“Save Team Lotus” site set up

F1 Fanatic round-up

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The dispute between Lotus Racing and Group Lotus over the rights to use the Lotus has attracted some impassioned comment. More on that in the links below.

Apologies to everyone who was waiting for a full breakdown of yesterday’s test times from Abu Dhabi – I’m afraid I’ve not been able to get hold of them yet. I will make the data available when I can.

Links

Save Team Lotus

“The purpose of this site? Team Lotus’s future, perhaps its very survival, is under serious threat. Not due to financial woes or lack of public support or any ‘legitimate’ reason. No, it’s apparently down to the jealousy, greed and egos of certain individuals, no better reason than that.”

Ex-Honda Racing, Rubens Barrichello 2007 Honda RA107 (Bonhams)

An ex-Rubens Barrichello 2007 RA107 in 2008 Honda livery is up for sale at auction with no reserve.

Schumacher cautiously happy on tyres (Autosport)

“Whether [or not] you can say the front tyre is now stronger and that’s going to suit my style, what is very important is how next year’s car is going to suit these tyres. That’s very important. But for the first step, from what we have seen here, I feel positive about the tyres.”

FDA to support new European Formula Abarth series (Ferrari)

“The Ferrari Driver Academy will be a patron of the new series, contributing to its promotion and development. This follows on from the great success of the first Italian championship in which two young students of the Ferrari Driver Academy distinguished themselves, with Brandon Maisano winning the title and Raffaele Marciello getting the award for best Italian driver in 2010.”

Grand Prix of Rome causes controversy, comes up for vote in Italy (Autoweek)

“The Comune di Roma, the municipal council of the Italian capital, has committed to voting before the end of December on mayor Gianni Alemanno’s plan to stage a Formula One Grand Prix on the city’s streets starting in 2013.”

Sebastian Vettel Exclusive: I never stopped believing (F1)

“I watched the last 15 laps with my engineers and mechanics on Sunday evening. That was a quite strange feeling because at that stage of the race I had no idea that I would win the title. To see the tense faces of my crew and the jiggling feet of my team principal Christian Horner was quite something. In the end we’ve done everything right this season and have let nobody irritate us.

What the others did was not in our hands and that is how we went into that race. Now I am sure there are many who will say that I was just lucky. But looking at the whole season there were many negative moments where I was asking myself, why me? In the end we seized our chance and the others didn’t. It’s that simple!”

Comment of the day

Yesterday was the 50th anniversary of the only F1 race at Riverside in Calirfornia. American_F1_Fan tells us more about the destruction of the track:

Having been born and raised in Riverside, CA (and now living back there again), I’m am well aware of the history of the site even though the 1960 USGP took place before I was born.

The track at Riverside was still in existence until I was roughly 19 years old. Too bad they tore it out and built (of all things) a shopping mall on the site. It’s a shame, as it was a great circuit.

It’s a great bit of trivia though when you live here. Every time I tell someone that we had an F1 race here in Riverside, they never believe me until they go look it up for themselves.
American_F1_Fan

From the forum

Share your 2011 F1 livery designs here.

Happy birthday!

Have a very happy birthday polishboy808!

On this day in F1

Jacques Laffite turns 67 today.

In 1986 the French driver matched the record for most Grand Prix participations which had been set by Graham Hill – 176. But he injured his legs in a crash at the start of that year’s British Grand Prix, ending his F1 career.

Even so, 24 years later only 15 drivers have started more races, of which four raced his season: Jenson Button (189), Jarno Trulli (234), Michael Schumacher (267) and Rubens Barrichello (306).

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Lifelong motor sport fan Keith set up RaceFans in 2005 - when it was originally called F1 Fanatic. Having previously worked as a motoring...

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79 comments on ““Save Team Lotus” site set up”

  1. Personally, I don’t know how a Malaysian group could ever be allowed to get away with running under the ‘Team Lotus’ name when the original ‘Lotus’ team of F1 lore had absolutely nothing to do with Malaysia.

    1. It’s a bit like if my GeoffCorp bought the company that owned the rights to Dan Gurney’s old Eagle team and then entered a brand new F1 team under the guise of being a return of the old ‘Eagle’ team – it’s just not the same.

    2. I agree mate, I find it very difficult to think of this team as being in any way associated with the real Lotus F1 team from the past.

      It’d be like HRT painting their cars red and buying the right to call the team Alfa Romeo, legally and technically it may be legitimate but as far as I’m concerned it’s little more than a cynical marketing ploy.

      1. Can you tell me how today’s McLaren resembles in any way the team that Bruce M set up?

        They are neither owned by the same people nor do they work from the same factory as the original team.

    3. I’d say that given their 2010 season, Tony Fernandes’ crew have more claim to the name (from a racing perspective) than Dany Bahar does.

      1. Oh for sure. I agree with that.

        1. And just to clarify, I mean that I never agreed with the idea of Fernandes’ Group running under the ‘Lotus’ name as if it was a continuation of the old team. Since they’ve had the blessing of the Chapmans and, like Icthyes says, they are still a ‘British’ team, I agree they have more right to use the name than this new group do, whoever they are.

      2. Bene I’m not quite sure that is what Geoff is saying.

        But however, I remember as many here will just when Team Lotus dropped out of F1, so it really wasn’t that long ago. So for Fernandes to pony up the lolly with David Hunt’s blessings is good enough for me to call it the real “Team Lotus”

        @ PM I understand what you are saying and agree, but Danny Bahar has absolutely no claim to the “Team Lotus” name and never did and never will and that’s what this fuss is all about.

    4. Never mind the team is still based in the same county and simply registered in Malaysia.

      Lotus is a British brand, that will never change. It’s just Malaysian finance and we think that makes sense.
      Tony Fernandes

      (Source

    5. The fact that they’re based in Norfolk and have the backing of the Lotus name owner adds credence to their claims. Plus, there was something ‘Lotusey’ about the way they went racing this year. They seem like a proper little racing team

      1. Whats the fascination with Lotus? I don’t see them any different to HTR or Virgin.

        I also don’t see the point of that website. The people who made it must be really bored and incredibly blind to think their site will do anything but rot.

        Sure lotus is a car brand, but lets be honest here. Its not a very good car brand. Comparable to Suzuki? Really not worth caring about in my opinion.

        They should have been forced to change their name a long long time ago.

        1. If you don’t like Lotus cars, you have no right to even watch motorsport.. seriously. Have you ever been in an Esprit? It’s such an awesome feeling. And it looks freaking amazing!

          1. “If you don’t like Lotus cars, you have no right to even watch motorsport.”

            Your statement makes zero sense (for obvious reasons). Lotus is not the only sport car producer, just by the way.

        2. If you have to ask what the fascination with the name Lotus is in Formula 1, you’ve got to be a) Troll
          or b) just ignorant.

          1. Not everyone needs to be find the same things important you know.

        3. I’m sorry, not a very good car brand? In what company? Sure their cars don’t sell for quite as much as Ferrari, Aston Martin et al…but they are ever bit one of the best designers of sports cars the world has ever seen.

          The Lotus Exige is widely held as being almost perfectly balanced and laps tracks far faster than many cars with a LOT more power purely because it has such exceptional handling.

          Maybe I’m biased as I’ve grown up around Lotus cars as my Dad owned a Lotus Cortina since I was about 4, but they are, to me, the perfect example of a company that builds cars that do exactly what they “say on the tin”.

    6. I agree that the original Team Lotus and Lotus Racing are not the same, but once Lotus Racing have the right to use the Lotus name, Proton can’t take it away from them. Proton observed what the Lotus name could do in F1, and realised it was having great success, and decided to use it by themselves, without congratulating themselves with Fernandes.

      1. It can.

        The only thing I wonder about is how on earth an entity which became “Lotus” under the license from Proton can now claim, that the very Proton doesn’t haven nor ever had the right to it. It’s shooting one’s own foot. They’re basically claiming, that for the whole 2010 season they used name and image they didn’t have the right to use, and NOW they want to keep it, just with the so called “proper” backing.

        To my mind, none of the parties has the right to Lotus’ legacy and it’s all about the money, money and more money from both sides.

        All in all, when I have to choose between one cynical fernandes’ Lotus as backmarker and other cynical Proton’s Lotus mixed with Renault, I choose the latter. Simply because RF1 has some hope to bring the name back to its former glory at hands of Kubica and company.

        1. yes, the most funny part is all this beatiful financial plan by Genii and Lotus Cars is bet on Kubica presence. No doubt the latest gossip that his contract might be cancelled (he signed with Renault, not Genii apparently) must give them plenty of nervosity. So maybe this is why Petrov can’t be sure his post yet.

        2. Cyclops, This year the team has been called “Lotus Racing”, A name which belonged to Proton. Fernandes had leased this name from Proton, having got their permission.
          Fernandes has now made a deal with David Hunt, to use the the name “Team Lotus” Which since 1994 has belonged to Hunt.

          The issue here is that Group Lotus, the car company, and Team Lotus, the motorsport team, are separate entities, Although they where both founded by Colin Chapman, He kept them as separate companies.

          Evidence of this can be found on the later Lotus F1 cars, Where Group Lotus actually becomes a third party sponsor for the Lotus F1 team. Just as Santander would sponsor Ferrari or Mclaren etc…

        3. Sure, you can support any team you like, no argument about that.

          But Fernandez new well, that racing as “Lotus Racing” was on the edge, and he contacted David Hunt immediately.
          Buying the Team Lotus entry was not possible at that point in time, because there was still some kind of exclusivity clause, meaning Hund was negotiating only with Proton.
          Fernandez got into talks only when Proton did not come to an agreement to buying those rights, only to have Proton claiming they were theirs all the time (why then try to buy them?).

    7. I think HRT should name themselves Ligier for next year. Y’know, just for a laugh.

      1. I feel that people are harsh on Lotus Raing because they are nowhere near as succesful as Team Lotus of the 1960’s and 1970’s. Would people’s opinions on Lotus Racing be differant if the team were winning races and titles?

        It is well known that Ross Brawn was going to call his GP team ‘Tyrell’ after the multiple Championship winning team of the 1070’s. At the start of the year would people have argued that it was not the same as the historical team because former team owner Ken Tyrell had nothing to do with the new F1 team? Would these people have a change of opinion when Brawn’s ‘Tyrell’ won both titles and restored pride to the ‘Tyrell’ name?

        Lotus Racing have an advantage over the other new teams in the prestige of the name, if they lose that then they will lose potential investment. Potential investment that could lead to the rise of Lotus in F1 once more!

        1. Personally, I’m not fussed on what the team calls themselves. Fernandes’ outfit have the blessing of the Chapman family and the legal right to the Team Lotus name, at least, so to me they are perfectly entitled to call themselves that. Protests that “they’re not the real Lotus” are missing the point – the current Renault team are not the same team as the “original” Renault of the 1980s, but nobody objects to their use of the name. When you think about it, the French manufacturer doesn’t have much to do with the team other than naming rights nowadays. Sound familiar?

          I do find the whole mock-outrage about Lotus-Fernandes and Lotus-Proton quite amusing, which is why I weighed in with my Ligier comment. To me it’s all a storm in a teacup. If a team has the naming rights to a certain title, they should use it. Nostalgia’s not what it used to be, after all.

          (Incidentally, I am wondering what championships Tyrrell managed to win in the 1070s. Chariot racing, perhaps? :P )

          1. Jackie Stewart won the 1971 + 1973 Driver’s with Elf Team Tyrell, and the Constructor’s in 1971: 3 F1 Titles in the 70’s. :P

          2. Those would be the 1970s, of course, not the 1070s. I was picking up on what was presumably an amusing typo.

          3. I see it now :P

            1070’s… honestly :D

        2. Was Ross Brawn really going to call his team “Tyrrell”? There were rumours, mainly from over excitable fans, but was it ever a serious contender? If it was a contender what stopped Brawn from being Tyrrell?

      2. Or Zakspeed, Onyx, Fondmetal or Coloni..:)

  2. I saw that yesterday and here’s a interview of David Hunt by Peter Windsor to compliment it. Hunt is spot on regarding the “face saving” and that may be why Group lotus is pushing it so hard regardless of the absurdity of their claims.

    http://www.theracedriver.com/2010/11/david-hunt-exclusive-on-team-lotus/

    1. Excellent and insightfull read. Clears alot up.

      But silly me, didnt realise it was David Hunt, brother of James!!

  3. Happy Birthday polishboy808.

    Nice to see two complete different opinion from the two Mercedes driver I wonder whether the car is already made to Micheal’s liking.That can be bad news for Nico.

    1. Yes, Happy Birthday to our #1 Kubica fan!

    2. I join in here, Happy Birthday polishboy808, you share it with Jacques Laffite, thats pretty nice as well.

    3. Many wishes for your birthday, polishboy808!

      1. Many happy returns of the day polishboy!

    4. Oops , forgot the birthday boys… happy birthday Polishboy!

    5. Happy Bday Polishboy808! Just out of curiosity, is that a Roland 808 reference?

      1. Thanks guys! And in a way it is a reference to the Roland TR-808, as many singers today say 808 in their music, so thats where I got it from. I thought it sounded awesome 4 years ago and just stuck with the name :D

  4. Finally, a cause dedicated to clear up the crap that is emerging from this whole saga. Us Lotus fans have just been cast aside here, we need to make our voices known: Fernandes has earned his Team Lotus by showing passion and dedication towards the Lotus, let him have it!!!

    1. Oh yeah? Why? Fernandes was simply opportunistic to use this brand to help himself in his F1 venture, that’s it. He just licenced the brand – and he did that from Lotus Cars (not Hunt who was completely ignored and stayed silent) – and beside had no link whatsoever to Lotus tradition.
      Lotus Cars at least keeps producing Lotus cars.

      I learned that the whole story become complicated for Fernandes after complete reshuffle of Proton management and Lotus Cars management soon after he obtained his one year licence.
      Dany Bahar – and this is most important – has support of new Proton management and Malay govt for his plans about motorsport, and unfortunately for Fernandes he prefers to invest in more competitive team like Enstone.
      Still, the rebel of Fernandes since the licence was removed seems to me totally irresponsible.

      Anyway, in all that story the person which is the least linked to Lotus is Hunt, imho.
      Even less than Fernandes becasue he just bought bancrupt F1 team in 1994 and did no racing (unlike Fernandes). So his claims who is and who is not better suited to honor Lotus racing tradition are simply pathethic.
      I believe “Save Lotus Team” is Hunt’s action but I have no doubt it has nothing to do with saving anything except his interest. Screw him.

      1. David Hunt led the team as it competed in the last two races of 94.
        I don’t see how it is his interest to keep fighting. He has been sued many times since the Proton group bought Group Lotus. It would have been much easier to just let Proton have the name rather than defending himself in court for the last 12 or so years.

        1. it’s quite simple to me – Hunt wants negotiate money from new Lotus entity – Proton. That’s why he bought bancrupt team in 94 – not to make races but to make money. Those last 2 races in 94 look pathethic, even compared to Fernandes, and I bet it had something to do with FOM money from tv etc. – not for free.

      2. It got complicated even at the time Chapman died. But the racing team Team Lotus was in F1 as a seperate entity, it got buyed out of bancruptcy by David Hunt who enjoyed 2 races in ’94 with that very team.

        When Proton buyed Lotus Cars from GM, they failed to notice Team Lotus was no part of it, then got angry and started to go to court, but to no avail, their claims have been denied repeatedly by the courts.
        The last talks actually broke down when Proton failed to offer a reasonable deal only in spring 2010!
        Fernandez got into talks with D. Hunt only after Proton failed to make an agreement and did the deal.

  5. thats not really the team lotus, they should have used a team name which they had owned out n out… they will have to pay for their stupidity.

  6. Hoping with everything that Fernandes wins this. Bahar is an idiot, he should have tried to make a deal with Fernandes whereby group Lotus would support Team Lotus instead of trying to steal their glory, steal Renault, and steal the Chapman legacy.

    Anyone for making Lotus road cars heavier, and defending it should not get to take control of the racing team too.

    http://jalopnik.com/5693756/lotus-wants-to-build-fatter-cars?skyline=true&s=i

    1. Wow, that is horrible. Instead of taking Lotus and using its philosophy but bring the cars in a higher segment, Bahar just takes the name, and tries to make something of it it never was (super cars in a Ferrari league and a single seater winner).
      I fear this will spell the end of Lotus as such, not just the racing team, but the brand as well.
      I love the Lotus cars for being an early adopter of glued plastics to keep them light weight and relatively cheap, it gives the cars a signage and makes them stand out.

      1. that. “No it isn’t regulation change that forced it, we just thought about it and liked it”? ugh, not lotus.

    2. Wow! They’ve increased the weight of the new Elise by nearly 30% and made it look like a generic Asian car. Might as well be a Hyundai or a Toyota. Danny Bahar should resign. He’s an embarrassment to Chapman’s legacy.

      1. Worst thing is, they did it because they “had a lot of people’s input in the design” and not because they had to!
        Bahar even seems proud of making the car bulky, getting rid of the very thing Lotus cars are special for.

        1. Tony’s F1 team is more Lotus than that car is an Elise…

          Way more on second thoughts.

  7. How silly is this quote from Group Lotus…

    “As you would expect from the company that pioneered aerodynamics in sports car and F1 racing over the years our aero body kit will also be a world class solution, So all in all, will the 2012 Lotus IndyCar will be as innovative and revolutionary as the Lotus Type 38 that won in 1965 and changed Indy forever? Maybe – we’ll have to wait and see!”

    http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/11/lotus-returns-to-indy-in-a-big-way/

    1. the company that pioneered aerodynamics in sports car and F1 racing over the years

      Are they referring to Ferrari? :-)

      1. LOL, Bahar really seems to be done hard to get over his complexes after being pushed out at Ferrari.

  8. Kieren Reffell
    21st November 2010, 8:33

    I love visiting calirfornia, but i’m sure thats spelt wrong xD

  9. Bonhams estimates that Barichello Honda chassis at paltry “30-40,000gbp”! That’d be a sad day for F1 and Honda if it really goes for within 100k of that.

    1. Well it wasnt a very quick car.

    2. I suppose that is only start of bidding. It should sell for a bit more, just look at the simulator equipment coming with it (that could do about 10.000 on its own i suppose)

  10. I don’t think I have any idea who or what Lotus is anymore :P

    I think Pirelli have done a brilliant job to get their tyres up to such a good standard already and I can’t wait to see how the teams and drivers cope with them.

    1. Hi Steph, i fully agree with you on both accounts (look at that link posted about where Bahar is taking Lotus cars).

      Pirelli seems to work hard to give F1 tyres that do what the sport and fans want. And I would like to see both Schumi and Massa with a fighting chance to at least win something next year.

  11. I hope Monza remains in F1, no matter if Rome enters or not. Historical venues like Monza, Silverstone, Monaco, Spa etc. have to remain whatever new ciruits Bernie wants.

    1. Totally agree and im sure all F1 fans do aswell.

      1. after continuous disappointments by Tilke tracks, and J Todt’s declaration after Abu Dhabi I believe there is much better future for old school style F1 tracks like Monza.

  12. I really hope Rome doesn’t get on the calendar.

    No one country should have more than one race when it means that others will probably have to miss out.

    The same goes for Spain of course.

    1. I agree. There should be a French GP before any other country hosts two. After all they gave us the sport.

      1. Second that. But I don’t see government backing forthcoming given all the trouble Sarkozy faces. It’s a shame that there isn’t a French GP especially now that the Renault F1 team is turning itself around, and a Renault engined car won the championship.

  13. I can’t wait to win that Honda F1 auction! The RA107 car will lookgreat sitting in the Brawn GP Trailer I bought in auction last year! ;)

    1. I was thinking the same thing. I remember seeing another Honda or Super Aguri on eBay last year, and it went for pretty cheap as well. I guess the cost of actually attempting to operate any F1 equipment probably scares away most potential buyers. It’d be nice as a piece of furniture though. :-)

      1. Be good to have in your front room in front of the 50″ TV and play on F1 2010 on the Xbox360.

  14. You would have thought that the Lotus car maker would have been happy to get the publicity of an F1 team for free, the majority of people just assume they are the same entity and wouldn’t realise that Lotus F1 is not related to Lotus Cars.

    1. Wow, very nice comparisons there to show just how great a season it has been.

  15. No way that that Honda will go for anything less than £100,000. If I had £40,000 spare, I’d bid for it.

    1. Take note__no engine or working gear box__so your not going to be able to do lapping days at your local track.

      1. Yup

        Your comment was a bit too short. Please go back and try again.

  16. I hope Tony et al gives Proton/Group Lotus a damn good kicking on behalf of all us F1 fans.

  17. I think they will be called Lotus-Proton F1

  18. The word Malaysia and “Lotus” simply do not go together. The end.

Comments are closed.