F1 Fanatic

This video appears to show something different:

The lights on Vettel’s dashboard are on, and the digital board on the outside of Turn 3 is still yellow.

Ferrari probably won’t appeal, even if they felt it was questionable. It would come across as being sour grapes, and even then, the FIA would be unlikely to change the outcome of the race and the championship.

But I find it odd that the flags take precedence over the lights, because you can easily create a contradictor situation like this one, where a marshall shows a flag that is at odds with the lights.

It is indeed a confusing situation. What I do understand happens is that the dash lights are not of “end all be all” status. Track signals (light boards or flags) take precedence over dash lights.

But in this case, you’ve got a green flag on one side of the circuit and a yellow flag on the other. In this situation, the dash lights being on support the idea that that that section of the circuit was under yellows.

Ok, before I start, I’m a Flag Marshal here in NZ.

@keithcollantine is 100% spot on with his first post.

The way that the Floppy Marker system works, is that say you have a sector on a straight. Flag Point 1, and Flag Point 2. Now, approximately half way between these points will be a Floppy Marker (It changes depending on the location of the flag points and Line of Sight etc.) If there is an incident between FP1 and FP2 that demands a Yellow Flag from FP1 and it is BEFORE the Floppy Marker, then the cars may overtake from the Floppy Marker onwards provided there is a Green Flag at FP2. If the Incident for the Yellow Flag is AFTER the Floppy Marker, then the cars may not overtake until the pass FP2.

Given that not only Vettel passes Toro Rosso AFTER the Floppy Marker between FP4 and FP5, I would call that pass 100% legal. You could also call into question the validity of the Yellow Flag at FP4, but that’s down to the lights operator down at FP4 and they may have been told to put the Yellow light on by Race Control or someone else.

I hope that clears it up.

@darkenforca Great to hear that from an actual marshal – thanks!

(Link to first comment for those looking for it)

I hope that clears it up.

Is this “Floppy Marker” system something that is intended for drivers to know the circumstances under which flags are to be shown at certain points on the circuit? Or is it simply intended to aid the marshalls in determining which marshalling points should be showing which flags?

Because it seems to me that it is the latter, in which case the testimony of the marshalls would be valued in deciding the appropriate course of action. But for the drivers to point it out seems a little presumptuous to me, implying that they know better about which parts of the circuit are safe and which are not, based on evidence outside what they usually use. It would almost be a case of saying “Yes, I passed there because the circuit was safe and I knew better than the lag marshalls”, and it is not the driver’s place to do that.

the fact that the FIA did nothing, none of the teams protested protested

Teams have until November 30 to lodge a protest.

not a single credible F1 journalist is running these conspiracy theories

These “credible journalists” won’t run a story like thsi until it is confirmed by a part involved. Because if they do, it stops being a story and starts being an opinion piece.

My understanding – in any motorsport – has always been that when you enter a yellow flag zone, you cannot pass until you have cleared the green flag. By allowing the drivers to use the floppy marker as an additional point of reference, you have effectively created an additional marshalling point, with the difference being that it is completely unmanned, and a driver must use his best judgement to gauge whether or not a pass is legal. That, to my mind, is asking for trouble. It would be like having a football match where the players are also the referees. It creates a loophole where drivers may execute passes in an area of the circuit that is considered to be unsafe to do so, which is a slippery slope.

I think the floppy marker should only be treated as a point of reference for marshalls in working out whether they need to show a yellow or a green flag. The drivers should not be permitted to use it to determine whether or not a pass is legal. It certainly should not supersede flags, digital signs and the car’s telemetry, whatever priority each of those happens to have.

@prisoner-monkeys

effectively created an additional marshalling point, with the difference being that it is completely unmanned [...] creates a loophole where drivers may execute passes in an area of the circuit that is considered to be unsafe to do so, which is a slippery slope.

All completely untrue, and obviously an attempt at obfuscating the entirely clear rule I quoted.

The marker serves as the point from which the green flag starts. There’s nothing complicated about that – unless you purposefully misunderstand it to try to imply some wrongdoing on Vettel’s part.