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How fast could a F1 car with a Bugatti Veyron engine go?
5th December 2011, 18:00 at 6:00 pm #130554
Do we have any experts here?5th December 2011, 18:12 at 6:12 pm #186384
Hard to say… we don’t have specifics on the Veyron engine such as fuel consumption, cooling figures, weight etc.
The side pods I would imagine would need to be bigger to cool the massive engine, which would create drag, and I’m no expert on engines in particular but a bigger air box might be needed given the number of cylinders and turbos involved.
The torque and power delivery curves would also have to be seen – I don’t know how peaky the engine is.
However if you’re talking more of basically having a Veyron’s power and torque on an F1 car with no need for extra cooling; then I’d say well fast. Most teams however would probably increase wing angle instead to get more downforce rather than the extra engine oomph.5th December 2011, 18:26 at 6:26 pm #186385
I think it’d actually be slower, granted I’m not the expert you were looking for, but the Veyron basically has two 4 litre V8s. The engine themselves nevermind being absolutely huge would probably weigh the same as an entire F1 car.
Considering the old 3.0 V10s produced pretty much the same power as a Veyron proves my point, an F1 cars aerodynamics is the reason why it’s “slow” compared to a Veyron.
Without the wings and underfloor, but some kind of more basic downforce an F1 car could get close to 300 mph without such an engine.6th December 2011, 2:06 at 2:06 am #186386
@deanmachine but what could a current f1 engine rev to safely anyway? (removing the limiter of course) 25,000rpm?6th December 2011, 2:17 at 2:17 am #186387
Hard to say, yeah.
First of all, that engine needs huge radiators, and it’s W-shaped, so that means it’s CoG is higher, and the whole engine cover would need to be enormous. And it’s incredibly heavy.
So if you put one in a F1 car right away, it’d probably make the whole car slower.
That said, if F1 engineers got one of those engines, they’d make it a lot more powerful than it is. They’d push the rev limiter much further and they’d not need to secure the engine is reliable enough to be used in the road for years.
But the size of the engine it’s still too big, so maybe it’d be faster in straight line, but not over a whole lap in a racing circuit (like the Zonda vs original Veyron in Top Gear a couple of years ago).6th December 2011, 3:21 at 3:21 am #186388
The veyron engine is hugely heavy in comparison to an F1 engine that’s without the size of the 10 radiators needed to cool car cool. A F1 engine weighs around 70- 90kg approx, the veyron’s probably weighs 5 times more? The extra 300 horse power the veryon engine makes would not compensate for the difference in weight when comparing the power to weight ratio.
What is the comparison though? is it straight line drag? top speed? or circuit time?6th December 2011, 4:16 at 4:16 am #1863896th December 2011, 4:56 at 4:56 am #186390
Tough to say. The only comparison power wise we have are the old 2005 V10’s which, accoring to this paper from BMW, were putting out around 950 bhp. http://f1tcdn.net/files/2011/bmw-f1-engines-200x.pdf
But like people have said, the Veyron’s engine is enormously heavy compared to a modern F1 engine and needs so much cooling it would probably end up slowing a modern F1 car down.
Nice thread though…6th December 2011, 9:15 at 9:15 am #186391
It would be a great experiment, but on a whole lap I am sure that the normal V8 2.4 engine would be the quicker way around the track. It is just a whole lot smaller and lighter, so it requires smaller airboxes and cooling and has a lower CoG.
If the F1 engineers were allowed to play with the engine though.. The Veyron engine could be pretty amazing. Considering they could screw around 1500hp from the four cylinder 1,6 liter engines in the 80’s, also with the engine block from a road car!
The power they could get from that engine would be way too much for tyres to take, and render the power useless, everywhere but on the straights, but still with the massive weight penalty. I don’t think it would be worth it.
But it would be nice to see how quick you could make that thing go from 100-300km/h with the skinniest wings, all ballast removed and the engine from a Veyron in the back.6th December 2011, 16:26 at 4:26 pm #186392
dam00rParticipant6th December 2011, 18:20 at 6:20 pm #186393
I just wanted to take this experiment a little further then.
Well if we apply some simple maths here (and I mean REALLY simple).
So we multiply the power of the 1,6 liter engines with the displacement difference compared to a Veryon engine they could, potentially get 7500hp! That is some 500-1000hp short of what a top fuel dragster delivers.
Though the engine from a dragster, is not only supercharged, but it also runs on nitro and stuff like that, to get those 8000+hp, so I don’t think that upping the revs and raise the boost on the turbo’s will get you to that sort of power.
But it does ask the question, how do F1 engineers get nearly 1000hp pr liter from the engines (The same as they get from those top fuels), and in the 80’s make them go a whole F1 distance of 300 odd kilometers when the engine on a dragster needs a full engine rebuild after just 412 meters?!
I am no engine expert or anything like that, but my guess is that engine power is a bit like top speed.
You only need some 30 hp to get to 100 km/h in a sort of small car. To get to 200, you need what 100? 150?
To get to 300 you will need 400-500hp.
To get to 400km/h a Veyron needs a thousand!
My point is, is it the first 1000hp pr liter that is the “easy” bit, but when you need to extract 1000hp pr liter, over 8 liters of capacity, over just 8 cylinders is a lot harder?
I mean in a top fuel each cylinder gives them 1000hp.
In one of those four pot F1 engines each cylinder “only” had to cope with around 400 hp.
Is that what makes the real difference?
In that case then, a Veyron engine, with all 16 cylinders running 400hp would be able to develop 6400hp, which is still a lot!
Though the cooling to provide that, would be pretty hard. Especially when the engine is in a W configuration.
Sadly real life physics are quite a lot more advanced then this and we need to take into account just short of a billion things, before we would get any sort of realistic power figure.6th December 2011, 18:55 at 6:55 pm #186394
@mads top speed is a function of engine power, and aero drag. Also where are you getting 1000hp per liter from? Today’s engines will produce around 805-ish horsepower… divide that by 2.4 and you get 335 to the liter.7th December 2011, 7:42 at 7:42 am #186395
I get that from the old turbo monsters of the 80’s 1,6L to 1500hp’ish gets you about 1000hp/l. As the Veyron is a turbo charged engine I thought that it would be better to compare it the most recent F1 turbo technology. Though it is a bit aged.7th December 2011, 8:58 at 8:58 am #186396
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