Rally Portugal (Update: Hirvonen Excluded Handing Ostberg Win) (75 posts)

Topic tags: Hirvonen, latvala, Loeb, ostberg, Petter, portugal, rally, solberg, WRC
  • Profile picture of Prisoner Monkeys Prisoner Monkeys said 1 year, 1 month ago:

    BREAKING NEWS: Mikko Hirvonen has been desclassifed due to clutch irregularities. Consequently, Mads Otsberg has been handed his first ever win in the WRC.

    According to Autosport, there is a second problem with Hirvonen’s turbine wheel, which would be enough for an exclusion; since Hirvonen is already out, further sanctions may apply.

  • Profile picture of JPedroCQF1 JPedroCQF1 said 1 year, 1 month ago:

    I’ve read the stewards decision (http://www.rallydeportugal.pt/Handlers/fileHandler.ashx?path=/ResourcesUser/Documentos/Quadro_oficial_de_afixacao/Stewards_decision_8.pdf&menuid=2) and the turbine appears to have expanded due to the extreme heat.

  • Profile picture of JPedroCQF1 JPedroCQF1 said 1 year, 1 month ago:

    I don’t know if the appeal has already been overruled but the organisation of the Rally has published another official classification just 20 minutes ago: http://fb.acp.pt/HzZHzj

  • Profile picture of Prisoner Monkeys Prisoner Monkeys said 1 year, 1 month ago:

    What heat? They weren’t exactly rallying along the equator here. Portugal was inundated with near-monsoonal weather all week.

    That said, the turbine wheel deforming under extreme conditions does seem to be a fairly valid argument. According to the FIA, the wheel is supposed to have dimensions of 54.00mm, with a tolerance of 0.01mm, so it can be 53.99mm or 54.01mm and still be within the rules. Hirvonen’s turbine wheel, however, was measured at 54.02mm, so it’s one millimeter over the allowable margin for error. The FIA will test it further in a laboratory. Citroen claim that it was a standard part supplied to all the teams, so what the FIA really need to do is look at the turbine wheels of several cars (ideally from all manuacturers) and see whether it is a phenomenon common to all the cars (which means it’s a problem with the part), just the Citroens (a problem with the car in general), or just Hirvonen (a problem with Hirvonen’s car).

  • Profile picture of JPedroCQF1 JPedroCQF1 said 1 year, 1 month ago:

    Don’t even talk about the weather. I live on São Brás de Alportel, one of the stages that was cancelled on Friday, and if it wasn’t for the rally I would be depressed as it has been raining since Friday. Sometimes its heavy, sometimes its just a drizzle, but it is definitely annoying me this weather. Although we need this rain, because it hasn’t rained in Portugal for almost three months, this is too much of it now!

  • Profile picture of Prisoner Monkeys Prisoner Monkeys said 1 year, 1 month ago:

    I’m just wondering how Citroen can say “the turbine wheel deformed in the extreme heat” when the rally has been run in cooler conditions. No, I’m not in Portugal, so I cannot say for sure, but the amount of rain the country has seen is comparable to some of the downpours we’ve had down here of late, and it’s generally been very, very cool.

  • Profile picture of JPedroCQF1 JPedroCQF1 said 1 year, 1 month ago:

    The temperatures have been around the 10 degrees Celsius here so when they talk about extreme heat I can only think that some mudd blocked some cooling entry and the temperatures got a bit too high. Otherwise I think they panicked and started making excuses up. But this is taking my imagination a bit too far, so…

  • Profile picture of Prisoner Monkeys Prisoner Monkeys said 1 year, 1 month ago:

    Well, they claim it was the heat of the engine that caused the part to expand. If that’s the case, they should be less concerned about appealling the decision, and more concerned as to why their engines generate so much heat that a standard part deforms beyond the acceptable margin of error when nobody else is experiencing the problem. Especially considering that the next rallies are in Argentina and Greece, which are typically two of the hotter rallies on the calendar.

  • Profile picture of Ned Flanders Ned Flanders said 1 year, 1 month ago:

    Ostberg is one of my favourite drivers at the moment so I should be glad to see him win. But it´s such an undesirable way to take your maiden win, reminding me of the timing debacle at the 2003 Brazilian GP robbing Giancarlo Fisichella of the chance to celebrate his first win.

    Also, the WRC could do without this right now. They´re trying to rebuild and changing the results after the rally is over is always going to annoy and confuse the casual fan.

    I know rules are rules, and if the car was illegal then I suppose it needed to be penalised, but did the crime warrant exclusion? I recall Sebastien Loeb getting a time penalty after Rally Australia in (I think) 2009 rather than outright exclusion

  • Profile picture of Prisoner Monkeys Prisoner Monkeys said 1 year, 1 month ago:

    @ned-flanders – It’s all well and good to say “they should get a time penalty”, but I think that’s just asking for trouble. As soon as the FIA says that, the teams will push the boundaries of what is acceptable (especially if it comes down to a championship fight), comfortable that the worst that can happen is that they receive a time penalty. Hirvonen won the rally by one minute and fifty-two seconds – what kind of time penalty would be meaningful without affecting the results? The threat of exculsion for technical infringements like this is the most effective way of dealing with things. The teams will not push their luck, because they know that if they get caught, then they will get in serious trouble. It’s happened before, too – in 1995, Toyota were caught using an illegal variable restrictor on the Celica ST205′s turbo. Rule changes at the time made the restrictor opening smaller, and Toyota were concerned that they would lose so much power that they would be unable to compete with the other teams. So they created a variable restrictor that could be adjusted without tampering with the seal on the parts; that way, they could pass pre-event scrutineering, then illegally open the restrictor for the rally, and re-set it and pass post-event scrutineering. They only won the one rally in 1995 (Juha Kankkunen in Corsica), but when the parts were discovered, it was obviously cheating, and they were banned from competition for a year.

    Citroen’s actions with the throttle appear to have been a genuine mistake (a part from the wrong batch somehow made its way into Hirvonen’s car; they’re unsure how it happened), and they claim that the clutch was heavier than the homologated part that they were supposed to be running and so it offered no actual advantage. Nevertheless, the FIA have to exclude them, because the rules are clear on this.

  • Profile picture of AndrewTanner AndrewTanner said 1 year, 1 month ago:

    Just woke up to this news on Petter’s website, bit of a shocker! I guess congratulations are in order for Ostberg. I imagine Loeb won’t be exactly devastated with the result as he now leads the championship again.

    Such a shame for Hirvonen, he had a great rally. That first win will come again.

  • Profile picture of Prisoner Monkeys Prisoner Monkeys said 1 year, 1 month ago:

    @andrewtanner – If I were Loeb, I’d be concerned. The revised result means that Petter Solberg is now within five points of the championship lead.

  • Profile picture of AndrewTanner AndrewTanner said 1 year, 1 month ago:

    It’s an improvement on Hirvonen leading it!

  • Profile picture of Prisoner Monkeys Prisoner Monkeys said 1 year, 1 month ago:

    I’d be more worried about having Solberg chasing me than having Hirvonen lead me.

  • Profile picture of Bradley Downton Bradley Downton said 1 year, 1 month ago:

    With the exception of Hirvonen, I feel most sorry for Ostberg. Im sure this isn’t the way he’d like to claim his first victory, I presume this post event scrutineering comes after the podium? and thus Ostberg wouldn’t have had a chance to celebrate properly. Also, I doubt he’d want to be handed his first win, very sad situation.

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