constant talk that Toro Rosso is going to be sold, and the latest suggestions are that the team will gradually be sold to a consortium from the Emirates over the course of a year (to preserve the team’s entitlements under the Concorde). But I wouldn’t be surprised if Mark Webber moves into team management, possibly succeeding Helmut Marko. Webber already works with Christian Horner on Arden; their GP3 team is called “MW Arden” and competes under an Australian racing licence.

    I also think that Sauber and Williams – the “name” teams – will eventually be sold. Especially Williams, if they keep going downhill (though I was happy to see their rhetoric has changed in recent days). Peter Sauber was originally bound for retirement when he sold to BMW, but came back after BMW pulled out. I can see him doing it again, and Frank Williams doing the same. Especially with the 2014 engine regulations. So we could see new manufacturers joining the sport with them and merging themselves into the team, making them the de facto works teams. Alternatively, Sauber may be bought by Carlos Slim, who sponsors hem through Claro and Telmex.

    There is a possibility that a new team will join the grid rather than buying an existing one. The fabled thirteenth grid spot is still open, and Lola have said they’re coinsidering a bid for it.

    So in a few years, we could see the following lineup:

    1) McLaren
    2) Ferrari
    3) Red Bull
    4) Mercedes
    5) Lotus
    6) Sahara Racing (nee Force India)
    7) Escuderia Sauber
    8) MW Emirates (nee Toro Rosso)
    9) Williams Audi (or any othe manufactuer)
    10) Caterham
    11) Marussia
    12) Lola
    13) HRT

    #187791
    Profile photo of BasCB
    BasCB
    Participant

    I agree with @prisoner-monkeys and @lin1876 on probably not going to see any new teams started up for the next couple of years, as the cost are extreme, and money still hard to come by.

    What’s more, the latest newly started up teams showed just how competative F1 is currently, and how long it takes to get any kind of success on track in the first few years. Making it a long term effort even to get close to a points finish, and offering a horrible ROI for any investor backer.

    As stated by PM, there are quite a few teams that would be the more logical ones to look at before going through the trouble of starting a new one.

    By the way, I seriously doubt Sahara would rename Force India, as its not a bad brand if you go for Indian home grown. Or they would rename the team for a strong consumer brand they would want to promote.
    The other one I can’t see existing in a couple of years is the acronym HRT, surely any self respecting new owner, or even the current owners in the long term, would want to get a better sounding name and preferrably something that either represents a good brand or can become one in its own right.

    #187792
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    HRT isn’t actually an acronym anymore. With Thesan Captial buying the team, they stopped referring to it as “Hispania Racing Team” and started calling it “HRT”. It’s a bit like the “BMW” in “BMW Sauber” during 2010 – it didn’t actually stand for anything, least of all “Bayerische Motoren Werke”.

    #187793
    Profile photo of Zadak
    Zadak
    Member

    Thesan isn’t that bad a name for a team…

    I don’t think we’re going to see the Sauber name in F1 after a few years, as PM said, Mr Sauber was going to retire when BMW took over. If a buyer gets 100% of the team then they will most likely drop the “Sauber”, a shame but it’s far from the best name in F1. (only won one race under BMW after how many years?)

    If Williams keep going down hill (it almost seems inevitable) Mr Williams could sell it. The new owners might keep the Williams name because it still carries a bit of weight.
    Let’s hope we don’t end up with a boring situation of two teams coming along after Williams claiming to have rights over the name, that would be a very boring situation.

    I’d like to see Torro Rosso gone, 2 too many Red Bulls on the track, and I hate the idea of a driving school with no championship ambitions in the middle of F1. Mr Red Bull says the team is not for sale though.

    Lola might come along and have another crack at F1. They’ve had success (and mighty failures) in the past.

    I think we could see another constructor joining, around the time of the new engines, maybe a few years after a team has had success with them (ie. Mercedes, Honda)

    The dream still remains: JCB F1

    #187794
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    It’ll be a rare thing if we do imo and if they do join I expect them to be as slow as the three teams we’ve got now. Testing may be gone and costs may be down but if anything I think this is one of the worst times for new teams.

    #187795
    Profile photo of Lin1876
    Lin1876
    Participant

    @Zadak I don’t see either the Sauber or Williams names going soon. Both are strong brands in motorsport and have loyal fanbases. Even BMW knew that, hance the team name was “BMW-Sauber”. Never say never, though.

    #187796
    Profile photo of Icthyes
    Icthyes
    Participant

    I just hope it isn’t manufacturer buyouts. The last teams to leave the sport were Toyota, BMW and Honda and all but the latter left their F1 operations to die. I know the Jordan – Midland – Spyker – Force India merry go-round of buyouts wasn’t ideal but at least we had a team there every year. The only real manufacturer buyout that has worked and survived was McLaren and Mercedes partnering, of course now Mercedes has their own team but McLaren hasn’t been left in the lurch because of it. I’d like to see any future manufacturer involvement along those lines, like a more amicable Williams-BMW.

    #187797
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    I think the BMW Sauber collaboration was working. They were, after all, third in the WCC. But the problem was that the F1.09 was a terrible car, and it was very expensive to turn it around. This itself wasn’t that much of a problem; the real issue was the global recession. BMW were hurt by it, and they simply couldn’t justify keeping BMW Sauber alive. If it weren’t for the recession, we’d probably still have BMW Sauber on the grid.

    #187798
    Profile photo of Zadak
    Zadak
    Member

    BMW and Honda both had the same sort of problem. Global economic crisis and poor cars.

    How long has Renault not been owned by Renault, if a team can keep the name regardless of ownership then maybe a Williams buyout will not be the end of the name.

    #187799
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    The team kept the Renault name in order to preserve their status within the constructors’ championship. If they changed their name – even if that was quite literally the only thing that changed – then they forefeited their claim to the end-of-year television rights pay-outs from FOM, and these pay-outs form a significant part of their budget for the next season.

    I believe the reason for this is that during the political crisis in 2009, the teams agreed to use parts of the 1997 Concorde Agreement until the 2012 one came up for negotiation. By adotping the 1997 Agreement, the definition of a construtor changed, making it harder for team to change their names. Renault probably would have changed sooner if it were easier to do so.

    #187800
    Profile photo of
    Anonymous

    I would love to see more constructors such as Honda and Toyota and even a few new ones like Audi and hopefully Ford but this is F1 and F1 is idiosyncratic. The worlds economical climate means that they will need ultimate success and money pouring in to make it work. @Prisoner Monkeys said that if we didn’t have a recession, we’d have BMW Sauber, I think that it would be more than that and we would still have a Honda team and even Toyota team. It shows something when one of the worlds biggest brands, Virgin, don’t want to be title sponsor to a team and sell the right. F1 is one of the biggest sports in the world. It also has one of the biggest failure margens in the world, you can pump as much cash into a team but it takes more brains than money.

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