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F1

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F1 discussion

Video: Vettel’s ’yellow flag’ overtakes

This topic contains 206 replies, has 61 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Bullfrog Bullfrog 1 year, 9 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 151 through 165 (of 207 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #216076
    Avatar of Fernando
    Fernando
    Member

    @stig
    Yes it is amaizing, so we are discussing about it now at 3:00 AM

    #216077
    Avatar of Matt
    Matt
    Member

    @Alonso – I can confirm the video is identical and the screen shot I have taken is from 06:03 into the video you just posted. Immediately following the screen shot he passes the STR.

    #216078
    Avatar of HotRodMex
    HotRodMex
    Participant

    The biggest problem I have in this entire discussion, aside from the continued ignorant arrogance of the yellow-flag conspiracy crowd (reading snippets of rules instead of the entire sporting code, questioning the presence of a marshal stand even though the stands location was proven from the FIA previously in the thread, etc), is the assumption that a seasoned professional racecar pilot would not be able to see a green flag waving at 160mph, and YOU couldn’t see it on the low resolution camera shooting in cloud cover , so it must not be possible!

    Drivers are trained early on to know where the marshal stations are, and to sight them as they approach. This is covered in even the most basic track day driver’s meeting. Since my first track day, I have known to take note of where the stations are, and most importantly any special circumstances on the day that change the behavior required for certain situations. Besides, with a good wave, the color of the flag being presented can be determined a quarter of a mile away. On approach all it takes is a quick glance to verify. Trust, it’s not that difficult.

    Aside from all that, there are MANY racing series where those speeds are reached, and very few of them have electronic signaling. What if the power went out to a station? Flags only need a willing arm, and marshals only need the battery in their radio.

    #216079
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant


    #216080
    Avatar of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    This conversation has gone on about six pages since I last left, but I’m still not buying the floppy marker argument. I’m not trying to insinuate that Vettel’s championship is tainted, I just don’t understand the rule.

    In racing, the yellow flags mark an area of the circuit where there is a danger and the drivers should proceed with caution. Green flags mark the point where the danger has passed and racing may resume. But if I’m understanding the floppy marker argument correctly, the drivers may resume racing before they actually pass the green flag, which completely negates the point of showing that green flag at all, because by its very nature, it implies that the circuit is safe from that point on; the portion of circuit immediately preceding it is not safe.

    #216081
    Avatar of Oletros
    Oletros
    Participant

    @prisoner-monkeys

    ” But if I’m understanding the floppy marker argument correctly, the drivers may resume racing before they actually pass the green flag, “

    Noooo, the floppy marker IS a green flag. The only difference between a marshal with a physical flag and a light signal is that one is a physical flag and the other is a light post, nothing more.

    #216082
    Avatar of infy
    infy
    Participant

    Why are we still even talking about this?

    #216083
    Avatar of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    @infy – Did it occur to you that there are some of us who are still trying to understand the issue at hand? Read my last post, if you must: not only am I unclear about the use of the floppy marker, but it clearly calls into question my understanding of what I have regarded as one of the most basic rules of racing.

    But hey, you’ve decided that the issue is settled, so why should I get any kind of resolution that betters my knowledge of the sport?

    #216084
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    @oletros To be fair, I think the point @prisoner-monkeys is raising – which I sort of agree with, if I’m reading it correctly – is then why bother with such a long sector? Break the sector up into 2 sectors – then just greenflag the second “subsector” – why bother making the distinction with a “floppy marker?”

    #216085
    Avatar of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    Stop me if this is a silly question, but when Vettel passed Vergne, what incident were the yellow flags being shown for? There was obviously some kind of contact beforehand and debris was scattered over the circuit, but I can’t recall who made contact with whom to put it there.

    Just call it idle curiosity.

    #216086
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    @prisoner-monkeys interesting question. I don’t remember incidents there now that you mention it. I’ve had a watch of the Sky and BBC races of the first 5 laps – and other than Alonso exploring the new Turn 1 runoff twice I don’t remember anything that happened there.

    Lap 1 of course saw Vettel, Senna and Perez playing F1 pinball, but that should be triggering the yellow into Turn 4, rather than on the Resta Opposta.

    #216087
    Avatar of Dave
    Dave
    Participant

    As much as I wanted Alonso to win the title, judging by what I’ve seen and read here I don’t think Vettel will get penalised for overtaking illegally. If flags overrule all other signals (light boards, in car lights, etc) and there’s clear video of a green flag being waved before Vettel makes the pass then it seems like it’s fine.

    The KERS usage before the marshal post (so still under yellow flag conditions) looks like it’s more of an issue if that’s against the rules. The image that Matt posted shows Vettel hasn’t yet reached the marshal post but the on screen telemetry shows that his KERS has been activated. I guess the on screen information could be wrong or slightly out of time with the picture although it’s usually pretty good when it comes to things like gear changes synchronising with the audio or DRS activation synchronising with the car passing the DRS sign. The telemetry should be pretty clear on this so it should be an easy thing for the FIA to rule on.

    I personally think that if they do decide he’s guilty of something they’ll give him a reprimand or penalty less than 20 seconds (hasn’t that been done before?)

    #216088
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    @davea86 the last I remember was a bunch of 5s penalties given at Valencia 2010.

    @prisoner-monkeys I put the question to another forum – the reply I got was that Maldonado lost it at turn 3 and crashed into the barriers on lap 2 or 3.

    #216089
    Avatar of Oletros
    Oletros
    Participant

    @raymondu999

    But it is already broken in two sectors, one from the lights to the marshal and the other from the marshal to the next lights

    #216090
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    @oletros yes I get what you’re saying – but it just seems arbitrary. Why not just make it two “sectors” outright, rather than a floppy marker which just makes people confused?

    Obviously the fact that some are not understanding the floppy system is a sign that it is somewhat contrived.

    Sure, @darkenforca knew it – but it’s part of his flag marshalling.

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