Ferrari to face FIA on September 8th

Posted on | Author Keith Collantine

Ferrari will learn their fate in the German Grand Prix team orders controversy four days before the Italian Grand Prix.

The FIA World Motor Sport Council will meet on September 8th to look into the matter in which Ferrari ordered Felipe Massa to allow Fernando Alonso past to win the German Grand Prix.

An FIA statement said:

On 25 July 2010, on the occasion of the Grand Prix of Germany counting towards the 2010 Formula One World Championship, the Stewards of the meeting, after hearing the persons concerned, noted an infringement by the Scuderia Ferrari of:

– Article 39.1 of the 2010 Sporting Regulations (“Team orders which interfere with a race result are prohibited”)
– and Article 151 c) of the International Sporting Code (“Any of the following offences (??) shall be deemed to be a breach of these rules (…) any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally”).

In the light of the information in their possession, the Stewards decided to impose a fine of $100,000 on the Scuderia Ferrari and to forward the dossier to the FIA World Motor Sport Council.

On the basis of that decision and of the inquiry report, and following the receipt of a report sent by the Stewards to the FIA, the FIA President has decided, in conformity with the new rules of disciplinary procedure adopted at his initiative on 11 March 2010, to submit the case to the judging body of the World Motor Sport Council.

The disciplinary hearing of the World Council will be chaired by the FIA Deputy President for Sport and will take place in Paris on 8 September 2010.

The FIA’s Deputy President for Sport is Graham Stoker.

Ferrari team orders controversy

50 comments on “Ferrari to face FIA on September 8th”

  1. Right before Monza. This could be interesting. I wonder what the fan backlash will be at Monza if they’re dealt a bigger penalty.

  2. Previously it was scheduled for September 10th. Which would be during the Monza event. Guess they felt it was better to do it slightly ahead of that :)

  3. Bets on what kind of penalty they will give them?

    I think they’ll leave the result as it was but the points won’t be valid for the constructor champ, a bit like Mclaren at Hungary in 2007

    1. That would be fair I think. Interestingly then, that would put TWO of the new teams in the top ten for money at the end of the year, leaving only one team out.

      1. I don’t think they will be disqualified from the championships, but I do expect them to be disqualified from the Germany GP result as Hamilton was in Australia last year.

        1. I think any punisment will be a team punishment. No points for the race or the season, that’s my guess. Driver punishment would ne sad, because Alonso is in the hunt now, let’s keep it that way!

          1. Do you really feel though that if Alonso were to win the championship by anything less than seven points, that it would really be deserved? I sure don’t.

    2. i would love to see them give the race win to Massa, and just change the points back as if Massa had won.
      Ferrari didn’t hurt anyone else by doing what they did.

  4. Why does it take so long? It would be better for everone if they just got on with it!

  5. At first I read that as “The FIA’s deputy president for Sport is Bram Stoker.”

    1. LOL. He would suck the blood out of Ferrari for sure.

    2. Haha, yeah so did I. I did a bit of a double take.

  6. I think a lot of people are going to be very disappointed with the verdict. I can’t see more than an increased fine and a suspended ban at the very most. On another topic, are most of the people watching F1 waiting to be offended or shocked? Last week there was over 1000 posts in total about the move and after yesterday the biggest ammount of posts was about Schumacher’s move. Many years ago when I was still in the UK there was a woman called Mary Whitehouse who fronted a group of people all just waiting to be upset and angry. Are we still allowed to watch F1 without looking for scandal?

    1. As you say Rampante, the FIA will probably give a bigger fine and impose a suspended ban, although making the result not count for the constructors championship would seem a possibility as well (like Hungary 2007 for McLaren).

      I am curious about the ruling itself though, as it will be the first time the new procedures installed by Todt will be used.

      1. jsw11984 (@jarred-walmsley)
        2nd August 2010, 20:17

        I think the points not counting for constructors is the fairest penalty as it is unfair to penalise the drivers especially Massa and despite Alonsos moaning for something that was decided by management.

        1. At the very least they need to take Alonso’s points away. Otherwise Ferrari will have gained exactly what they set out to get with their team orders.

          If they cannot disqualify Alonso for Germany over this then there is no point in leaving the rule in the book.

          1. You cant punish Alonso for something which is between the team and Massa. It just makes no sense. I know Alonso was angry over the mic, but he is not the one who broke the rules.

          2. no matter how much you hate him, fernando is still faster than you.

          3. I’d consider accepting that if they also take away Hamilton’s points in Hockenheim 2008 (where his teammate blatantly let him pass), revoke his WDC title and return it to Massa.

          4. Since Massa’s teammate allowed him past in Brazil that same year, he’d have to lose those points as well, so no change.

          5. They have to DQ Alonso, otherwise they are not taking away what Ferrari gained by it.

            Which is sad, Because it’s not fair to Alonso, I don’t think so anyway, A driver shouldn’t be punished for wanting his team mate to let him past, But the team should have the back bone to do things right.

            I think, they will DQ Alonso, and strike out Ferraris constructors points for that round, and possibly fine them on top of that.

            A harsher penalty I feel would be fair, Because, lets be honest, this is not what we want in our racing.

        2. Doesn’t make any sense to cut constructor’s points because the purpose of the foul was to increase Alonso’s point total, not the team’s, and for the purpose of the WDC. Also think of what you are trying to prevent. You either cancel all the points or cancel Alonso’s.

          Personally I think if the FIA is actually serious, they must additionallyh penalize the driver who lets the other by (and the team equally or more), by money and points. That is the only way to stop “team orders.” You have to cancel out the leverage the team has over the driver to make him yield. You will also make him wonder whether a post-race telemetry review will show that “save fuel” or whatever was a canard because he will have to pay the penalty if the ruse is blown.

          There is no point in whinging about precedent now either, because the Ferrari brought this on themselves. Everyone knows that everyone does it and the FIA was happy to let sleeping dogs like, but Ferrari decided they had to make a big ridiculous spectacle about it and thus forced the FIA either to react or look totally weak.

          The good thing is that, with the hand so forced, the FIA will have to “clarify” the rules, or at least hang a bigger penalty over such actions such that they will become more rare for being more difficult to pull off surreptitiously.

          1. Lol, you say the same thing I do and I get the horde of fanboys falling all over me and you don’t. Fancy that.

            Guess they have trouble reading large bits of text.

    2. I agree with you rampante.

    3. on the other hand though, the FIA might choose to make an example of this like they did with Mclaren in 2007, so we could see a very heavy punishment

  7. This is being strung out so much. This should have been sorted days after the race; it doesn’t take a genius OR a court-style session to resolve this. Just strip the points and move on – that’s much more likely to stop teams from doing it more often in the future.

    As for the people saying they should just strip the constructor points from the German GP and not the drivers – that is the wrong thing to do, surely?

    Ferrari would have still maintained 43 points has Massa stayed in 1st and Alonso 2nd. If they keep the driver’s points, Ferrari will have still achieved what they set out to do – to ultimately give Alonso (and Ferrari) a better shot at the championship come the end of the season.

  8. What annoys me most is the time it always takes the FIA to arrange a hearing or make a decision. No matter what the outcome, it is unfair on all the public and on top teams that they will have completed another race before the outcome of this is known.

    This is supposed to be a top class professional sport, but unfortunately the governing body is run by well meaning but unpaid volunteers with procedures largely set in the 1920’s, no wonder they progress at a snails pace. The decision on the new team for next year is another example, by the time they have made the decision the FIA will have taken longer to assess the various bids than the winning bidder will have to finalise their finance, set up their facilities and design and build their car…. ridiculous!

    If F1 wants to present a professional face to the world then hearings and decisions like this need to be taken in a timely manor. OK to have convened before Hungary was probably not realistic, but there is no excuse in a multi billion dollar sport such as F1 not to have made any decision before Spa. All this does is make F1 look very amateurish and a “fixed” sport in the eyes of casual viewers.

    I personally believe that if any disciplinary hearing is required in F1 it should be undertaken within two weeks of the incident, and if the FIA cannot achieve that, then it needs to be reorganised.

    1. Jim N , I could not agree more. In this day and age, WMSC & FiA both are seriously behind the times. Major corporations have meetings with offices around the world by internet video conference. Why not FiA & WMSC ?

      1. MouseNightshirt
        3rd August 2010, 20:45

        I’m sure they have a diary that is already filled, hence the delays.

  9. They’ll fudge it!
    They won’t risk the Tifosi burning the grandstands at Monza and lynching everything and everyone who isn’t overtly scarlet.
    One race ban suspended until the end of the season. No points loss, no nothing. Slapped wrists; the FIA is still toothless.

    1. Unfortunately, you may just be right.

      Then again… show there is no favoritism toward Ferrari despite his former ties to them, Todt may urge the WMSC to lower the boom on Ferrari, thus cementing a second term for himself as FiA President.

      Politics, it is said, makes strange bedfellows. And sometimes ex-bedfellows.

  10. They didnt do anything new. If they punish Ferrari they need to look back at all the “save fuel” “defend” “let lewis past heki” orders and hand out the same punishment.

    Double standards do not belong in this sport.

  11. They’re not really going to ban Ferrari from a race if they haven’t banned other teams in the past. It should be a suspended race ban.

    I don’t see how they can take Alonso’s points away. They didn’t take his win away in 2008 as he was found not to have done anything wrong even if the race circumstances were manipulated to help him and technically here it was Ferrari and Felipe who actually did the act.

    I wonder if we’ll see a change though. Whether this regime is more bothered but the show or bothered by the sporting integrity. With the new regime and the fact we’re pretty much all saying a suspended race ban I bet something unexpected happens :P

    1. I’m expecting at worst being thrown out of the constructors championship, a suspended race ban and a massive fine, but i think they’ll prob just lose the CC points for that race along with a large fine.

      PS Steph, I’m liking the new avatar

  12. My guess? – A slap on the wrist, although I’d prefer something a bit stronger.

  13. @ Jack

    I think what upset so many people wasn’t the “Team Orders” as much as the way they did it.

    1. For me it wasn’t how they did it, but how early in the season they did it. In the final races when a driver’s eliminated from the championship it makes sense. At the midpoint of the season it doesn’t.

      1. That was it for me too – if they do it, I prefer it to be clear and in the open, no point in hiding it if it happens, I’d rather see the (ugly) truth. But then they should have to be able to say it either at the start of the season, or in advance of the race where one of the drivers doesn’t have a chance in the WDC anymore.

        … at the start of a season would instantly make a team less interesting for me, but it would at least be honest – no talk of treating equally when it doesn’t happen.

  14. It should be 8th August not 8th September?.
    Why will it take that much time to arrange a meeting?

    1. Well they need time to see how the championship is panning out before they make a decision. Bernie is insistent there is three drivers in it come the final race of the season ;-)

      1. yes, sadly that might be quite right.

  15. Can they really do anything other than a fine and possibly a suspended ban? If they do, then it would seem hugely unfair in light of the number of other times team orders have been used and gone unpunished.

    A fine and a suspended ban, plus a statement which clarifies what will happen in future if a team is caught using team orders would be the fairest solution.

  16. No, if we want consistancy from the FIA then the punishment should be something that affects all those involved in the move – the Team for organising it, Massa for going along with it and Alonso for benifitting from it. Anything else just won’t make a big enough message to stop other teams from doing it in the future……

    1. If there was consistancy, then the FIA would have taken no notice of these team orders. All of this is only happening because there was an outcry from the fans and media. The FIA did not react on their own feelings towards the incident.

  17. The right decision would be to switch back positions. But that can’t be done, and would set a dangerous precedent.

    So failing that, the best decision would be to disqualify Alonso from the race, thus creating an excellent incentive not to try this sort of thing again.

    That won’t happen. Ferrari have enough room to spin this into being found innocent (or rather, “insufficient evidence to convict”, as exists in Scottish courts I believe).

    What I think should therefore happen is that Ferrari should lose their WCC points for the race or season – preferably the latter as it won’t probably won’t affect the eventual winner but will be as harsh as possible.

  18. Switching back positions wouldn’t be a punishment, just undoing what was done.
    What should be done is that alonso is disqualified from the race, and therefore lose his points. He was the one who benefited.
    And now don’t start that ferrari benefited, because that’s male cow poo. They got exactly the same amount of points they would’ve gotten otherwise, and wdc don’t matter to a team. I never see ferrari bragging about kimi winning the title with them, or even schumacher winning 5 in a row. Yet they did name a car Scuderia Spider 16M, the 16 standing for there 16 constructor titles.

  19. wayne south africa
    4th August 2010, 8:49

    Alonso should be penalised!he was the driver who was forcing ferrarri to order massa out the way!and ferrarri should be penalised for following through with the order.the case of mclaren in2007 and the drivers they kept their points because they were not directly involved with the spygate scandal.although I do think alonso new about it.

  20. As Ferrari were on for a one two finish anyway I can’t see how they can be accused of manipulating the constructors championship, therefore I don’t see that deducting their team points is the right punishment.

    What they did was to interfere with the drivers championship. Their desperation to get a Ferrari to the drivers title should be punished by deducting or reversing the drivers points. If the drivers are seen to be punished they might not be so keen to follow team instructions next time.

    1. one thing that worries me is when the teams are closer to the end of the season, that is within 3 races.
      because they are allowed to use team orders if there other driver isn’t in contention.
      can you hear the uproar from those that dont know this.

  21. This is BS, Ferrari must be punished as well as Alonso. Massa should not be punished as he was forced to give up his position.

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