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  • #217790
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    Thomas
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    I saw the video of that and I couldn’t believe how lame it was.

    #216701
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    Thomas
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    Alonso and Hamilton at the top.

    Then Vettel.

    #177211
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    Thomas
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    I don’t think ive ever seen him overtake an equal car. Particularly outside of a DRS zone.

    He only overtakes slower cars.

    #216417
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    Thomas
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    I’ll just wait and read. Always a good read.

    #216414
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    Thomas
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    Without doing the numbers I already know Hamilton wins. I just want to see by how much.

    #207874
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    Thomas
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    I’ve never heard Vettel being told to “maintain the gap” or having bits taken off his car to give to Webber.

    The origins of the concept of favoritism are well justified.

    #207873
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    Thomas
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    @ David-A

    They settled for 8th when they could have had 4th at Hungary. It was bad strategy.

    Even Webber himself said so.

    And as for Monza 2010, yes they went with the run long strategy for Vettel to try and gain positions. It was essentially Webber they were racing so he was their goal.

    #207867
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    Thomas
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    I don’t get why Monza 2010 is a ‘conspiracy’. I never for once said there was some weird conspiracy to sabotage Webber.

    They simply gave Vettel the better strategy in an attempt to get him ahead. It was fairly blatant.

    The same thing happened at the Hungarian GP this year, they pit Webber unnecessary with 8 laps to go so they could pit Vettel and give him a clear run at Grosjean. If they didn’t pit Webber, Vettel would end up either behind him, or slowed by him.

    @David-A Again with the term ‘conspiracy’. There is usually two strategies in Formula 1, one being superior, if one driver always gets put on that strategy there is no conspiracy. A conspiracy is an alien cover up or a faked moon landing. A superior strategy is a ‘reality’.

    And if anyone questions it? Why would they put Vettel on the one stop strategy? Its not so that he would lose time, its because they felt he could gain positions using it. Otherwise they wouldn’t put him on that strategy.

    #206437
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    Thomas
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    I think Power is going to lose this right at the end after leading all season. He has a hold on second place seemingly.

    #207850
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    Thomas
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    I’m convinced that Red Bull are spending massive and unreasonable amounts of money on development in ways that the FIA will not approve of, and then trying to kill any regulations that might show exactly what they’re up to because they know that if they get found out, at the very least they’ll slide back down the grid (and at worst, get heavy penalties for what they are doing). To then claim that their opposition to such rules is for the good of the sport – and not for self-preservation – is a slap in the face, and one that they seem to expect up to be thankful for.

    And when they got called out on the budget they simply left the teams association. In many ways its a joke how poorly Red Bull is performing this year, they have the biggest budget in the sport and the best personal for all position.

    I also feel Red Bull is a fly by wire drink brand, they don’t care about F1 heritage it is just a big marketing operation. They will do anything for marketing promotion and when they stop winning they will be gone. I really think the odds are against them this year and with the type of form Vettel has shown so far this weekend at Spa he very well could lose even more ground in the championship.

    Coming back from 30 points behind with the fastest car in 2010 is one thing, coming from 50 points behind in a car that isn’t dominant is another, particularly when your team mate appears to have the upper hand.

    #207849
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    Thomas
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    I’m not sure there are any examples of Red Bull cheating, in fairness. Brinksmanship is the essence of F1; you can’t call it cheating just because you don’t like the team.

    I’m more refering to them manipulating hardware and strategy to place Vettel ahead of Webber. It happens alot.

    Ie Istanbul 2010- Webber was told to turn down his engine for fuel saving so that Vettel could simply breeze past.
    Silverstone 2010- Speaks for itself.
    Monza 2010- Vettel was ran long so that he would jump Webber who was currently ahead of him.

    Vettel always gets the “optimal” strategy.

    Red Bull will also bend over backwards to suit Vettel. For instance this year he was unhappy with the car so Red Bull ran two entirely different cars to suit Seb. But in 2011 Mark was unhappy with the new-for-2011 clutch but Red Bull didn’t do anything about it until Vettel sealed the title, once they changed the system Webbers starts were back to normal.

    You could write an essay on the strategic errors and favoritism that Vettel gets within the team. That is why I consider they cheat.

    The mechanical cheating is a whole different issue.

    #207846
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    Thomas
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    Its to do with RBR itself.

    As is seen in this thread, Red Bull is seen as the ‘bad guys’ of F1. This comes from their smugness particularly team bosses like Christian Horner and Helmut Marko. They are the most unlikable faces of Formula 1.

    Coming from all of this, Vettel is Red Bull’s chosen one. They will defend him and cheat for him. He is not a particularly likeable character in that he sulks when he loses and he gives everyone the big one finger salute.

    Alot of the other hatred stems from the teams treatment of Webber, they clearly favoritize Vettel and many feel this isn’t fair. Webber is extremely well liked and the teams subordination of him and refusal to support him has made them be seen in even lesser light. Add into the fact that when Webber was misfairly treated Vettel was far from polite about this and often had that smug grin and he is lopped in with the ‘bad’ guys at Red Bull, and Webber is seen as the outsider.

    Vettel can be pleasant and funny, but he is a not a likeable character. I’m sure if he went to Ferrari and got beaten by Alonso for a season people would celebrate when he won, but currently he is just the poster child for the most unlikable team in F1.

    #207703
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    Thomas
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    Why is it that Villeneuve can win in Nascar but he comes dead last in V8 Supercars.

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