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2013 GP2 Series round 7: Hungaroring, Mogyorod, Budapest

This topic contains 45 replies, has 20 voices, and was last updated by Profile photo of wsrgo wsrgo 1 year, 2 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 46 total)
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  • #239302
    Profile photo of Carlitox
    Carlitox
    Participant

    @keithcollantine I think I didn’t express myself correctly. What I meant is that Montoya and Raikkonen got there with no huge investments on them. Of course the guys you mentioned have loads of talent, but they have big money with them or at least a good deal of help:
    Hamilton – Ron Dennis and McLaren since he was young
    Vettel – Red Bull young driver’s program
    Bianchi – Ferrari Driver Academy
    I do have to agree with Bottas, Hulkenberg and Rosberg. I won’t play the “he has an important surname” card with the latter because he has demonstrated how good he can be. But other examples are: Alonso, who had Telefonica backing when he started, Massa, had backing from his father’s businesses, Perez has Slim money, Maldonado has Venezuelan government money. All of them have great skills and huge talent but they aren’t short on money either.
    Apologies for the misunderstanding in the other post.

    #239303
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    @andae23 – Be angry all you want. It’s not going to change anything. Hilmer obviously couldn’t afford to keep Frijns any longer, and couldn’t justify keeping him in the seat. The team do not owe Frijns anything.

    @rjoconnell – Frijns doesn’t have a major sponsor because he hasn’t been able to find one.

    #239304
    Profile photo of Deej92
    Deej92
    Participant

    I’ve seen rumours suggesting the Hungarian GP could be Hulkenberg’s last at Sauber, and he’ll sit out the rest of the season. With Frijns losing his GP2 seat, could Sauber be ready to put him in a seat? They now have financial stability, and with Hulkenberg departing, they might want to give Frijns experience ready for next season as well. This may be complete rubbish but just a thought.

    #239305
    Profile photo of Fixy
    Fixy
    Participant

    I’ve heard rumours about Hulkenberg as well. What would be the point? If Frijns had the money Hulkenberg does not… but it’s most likely the opposite. Why put an inexperienced driver in place of a “future world champion” when the team is already struggling like this? They have the talent in Hulkenberg and the money in Gutierrez, Frijns would be a wise move for the team only to prepare him for 2014 – but in place of Hulkenberg? Even Ricciardo replaced Karthikeyan rather than Liuzzi…
    Free practice is enough to give Frijns F1 time and not throw 2013 in the bin so soon. Of course there’s nothing more to do, but leaving a driver of Hulkenberg’s calibre right now would be dreadful, even because they have just secured some more sponsorship from Russia and already have another driver in their ranks. And if they plan on signing Frijns and Sirotkin for 2014, why keep Gutierrez now? Keeping him over Hulkenberg is the option only if they plan on keeping him for next season as well…
    But let’s say it was his choice, why would Hulkenberg want to move out from Sauber? If he were to move to a better team for 2014 – and at this point Ferrari becomes likely – neither him nor Ferrari would want him to lose track time – and with the ties between Ferrari and Sauber, they wouldn’t allow it.

    #239306
    Profile photo of Nick
    Nick
    Participant

    @rjoconnell @Prisoner-Monkeys I’ve said it before, but Frijns needs a manager that devotes all his time to him. Dutch companies aren’t renowned for their F1 sponsorship, but where as Albers and Doornbos never got really far as far as sponsors are concerned, Verstappen got a heap of support from Philip Morris Netherlands, Philips, Exact, Trust and Wilux. I am convinced Frijns and his management group are not looking and trying hard enough.

    @Deej92 I’m going to have to agree with @fixy here, Frijns can’t even afford a GP2 seat, so he has nothing financial to offer. In recent years, drivers who made a debut in the middle of the season had a hard time, and Sauber’s other rookie is already having a hard time. It would be senseless for Sauber and possibly damaging Frijns’ image and confidence.

    Frijns showing off his political skills again:

    #239307
    Profile photo of Deej92
    Deej92
    Participant

    I agree, I don’t see how Hulkenberg, Sauber or his future team would benefit from this if true. Like you say, it would surely be Gutierrez being replaced if anyone because Slim’s money is going to direct more towards McLaren than Sauber (or has done already), and he hasn’t shown much so far. It’s hard to imagine that Hulkenberg leaving is Sauber’s decision, and isn’t he now free to leave with immediate effect whenever he wishes? All of this would be a strange development I know that much…

    #239308
    Profile photo of JackySteeg
    JackySteeg
    Participant

    Regarding Hulkenburg…

    I can completely understand why Sauber would ditch him. Now, don’t get me wrong – this isn’t a criticism of Nico at all. But when you look at the constructors’ championship, you see that Sauber are quite some way behind STR (24 points against Sauber’s 7), and of course their next challengers, Williams, haven’t scored all year.

    So I would say it’s highly likely that Sauber will remain in 8th place until the end of the season. Whether or not Hulkenburg stays will probably not effect that, so it makes me think whether there’s any point in paying to keep him when they probably aren’t getting that much out of it.

    I’m not too familiar with the financial benefits of the occasional point place in F1, but no doubt Sauber will be weighing up how much money a driver like Hulkenburg could earn for the team compared to how much money a better-funded driver could bring to the team if they signed them up now.

    It would definitely be a shame if Nico were to go, particularly as he doesn’t seem to have much lined up next year. But he, of all people, knows well enough that financial stability is a top priority for a midfield F1 team.

    Call me a pessimist, but something about Sauber’s Russian rescue deal seems a little too good to be true. I don’t think they’re out of the woods yet – they ought to take every financial opportunity they can get.

    #239309
    Profile photo of R.J. O'Connell
    R.J. O’Connell
    Participant

    Where do y’all think Frijns goes from here?

    In all honesty, looking at his results, from this year…way too inconsistent to bump up to F1 after a year in GP2. He needs another year in the series that he probably can’t pay for. There’s no point in going back to FR3.5.

    Auto GP is more intent on acquiring ex-HRT drivers in their 30s rather than trying to graduate genuine talent to F1, so he’d end up being a literal whale in a teardrop. Same if he goes to Japanese Super Formula, which hasn’t put a race winning F1 driver through their ranks since Ralf Schumacher. And if he does take the road to Indycar, it needs to start in an actual IndyCar Series drive and not in an Indy Lights, because he’s way too proven for a series that puts less cars on the grid every round than some versions of Ridge Racer on the PS1.

    #239310
    Profile photo of Felipe Bomeny
    Felipe Bomeny
    Participant

    The Spanish press is reporting that Dani Clos will partner Daniel de Jong at MP for Hungary.

    Regarding Frijns, talent isn’t the only prerequisite for graduating to F1. Frijns has heaps of talent, but he’s really hurt his own image with his arrogance and poor PR skills. There was an Autosport article published a year ago that stated that Frijns could be really stubborn and difficult to work with, although the talent was there. Frijns famously refused support from the Red Bull junior team, and that has proven to be a mistake, at least at the moment. Sauber probably won’t have any room for a driver with little backing, let alone a rookie. With Sirotkin in one car, the team will ostensibly want a more experienced driver, such as Bianchi, as team leader, effectively excluding Frijns. Meanwhile, Antonio Felix da Costa is almost guaranteed an F1 seat next year while Frijns will probably search for another category. @rjoconnell I think Frijns will end up in DTM, most likely with Merc, considering he’s tested with them before.

    #239311
    Profile photo of Enigma
    Enigma
    Participant

    @portugoose That is a good point, I don’t think Frijns is a character sponsors would really want to back, even if he’s talented. But still, the talent he’s got should be more than enough to get him a GP2 seat, possibly even an F1 one.

    #239312
    Profile photo of Matthijs
    Matthijs
    Participant

    @npf1

    Frijns showing off his political skills again:

    @Lancaster4F1 thanks mate. Greetz to the boys! Was great fun you as a team mate! #allaboutthemoney #teamdouchebag

    — Robin Frijns (@RFrijns) July 24, 2013

    Frijns is a very emotional person. He is a very very talented driver, but he seems not so nice. To what team is this #teamdouchebag referring? To Hilmer that let hime race for free when Hilmer hardly had any sponsors? Or to Sauber that gave him 1,5 days of testing when they could have sold it to some pay driver?

    I say it again: Frijns must get his act together or the teams will ‘puke him out’ (is that something English say or only us Dutch?)

    Why must there be someone to blame for this? I see it on Dutch forum, where many of the fans complain about Dutch businesses that refuse to sponsor Frijns. As if it is an obligation to help him land a seat.

    #239315
    Profile photo of Prisoner Monkeys
    Prisoner Monkeys
    Participant

    Refusing Red Bull backing might have been a mistake, but I don’t think its something Frijns could really be criticised for. He made it pretty clear that if he joined the YDP, he would have no freedom to pursue his career the way he wanted to. He also implied that Red Bull might send him off to an obscure racing series to keep him busy and out if the hands of a rival team if they promoted someone over him.

    #239316
    Profile photo of Matthijs
    Matthijs
    Participant

    @prisoner-monkeys He probably rejected Red Bull because he thought he could get in F1 on own merit. Very understandable position at the time, but eventually proven to be wrong (although I jump to conclusions too soon I hope).

    Beaching his Sauber in the gravel trap at Luffield might he his last act in a single seater for a long time…

    #239317
    Profile photo of Nick
    Nick
    Participant

    Why must there be someone to blame for this? I see it on Dutch forum, where many of the fans complain about Dutch businesses that refuse to sponsor Frijns. As if it is an obligation to help him land a seat.

    The same complaint was heard about Jos Verstappen after he severed ties with Philip Morris by signing for Benetton (Mild Seven being a Imperial Tobacco brand) and while being sponsored by Philips, Exact, Lost Boys, Trust and Wilux. I think Dutch fans easily over-estimate our economy and think we have companies like Telmex running around looking for international appeal, which we either already have/had in F1 or are marketing towards the Netherlands itself. With F1 on pay channel Sport1, I hardly think it’s that easy. But Frijns and his management need to take a good look around as well. It’s not as if there aren’t Dutch drivers in other categories with sponsorship and 10 small sponsors is better than nothing.

    Frijns does seem like a very emotional, yet introvert person. Of course I don’t know him, but in a double interview with Verstappen, Frijns really flocked to Jos and the paper described the talks they had as ‘a father to a son’, so Frijns does seem to be able to listen to advice. But he needs someone to kick his butt from time to time and say ‘better not post it like that on Twitter’ or ‘calm down for the next race, this over-racing doesn’t get you anywhere with this field and tyres.’

    Frijns is rarely seen with a manager or confidant around and I think that’s a bad thing. He needs a Wili Weber, a Huub Rothengatter, a Keke Rosberg (to Mika Hakkinen). I’d say Verstappen, but he is managing his son up until motorsport levels. Huub Rothengatter burned too many bridges and a lot of drivers from the 90s who would be ideal to guide Frijns are still active as drivers or advisors.

    I think Frijns didn’t hurt his career too bad by not finishing in GP2 more often than he did, nor beaching the Sauber, but I think his attitude and pride (or at least a lack of pro-activity) have hurt him tremendously. I think he did the right thing by not entering the Red Bull program (with a lot of talented drivers lined up for F1) but he shot himself in the foot with the commentary on the Red Bull program.

    I still hope he makes it to F1, but right now, those hopes are getting very similar to the hopes I had of seeing Verstappen in F1 after his dismal year with Minardi.

    #239318
    Profile photo of Matthijs
    Matthijs
    Participant

    Nice post @npf1!

    I think Dutch fans easily over-estimate our economy and think we have companies like Telmex running around looking for international appeal, which we either already have/had in F1 or are marketing towards the Netherlands itself. With F1 on pay channel Sport1, I hardly think it’s that easy. But Frijns and his management need to take a good look around as well. It’s not as if there aren’t Dutch drivers in other categories with sponsorship and 10 small sponsors is better than nothing.

    I agree 100%. Don’t blame the Dutch companies, but be critical about Frijns’s management (or blame the economy…)

    Frijns does seem like a very emotional, yet introvert person. Of course I don’t know him, but in a double interview with Verstappen, Frijns really flocked to Jos and the paper described the talks they had as ‘a father to a son’, so Frijns does seem to be able to listen to advice.

    I see a close resemblance between the two, both on and off track.

    But he needs someone to kick his butt from time to time and say ‘better not post it like that on Twitter’

    I did that actually, today on twitter. I told myself not to do it, but his comment #teamdouchebag is just not fair to Hilmer and/or Sauber and very disrespectful. So I did send Frijns a tweet today.

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