Forum Replies Created
30th September 2015, 23:58 at 11:58 pm #306449
It certainly was a racing incident.
Massa initially shot himself off from his grid spot slightly towards the middle of the track, but gently began to straighten his car up as he saw Ricciardo accelerating past him. What rules his responsiblity out is that he most likely couldn’t see that Ricciardo was in a sandwich and even if he saw he could safely assume the Red Bull had enough space.
…Because Ricciardo indeed had, but – at the last minute – swerved just a little bit to the left, possibly as a reaction to torque kicking in, or to keep a safe distance from Raikkonen, barely half a metre to his right. In the process he might have misjudged the speed differential to Massa and thought he had already cleared him. In any case, it was such a difficult situation and there is next to no evidence on why Ricciardo swerved that little bit, that I think it’s unreasonable to hold him responsibly either.
Which leaves us at the racing incident label.30th September 2015, 16:04 at 4:04 pm #306418
Well, the onboard video of Hamilton we’ve all been anxiously waiting for is out on Formula1.com and it shows that while Hamilton may have understeered from about T2 apex on, he did not bother putting more steering lock on than on occasions when he tackled the corner by himself.
So basically he did run Rosberg off the road. If Rosberg have had the courage to stand his ground, any responsibility for a crash would have rested on Hamilton’s shoulders this time. (Rosberg was pretty far up alongside Hamilton until quite late in the corner, surprisingly.) Alas, he did not have the courage which, as @klon pointed out, pretty much ‘legitimise’ Hamilton’s move – no penalties are issued for such scenarios, they’re pretty commonplace.
Rosberg is going down, I would say, psychologically, again – not that I expected different in the light of last season. Even Webber, pounded thoroughly by Vettel, had the guts to speak up for himself in such situations. Miserable.22nd September 2015, 22:56 at 10:56 pm #305845
It’s incredible that he’s alright – you don’t even always escape alright from such a crash in a proper race car… He’s one lucky boy.
And Nordschleife is just, it must be mental.16th September 2015, 11:22 at 11:22 am #305251
@hunocsi Yes, that makes some sense – although that’s still only 12 hours and as the Nordschleife is more difficult than Mount Panorama (as I said, the only track that’s more difficult IMO), the GT3 cars are the same and they run twice a length in the 24 hours, I’d always rank the Nurburgring 24 hours above the Bathurst 12 hours.
In general, I think the greatest race ever has to be a) a race taking place on a track as difficult to drive as possible, b) lasting as long as possible distance-wise, consequently c) having the largest burden possible on man and machine endurance and d) have cars as difficult to handle as possible. One can argue a Dakar trumps the Ring 24 hours in most every aspect and I’m inclined to see the two being more or less on the same level. The Dakar’s only drawback is that its competitive length is actually about the same as that of the 24 hours and is truncated into selective stages (hence isn’t a continuous challenge).
We are debating the greatest here, not the hardest, but I somehow think the greatest achievement is the hardest to get so…
Coming back to the Bathurst 12 hours for a moment, the 2014 finish was incredibly tense, I’ll never forget it.14th September 2015, 23:03 at 11:03 pm #305179
@himmatsj and anybody interested or knowing about it as a local: do you think it’ll be more of an issue due to the El Nino or does the latter not have any impact on it? (In other words, is it more of a problem in El Nino years, or it makes no difference.)14th September 2015, 17:21 at 5:21 pm #305171
Some background on the issue:
(Not really F1-related but globally important, I guess.)14th September 2015, 15:12 at 3:12 pm #305167
Good topic, although it may just as well pass under the name of ‘Why the Bathurst 1000 is the greatest race on Earth?’ title, haha. :)
For a start, I thought about what are definitely NOT the greatest race on Earth as of right now despite many billing them as such: the Monaco GP, the Macau GP and possibly the Daytona 500.
The common denominator of the first two in my opinion is that both were undone somewhat by technological development. Cars, even F3 cars, are so quick nowadays that both of these once great street races are rather processional ones – what matters is getting pole and then there’s no passing, no real chance of a pass to be honest. If a quicker car gets behind a slower car, you don’t get the feel of a great battle coming, not even a tense battle, where, for example, there’s a number of laps of agonisingly close attempts and then a pass, because you just know that there is no way the car behind will get past due to the circuit layout.
Yes, the circuits themselves are unique and Macau is possibly the hardest track in the world, especially in an F1 car – it really is ‘Monaco on steroids’ as Daniel Ricciardo put it last year. So they really test driving skills and concentration above all in terms of there’s no mistake allowed – even less so than on the also rather confined Mount Panorama. But that’s just one aspect and both GPs fall short more on other areas compared to the extent by which they outshine Bathurst in terms of driving skills needed (which is neglible).
Daytona 500 is now once again great – it’s still the last 2 laps that counts the most, but you sure as heck got to be in position by then. And it’s not just the two-wide train borefast like it was in 2012 and 2013, it’s pack racing which is entirely unique. Like driving on a highway but with everyone pushing to the limit. Still, I can think of races that test racing teams more to the limit (e. g. the Bathurst 1000).
Then there’s Indy. The 500. It’s not quite like Daytona because you are not flat-out and it’s not pack racing, so while I do acknowledge the skill needed to tackle long, fast corners, like the four on that oval, I think it’s not quite like Bathurst, not to mention Macau or Monaco.
What I think compares to Bathurst in most every terms, is the Le Mans 24 hours or the Nurburgring 24 hours (or Spa maybe, but certainly not those 24s that take place on less difficult circuits, like Dubai). These races are longer than Bathurst so the technical and endurance challenges are both greater for both man and machine, the Ring is arguably the only track in the world (for me) that’s more difficult than Mount Panorama, the cars, the GT ones, are faster than the V8s while still not as downforce-heavy and so less easy to drive than the LMP1s (less flat-out corners), there’s less time to correct mistakes (albeit they might be less difficult to drive than the big bulky V8s) and they also have the historical element – Le Mans is the stronger one on that front.11th September 2015, 10:29 at 10:29 am #304990
Very good topic, I also pondered this idea after the Italian GP and Rosberg having almost doubled his points deficit.
But I did not give it any serious thought as I do not think – whatever the state of play is in the 2015 championship – that we are about to see a turnaround this time. It all proved too academic for me.6th September 2015, 17:56 at 5:56 pm #304586
Probably Verstappen on Button, it was a joy to watch – a 17-year-old against a 35-year-old or something.
However, I do very badly want to see how Ricciardo overtook Ericsson on the last lap. If anybody has video footage, feel free to show me.6th September 2015, 0:37 at 12:37 am #304546
I agree with many of your picks.
As a massive Fernando Alonso fan, I can recall a few others when I felt like he had to ‘do a Valencia 2012′, in other words, outperform his machinery aside from outperforming others. Monza 2010 comes to mind when he and Button ran the whole race basically just 1 second apart. Or Hockenheim 2012, it’s the same practically, but with Vettel also in the picture. Either of of these (I’d say Hockenheim), or Valencia 2012.
And yes, there’s just too much races to pick from for Schumacher. Spa 1995 is another one, or Spa 1997.
For Sebastian Vettel, I’d suggest… Abu Dhabi 2012 perhaps? Or Monza 2008.
For Jim Clark, I’d say it was definitely Monza 1967, although he also had a lot of memorable drives.
Ayrton… a lot would immediately say Donington Park 1993, but I would also throw in the mix a race where he actually DNFed (strange, I know), because what he had done before his spin in Interlagos 1994 was out of this world. Keeping up with Schumacher and annihilating everyone else, including championship contender-to-be teammate Damon Hill – except Schumacher had an awesome car to drive and Senna had a dog. Other than that, a lot of his later drives in 1993 in particular was absolutely magnificent as well, when he did not crash that is. Kyalami 1993 was another fine drive.2nd September 2015, 0:43 at 12:43 am #304118
Leading the charge in the title race was Davey Allison, the third Allison in the sport and arguably the most naturally talented. Despite an early scare in the form of minor damage, he still managed to be in position for the championship for most of the afternoon, eventually taken out by a spinning competitor. Sadly, he lost his life in a helicopter accident a little more than half a year later.
His main opponents with real chances were 1988 cup champion Bill Elliott (his prodigy son Chase Elliott is making his name in NASCAR as we speak) and relative underdog Alan Kulwicki who is probably best remembered – other than this race, that is – as the inventor of the so-called Polish victory lap when one takes on the track backwards as a mark of celebration.
They ran 1-2 in close competition for the latter stages of the race with Elliott jumping Kulwicki during a late pit stop. He seeked to close a 10-point gap to his rival and with a 1-2 they comfortably cleared Allison from the picture. A victory, at that time, yielded 5 points more than 2nd and with both gaining the bonus for leading at least one lap it all came down to who led the most laps which was again worth 5 points. Elliott spent an awful lot in the lead at the end, racking up 102 laps for himself in 1st place and with those 5+5 points he would have beaten Kulwicki on the tie-breaker – but Kulwicki previously led 103 and so was happy to see out the final laps in 2nd place. Astonishingly, he also died mere months later and did so in a plane accident too.
The other three drivers only had mathematical chances – they were Mark Martin, the Stirling Moss of NASCAR who came in 2nd in the overall standings for a grand total of five times and was never crowned champion, Kyle Petty, who worked as a, for me, rather annoying colour commentator until recently, and Harry Gant, about whom I actually don’t know anything.
I caught the footage of the race a few years ago and I felt as if the tension was palpable during the event with the situation going back and forth numberous times. It was awesome to see.30th August 2015, 21:26 at 9:26 pm #303936
+1, obviously. (Fo’ sure, haha. :))
I likewise wish to highlight Keith’s always measured, solid and sensible views. I like to think these words always fit my thinking as well, but it is not so. They do a lot of times, I think, and I can see where we are along the same lines (also with a lot of respected people in the paddock), but then time and again I lose some of that common sense and Keith’s points are often there to pull me back on the ground. I’m thankful for it.
As well as for the site, of course, it’s growing richer with content almost week in week out and it’s great to see (also considering how it began; well, not even how it began but how it was around 2009-2010 – I recall my first regular visits from around that time according to a few old print screens).23rd August 2015, 19:04 at 7:04 pm #303710
While I also adore Verstappen’s guts to make the move around the outside in Blanchimont, I’m also with the Kvyat move on Massa.
Massa is also known as a late braker, so indeed. Kvyat had to be that late (it was so late, I was sure he would not make the corner, it was unbelieavable). With choosing that braking point and then negotiating the bend without slipping either the fronts or the rears (I don’t know how his balance was) actually took more driving skills, I think, then ‘just’ tkaing Blanchimont on an even tighter radius still flat out. (Albeit on the marbles and with higher speed than usual due to the tow Verstappen picked up.)
EDIT: But then again, Kvyat had another hard thing to nail, which was to have the courage to stay in the slipstream very late. Only Alonso stays in as late as Kvyat did today, it takes guts as well. (E. g. I think Perez and Grosjean were much more cautious with it.)10th August 2015, 13:10 at 1:10 pm #303070
@dragoll That’s quite right – stock cars are probably the only remaining vehicles for which the Esses still presents its great challenge. In others, it’s just flat-out sweeps. It’s strange how a corner goes from a beast to zero in an instant once it becomes flat-out.
And yeah, Laguna Seca is not the most renowned place for overtaking, it never was.
However, that’s not to say they aren’t great circuits by themselves.9th August 2015, 10:50 at 10:50 am #303017
It certainly is a tricky proposition although I always thought America has even better ones – like the Glen, Sonoma, Laguna Seca or Road Atlanta. It’s funny how they run their most popular races on ovals (in NASCAR) or on street circuits (in IndyCar, where next to no-one turns up for the ovals), yet they still have a bunch of the best road courses in the world.
In Road America, I always found the Carousel and the blind Turn 4 to be the most difficult corners in the sim, although nailing the big stops, especially Turns 3 and Canada Corner is hard as well. Strangely, I never had issues in the “confidence lift” corners, such as Turn 5 and Turn… 8? (The one after the Carousel.)
NASCAR already ran some special races there, despite it being a relatively recent addition to the XFINITY series calendar. It was here that Alex Tagliani did a monstrous last 2 laps, moving up like 15 spots, after running out of fuel near the end, and it was here that it took the maximum 3 green-white-checkered attempts to finish a race for the first time.