Compromise, stalemate, war: What will be the outcome of F1’s budget cap talks?

Posted on | Author Keith Collantine

Toyota is among the teams demanding better governance of Formula 1
Toyota is among the teams demanding better governance of Formula 1

Ferrari, Toyota, Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Renault are threatening not to participate in the 2010 world championship.

With the deadline for entries just two weeks away, the teams’ representatives are meeting FIA president Max Mosley and commercial boss Bernie Ecclestone to hammer out a deal.

Will they get the job done? Will the impasse drag on closer to the deadline? Or will F1 take another step towards civil war?

What Mosley wants

Mosley claims his interest is ensuring F1 has a decent complement of teams. That means the likes of USGPE, Prodrive, iSport, Litespeed, Lola (the latter two making significant announcements yesterday) or others entering next year.

Alternatively, it means getting the present manufacturer-backed teams to give a commitment to stay. As Mosley wrote in his letter to Luca di Montezemolo:

We have already lost one manufacturer [Honda]. Despite my repeated requests, not a single manufacturer has given us a legally-binding undertaking that it will continue in Formula 1.
Max Mosley

In the absence of guarantees from the manufacturer teams (although Ferrari did agree in 2005 to extend its terms with the FIA from 2008 to 2012, for which they received a substantial cash reward), Mosley is pushing for a budget cap to ensure new teams can join at short notice.

It’s worth putting Mosley’s latest demand into context. Twelve months ago he was arguing for a budget cap of ??140m in 2010 and ??110m in 2011, excluding the cost of engines, KERS, marketing and salaries for drivers and team principals.

Since then cost cuts agreed by FOTA have gone some way towards achieving that reduction without resorting to budget caps.

Mosley’s latest budget cap proposal calls for a ??40m (??44.6m) budget cap which excludes marketing costs and driver salaries but includes engine and KERS costs, and staff salaries.

Mosley has vacillated between a number of seemingly contradictory positions. He has repeatedly called for car parts that are not ‘performance differentiators’ to be standardised to save money. Yet now he is criticising the teams for opposing his budget cap proposal which would allow for greater technical freedom. From the same letter:

We would eliminate the need for the depressing restrictions on technology which the existing teams are discussing with a view to reducing costs.
Max Mosley

It’s hard to escape the depressing view that Mosley only wants to have an argument and win it, with little regard to the consequences.

What the teams want

Ferrari’s threat to quit F1 has garnered much attention (there’s a lesson here for anyone who underestimates their importance to F1). Yesterday they produced Piero Ferrari, sat him in front of a huge photograph of his father Enzo, and had him talk about how their threat to quit the sport is perfectly serious.

The budget caps aspect has gained the most attention so far but many (perhaps all) of the teams are not objecting to this in principle, just the low level it has been set at.

Above all, they are complaining about the inherent problems the FIA’s ‘two-tier’ system would cause and the manner in which it was introduced:

If you consider the single thread running through all team’s similar statements it is a wish to establish a correct and proper basis of governance for the sport.

There is clearly a genuine wish for all to continue to compete in Formula 1 but only if future stability is assured.

To secure this, the priority for the future is a process of governance which ensures all competitors compete under the same rules, that the regulations are stable and which establishes a platform from which costs can be sensibly and actively reduced without destroying the core DNA of the sport.
John Howett, Toyota

Mosley claims the budget cap was agreed at the World Motor Sports Council meeting on March 17th. Also, although he does not go so far as to use the words ‘force majeure’, he also argues in his letter the Montezemolo that the prevailing economic conditions make it necessary for the rules to be forced through.

Would the teams go so far as to demand Mosley steps down in exchange for their commitment to participate in the future? They will surely remind him that, while canvassing to win a vote of confidence from the FIA Senate last year, he promised not to contest the forthcoming FIA president elections.

Which brings us to the third party in the room: Bernie Ecclestone. If the manufacturers promised to stay if Mosley stepped down from the presidency, who would Ecclestone back?

What Ecclestone wants

As ever the short answer is “money”.

And that means keeping the manufacturers in the sport. Ever since Mosley’s boast that “F1 could survive without Ferrari” Ecclestone has been at pains to keep the Scuderia on-side:

Formula 1 is Ferrari and Ferrari is Formula 1. It’s just a marriage made in heaven, one of those super things that work well.

This might be putting things rather generously, but it gets close to the heart of the situation.

As Dieter Rencken argues in Autosport this month (sub. req.), without Ferrari and many of the other manufacturer teams F1 would be poorer not just figuratively, but literally as well. Why else would the proposed budget cap leave their marketing spend unrestricted?

Striking a deal

Either because of the huge sums of money involved, or the equally large egos, or both, it seems F1 is incapable of sorting out its problems without generating massive antagonism.

Can they finally reach a compromise? Will brinkmanship drive the parties to the eve of the May 29th deadline before reaching an agreement? Or will the sport take another perilous step towards a split?

70 comments on “Compromise, stalemate, war: What will be the outcome of F1’s budget cap talks?”

  1. ILoveVettel
    15th May 2009, 7:27

    Keith, if all members of FOTA agrees to sign for non-budget capped rule than what is the issue with that?

    Because a new team obviously can not make grounds in an year to win the championship!!!!!

    1. Brawn are NOT a new team

  2. No wonder that Bernie is saying ‘ its just a marriage made in heaven’ regarding Ferrari, if they have had the veto on any technical regs proposed by the FIA for the last decade, and Bernie was giving them extra cash. It is probably time for a divorce! Maybe Ron Dennis had a strong suspicion of this, which may partly explain why he was at loggerheads with the FIA for so long.

    1. joseph mccallum
      16th May 2009, 20:59

      As a loyal ferrari supporter through good and bad times,not just ferrari is f1 all manufacturer teams are fi ,there is a place for smaller Are we going back to the 2tier situation of turbo non turbo championship. I dont feel it was bad for the sport,it gave recognition to less financially wealthy teams

  3. Just a thought: How can the teams that sign up to the £40M Budget Cap have technical freedom as well? Doesn’t developing new technology cost money? And how can the teams that don’t agree to the budget build cars if they have restrictions? What are they going to spend the money on exactly?
    Added to the fact that Max wants more standardised parts (including KERS) in the future, who wants to be a racing car designer from next year?
    Its a lose-lose situation however you look at it. And it isn’t Formula 1.

    1. Martin Bell
      15th May 2009, 8:39

      As someone else has noted in relation to the budget cap, teams will have technical freedom to build parts they can’t afford!!!!!! The cap in itself is a sensible idea, I think we all know that it will just result in more court cases between teams about who is spending money on what, and whether it falls within the rules. To paraphrase someone else “Gentlemen, start your accountants!”

    2. It’s a lot cheaper to build a fast car if restrictions are not holding you back.

      For instance, the moveable rear wing is said to cut 1.5 to 2 seconds off the lap times. A big budget is never going to compete with cheap and big advances like that.

      I think the deal is also more that teams can decide on their own what they want.

      For instance now there is the ‘no testing at all’ rule. That’s silly. With the budget cap they can go testing on track if they want to, but obviously then they will have less money left for wind tunnel testing. It leaves the choice to the teams and would allow for more reasonable development.

    3. Patrickl

      It’s a lot cheaper to build a fast car if restrictions are not holding you back.

      Lack of money is a restriction. Technical freedom is no good if you don’t have the funds to explore the possibilities.

      But that is besides the point. The objecting teams do not want a two tier formula, they are not opposed to a budget cap.

    4. Well the question was how they can build a faster car on a lower budget and I explained how.

      Actually the resistance against the 2 tier regulations is simply ridiculous. The big teams know they can never beat a budget capped car. So even though technically there is a 2 tier regulation, in reality everybody is forced to use the budget cap.

  4. It’s a game of who blink’s first who has the biggest balls.I personlly think you are right re:MONEY if ferrari leaves you can you will see the diffirence in the stands there ofcourse will be a flow down through all the rite’s issue which will surely be slashed.Bernie aint stupid he will see the interest payment’s he has to make getting harder and harder, MAX is about to have a very large fall.Bernie needs a fall guy MAX and all those poor teams he has conned are about to realise what F1 is all about.

  5. Jonesracing82
    15th May 2009, 9:11

    i reckon the cap idea is brilliant, return of quali engines etc as they can spend and spend all they like on differant things (this means no standard parts) and they wont go bust as they can only spend a certain amount!
    if the cap was in yrs ago, teams like Tyrrell and Jordan would still be in! evenb tho Ken is sadly no longer with us, teams like his are a part of history and rightly so, they r the teams that stay in F1 tyill they go bust, the Manufacturors come and go as the please.
    also it could b possibly to extend above 13 teams! as if teams don’t qualify and have to go home b4 the race, they can still stay afloat. the most important thing from a fans point of view, the cap wont affect the racing we see whatsoever!

    1. Of course the Tyrell team is now… Brawn GP. What goes around…

  6. HounslowBusGarage
    15th May 2009, 9:21

    I think Max is being very over-optimistic in believing that any Manufacturer will give a legally-binding committment to *anything* just at the moment.
    It would be simply a mechanism for the FIA to wring money out of the Manufacturers.
    Has Max made the same legally-binding request of the independent teams as well? Williams, Brawn, Force India etc?
    I still think Max wants the Manufacturers out of F1 because they don’t have F1 as their sole reason for existence, and they cannot therefore be bullied and totally dominated by the FIA as the independent teams can.
    And yes, I think the Manufacturers are threatening not to sign up for 2010 if Max stays in the FIA chair. F1 costs them loadsa money that their shareholders would prefer as dividends. Difficult for the Manufacturers to justify involvement with a disgraced perv in charge of the racing. Doesn’t do well for marketing values, does it?
    And Bernie? He will just go where the gravy is deepest, making stupid assertions like “All the teams agree witht the medals idea” as he goes.

  7. I think regarding your article Keith that ultimately sense will prevail and a compromise will be sought between the teams and the FIA. Though i doubt it will be resolved before 2th May deadline.
    The FIA may have to readjust the deadline to allow for more detailed discussions.
    Max Mosley is not want to back down, or be seen to back down, unless the teams and Bernie can come up with a solution that doesn’t make him look bad.
    BUt if Mosley stands his ground then the teams need to also.
    Flavio Briatore says in autosport that “a solution must be found at all costs”, which to me sounds a lot like the teams are ready, willing, and able to say goodbye to F1 if Mosley get his way.
    Of course other people have commented that Mosley never really intended on the £40m cap and just wanted the teams to agree some sort of cap so they could get into their books and control the teams more.
    There is no better time than now in Formula One to oust Mosley. I’m sure the people who backed him last year are thinking twice about it now, and it’s clear that he never intended on stepping down this year.
    I have said before that Max Mosley is a sociopath and doesn’t live to the same rules as the rest of us. To him going back on his word is NOT lying, it’s normal to him.
    The teams could get the backing of the racing clubs around the globe if Mosley does not come up with a compromise and if they had Monaco on their side for a breakaway series then the FIA wouldn’t stand a chance and would have to give in.

    Personally i would say a compromise is is desperately needed. But not just a gesture from FIA. Not only do they need to backtrack on the budget cap limit, but they need stabilise the regulations for the sport. Ever changing rules just costs millions if not billions for the sport. For instance if they have the £40m cap and new teams come in and that is all they can afford to run in F1 then how are they going to afford all the new rule changes after 2010, because they are sure to have changes in 2011, 2012, and beyond and it all costs money.
    Money would be saved in a big way if they just left them alone to get on with the racing.

    And that is what all the fans want really. None of this off track crap. Just simple…cars racing each other fairly around decent tracks for a good championship.

    So what i would want from a compromise(a big compromise) is

    1. budget cap raised to a sensible limit and reduced over a number of seasons. for newer teams who want to come in at the £40m cap from either Bernie or the rest of the teams.
    3. Max Mosley to sign a contract to say he will definitely step down this year, or step down immediately.
    4. Ditch the 2 tier sytem because it is unworkable.
    5. stabilise the regulations and put a cap on them. Say no new changes for at least 3 – 5 years.

    As for no. 3 If they get Max to step down who will replace him? Personally i wouldn’t trust anyone in the FIA to take over. They should have gotten rid of the dictator last year.

  8. Regarding Ferrari – according to Badger’s Pie of Possibility they won’t be quitting F1.

    Would love to be a fly on the wall at that meeting today!

  9. Would the teams go so far as to demand Mosley steps down in exchange for their commitment to participate in the future?

    I had never considered that the teams might take things that far – but it makes perfect sense that Max could get the chop when the knives are out.

  10. Brillantly articulated Keith! I just sure hope these guys sit down and re-think their guarded positions!
    Quite frankly, the reason why F1 is a sport above the rest is the kind of money invlolved – its the ace of racing, without which it will simply be comparable to just any type racing!

  11. Very well put Keith. Missed you on Sky, hopefully you can YouTube it.
    If F1 is ever to achieve stability both Mosley and FOG must go. Max private life is his own but he does seem to have been de-stabilised by it’s exposure, the smell of revenge is in the air.

    FOG adds an unnecessary level of profit burden which contributes nothing to the racing or to the reasonable expectations of the competitors.

    Mosley has ignored the huge amounts taken out of the sport, not seeing that as a wasteful part of the F! cake. Perhaps that is the worst of his misjudgements.

  12. Another great article Keith.

    I think a compromise will be achieved but it may well be after the deadline for 2010 entries has passed.

    The proposal that Mosley made twelve months which you mentioned in your article, was a sensible starting point and if the FIA had tried to push that through with only one set of regulations I think more people would agree with it.

    But the current optional budget cap of £40m for next season with two sets of regulations is just ridiculous. It is hard not to agree with your point that Mosley only wants an argument.

    I have read that Mercedes have said they won’t be quitting F1, but lets face it there is no point them making a threat to quit as Mosley would love to see McLaren leave F1.

  13. What an excellent analysis.

  14. Great article Keith.

    I honestly think the issue is not the costs, the issue is the revenues of F1, and it’s distribution:

    FOM-CVC who retain the biggest part of them, due to the Debt and interest expenses FOM has to pay each year. And they have to pay it , because Bernie and his partner/dog Max have became millionare in the process, btw.

    So, Less income for FOM=>Less money for the teams=>

    Bernie:”Max, please, ask the teams to reduce considerably their budgets because I will not pay them what they were used to.”

    Max: “Don’t worry, I’m not going to ask them, I will change the rules, making possible to “Yes Sir” Teams enter into the competition, so F*** big Teams, if they don’t want to be here.”

    Bernie: “Well, let me see what is going to happen with our current sponsors, just in case…”

    What my heart says to me: Big Teams lshould eave Formula one and stablish a new competition: “Formula 0” letting Max and Bernie going bankruptcy managing a Formula one with Lola, Litespeed, USF1, prodrive…

    What my head says to me: Today, Bernie will set the principles of a new “concorde agreement with FOTA” and, hopefully Max will have to resign in october if not now. Everything will return to business as usual and all fans will be talking again about who is going to challenge Brawn Cars…

    We will know soon…

  15. From Autosport:
    Ferrari is represented by team principal Stefano Domenicali today as FOTA and Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo is unable to attend after the death of his father yesterday.

  16. I have been puzzling why everyone who knows him says that Mosley is so very clever while all we see in the North Korean model of governance.
    Could it be that he wants to retrieve his greatest disaster by using the teams to disenfranchise FOG/etc.
    This would also appeal to the conspiracy theorists among us and regain the affection of F1 fans.
    Weight is lent to this by his readiness to replace FOTA with F2, Indy Car and go-cart teams, perhaps with added sound like a Euro electrical car and bring back the era where my team leader could do her ironing while watching a race, the only sport where that was possible. (Lewis wrecked that and now Jenson too)
    He could offer the umbrella of FIA to the breakaway group 2 years down the line with agreed stability once FOG/etc are gone. And retire into the sunset loved by all who knew his blessed name. Yeah.

  17. Bigbadderboom
    15th May 2009, 13:06

    I really don’t think we can underestimate the seriousness of the Ferrari threat, however as this situation has developed through the press and various forums i read, i get the distinct feeling Max’s position is weakening.

    If Ferrari and another big name pull out where does FOM stand with contractual obligations to the TV rights owners?

    If the budget cap is considerably increased (as most suspect) where does that leave the 3 new potential teams looking to enter for 2010? LOLA are looking to race for £40 million, as are USGP.

    F1 is the pinnacle of motorsport, and it’s governance has increasingly come into question this season. There are some very clever and powerful people involoved, Max normally comes out on top in any 1 to 1 battle, this time I think he has bitten off more than he can chew.

    Bernies support for Max runs only as deep as the pile of cash he sits on. His tune has already softened. Although he says his biggest regret in his life was “letting down his good friend” over the sex scandal, I wouldn’t bet against Bernie switching sides again!!

    Are we seeing the beggining of the end for Max? God I hope so!

    1. I guess the choice is between Ferrari and Renault etc, leaving, and Lola, USGP etc. joining. Which one would you choose (if you couldn’t have both)?

  18. It’s hard to escape the ‘depressing’ view that Mosley only wants to have an argument and win it, with little regard to the consequences.

    That sentence pretty much summed up the whole affair for me in a nutshell! I really thing we’re on the cusp of something major here.

  19. schumi the greatest
    15th May 2009, 13:15

    well another scandal that f1 brings on itself.

    i remember the dozens of comments on this site after “liar-gate” (i hate it when every scandal becomes so&so-gate) lets get back to the racing.

    couple of weeks later here we are again.

    I think the budget cap is a great idea because the ridiculous amounts of money beiong spent had to come to an end.

    I Think realistically max didnt expect to get the teams down to 40mil. he knew that no matter what figure he said the top teams would want to push that back up a bit. the problem is the two tire rules which is just pure luncay!

    is thre going to be sperate championship for the capped and un capped teams??

    if f1 becomes like that i dont think il be watching it!

    ive just finished readin eddie jordans biography (i bought it before i realised how annoying he would be on the bbc) when he 1st started in f1 Jordan grand prix had 45 team members. in 2002 it had 265. in 2002 they were employing 225 more people to do the same job. this just shows the utter madness of f1. and jordan was 1 of the smaller teams.

    Bernie needs to stop fleecing everyone, hes a billionaire for god sake he doesnt need the money. max just has to go plain and simple the guy is a control freak and an utter prat!

    the teams & circuits should be receiving much more of the profits from the sport.

  20. I predict there will be a compromise. Each side will claim they stood their ground, didn’t back down and got what they wanted when in reality the compromise will satisfy neither side entirely and the sport will likely be the all the worse for it. Also somewhere will be something, possibly in the small print or even unmentioned, that was not on the agenda and was not part of the furor but that will be significant and unexpected! Well that’s me done playing Mystic Meg see you in the future.

  21. GooddayBruce
    15th May 2009, 13:36

    It’s hard to escape the depressing view that Mosley only wants to have an argument and win it, with little regard to the consequences.

    Bang on Keith! This is what he has been doing for years. Ever since his good work on safety since Senna died he has just been causing trouble. He approaches everything as an intellectual duel and he really get on my nerves.

    Time to go Max!

  22. A compromise is the only sensible solution as Max and Bernie (and the manufacturers) surely know. It’s just politics to take a stand and for the opposition to take another stand and ultimately come together in the middle.

    The proposal of the two-tier system (and low budget cap) is nothing more than a provocation of the teams to come with a better solution, a mandatory budget cap somewhere around 100 mln pounds. An agreement might not be reached before May 29th, but definitely an agreement will be reached!

    Neither FIA or FOTA can allow a split to happen, because then both parties are worse off than what they have now.

  23. I bet a lot of the teams are cursing more of them did not gang up to have Max kicked out during the ‘spankgate’ scandal…

    1. I agree with you completely. They missed a real opportunity to get rid of a dangerous rival and now they’re paying for it.

    2. They couldn’t. The teams have no real power within the FIA compared to Moseley who apparently has a lot of friends.

    3. They should have formed a new racing league the previous time the teams had a big problem with FIA and FOM. Now the same problem still exists and they run into it again.

  24. I don’t think the manufacturers will be in the sport forever, exception being Ferrari. However, the point here is that whoever the teams are that make up the F1 grid, they must have a voice in the governance of the sport that they invest in. So far, since FOTA has been formed, the ideas come up with by the teams have all been pretty good. FIA doesn’t like sharing power, for that matter neither does FOM. As long as the money keeps rolling in all is good for them. FOTA needs to identify a candidate and run that person against Mosley in the FIA elections coming up. If they are unable to do that, (unseat him),there will most likely be fallout in the form of manufacturers leaving the sport by 2010.

  25. Bigbadderboom
    15th May 2009, 16:45

    While there is 1 vote per membership country Max will always hold the power at the FIA, he has the smaller countries over a barrel with threats and promises over all kinds of motorsport events which bring considerable injections of cash into their sometimes desperate local economies. The F1 teams hold very little power over the FIA presidency. The point they are fighting is over F1 governing from the FIA, all the teams want is a greater say in how the sport is ruled.

    They need terms of governance in writing, and future policy and rule changes made in an appropriate manner, not by some kind of self appointed king who can change the rules in a whim.

    My prediction is they will do away with 2 tier ruling and adopt a 140 million budget cap which will be reduced over the next 3 Seasons, I can’t see the manufacturers settling for much less.

  26. Those 4 teams wouldn’t be a great loss to F1. F1 has survived the loss of bigger teams. There’s also the fact that more teams are planning to join F1 next year, so they won’t be missed.

    Ferrari bluffed and Max called them out on it. Now they are taking Max to courts to save face. I will dance with joy the day Ferrari leaves F1!

    1. Bigbadderboom
      15th May 2009, 21:03

      @ Internet; Are you serious, i am no big Ferrari fan but the modern sport is all about the manufacturers, we cannot afford to loose any of them, privateer teams have their place and I applaud them, but F1 is the pinnacle of maotorsport and to generate true competetion in finding the best of the best, we need the manufacturers and believe it or not we need their money to keep the sport moving forward both in terms of development and competetion.

  27. Bigbadderboom has pointed out what I was going to, that is that the FIA is not dependant on the existence of F1 as it is the governing body for a majority of international motorsports.

    From my point of view I just wish we could be talking about how talented a driver “that guy” is or what about how hot the brakes are getting on “that car” and I wonder what their engineers are going to do about it, instead of this rubbish. But then to top it all off there’s this team that’s come out of no where, with two cars that were going no where and two drivers that were also going no where, winning every race because of some pretty dodgy rule changes and other bending of the rules.

    It might actually be a good thing if F1 collapses and is rebuilt from scratch!?

  28. The Friday meeting betwen the FIA and the teams has ended without any agreement.

  29. Bigbadderboom
    15th May 2009, 17:27

    Looks like its getting messy.

    Just read a report saying the FIA are refusig to back down at all and insist on 2 tier £40 million cap.

    Ferrari have lodged legal proceedings with a french court blocking the rule changes as they have that written veto over rule changes.

    I think this is going to be far more complicated than most people think, this is more than politicol positioning, I really can see it coming to a major head. Max will loose, i am sure of it.

    1. I agree. Many people (i.e. Anthony Davidson on radio 5 last night) saying this will blow over and the teams and FIA will come to a compromise.

      However, I think the failure to reach any agreement on friday and now the threats of legal action mean this whole situation has become a lot more serious for the future of F1.

  30. Martin Bell
    15th May 2009, 17:43

    I really hate the football analogies that crop up on F1 forums, but in this case I would say that it’s nil-nil at half time. F1 politics is, after all, about as interesting as football.

  31. There was a time when this was a sport – in which enthusiasts made cars and raced them. Ferrari have become a bloated insult to their own memory and to the passion of their founder. Toyota a corporate edifice of hopeless management (How much spent on not winning?) will just walk away like Honda likewise BMW and nothing will be left – just empty pit garages.

    Bring us back this sport, reclaim its soul and its passion. A budget cap of 40 million should do it – with almost no regulations, just human ingenuity. The budget cap is easy to enforce. You pay 40 million to enter, its top-sliced for engines and tyres etc then the money is redistributed via a claim back to the teams to spend as they will.

    It will be great to see how they balance, driver against designer, simulation, aero, etc

    1. steve, given where the teams are now, it’s not easy to leap down to 40m right away. most of these teams have started work on their 2010 cars 6 months ago! f1 is too complex a sport for a budget cap to work properly, especially if it’s for 2010.

      Ferrari have become a bloated insult to their own memory and to the passion of their founder.

      they won from 99-04, and 07-08. i’m not sure how that can be an insult.

  32. In real terms an F1 team in the 1970s ran on about 2 million (in todays terms) but then F1 was crap then wasn’t it…..I mean you had nothing to do except to watch cars racing, the girls and drivers with personality – there was no corporate hospitality to divert you……more Moet Mr Ecclestone?

    1. In real terms an F1 team in the 1970s ran on about 2 million (in todays terms)

      you’re referencing an era 40 years ago. that wasn’t even a realistic budget by the time james hunt won for mclaren in 1976. how can 40m be realistic now?

      give the teams time to adjust to the cap. don’t drop it like a bomb.

  33. really getting sick of max and his ****..

    budgets definitely have to be reigned in, we can’t be spending 400 million and above forever..a cap is ok but not 40 million at the highest level of motorsports..why can’t they just set it at a level that the manufacturers are agreeable to say 120 million..then whoever wants to spend that much or not, it’s up to them..if u have it and want to spend, go ahead..if you can’t don’ is a cap after all, that is what a cap is all caps at the top..your options are between 0 and the cap..up to you..

    allow technical freedom to everybody under the cap..if you spend 40 million and are smart, you’ll still beat somebody who spends 120 million but is not so smart..

    whatever the outcome, please just get rid of max..whatever it is he is bad for the sport..

    1. couldn’t agree more. pretty much what i ahve been saying in various threads.

  34. It’s official – they are going to french courts of law to try to stop FIA from ruining it all. It’s done!

    FIA didn’t even negociate, those *******!…

  35. Well according to it is apparent that Max Mosley is currently residing on planet pluto. He obviously really does not grasp the seriousness of the situation we have at the moment. Of course the teams do not want to leave Formula One, but they still want to have a fairer run sport.
    I don’t want F1 to be split, but at the same time the teams have to stand up for their rights. They cannot be seen to be bluffing. If they give in now then they will never win anything from the FIA ever again. Max already thinks he is god, don’t give him more ammunition to think so more.
    As for his opinion that other teams will come along to fill the void left by the likes of Ferrari, Renault, toyota etc… he is living in cloud cuckoo land if he thinks F1 will be the same. I for one would have serious doubts i’d carry on following such a watered down sport. I stopped watching indy car for that same reason.

  36. mosley must surely go. he already stated that last year when facing a vote of confidence after his sex scandal. maybe he’s forgetting it…

    fom needs another leader. the trigger is on.

    great ups for luca de montezemolo and all other manufactures.

    bringing the privater’s to f1 is quite good but certainly not in a way that puts gp racing side with a1gp. i for one not interested.

  37. Don`t get me wrong but I think this is not a Mosley issue. He’s just the pitbull of Bernie as he aways has been.

    I heard Bernie and the teams have not reached any agreement and IMHO this is the real issue.

    Turbulent waters, we will see how far this goes… Ferrari, Toyota, RBR, Renault are now in the position of doing what they have declared or make the biggest ridiculous in F1 history.

    I’m afraid they will not…

  38. F*ck the FIA & start a new series.
    I’ve had it with Berny & Mosley.

  39. I fail to see how major companies can do other than form a new entity. Formula One is dead, a silly title, how did one explain it to anyone outside the sport.

    Long live the World Motor Racing Championships

  40. Well I never… seems like the two-tier system has gone, according to Bernie and Max on the BBC.

    Now we await the £40m decision. I still think £60m will be the comprimise.

  41. I read Dieter Rencken`s column in Autosport & found it interesting, too, Keith. I`m not so sure his A1GP hunch is correct, though.
    As to today`s meeting, I thought Max naming names over who was trying to stage a walk-out was pretty low. (Before the avid anti-Ferrari element start it wasn`t them!)
    Mosley`s vision for the future of F1 looks more akin to a pub pool league but I doubt Bernie will charge accordingly, do you?

  42. Bigbadderboom
    15th May 2009, 20:20

    Well at least they have agreed that there will be only one set of regs.

  43. one set of rules for all teams was agreed so it says fota are already winners. max lost.

    but fota will now chase for more blood. best defense is maximum attack.

    1. Prisoner Monkeys
      16th May 2009, 4:26

      Actually, that would be just pushing their luck. If they get what they want and start demanding more, the FIA is more likely to dig their heels in which is just going to cause it all to collape in upon itself. The idea is to work out an arrangement where all parties are satisfied, not to have one side defeat the other in a gladatorial showdown. The FIA and FOTA are not in a war to be the lone superpower in the sport, even if Bernie and Max might want FOTA split down the middle. So long as one of them exists, the other will.

  44. Prisoner Monkeys
    16th May 2009, 1:59

    I think that both the FIA and FOTA are being their own worst enemies. For once, neither side seems to be in the wrong here: to me, the demands of both sides seem to be perfectly reasonable. The FIA wants to see Formula One expand while the teams want everyone to play by the same set of rules. The problem is that egos are getting in the way, and the end result is what amounts to a game of chicken. Neither side wants to back down, and they’re trying to call the other side’s bluff by making as much noise as possible.

  45. I do believe Max Mosley likes to start an argument, about anything, so he can win it. That is sport to him, not F1. He may be Bernies pit bull, but Bernie wants the manufacturers to stay. There is more money in that than the grid being made up of all independent teams. If L40M is the number they will have to reach it by steps. For sure most of the teams have spent that on next years car already. Also, if L40M is the number I’ll bet it will slow down the rate of development. Or lead to extreme innovation. I wonder how much it cost Colin Chapman to develop ground effects? :-)

  46. MacademiaNut
    16th May 2009, 4:31

    It is ridiculous what FIA is proposing. I don’t think it should matter how much money or time a team wishes to spend on their technology. FIA has been the best of motor technology and it should remain that way. Max should stop messing with the sport.

    I think it’s high time Max leaves the scene.

    1. Prisoner Monkeys
      16th May 2009, 6:45

      So you’d prefer that only two teams can win simply because then can afford to spend ten times as next as the third-place team?

      Way to make the sport uncompetitive.

    2. MacademiaNut
      16th May 2009, 15:21

      Well, there’s no way for FIA to monitor how much money one spends. You can put as much technical regulations as you want, but you cannot say how much money one spends in trying to get a better car that meets the technical regulations.

      This is like preparing for an exam. I can say that these are the chapters. The exam is for two hours. You cannot use calculators; one page of cheat sheet allowed. Some students have paid tutors, some students can’t afford, so they form study groups. Who cares? I cannot say that the students should not study outside of class for more than 4 hours for the exam.. that’s simply silly.

      All that Max or FIA should do is simply to put the technical regulations and let the teams meet those technical regulations. The technical regulations must be such that they could be met with 40 million pounds. Anything beyond that would be incremental benefit.

  47. If money were all it took to win in F1 then Toyota would have been picking up the Championships for years, Prisoner Monkeys.
    Success in F1 depends on many more factors than how much money a team has.

    I think the thing to ask ourselves is why, when across the years F1 has always lost teams through lack of finance, Max suddenly thinks the present situation is different? My personal guess is that he fears a depleted grid less than he fears a strong team alliance.

  48. The compromise is Ferrari’s court action. No doubt they will seek an injunction blocking the new regulations until the courts can sort out the issues.

    The result will be 2010 with the same fundamental rules package as 2009, other than aero, refueling, and other changes all teams agree on.

    This also saves face for Mosley because he can say he didn’t back down, and the time will allow for a more reasoned discussion, compromise and a settlement of the suit.

  49. AND: All of these Mosley driven changes are further justification for his continuance in his office, isn’t it? Whenever there is a chance of him giving up the presidency he seems to generate some kind of controversy that won’t allow his departure.

    He is truly despicable with no honor. See Spankgate for the no honor reference.

  50. theRoswellite
    16th May 2009, 15:01

    “..If you consider the single thread running through all team’s similar statements it is a wish to establish a correct and proper basis of governance for the sport.” John Howett

    If you consider how frustrating it is for so many F1 fans (read this site on any given day) to always be dealing with off track issues, can you imagine the near apoplexy which must grip most of the team principles when they first read yet another unilateral realignment of the most basic conditions under which they must operate their teams?

    It would be interesting to know how history is going to view the brilliant Mr. Mosley.

  51. Yet another nice post, I like it. I needed to say I just learn more matters on right here and I loved it. Cudos.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

All comments are moderated. See the Comment Policy and FAQ for more.
If the person you're replying to is a registered user you can notify them of your reply using '@username'.