In the round-up: Charlie Whiting says DRS worked “perfectly” in some races.
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Charlie Whiting, FIA Q&A (Racecar Engineering)
“Our view has always been that we shouldn’t make it [overtaking] easy; we should make it possible. In Melbourne clearly it wasn’t possible… we didn’t have quite enough length on the longest straight. It worked perfectly in Malaysia and China. Anyone thinking overtaking was too easy in Turkey should look at the speed delta between the cars at the beginning of the sector?óÔé¼?ª [the following] cars had a massive speed advantage.”
Turkish Grand Prix video edit (F1)
FOM’s usual video highlights.
Colin Kolles: “I look really unhappy because we would have introduced our blown diffuser here. It was planned to have a new exhaust system here, as the others have, and then this notification came out. On Monday I spoke to Geoff [Willis, technical director] pushing to get the parts on the car, and he said ‘No, we have to review this because there is this clarification from the FIA’. It’s a lot of money to us, and this is what angers me. I think it’s unacceptable. We have been disadvantaged.”
Spanish GP – Conference 3 (FIA)
Lewis Hamilton: “The old circuit is still there, the last two corners so I could maybe use the last two corners and then I will be able to match their pace maybe, if I don’t take the chicane. But otherwise, no.”
Todt faces more 2013 engine opposition (Grand Prix)
“Renault’s Jean-Francois Caubet said in Spain: ‘Renault is very clear on this point. We are fully supporting the FIA. It makes a lot of sense for a carmaker like Renault to be road relevant. I think it is a key point for the future of F1. We conducted a long study on what would be the future of the road car market and we think that in between five and six years probably 60 to 70% of the total car market will be hybrid or electric. In terms of price we don’t think there will be a huge difference between the current engine and the future engine, except probably the battery.'”
Ferrari: Rear wing ban no drama (Autosport)
Aldo Costa: “For us, the detail was legal. But you have many clarifications with the FIA, many interpretations. There was a change of opinion, so you ahead. It was a small detail and it was not a case of us pushing for it, we removed it. It was a small detail.”
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Comment of the day
John L is at this weekend’s race:
Just home from qualifying and our first day at the Catalunya Circuit. I would like to thank all on F1 Fanatic for their help and advice.
The Segales Bus this morning was efficient and easy to get to the circuit.
We are sitting in Grandstand H which is a fantastic location, and after qualifying went for a walk to see the circuit. It’s a great circuit.
JohnL
From the forum
Could graphene replace carbon fibre, asks Nik.
Happy birthday!
Happy birthday to Travis!
On this day in F1
Last weekend’s race set a new record for the most finishers in a world championship Grand Prix with 23.
But on this day 50 years ago every driver who started the Dutch Grand Prix finished the race.
There were only 15 entrants and Wolfgang von Trips led them home in his Ferrari. There is also no record of any pit stops having taken place during the 75 laps of the Zandvoort circuit.
Calum (@calum)
22nd May 2011, 0:05
For anyone who missed Heidfeld’s P3 fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejhs7MXzFWE
The blast of fire from the FEE really lets you see the airflow it creates.
Icthyes (@icthyes)
22nd May 2011, 0:09
Ironic after that video two weeks ago showing it spraying water!
Calum (@calum)
22nd May 2011, 0:20
R31 – the elemental F1 car!
Water:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT2P2fhRFQA
Air:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG2GKu905zs&
Fire:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejhs7MXzFWE
US_Peter
22nd May 2011, 2:48
Nicely Done!
BasCB (@bascb)
22nd May 2011, 10:37
Nice!
Prateek727 (@prateek727)
22nd May 2011, 7:50
http://i.imgur.com/rnv1U.gif
Couldn’t help myself :D
damonsmedley (@damonsmedley)
22nd May 2011, 8:46
I don’t get it…
Prateek727 (@prateek727)
22nd May 2011, 9:07
Meh. I just thought the Heidfeld Fire Escape Vortex could be the new ‘Sutil Running’
Evidently not :)
Fixy (@)
22nd May 2011, 9:09
Heidfeld exiting the car…?
Icthyes (@icthyes)
22nd May 2011, 0:08
Haha, what a great quote from Lewis.
I hope there is no protest, or it’s unsuccessful. It would just be a massive PR own-goal.
I instantly knew they would ban that Ferrari wing. I hope they weren’t really as naive as they appear to be (Ferrari do like to play the injured party even when they break the rules, sadly). What with the tyre nonsense going on in Q1 it will cement their decline from devious villains to making it up as they go along.
bananarama
22nd May 2011, 0:30
I don’t think the FIA will rethink their view on the spirit of the rules right now, rather ban it for next year if anything. The only way I would see them change their mind is if they think the RB domination will go away that way.
And I don’t see whats wrong with Ferrari. There are and have been so many things in F1 that were borderline illegal (as of late I’d think of double diffusers, f-duct, flexing bodyparts, alleged ride height adjustment aids etc.) so why not give it a try. Could have worked and then Alonso might be 3rd on the grid, this way it didn’t work and they will bring their next borderline illegal ideas to the next races.
US_Peter
22nd May 2011, 3:02
I agree about Ferrari, they tried to push the boundaries as any good team does. Sometimes you succeed, and sometimes you don’t.
As for the exhaust overrun, it clearly seems to me like an attempt by the fia to inhibit Red Bull’s dominance, which while it may make for a more exciting championship, doesn’t seem right to me. Clever engineering shouldn’t be punished, and if it is, it should be banned for next year, not mid season. When Williams was overly dominant in ’92-’93 their ride height systems weren’t banned mid season. It shouldn’t be any different now. The fia knew that most teams were working on this already last year. They should have banned it in the regulations for this year. As it is, the timing of this change of heart seems very odd, and I have to wonder if we’d be talking about this at all if Red Bull weren’t dominating the way they are.
As for a protest from HRT, I hope it doesn’t come to that.
Icthyes (@icthyes)
22nd May 2011, 10:53
I’d agree but the maximum height rule is pretty clear. It wasn’t a case of exploiting a grey area but actually trying to work around the rules. They didn’t have a chance.
Ral
22nd May 2011, 12:35
I like it though, because this is, as far as easily visible parts is concerned, the first time in.. years where Ferrari are trying to push the boundaries.
This is coming back to the quote from a week or so ago where someone from Ferrari said that they have been too conservative in recent years. They are trying now, knowing that they will get knocked back every now and again.
And actually, I liked their response as well. Very mature, no nonsense and back to work-like. As you say Icthyes, perhaps they realised the chances of this passing scrutineering was low. But Ferrari right now, the point is trying stuff on the design side until they find the holy grail that will allow them to compete with RBR.
Commendatore
22nd May 2011, 2:40
What they (FIA) should be banning is the innovative Renault exhaust system. Imho it poses a danger to the driver that’s too great to be ignored (as we’ve seen yesterday w/ Heidfeld). But, since it was Renault that has pioneered it and was the first team to gain a performance from it, the system will sadly stay because we know Todt’s role in this F1 business.
The sadder thing though is that I didn’t read anywhere on the net that the system was at least a tiny bit dangerous. Nobody even raised the question. :( I suspect if it was Ferrari in question (like in 2010 w/ the hand-activated F-duct), then there would’ve been an outcry in the non-italian media… (especially BBC i.e. the British one)
A shame, really…
Mike
22nd May 2011, 6:37
Was the fire related to the exhaust system?
I haven’t seen any indication that it was.
US_Peter (@us_peter)
22nd May 2011, 7:05
My understanding is that it started from the exhaust, but wasn’t caused by the type of exhaust, but rather it was started by a hole in the exhaust, a failure that could have just as easily happened with a rear exhaust. The one difference being that once the fire did start, it was burning much closer to the cockpit than it would with a standard exhaust.
BasCB (@bascb)
22nd May 2011, 10:50
I think Ferrari tried, and found the limit of what is allowed. Based on that, they can now make something in between that does fit the rules.
As for the Renault exhausts, that fire could have occurred with any car. No one got hurt, so it rather shows the cars and procedures work quite fine.
The ban on off throttle exhaust boost is OK for me, it made it easier to drive the car so less skill in cornering from the driver. I want to see the drivers do their driving on the limit, so that limit has to be markedly noticable in their different styles.
f199player (@f199player)
22nd May 2011, 0:15
The thing that bugs with DRS is that isn’t really needed this year with the degrading Pirelli tyres overtaking would be very much possible without it, had this change been in place with the Bridgestones in 2009/10 we would be saying that this was the greatest idea since sliced bread.
Cornflakes (@cornflakes)
22nd May 2011, 0:38
You would think that HRT would spend some money sorting out the cars fundamentals rather than focusing on an expensive EBD!
Calum (@calum)
22nd May 2011, 0:54
Well they did the front wing, now they balance it out by adding downforce to the rear with a new exhaust blown diffuser.
Mike
22nd May 2011, 6:46
I think you answered your own question. It shows how fundamental the blown diffuser actually is!
Cornflakes (@cornflakes)
22nd May 2011, 11:58
No i disagree. 6 seconds off the pace must mean there are quicker and cheaper (and even easier) ways to shave a second, especially in aero
AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
22nd May 2011, 15:30
Exactly! It is a fundamental part of the car.
BasCB (@bascb)
22nd May 2011, 10:53
After they updated the chassis, there is not that much wrong with it.
Having a blown diffusor with off throttle boost can bring them maybe a full second. That is pretty fundamental to me.
Good job for them actually working on improving the car.
I do hope they do not protest (would be fun though having a Williams win the race from Glock and Liuzzi).
I would not be supprised for Red Bull and McLaren not to have much consideration with them and put on a set of softs in Q1 to have them out of the race otherwise.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
22nd May 2011, 1:20
If Hispania were to protest and by some miracle win, then I think the cars would still be allowed to race as they are in Barcelona. And quite possibly in Monaco, too. The FIA will have learned from the farce that was Indy 2005, and ban the EBD from the next event (but since Monaco is only a week away, there may not be enough time for changes to be made, thus moving the ban back to Canada).
Although an interesting thought did occur to me: if the EDB ban went ahead, and all of the teams but Virgin and Hispania were disqualified, there’s a very real chance that no-one will actually finish the Grand Prix, much less win it.
US_Peter (@us_peter)
22nd May 2011, 7:15
I think you’re right. The decision would be up to the stewards in the case of a protest, and being that the decision would be made behind closed doors with little/no transparency, it’s hard to imagine that they would disqualify all teams but Virgin and HRT. The farce it would create would do far more damage to the sport than anything that could happen by letting the teams race. Imagine the angry Spanish fans in the stands demanding their money back. Riots could ensue. That said, I really do feel bad for Kolles et al. It must be very difficult to operate on their relatively small budget, and the uncertainty of whether something so integral to this year’s cars as the EBD could be rendered negligible has to be leaving them very frustated. Unless there is a protest tomorrow I think it’s doubtful anything will happen until the Technical Working Group meeting after Valencia. If it’s then decided that the ban will go ahead, there will still be too little time to demand that teams comply in time for Silverstone. I’d be very surprised if the change in regulations happens before Germany, and I hope that it just gets written into the 2012 rules, with a reprieve for the remainder of this season.
damonsmedley (@damonsmedley)
22nd May 2011, 9:02
I hope the EBD stays. It’s a brilliant innovation and it should be embraced. But all of these clever little devices get banned as soon as they’re seen to provide any sort of advantage, unfortunately.
Icthyes (@icthyes)
22nd May 2011, 10:54
THe EBD will stay, it just won’t be allowed to be fed off-throttle. I’m fully behind this as the original version required driver skill to get the most out of it.
BasCB (@bascb)
22nd May 2011, 10:56
The EBD is fine and is not going to be banned at all.
The banning is about blowing when off throttle, and I agree with putting an end to that personally.
Not for “green” but rather because it takes away the setback of a blown diffusor, i.e. making it tricky to handle around corners as Downforce falls just when you need it most. Some drivers manage that better than others, making it interesting.
Fixy (@)
22nd May 2011, 9:12
But that’s what would be nice: Virgin and HRT competing for the win! Although if Virgin competed it may be kicked out of the FOTA, so a Hispania 1-2!
bosyber (@bosyber)
22nd May 2011, 10:27
The point about FOTA could be meaningful in another way: perhaps HRT not being part of it, they weren’t in the loop about the other teams opposing the “clarification”, and thus were one of the few that had to re-evaluate instead of just stall …
bosyber (@bosyber)
22nd May 2011, 10:29
Sorry for the double post, but, would like to add: if that is the case, shows them why maybe they were wrong to think that HRT wouldn’t have any benefit sticking with the other teams, instead of taking the money from Ecclestone.
If that’s the case, I wouldn’t really feel sorry about that, they dug the hole themselves.
Solo (@solo)
22nd May 2011, 11:57
This shows the stupidity of the FIA. No consideration at all about the cost of development that a small team has to go threw.
They can’t play like that with the budget of small teams.
It’s understandable to ban some innovation that you think is illegal from first site but to let something go and make small teams invest in it and then remember you don’t like it, is unacceptable.
This people have a hard time trying to raise their competitiveness against bigger teams. You can’t play with the little money they have like that.
wasiF1 (@wasif1)
22nd May 2011, 2:11
One way or the other Charlie Whiting is right.After last year Abu Dhabi many people said that with no overtaking in F1 there may be a drop of TV audience.So to increase the show they applied new rules,the problem is there has been 120 some overtaking in Turkey but as there is only one TV screen many were missed.
BasCB (@bascb)
22nd May 2011, 11:00
Not to forget there is a FOM crew who missed a lot of action last year already and now is totally out of depth with showing us the on track action.
Oliver
22nd May 2011, 2:56
The FIA have created another mess from thin air. If they feel something is illegal then go ahead and ban it. Don’t go suggesting to other teams that they can challenge the legality.
Ban something one day ten 2 days later unban it. Then Whiting is tqlking about other teams questioning the legality.
I really must apologise to Mosely for thinking all those years that he was the only moron in that organization.
Scalextric (@scalextric)
22nd May 2011, 3:21
Last weekend’s race? The Chinese GP was a month ago Keith!
Mike
22nd May 2011, 6:59
I kinda hope HRT don’t protest, but to be honest I think they are more than entitled to. The FIA’s screwing around has hit them by far the hardest.
US_Peter (@us_peter)
22nd May 2011, 7:17
Agreed. They’re more than entitle to. The demons here are the FIA, and specifically Whiting.
Oliver
22nd May 2011, 9:30
My stamp of approval on that.
AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
22nd May 2011, 15:33
Exactly. However, it’s difficult to protest without punishing the other teams.
damonsmedley (@damonsmedley)
22nd May 2011, 8:59
More of this, please! :P
If only it were their usual highlights. Last year, the edits were great, even if the music wasn’t. But other than the HD, they’re absolutely terrible this year – especially the last two.
BasCB (@bascb)
22nd May 2011, 11:04
You really want F1 to go with engines that are 8 years old and take them furter. Even worse putting artificial fuel limits and possibly fuel flow limiters in there to limit them to increase milage? So they can “save cost for engine development” is that F1, the pinnacle of motorsport?
I want a new engine (even better, lots of new engines, but that will not happen) with fully integrating energy reuse to boost its efficiency and power output. I would love them to show us how much they get out of that small engine and powertrain.
Let these engineers have a go at showing what they can come up with and how fast it goes.
TFLB
22nd May 2011, 9:15
The more Whiting opens his mouth these days, the more he comes across as being completely out of touch with what the fans want. Also, the banning of f-ducts, off-throttle blown diffusers and other things seems strange. It’s almost like saying ‘you can have any colour you want as long as it’s black’ – ‘you can make any innovations you want as long as I like them’.
Dutch_Alex
22nd May 2011, 9:27
Funny how there so desperate for trying to stop Red Bull from being so dominant.
In football there are no stupid rules for the team that is favorite for the title to play without their shoes on. They don’t have to play with only 10 players because there dominating the season. They don’t get 10kg weights taped to their legs to slow them down.
Now im not by any means a football fan, but it is more of a sport than Formula 1 is nowadays.
bosyber (@bosyber)
22nd May 2011, 10:33
Especially since a large part of Football is also about buying the right players? Of course, there is a lot less equipment to be superior (shoes? more comfy shirts/shorts?), in contrast with any motorsport, so it’s a lot more about the players.
Anyway, this isn’t about stopping Red Bull, it is more about non-Cosworth teams clawing back deficit to the other teams, as Williams show. If you can’t join them: ban them. A good F1 tradition!
sam3110 (@sam3110)
22nd May 2011, 15:27
Cosworth clawing back from way back, not being able to and forcing a ban? Hmmm, where do I recognise that from ;)