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F1 discussion

Video: Vettel’s ’yellow flag’ overtakes

This topic contains 206 replies, has 61 voices, and was last updated by Avatar of Bullfrog Bullfrog 1 year, 9 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 207 total)
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  • #215936
    Avatar of crr917
    crr917
    Participant

    @infy toro rosso was never faster than Vettel :D
    About the third drivers – you just put 6 red bulls and 3 mclarens on grid. No amount of luck would put Alonso on podium again.
    And in the unlikely scenario of Vettel being punished, Vergne would also be punished for hitting Glock to keep the championship result intact.

    #215937
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    @infy

    Ironic that people make a noise about Massa letting his teammate past, yet when an entirely separate team is instructed (illegally and obviously behind closed doors prior to the race/season) to let Vettel by it is just accepted.

    Thank you sir for saying that… it is just ridiculous how the STR´s jump out of the way… I mean seriously… I just wonder how that guy can sleep at night knowing he has 5 other cars on the grid that can help him out whenever….
    Yet the RBR fans hail him… Massa is in the same team as Alonso and team orders are legal but using another team and ordering to move aside is just tasteless and disgusting…

    #215938
    Avatar of goofy
    goofy
    Participant

    I watched it frame by frame several time and i’m pretty sure that there is a green flag but the resolution of the video is too low

    http://www.abload.de/img/clipboard023lu9a.jpg

    http://www.abload.de/img/clipboard01hiuf6.jpg

    #215940
    Avatar of nesh
    nesh
    Member

    Marshal Sector 4 (basically the straight after turn 3) was green flagged by the flag marshal in Post 5 on Lap 3. Vettel overtook a Marussia on Lap 3 and the Toro Rosso on Lap 4. You guys are making mountains out of molehills just cause some random dude called George Whatever tells you on youtube if you see yellow light on the cockpit then it’s a yellow zone … cockpit lights synch to sensors on light stations, not every marshal’s post has a light station attached (and post 5 in Interlagos doesn’t have any lights) and drivers have to obey flags first and foremost, lights are supplementary signals.

    Vettel’s overtake was fine and legal.

    #215941
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    Taken from the comments on the video (don’t shoot the messenger)

    At 11:51, the marshall post at the pitlane exit shows a marshall with a green flag in his hand. Controversy over. Onto 2013.

    #215942
    Avatar of Bob
    Bob
    Participant

    @catracho504

    Yet the RBR fans hail him

    I don’t see how Toro Rosso yielding track position to Red Bull is any indicator of Vettel’s own driving ability.

    5 other cars on the grid that can help him out whenever

    Don’t you mean 3? His teammate, and the two Toro Rossos.

    Still, I agree with you that Red Bull effectively having 4 cars circulating on track, and using that to put one team’s drivers at an advantage, is highly questionable.

    #215943
    Avatar of
    Anonymous

    @Bob

    Don’t you mean 3? His teammate, and the two Toro Rossos.

    Nope… totally meant to say 5. You figure out the other 2… I´ll give you a hint… engine supplier… ;D

    #215944
    Avatar of nesh
    nesh
    Member

    oh lord, if it was such a huge advantage why doesn’t McLaren, Ferrari or whoever spend 5 bucks to buy HRT so they can also have “easy overtakes”. The total timeloss for a RB/Ferrari/McLaren overtaking an STR is about 5 seconds. Who cares. Back in 2007 Coulthard said if Hamilton came to overtake him in the race he wouldn’t interfere because he didn’t want the negative media coverage of blocking a British F1 Championship candidate. And promptly Coulthard moved all the way to the edge of the track in front of the pits when Hamilton overtook him. Nobody was outraged.

    #215945
    Avatar of Bob
    Bob
    Participant

    @catracho504 – To the best of my memory, the team you have in mind haven’t explicitly moved over for Red Bull before. And if you want to consider the influence of engine suppliers, then one could argue that Ferrari have 4 cars on track as well.

    @nesh – Having more cars on track naturally allows a team to subtly affect the outcome of a race. Those “5 seconds” lost while lapping a slow car may seem insignificant, but could result in gaps between drivers (one from a competing team, the other from the affiliated team) shrinking, precipitating a change of position, with potential championship-altering consequences.

    In this case, having the Toro Rosso move out of the way enabled Vettel to avoid losing time, expending effort and risking damage by being bottled-up behind and conventionally overtaking the slower car. In other cases, having a Toro Rosso car briefly hold up frontrunners while being lapped, then subsequently waving the RBRs by, makes for a significant advantage in on-track battles.

    #215946
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    @catracho504 Except Red Bull’s engine supplier don’t have a grid presence. In fact – they are the “mother team” for Renault engines now.

    #215947
    Avatar of raymondu999
    raymondu999
    Participant

    So… I have an interesting take on this even assuming he *did* overtake under yellows…

    An incident is any one of the following according to the sporting regulations:

    a) Necessitated the suspension of a race under Article 41.
    b) Constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code.
    c) Caused a false start by one or more cars.
    d) Caused a collision.
    e) Forced a driver off the track.
    f) Illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver.
    g) Illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.

    Note, no mention of overtaking under yellow flags. The only mention of yellow flags in the sporting regulations are for two circumstances – 1) when a car has stalled on the grid 2) when the safety car is deployed.

    For reference, here’s “the code”
    http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/DD5A1BFC38A13D83C125751400375656/$FILE/CSI_apres_AGNov08ANG.pdf

    Note, it too does not mention yellow flags…

    It would appear that the FIA forgot to include rules banning overtaking under yellows!

    #215948
    Avatar of cmckinleyF1
    cmckinleyF1
    Participant

    Really interesting discussion, i totally missed the marshall waving the green flag just after turn 3. Vettel’s steering wheel was still in yellow flag mode though.

    I don’t think he should have got a penalty for that move with all things considered. Definitely interesting to see though and worth debating. Also good to see the full context of the Karthikeyan move as some were citing a very short video of it yesterday as evidence when it wasn’t clear cut but this shows it better

    #215949
    Avatar of Fabiana
    Fabiana
    Participant

    Since I couldn’t find any good enough videos about this whole incident with Vettel and Vergne, I decided to follow the lap through the F1 Timing app for iPhone.

    You can see that Seb and Vergne are on the edge of the end of the yellow sector.

    http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me5r3xnfpz1qbgg8c.png

    So Seb can claim he was going to overtake after the yellow sector, but Vergne slowed down and if he slowed down as well he would cause a collision.

    I couldn’t get it on pic, because it happens very quickly, but after that you can see the VER dot on top of the VET dot in that purple bit and then this:

    http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me5rka8mCr1qbgg8c.png

    So that could have been an illegal pass. However, if you continue to watch the app you can see this:

    http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me5s2rzKCI1qbgg8c.png

    http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me5s5mA3y41qbgg8c.png

    So it looks like Seb gave the position back to Vergne and then a bit further down took it again. So, even if it was illegal, he gave the position back. I don’t see why FIA would still punish him after that.

    #215951
    Avatar of devotee
    devotee
    Participant

    Here it is more clear http://i49.tinypic.com/212bl1c.jpg

    #215952
    Avatar of devotee
    devotee
    Participant

    But even if it was yellow there was no punishment cause toro rosso let him through.

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