Forum Replies Created
27th November 2013, 17:50 at 5:50 pm #245913
No doubt Alonso made a contribution in 2007as did Hamilton. As for Vettel it’s indisputable that RB would not be where it is without Vettel.
Double diffiuser in 2009 and tyres for PM in 2012.
I may even venture that Hamilton is very teammate friendly in the sense that his teammates seem to benefit from his presence on a team and he “elevates” their performance. I’m not sure if he gets much benefit or if his own performance is elevated by his teammates. His struggles with Alonso, Button as well as Rosberg’s antics on the track this year suggest the opposite.27th November 2013, 16:58 at 4:58 pm #245911
I’m not sure we can use the season-to-season lap improvement of a single GP – track conditions, weather, tyre choices, in season improvements, custom changes just for that GP can easily skew that. If you just look at the qualifying speeds between 2012 and 2013 that didn’t have many regulation changes as far as I know, they are just all over the map.27th November 2013, 15:59 at 3:59 pm #245909
Why do you think Ferrari hired Kimi Raikonnen when LDM and Ferrari have been so staunchly opposed to having “2 roosters in the henhouse”? What prompted such an about-face if not Hamilton’s 474 point swing from McLaren to Mercedes?
It’s not 2 seconds. On a 1′ 40” lap a 1% improvement is 1 second and no driver can bring that. I’m thinking a 0.3%-0.5% improvement which is 0.3 seconds to 0.5 seconds per lap but ultimately the difference between P5 and P2 in the constructors championship.27th November 2013, 15:30 at 3:30 pm #245907
Hamilton, whilst driving well, did not help to build a better car before the season began
I think our difference in opinions stems from the fact that you believe that a car is designed before the season and that no improvements can be made to the car or the team during the winter break and in-season.
On the other hand, I believe there are 3 distinct phases to a car’s development:
1. Development before the winter break
2. Development during the winter break
3. In-season development
I think Mercedes built a good car in phase 1 but it was probably a P4-P5 car. During the winter, Hamilton joined and the car was bumped to a P3-P4 car/team. This is consistent with Merc’s start of the season where they didn’t dominate and Red Bull and Ferrari did better.
Then Hamilton and Rosberg were able to contribute and the car eventually ended up scoring 8 poles (almost 10) and 3 victories with Hamilton being on the front grid pretty much in every race for many GPs. Then the tyres changed and Hamilton (& Merc) simply didn’t have an answer (including many other drivers and constructors).
On the other hand, McLaren built a fundamentally flawed car in Phase 1 but they weren’t able to correct it in Phases 2 and 3. With Hamilton, however, they would have been able to do better and secure a podium – perhaps he would have taken the team in a different direction and they would have avoided their disastrous season or saved face.27th November 2013, 14:26 at 2:26 pm #245904
Like I said some will agree, some will disagree. It all depends on what impact you believe a driver has. In any other sport we would not question that. For instance, if Messi left Barca and they scored 100 fewer goals during the season, we’d put down a lot of that to Messi. If the other team won the Champions League that Messi joined, we’d put that down to Messi.
Look at it the other way, if McLaren had scored 860 points this year (43 pts per race), wouldn’t we all say that they are better off without Hamilton and that Hamilton affected the team negatively?
F1 is a zero-sum game – the points gained by 1 team come at a loss for another team as there is a finite number of points. All the points lost by McLaren went to Mercedes, that cannot be coincidence especially when Merc was floundering at the end of the last season. If they had a clue, they would have fixed the W03 chassis.
Hamilton brought clarity and unity to the team and McLaren lost that. What was the net effect of that? Maybe a 0.3%-0.5% improvement which in terms of points is around 250 points and in terms of money, maybe 80 million dollars or a little more.26th November 2013, 16:16 at 4:16 pm #245810
@Andae23 I don’t know about the team radio – I love it :-) Less censoring of radio chatter would be great – I would love to hear the drivers cursing at each other!
@looseasagoose what a fantastic idea about making F1 content from previous seasons available on the F1 website or through some other means like youtube or other content providers. I would love to go back and watch some older seasons. They could even make it profitable by adding commercials every 20 minutes or so like any other content provider. The FIA has the responsibility of preserving this sport for posterity!
Also, I know it’s new and not everyone has a 3d TV yet but I would love to be able to view a little bit of F1 Formula in 3D!26th November 2013, 15:31 at 3:31 pm #245898
Sure, I would be glad to explain where the number came from. Mercedes gained 218 points and McLaren lost 256 points. The net effect is 218 + 256 = 474 points26th November 2013, 13:48 at 1:48 pm #245895
If you’ve watched Hamilton’s interviews recently then you know he’s not happy with himself and in my opinion he shouldn’t be.
At the same time, this season after Hamilton’s move we’ve seen McLaren collapse to P5 and Mercedes rise to P2.
Here’s the shift in points between the teams:
Mercedes: 142 pts to 360 pts – a 250% increase
McLaren: 378 pts to 122 pts – a 300% decrease (reversed for comparison)
All in all, there was a shift of 474 points from McLaren to Mercedes. That is more than Vettel scored this season (397) and more than enough to win the WCC.
Was Hamilton the reason for the shift? It depends on who you ask. My argument is how is it possible for Mercedes engineering to negatively impact McLaren since the teams are independent and the only common link was…Hamilton.
I was dragged into an argument with some other member as to what drivers bring to the table – it’s a common belief that they only bring the keys to start the car (that’s a joke btw for the unfunny minority)
Also in the important stats Hamilton had 5 poles (nearly 6) and nearly 2 victories which is double Rosberg’s adjusted stats. Yes Rosberg had 2 victories but he inherited the 2nd one from Lewis.
Still he was off in my book and in his book. If the Pirellis stay, he needs to get on top of them!25th November 2013, 21:15 at 9:15 pm #245803
Won’t removal of the rpm limit affect top speed and general performance? My understanding is that teams can make these cars too fast and too dangerous for the drivers and that the rules and there to limit them for safety purposes (if driving at 200 mph can be considered safe)
What’s the rationale for wider cars? Sorry I had to ask:-)25th November 2013, 20:29 at 8:29 pm #245801
I agree – DRS with good performance tyres is fine and adds a strategic component as we all wait to see if the driver is going to make it within 1 second and then will he able to pass in the DRS zone?
I think if the tyres are fixed, DRS can stay.
- Better Tyres
- More in-season testing
- Better distribution of wealth
- Less reliance on pay drivers
- More teams and 1 team for Red Bull in F1 (they are welcome to have another one in another category)
Here’s my change to all this – an award of sorts for the back and mid-field teams – let them fight to win something amongst themselves. If they can’t fight for wins or the WDC, give them another award and a place on the podium25th November 2013, 18:14 at 6:14 pm #245835
Not sure how Grosjean could be on top of Raikonnen.
Not sure how Webber could be so low except in comparison to Vettel.
Where’s Alonso? A score 8 from LDM is like a 6 in the old figure skating scoring system:-)
If you ask Hamliton himself, he would put himself there but the truth is that McLaren has nearly collapsed after Hamilton’s departure and Mercedes has become a powerhouse. A lot of that must come from Lewis. From an on-track performance, I would put him in P6 but from a team perspective, I think he deserves to be 2nd or 3rd on that list. Other Vettel and maybe Bianchi (did he clinch P10 for Marussia?), no one brought more to their team than Hamilton did this year.25th November 2013, 17:16 at 5:16 pm #237748
Well, Vettel has done it!
He has beaten his 2011 season in terms of points by winning 9 GPs which is the only way he could have done that as P2 in any of those races would have dropped him from 397 to 390 points.
He also scored enough points to win the WCC alone as Mercedes which was 2nd in the WCC standings only scored 360 points.
Over the 5 past seasons here’s where Vettel was by the end of the season:
In 2009 he had 206 points*, 4 victories, and 8 podiums – 2nd in the WDC
In 2010 he had 256 points, 5 victories, and 10 podiums – Champion
In 2011 he had 392 points, 11 victories, and 17 podiums – Champion
In 2012 he had 281 points, 5 victories, and 10 podiums – Champion
In 2013 he has 397 points, 13 victories, and 16 podiums – Champion
There’s actually one stat that he has not improved since 2011 and that’s the number of podiums – 16 in 2013 versus 17 in 2011!
For the sake of our sanity, let’s hope he doesn’t beat it in 2014:-) Hopefully, he’ll wait a couple of years before breaking that.
* 2009 points adjusted for new scoring system25th November 2013, 1:08 at 1:08 am #245631
So who drinks that stuff? ;-)19th November 2013, 19:36 at 7:36 pm #245509
During the past seasons, we had so many incidents. To quote a few:
1. Button hitting Hamilton in 2011 in Montreal – his spin in the same race?
2. Hamilton’s spin in Hungary in 2011
3. Hamilton and Massa going at it in 2011
4. Maldonado in 2012
5. Grosjean in 2012
6. Schumacher in 2011 and 2012
7. Hulkenberg with Hamilton in Brazil 2012
8. Senna and Kobayashi incidents
8. Vettel/Karthikeyan – Vettel Abu Dhabi/Brazil
I do agree the cars are too planted and that the drivers are really not pushing because that’s the only explanation especially when we consider that there were 5 rookies this season – namely, Bottas, Gutierrez, VanDerGarde, Bianchi, and Chilton.
Even in qualifying, all drivers are giving clinical performances.19th November 2013, 13:46 at 1:46 pm #245085