Ferrari promise Valencia upgrade after poor race (Turkish GP team-by-team)

Posted on Author Keith Collantine

Poor qualifying left Alonso mired in the midfield
Poor qualifying left Alonso mired in the midfield

Ferrari have promised a significant upgrade package for the European Grand Prix after a dismal showing in their 800th Grand Prix.

What has happened to the team that started the year with a one-two?

Felipe Massa Fernando Alonso
Qualifying position 8 12
Qualifying time comparison (Q2) 1’27.200 (-0.412) 1’27.612
Race position 7 8
Average race lap 1’32.487 (-0.171) 1’32.658
Laps 58/58 58/58
Pit stops 1 1

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Felipe Massa

Beat Alonso in qualifying for the first time since Bahrain – a badly-needed result.

Couldn’t make any further progress on race day, gaining one position thanks to Sebastian Vettel’s retirement. He declared his frustration afterwards:

It was a very boring race for me, from start to finish, but it was also very difficult. I was always stuck behind Kubica and the two Mercedes, who were running at a similar pace to me. Very often I managed to get close, but I never had a real chance of overtaking Robert. I knew that, starting from eighth, it would be tough and so it proved.
Felipe Massa

Compare Felipe Massa’s form against his team mate in 2010

Fernando Alonso

Admitted he couldn’t have done better after being dumped out of qualifying in Q2. In a closely-fought session Alonso was slower than his team mate by four tenths of a second.

He started 12th and was sill there at the end of lap one, but his pit stop got him ahead of Kamui Kobayashi and Adrian Sutil.

Spent 36 laps battling Vitaly Petrov, finally getting alongside and banging wheels with the Renault driver to take eighth behind Massa.

At the end, I attacked Petrov and I hope the two points this brought me could turn out to be useful come the end of the year: I am sorry he got a puncture that stopped him finishing in the points, because he drove a good race. Despite everything, we are still in a good position to fight for the title. However, now is the time to react.
Fernando Alonso

Photographs of the damage to his wheel afterwards showed Alonso had been fortunate to make it to the end of the race.

Compare Fernando Alonso’s form against his team mate in 2010

57 comments on “Ferrari promise Valencia upgrade after poor race (Turkish GP team-by-team)”

  1. MacademiaNut
    31st May 2010, 16:40

    You couldn’t have asked for a more overlapping pair of lines. Looks like both the drivers extracted the max out of the car.

    1. I’d read that as two drivers that were consistently held back every few laps, in this case obviously by traffic. If anything the drivers extracted very little from the cars and instead saved both engine and gearbox to fight another day.

      1. Hmm massa did say he was running at a similar pace to kubica but just couldnt get passed, they might have backed off towards the end but i would have thought in the first thee quaters they where pushing for the best result they could get. Traffic wasnt really a problem for anyone since its such a wide track.

    2. “You couldn’t have asked for a more overlapping pair of lines.”

      Ha! You could!!!

  2. Ned Flanders
    31st May 2010, 16:59

    Ferrari are having a very anonymous season. Since the second race they’ve only had one podium at Spain- and that was only really because Hamilton and Vettel had problems.

    The silver lining for them is that they are right up their in both championships, mainly due to Red Bull’s regular mishaps. If the update they have for Valencia is as great as they seem to think perhaps they’ll have a shot at the title. Otherwise, I think they will struggle to add to their single victory and Dominicalli could be the fall guy

    1. Ned Flanders
      31st May 2010, 17:00

      Right up *there* in both championships. Me speak bad Eenglish, I have forgiveness, yes?

      1. No Ned, another slip from you mate and I am afraid I’ll have to ban you.

        Don’t worry about spelling errors, everyone does it :)

    2. Agree fully with you Ned. They have not been on form but are still well in both titles. Domenicali is much loved by the team but it does not help when Montezemolo has twice said in the last two weeks how much he misses Brawn. It has been said here that Brawn and Luca met after Monaco and discussed Brawn selling his shares to Mercedes. Here both main papers have spoken over the last two months about Brawn not totally happy with the Mercedes way of doing things. It has been said too much and by good people to dismiss it completely.

      1. Ned Flanders
        31st May 2010, 19:10

        That’s news to me. It would be interesting if it happened. I can’t see him leaving Mercedes anytime soon though, they aren’t even through their first season

      2. hmm, that’s very interesting – watch that space i guess.

      3. I can’t see Brawn leaving Schumacher just yet if Michael stays on next season (which given his recent resurgence in form is a distinct possibility).

        Perhaps in 2012 though, who knows?

        1. I suspect the only way that Brawn would move, is if Schumacher went with him. And I can’t see Ferrari doing that to be honest.

          1. no, i can’t see ferrari doing that tbh, although they thay made the noise about the third car for that reason.Alonso and Schumarcher… it would be an interresting paring though, wouldn’t it?

  3. Keith, the chart would be easier to read if each driver had a distinct colour. Red and Blue. Red and Green…. Or maybe my monitor is broken or I’m looking at the chart in low light.

    1. True, although you can uncheck the tick box of each driver, then you’ll know who you’re following. Probably would be best with two different colours.

  4. Hah!! Thank God Raikkonen isn’t there….or else they would blame him…..Keep it up Ferrari….Keep ur Baby stuck to ur chest

    1. Raikkonen is ungodly fast. Where is Alonso? All this chatter about how great a champion he is and I don’t see him as being any better than Massa (Though Massa is largely under-rated)… I miss the Iceman… perhaps Ferrari should drop Alonso instead, pick up Schumi and Mercedes should woo Raikkonen back to the foray. This would be the best situation possible.

      1. Praveen Titus
        1st June 2010, 10:55

        Let’s wait till the season ends to judge whether Alonso truly is the world championship material he once was.

  5. So the truth is sinking in. Montezemolo likes to talk about the glory of Ferrari, but in reality it was Brawn and Shumacher who made it for them.

    1. Praveen Titus
      31st May 2010, 18:15

      The thing is if Brawn is there, your driver will become a Schumacher. Look at 2009 and Jenson’s flawless early season wins.

      1. Oddly enough it’s not working now with the actual Schumacher …

        1. Praveen Titus
          31st May 2010, 19:25

          Yeah, that’s strange. It has in fact made matters worse – Monaco last lap, caused by Brawn’s and Schumacher’s right/wrong interpretation of the rules.

          1. Kubica was looking to pass as well… I think the rules are at fault on that occasion.

        2. Maybe that is because of Mercedes but more so because their “schumacher” now is Rosberg.

          1. Ha true, that could be.

            I think they still see Schumacher as their main contender though. Oterwise I would have seen them work more on the short wheelbase car with which Rosberg was obviously able to be more competitive.

          2. HA HA HA… in what dream? Rosberg is a great kid, but he’s no Schumacher and we are just now starting to see MSC come out of his retirement shell… He’s only going to get faster and faster with only the car limiting his chances for wins. If MSC were in a Red Bull he would have either passed Webber or been so far ahead of Vettel that he’d have been saving tires. Hate on the guy all you like but at 40+ he’s still the man. If the car continues to improve, then I think we’ll see a fast fast man at years end and if he stays, he’ll be a contender from the start of next year. You’ll see.

      2. You need more than a Brawn to make a Schumacher… you need a Rory Byrne to design the car and a Jean Todt to twist the arm of the FIA now and then. Byrne’s role in Schumacher’s success at Benetton and Ferrari was immense – more than Brawn’s I’d say.

        1. Nathan Bradley
          1st June 2010, 9:42

          Very good point, Daffid. I was just thinking about this myself the other day.

          Maybe I don’t look close enough, but Rory Byrne doesn’t seem to get nearly as much credit for the huge design feats he accomplished, especially in the early-mid 2000’s, as does say, Adrian Newey for his time at McLaren and again today at Red Bull.

          I think they both deserve huge amounts of credit, well done Rory and Adrian!

          And to all the other great designers I haven’t mentioned, sorry, they were just the two I thought of at the time! :)


  6. The problem is called F-duct. They are spending all their resources to make it work properly, yet they are still struggeling with it. Meanwhile, they dont bring many (if any?) other updates, while the others (especially McLaren, who already have a working F-duct) have been focusing on downforce, which are getting teams like Mercedes and Renault ahead. Now I fear it’s too late to get back this year.

    1. the Sri Lankan
      1st June 2010, 1:33

      reminds me of the teams that “tried” double diffusers last year

  7. Nice to see Alonso say sorry to Petov for the puncture at least. And he (Fernando) was lucky his wheel did not break up completely.

    1. Yeah, just gained a bit of respect for him there.

  8. Bartholomew
    31st May 2010, 20:35

    Lou lives on the moon and is not aware of the situation. The only solution for a Ferrari renaissance is :
    FLAVOR FLAV for team manager !
    Bernie with a phone call or two can grant amnisty for his legal trubles with Uncle Max.
    No one but Flava can solve the problem. Without Flava, Ferrari will start a slow descent towards irrelevance.

  9. So they weren’t already planning an upgrade for Valencia, or for every other race before this recent debacle? At this rate of relative development, VMM and RBR will be lapping the field in a few races.

    Whoever cited the focus on the F-duct may have it right. That is a complicated contraption and if you don’t get it right it appears to be worthless. The biggest benefit of the design to VMM may be that, notwithstanding its overall performance benefit, other teams are forced to try one on to defend themselves on long straights. So the other teams are now using their Friday sessions to fool around with F-ducts whle VMM put on new parts, and still blast past them on the straights.

  10. Valencia could be interesting for Ferrari, because Alonso will have the home support, but Massa was fantastic there in 2008.

    As for Montreal, Alonso has never really been brilliant there – particularly in 2005 and 2007 where he made several mistakes. Massa’s been OK, his best drive there was probably when he dragged a Sauber up to 4th before the brakes failed.

    They are still a good chance of a podium in Montreal though, based on the unpredictable nature of the races there.

  11. For me, the really interesting thing about this Ferrari season, is the fact that the scuderia was focussed on the F10 since June of the last season. You’d think that with their decision to abandon 2009 that they’d be much further ahead. Based on Turkey, I don’t see them being able to really fight for the championship, unless of course the two leading teams continue to throw away points.

    1. HounslowBusGarage
      31st May 2010, 21:19

      (Your comment was too short. . . Yes, I know, you stupid MySQL database!)

    2. BMW tried the same thing in 2008 and it didn’t work because it concentrated on the wrong parts of the design. I wonder if, in the F-duct, we have seen a repeat.

      1. But, BMW concentrated on the wrong part in pre-season. Ferrari (unless another spy-thingy) did not know about F-duct yet. They concentrated on massaging Red Bull/DDD and larger fuel-tank into F60 basic design, or so it seems. Maybe they should have gone the “clean-sheet” design route instead?

        … although that didn’t work out so well for Williams. But I think Ferrari should have more recent data of how to get a good car, and more money to do it well too.

  12. The only 2 races where Ferrari have really strugled in terms of pace has been Barcelona and Turkey. Is it a coincidence that these were the only 2 races where they used the F-Duct. Either Ferrari are really struggling or they have been gambling holding off small updates with the new big updates they have for Valencia. It’s hard to believe the car can all of a sudden be struggling for pace after it was one of the fastest cars in the first 4 races and Monaco.

  13. The race pace they have is good and with the problems they have had they have still come out well due to the others falling over themselves. I think the biggest problem so far has been the softer tyre and the way the car has performed on them. Alonso was not doing very much until he changed. He still never got past Petrov but his pace beforehand was good. I do feel that Ferrari looked to consolidate a bad weekend and protect engines and gearboxes. The points show that even after a few bad results there are still in the mix.

    1. Yes, softer tire, and maybe, as MB says above, combination of F-duct and a big-steps approach to updates, based on the mistaken evaluation of relative pace in pre-season and rates of development of their rivals.

      They are still in the mix, so maybe if those updates work, they will be proven to have been right in the end with their approach, who knows.

    2. I wonder how he’d have got on starting on hard tyres, with most of the top 10 stuck behind each other all race.

      We’ll never know, but are they afraid of trying unusual strategies? Seems a shame – Alonso’s more than capable of relentless pace or aggressive overtaking to make an unusual strategy work.

  14. Alonso’s season is reminiscent of Kimi’s in 2007 in some ways. He won the first race and has gone quiet afterwards.

    With the in-fighting to various extents at Red Bull and McLaren, it does have a few similarities.

  15. After Bahrain its unbelievable to see Ferrari have the pace of the midfield now :(

    1. We shouldn’t jump to conclusions by saying that Ferrari have the pace of a midfield car. They were a little off the pace in Barcelona, and way off the pace in Turkey.. McLaren was pretty off the pace in Monaco as well.

      But lets not forget that Alonso was looking the quickest in Monaco, and if it wasn’t was some driver errors China and Australia were tracks that Ferrari was really strong as well. I think we will see their true potential after the next two races.

  16. I’d have to say that I’m surprised (although not particularly upset), with Ferrari’s upper midfield pace. It appears to me, 7 races into the season, that they’re really gonna have to pull a big ‘ol rabbit out of their development hat to have a chance at either championship this season. I could be proven wrong, but I’m thinking that unless there is a dramatic upward turn in results over the next few races, they may well turn their full attention to next year’s machine. They’ve got NOTHING for Red Bull and McLaren at the moment, and I don’t see them catching up. This year.

  17. McLaren will dominate @ Canada, thanks to their f-duct and those long straights. Hopefully Ferrari’s update does the trick.

    1. Plus the pointy front end the McLaren has.

      I thought Ferrari had great top speed recently (with their ‘Jimmy’ device) but that seemed to have gone at Turkey… any ideas why?

  18. JSC is right, Ferrari abandoned last year’s development so incredibly early and only won a race thanks to kimi’s prowess at spa. Mclaren on the other hand kept resources on last year’s car and produced a genuine race winner.
    Skip to 2010 and the mclaren seems to have considerably more pace than their historical nemesis. Who would of thought that midway last year?
    Perhaps dominicalli should be sacked for the development direction he took and the money wasted in sacking raikkonen early. Just got a gut feeling that Kimi would of taken his upturn in form last year into this season. Kimi-Alonso pairing would have been awesome!!!

    1. but you have to remember last year, Massa was the tragic hero, so close yet so far in 2008, and the Alonso-Ferrari love affair was like not-so well hidden. Kimi had to make way because he was the one easier to move.

      But yeah, Ferrari’s sudden demotion to the “second tier” is suprising. Though I must say they’ve been very Jekyll and Hyde this season I won’t be surprised if they do well in Canada

  19. If this upgrade doesn’t work I really doubt Ferrari has a fighting change to be the champions. A few more poor races and all their attention will be set on the 2011 car.

  20. Massa has always shone at this track , so him being slightly ahead of Alonso may not do too much for his future at this point. Petrov looks to be a geniune star of the future.

  21. Beat Alonso in qualifying for the first time since Bahrain – a badly-needed result. ??????????

    What about Monaco? Not Massa’s fault Alonso felt the need to crash in free practice….

    It is now 3-4 in qualifying duels.

  22. Massa did what he needed to do this weekend. Yes, he’s very good in Turkey, but they also ran the tire compounds- soft and hard- that have given him problems this year. We could see him much more on Alonso’s pace as the year goes, which will provide for some interesting theater especially since Alonso is coming under such fire for mistakes.

  23. The were off pace in Barcelona and Turkey and on the pace in Monaco. Seems like they got the desing upside-down.
    They are too far away and not only have to catch RBR but also MCL…

  24. Massa is not near god driver as is Alonso that s a fact, but i don t uderstand ferrari, i seems that they are doing nothing to prove themselfs. I fell sorry for Kimmi, because a thought that he is a problem, but now I see that not the case.

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