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  • #215437
    Avatar of RBAlonso
    RBAlonso
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    @mnmracer Its not about this year! You ask me for facts but provide no performance deviation information to the mclaren. I have mentioned that RB have won the most races this year. Most poles. Most concecutive laps led. You can not argue that Mclaren have been the team to beat in every race because during the middle of the season that was not the case. They have been competitive at the start and end but that does not mean overall. Since DDRS has came in the game has changed and RB are the team to beat. In India as well as texas, they led every practice session took pole. In the early season there were 6 teams winning races but when the music stopped, Vettel has been near untouchable. Hamilton has rivalled him in terms of race pace but not in terms of poles, session victories and overall race wins.

    #215435
    Avatar of RBAlonso
    RBAlonso
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    @mnmracer. That’s rubbish as Williams didn’t win a race in 1998 when RB are constructors champions. There is no comparison here. I understand that as a Vettel fan you are riled by people saying the car is the key factor for his success. But denying that the car is dominant in this phase of the season when it has won more races and poles than any other team is not the truth. They would not be constructors champions with a race in hand if they were not competitive. Once again this is over 3 years where they have swept all before them. This season they are as better than anyone else, last season they were undisputably dominant and the season before that they were unbelievably domiant (by your measure) in the races they finished.

    #215432
    Avatar of RBAlonso
    RBAlonso
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    @mnmracer yes but this thread describes red bull over 3 years of which they have already earned 5 of the 6 titles available and are leading by a handsome margin in the other. You can’t have the accolades that RB have without being dominant or the best team for the majority of the races.

    #215367
    Avatar of RBAlonso
    RBAlonso
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    @raymondu999 porn created by a 16 year old. Careful! ;)

    #215430
    Avatar of RBAlonso
    RBAlonso
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    @david-a Certainly but no one has been dominant over the whole campaign.

    @mnmracer so if a car was on pole in every race and won every race that wouldn’t be dominant. Domination like we saw in the 90′s will never happen again. It was as all F1 teams were completing the transition to be permanent, professional racing teams. We will never see 2 cars 2 seconds above the field every lap again. The very view of dominance has changed, to being about winning on different circuit types not by how long.

    Yes McLaren are quick, but you can’t win 34 wins from 3 and a half seasons which have have 6 teams win and not be dominant. Your argument about mclarens domination is only possible if you accept that in 2011 RB were dominant.

    #215365
    Avatar of RBAlonso
    RBAlonso
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    @raymondu999 Quite right, still an obscene level of dominance for a one car class!

    #215335
    Avatar of RBAlonso
    RBAlonso
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    in 2004 Vettel won 15 of 16 races. Thats surely domination. Also, Top Gear challenges are not an accurate representation of driver skill.

    #215427
    Avatar of RBAlonso
    RBAlonso
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    @mnmracer how can a car that lead for four races in a row not be classed as dominant. If dominance means outright pace at every circuit then obviously in 2012 no one is dominant. But given thats since Singapore RB have won 4 races, recovered to the podium from the pit lane and lost the last race due to a backmakers interference, whilst being on pole on 4 out of 6 races, they are obviously the team to beat.

    #198881
    Avatar of RBAlonso
    RBAlonso
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    This leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Not because Fernando is 10th, but because the list had a great deal of promise and now looks like its a flavour of the month or a journalists favourite. Stats and facts are by no means a be-all-and-end-all but the man has just won his 30th GP. 5th highest of all time. I’m not saying he deserves to be fifth but not tenth. I would have placed him eighth tbh. Senna, Clark, Fangio, Schumacher, Prost, Stewart, Lauda I would place above him, though that is no embarrassment. IIRC the last f1 racing article had him around there which I believed to be about justified. On the back of this season, 8th would be entirely justified, bias aside. Then, who knows? If his form continues then he may be able to nudge into the top table. Alonso has proven time and again that he can win races in inferior machinery but what makes him stand out for me is his consistency when in top cars. I also think that he has driven flawlessly for the past 2 years now. The first half season was riddled with silly errors but, importantly, the performance was there. I just think this list sells him rather short.

    #198715
    Avatar of RBAlonso
    RBAlonso
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    I usually demand Senna comes out on top of these polls, which he does however I feel that cos its Murray drivers from the sixty’s and earlier should not simply be forgotten. Moss famously said it took him five years to learn how to properly brake and all drivers need time to adapt to racing. This is why I am so heavily in favour of Clark. He started racing in the summer of ’56 yet was an f1 driver by 1960. If you discount (and I know this is controversial and in many was re-writing history) his first 2 seasons of f1 then Clark’s record is almost unbelievable. Of the 58 starts he made, he won 25, was on pole 33 times, on the podium 29 times and retired from 20. He finished out of the points 4 times in 6 full seasons. Of those four races, Clark led in Monza ’65 until his fuel pump failed with 12 laps remaining, he led the first 11 laps of the 62 Dutch GP before finishing 10 laps down (safe to say he retired but is still classified) and in the ’64 US GP he had fuel injection issues and only completed 102 of the 110 laps yet had set fastest lap and pole.

    What impresses me about Clark is that he was always quick, always. He either finished on the podium or had a mechanical problem. A truly staggering record.

    #199561
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    RBAlonso
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    @keithcollantine could you link this forum in the round-up please? I would love to see everyones views on this subject

    #199560
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    RBAlonso
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    I would like to lobby for either Hunt, Senna or Villleneuve as I feel they’re stories are spectacular. Also, in that regard Fangio who worked like a slave for years and won for many constructors. But ultimately I have chosen Jimmy Clark. Maybe not the playboy or have a particularly interesting backing story but just a guy who loved to race, couldn’t understand why he was so brilliant and therefore was incredibly modest and likeable. There will never be another like him. Not only that he did it with his friend, Colin Chapman. A true hero.

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