Daniel Ricciardo, Toro Rosso, Monaco, 2013

Horner indicates 2014 choice is between two drivers

F1 Fanatic Round-upPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Daniel Ricciardo, Toro Rosso, Monaco, 2013In the round-up: Christian Horner indicates the contest for Mark Webber’s seat at Red Bull in 2014 is now between Kimi Raikkonen and Daniel Ricciardo.


Your daily digest of F1 news, views, features and more.

Horner keen to test Ricciardo (Sky)

“Horner has previously identified Jean-Eric Vergne, Ricciardo and Raikkonen as the three candidates to replace the Porsche-bound Webber. But asked point-blank whether the battle for succession was now a straight fight between Raikkonen and Ricciardo, Horner acknowledged: ‘Essentially, probably.'”

Formula One Group Press Release (CVC)

“Mr Ecclestone has six weeks to provide a response to this bill of indictment, prior to a decision being made by the Court on opening proceedings. The Board will continue to monitor developments in this situation accordingly.”

Formula One’s Ecclestone charged in German bribe case (Reuters)

“‘The main topic of the response will be the changing ‘confessions’ of Mr Gribkowsky,’ Duesseldorf-based law firm Thomas Deckers Wehnert Elsner said in an emailled statement.”

Formula One Boss Bernie Ecclestone Indicted for Bribery (The Wall Street Journal)

“The indictment could also affect potential plans for listing Formula One stock. CVC Capital, which now owns a roughly 35% stake in the company, has been looking into reviving plans to list Formula One in Singapore after pulling a $2.5 billion [??1.64bn] initial public offering last year. The overhang of the investigation was one factor behind the delay, according to people familiar with the deal.”

Bernie Ecclestone – the man, the myths and the motors (BBC)

” While the wheels of German justice have been turning in recent years, some in F1 believe they have detected a dimming of Ecclestone’s powers. There was the decision to shuffle this year’s grand prix calendar to accommodate a race that turned out not to exist, for example. Then there was his failure to prevent the introduction of a new engine formula, which is going ahead next year despite Ecclestone’s four-year campaign against the idea.”

Calado: Force India talk no distraction (Autosport)

“Over the years it’s got tougher, money being a big factor. I’m a believer that talent does show and that talent can get you through. All I can focus on is doing as good a job as I can, both in a GP2 car and on days like this.”

Intrigen in der Formel 1 (Bild, German)

Bild claims Mercedes’ Toto Wolff criticised company chairman Dieter Zetsche and team principal Ross Brawn in a conversation between Wolff and a former F1 team boss which was secretly recorded.


Comment of the day

What would losing Bernie Ecclestone mean to F1? GT_Racer has a few thoughts:

Anyone who thinks the sport will be better with Bernie gone is in for a major shock when that day comes.

Regardless of what people tend to think, Bernie actually does love this sport and has put a lot back into it to help build it to where it is. Whoever CVC decide to put in his place (And it will be a CVC decision) may not care about the sport as much.

Has Bernie made a fortune off F1? Yes. However he?s also spent a fortune and lost a fortune on F1.

From the F1 Digital+ service he had so much of his own cash invested in, To the TV side in general (in-car cameras, dedicated timing systems, consistent TV graphics at every race etc…) and way back in the days where he was putting his own money forward as price money for race winners when the individual race promoters were not always willing to put anything up.

Is everything Bernie?s done necessarily positive (or perceived as positive)? No. However he?s done far more good for F1 over the years than he has bad.

From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Wizardofoz and Icemangrins!

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Alberto Ascari dominated the British Grand Prix 60 years ago today, leading all 90 laps at Silverstone and winning by a full minute.

Juan Manuel Fangio was second for Maserati followed by Ascari’s team mate Giuseppe Farina.

This was the first time the podium had been filled by world champions, something which would not be repeated for another 12 years:

Image ?? Red Bull/Getty

86 comments on “Horner indicates 2014 choice is between two drivers”

  1. If Bernie were to go to jail, how would that effect his affairs with F1? if at all

    1. I find it a fair analogy. Same thing as to what happened in Iraq when US moved in. All the stake holders, including teams, will start fighting for bigger piece of the pie, with no opinion to respect.

    2. There would be issues with jurisdiction but it might bar him from being the director of a company, even if it’s his own private holding. But it depends on exactly what company is registered where, if there are any laws where he is resident against foreign bribery, what actual control he has, etc. I don’t know how German courts work but BE could string this out for years. Or not if the Germans are “German” about the administration of the law (hope so).

    3. Most races receive government funding which has many conditions attached. Around the Canadian GP weekend, a french language radio station reported that the F1 promoters for Montreal and FOM/Bernie Ecclestone had received a special exemption from a recently adopted anti-corruption law prohibiting any government funds going to anyone or organization even being investigated for fraud or corruption. Sorry I can’t find it now.

    4. CVC would probably have to make him step down. If not, then it would be complicated because several of the companies (for Mercedes it was mentioned extensively earlier this year) involved in the sport, as well as the FIA have obligations to ensure they do not deal with persons and/or companies tied with corruption, so they would have to act and sever ties with CVC if they would want to keep bernie on.

      However its likely that the legal procedures will go on for another 9 months or so. The bigger problem for CVC is, that they really do not have a suitable replacement available.

    5. Some say he’s closer to a dictator than to a democrat. Dictator run jurisdictions tend to face tough times right after change of power, that’s normal once the whole organization needs to adapt but if Mr. Bernie has managed (and I believe he did) to create a solid organization not centered in one person it will do just fine.

  2. Oh dear I wonder what team Wolff will hop over to now (assuming that story is true).

    1. Can you traslate please, google translate sucks!!!!!

      1. “It’s about a conversation log between Mercedes motorsport director Toto Wolff (41) and an ex-F1 team boss.

        The phone call is said to have been secretly recorded by the former team boss, written and used for the blackmail* of the Mercedes boss.”

        (Erpressung = blackmail?)

        1. ‘die Erpressung’ is indeed blackmail.

      2. @celeste – here is an article on the topic originally written in English:

        Ex-Formula One team boss Kolles tried to blackmail Wolff
        The person who attempted to blackmail Toto Wolff has been revealed as the former HRT boss in Formula One.

        Former HRT boss Colin Kolles tried to blackmail Mercedes chief Toto Wolff earlier this year, it has emerged. We reported earlier that a conversation between Austrian Wolff and a then-unnamed former F1 team boss was “secretly recorded” and then threatened to be used against him.


      3. @celeate, unforrunately the article does not actually detail paarticulars, rhough it sounds as if wolff has been ranting/bragging to someone and it isn’t a pretty story. I think it is mostly a teaser that more details could be divulged by Bild in the coming weeks.

        I wonder who that blackmailing ex-teamleader could be? Colles? Not Eddie Jordan I hope, that would make a fine secondary BBC scandal! Stoddard? Or perhaps Adam Parr, as he at least is connected to Williams? Hard to believe it is Norbert Haug.

        1. @celeste, I meant; touch keyboard/not fully awake syndrome, sorry.

          On ex-team owner; surely Wolff wouldn’t have been talking to Briatore?

          Stewart/Prost? Eh, okay I’ll stop now.

      4. @bosyber, @celeste @calum – I read a small piece in another german publication where its mentioned that this is about a conversation between Wolff and our beloved F1 dentis Colin Kolles during pre-season testing in februari in Barcelona. That article refers to Bild’s original story, but it seems the full story from Bild is not online.

        1. @bosyber @bascb @joepa @calum @pielighter thanks guys :), for comig to help this damsel in distress ;) …

          I really hope that we can have some more details about what the content of the conversation was, but it seem that Mercedes really don´t want to see nothing about it on the papers.

          Three points jump to my attention first the fact that it seem to be Colin Kolles, from HRT, the one doing the blackmail, don´t know why I was under the impression he was a “good guy”, maybe because I still feel simpaty for HRT.

          Second it seem that the the new “structure” on Mercedes with that many bosses is starting to create conflict inside the team. Wonder what Mercedes is gonna do about it?, guess you can´t fire Toto since he is and an accionist of team?…

          And third: this really isn´t the year for PR in Mercedes “test gate” and now this. Their PR agency is earning that fee…

          1. thanks guys :), for comig to help this damsel in distress ;) …

            @celeste – sure thing, happy to help! who said chivalry was dead anyhow?! lol…

            I don’t think we’re going to get proper details on this one, as it seems to have been “resolved” behind closed doors b/w the interested parties – and a court! Again from that English-language report on the story:

            …Kolles then threatened to release the details of their explosive conversation unless he paid a sum of money. Reportedly, Wolff and Kolles have settled their dispute with the intervention of F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone, while Mercedes has obtained a court order preventing the publication of the details of the conversation.

            Of course, that’s why we have WikiLeaks – to ensure the release of important secret information like the transcript of a blackmailable phone call. Juicy!!

            I think things at Mercedes will start to settle down unfortunately once Brawn leaves, as the plan has always seemed to be that he would retire of his own volition and not be forced out. Until then, there are many chiefs and probably even more indians! (colloquial expression)

  3. Game on for that Red Bull seat…

    1. No game at all – simply the question of whether Räikkonen accepts the Red Bull proposal or not. I am starting to think he will not and I can’t blame him for wishing to maintain no. 1 status.

      1. @poul yes. Kimi is not going to “casting”. RIC is their second best.

      2. I think it has been well pointed out in a few recent posts that it will come down to what Red Bull wants. If they legitimately want another rooster on the team, then I think KR will be there. What driver wouldn’t want to be in the best car now 4 years running. No. 1 status is of no importance if the car is not WDC capable. So if it simply comes down to the car for Kimi, I think he will go to Red Bull. Unless RBR is leaning towards a second fiddle guy for SV, and/or KR is highly convinced that the Lotus will be a true contender for the title next year, I think we will see KR at RBR. And I hope so for the sake of seeing the best drivers on the best teams. I think the audience gets robbed when teams (especially top ones) take the easy way out and settle for a lesser driver to support their main one.

  4. It was reported that after that interview, Horner started to listen to Oasis album “Definitely Maybe”

    1. Well at least he has a nice taste on music ;)…

  5. Bother, having gone straight to B.E. article and questioned the validity of some of the statements contained therein I find it is COTD. Outside of his time as a team owner I don’t believe Bernie ever spent any money on F1 that was not sourced from revenue and therefore paid for by the teams not Bernie. Anybody who knows better please let me know the facts but please no rumors or speculation.

    1. Question GT_racers comment, not the article itself, sorry Keith.

    2. So it’s ok for you to provide only beliefs and speculation but you need cold hard evidence from the opposing side? I never really followed the behind the scenes side of F1 in the past so I can’t comment on Bernie but that seems to be a bit unfair comment.
      At the very least surely you believe that without Bernie the sport would be in a much poorer state (very low exposure, less competitive etc)

      1. @hxcas, I have in the past directed readers to the sources I used to refresh my memory of Bernies accession to F1 supremo, they are easy to find on the web. CVC have a website and publish their annual report which details their F1 activities, profits and expenses including what the paid Bernie for the rights and what they pay him as salary $5million pa.

        2. Bernie does a good job for Bernie and F1 generates a lot more money than it did before Bernie took over, due mainly to the advent of Worldwide live TV coverage, but the teams would likely have done better financially as they were because they did not pay someone half of all the money generated. Before Bernie F1 was still the pinnacle of motorsport, raced all over the world (USA included) and was successful for both the teams and the track owners, and I could afford to go and watch on my lowly wage.

    3. Bernie owns the commercial rights to the sport. It’s a business. And like any business, he had to pay the costs with money that comes from the sport. If he paid every cost out of his own pocket, he’d go broke very, very quickly.

      Secondly, money that comes from the sport is not money that belongs to the teams. If it was, Bernie would have gotten in trouble much sooner.

      1. @prisoner-monkeys, Bernie has profit sharing deals with the teams, the teams provide the product, Bernie markets it. Of course the expenses come out of income generated, this is why I correct comments that claim Bernie risked his own money to develop F1.

        1. Bernie’s money originated from selling cars. So it is entirely conceivable that he invested extra money outside the income from the sport.

          1. read Benson’s article in the roundup. Bernies money did not come from selling used cars. It came from property (his own version) or as rumoured from a bit more shady sources @verstappen.

            But that does not mean that in any sensible business world the ones actually generating the profits by racing etc. would get less than about 2/3rds and most operations go towards 80-95% in sports. Not being increased from 50 towards about 65% for the teams like it is in F1.

            Anything like that is normally considered over the top and there have been lots of franchises that crashed from asking to big a share from their franchisees in the past.

          2. It might be conceivable but it has never been documented, nor does it fit in with the facts. Bernie was a team owner and then he was the marketing agent for F1, apart from buying and selling a team his own money never entered the equation.

    4. I think its a bit much asking for “proof” there @hohum. We don’t know who GT_racer is, but from his (her?) previous comments its clear that he was involved in the TV operation for FOM in the past, so he is likely to know a fair bit about that side of things.

      What the real issue is, and probably the reason why CVC is having a tough job deciding when to replace Bernie, is that there really is no one to take over from him. Surely if they did have a solid replacement, they would have already announced someone else working together with Bernie, if only to protect themselves from accusations of mismanagement of the funds available by their shareholders.

      Because that is a very valid point made in GT_Racers post – there is just not anyone (readily) available with the love of the sport, the right contacts, the business acumen and the will to do it and not tainted by previous actions (that last one I mention to avoid people bringing up Briatore).

      1. My information came from major newspaper articles, Forbes rich list, and CVCs website, I am asking for sources because as you know, there are some F1 fanatics actively promoting the view that Bernie built F1 virtually from scratch by investing and risking hundreds of millions of dollars of his own (or borrowed) money when nothing could be farther from the truth.

        Bernie certainly will be hard to replace but I think there are many people involved in sports promotion and business who could get up to speed as FOM CEO pretty quickly. Maybe Toto W. could take it on.

        1. there are some F1 fanatics actively promoting the view that Bernie built F1 virtually from scratch by investing and risking hundreds of millions of dollars of his own (or borrowed) money when nothing could be farther from the truth

          And there are some F1 Fanatics out there actively promoting the view that Bernie wants nothing more than to totally destroy Formula 1 and line his pockets with the profits from doing so. However, nothing could be farther from the truth, because despite having ample opportunity to do exactly that, Bernie has not destroyed Formula 1 and lined his pockets with the profits to do so. Which is strange, because if he was as intent on doing this as these F1 Fanatics would have us believe, he would have already done so by now. Nor will we ever know why this contradiction exist, because those F1 Fanatics refuse to even acknowledge the paradox, much less address it in their arguments.

          With every passing day that Bernie doesn’t destroy Formula 1, the idea that Bernie wants nothing more than to destroy it and line his pockets with the profits from doing so gets weaker and weaker and weaker.

          Formula 1 won’t survive despite Bernie. Formula 1 will survive because of Bernie.

          1. @prisoner-monkeys, pray tell, how could bernie have extracted more money from F1 than he has already done ?
            I for one don’t believe, nor have I ever said Bernie wants to destroy F1, as I have previously commented in response to similar misquotes from you, ” a successful parasite does not kill it’s host, at least not before it has completed it’s life cycle”.

      2. @bascb, further to above, I believe Bernie still controls a large shareholding in F1, which will make it harder for CVC to dump him if he doesn’t want to go.

        1. Well he will certainly have made sure hat Bambino holdings does not vote against his will @hohum!

          But I think its a bit like a deadlock. Because Bernie would not want to go out (he has no other hobbies, and he won’t be the same guy if not in full control, not to mention it would look like admitting guilt for him), and at the same time no one at CVC or FOM ever really prepared for what to do after he goes.

          1. I think CVC did prepare: they offloaded lots of stock. They hoped for the IPO to get rid of the rest, in my opinion.

          2. yes, its likely that was their way of preparing for turbulent times ahead – offload a majority/big portion of their FOM holdings .

  6. Bensons article on BBC is worth a read before shedding a tear for Bernie.

    1. JimmyTheIllustratedBlindSolidSilverBeachStackapopolis III
      18th July 2013, 2:34

      Yeah ecclestone the great train robber, benson at his factual best. lol.

      1. He is reporting the rumor not calling it fact, and though I wouldn’t be surprised if Bernie, like Ronnie Biggs, becomes a resident of Brazil, the main thrust of the story is how Bernie and Max took the rights to F1. Wish I knew who tipped of the Sun about Maxs’ spanking good soirees, my guess is Don Rennis.

        1. Wish I knew who tipped of the Sun about Maxs’ spanking good soirees, my guess is Don Rennis.

          @hohum – it says a lot about you the way you joke about such a criminal and offensive invasion of a citizen’s privacy and the abuse of media power to humiliate and harm them.

          1. Payback is such a female dog, right.

  7. Ben (@scuderia29)
    18th July 2013, 2:50

    give ricciardo a chance!!
    if raikkonen moves to red bull i believe that would render Lotus no longer a championship contender, and the more championship contending teams the better in my opinion. Imagine this for 2014…

    Red Bull
    Vettel & Ricciardo


    Button & Perez


    Raikkonen & Hulkenberg


    Alonso & Kobayashi


    Hamilton & Rosberg

    haha honestly i’d love to see this, though i’m 100% sure it wont happen XD

    1. Surely if Ferrari (and I think they rather are tending not to change anything in the line-up) were to change drivers, they would be taking Hulkenberg @scuderia29, Kobayashi is not going to get back into F1.

      1. Ben (@scuderia29)
        18th July 2013, 13:15

        @bascb you really think so? there arent really any ties between hulkenberg and ferrari is there? nor has there been any indication, right now i would have thought Kobayashi has a better shot than hulkenberg but im not saying he will, those line-ups were just fantasy aha.

        1. @scuderia29 – As mentioned in my post above, I fully expect Ferrari to stay with their lineup (because they said its likely they would).

          But IF they change, why would Kobayashi have any real chances? Not to mention why would he have better chances than a driver who is currently driving?
          The fact that Kobayashi was offered a drive in their sportscar team, is a reflection on him proving to be popular enough and good enough a driver to be added to the what 9 man team? that runs the GT cars, not about Ferrari even considering him for F1.
          As for ties with a team – what ties did McLaren have with Perez before they signed him? Instead Perez had long been linked to Ferrari.

          But as for Hulk’s ties with Ferrari – they have been there for a long time. First he raced in the A1 GP Series when they ran cars based on F1 cars with a Ferrari engine. And he was considered to be drafted in to replace Massa in 2009, but decided against it because a. he wanted to finish his championship winning GP2 year and b. because he felt it would not be the right career move at that time. So he / his management certainly does know the way to Ferrari.
          More over, it was widely speculated last year, that he did in fact have some kind of pre-contract with Ferrari to replace Massa, only in the end the Scuderia kept with their driver, and that was mentioned to have been the background of Hulk moving to (Ferrari engined) Sauber this year.

          So, the ties are there, and even if they are not there, Ferrari would more likely choose a promising current F1 driver over one that showed talent but was not quite there.

  8. So what’s going to happen to Vergne now? Obviously staying in STR for another year is out of the question, but the problem is that he’s reputation is now damaged and who knows what this will do to his confidence.

    I’m glad that Ricciardo has a real possibility of being at Red Bull but there’s something seriously wrong with their driver program. Having a junior team is not the answer RB should help young drivers get to regular teams, just look at Ferrari, Bianchi was going to drive for Force India but then had the possibility to change once that was not possible. It just gives him the chance to be seen by everyone and if Ferrari doesn’t want him at least he’s career is not destroyed.

    1. @mantresx

      It just gives him the chance to be seen by everyone and if Ferrari doesn’t want him at least he’s career is not destroyed.

      Just because a driver is not good enough to race for Red Bull, that doesn’t mean that he is not good enough to race in Formula 1. So if Red Bull choose not to take that driver and he is let go from Toro Rosso, he could wind up at another team – one where he would have a genuine chance at beating Toro Rosso and the driver(s) who replaced him. That’s the last thing Red Bull would want, because it would make their decision look foolish. So on a certain level, it is in their interests to keep a driver they don’t want out of Formula 1.

  9. ‘Essentially, probably.’

    Christian Horner has finally mastered Ronspeak.

    1. Yeah, no, obviously.

    2. That combined with Vettel’s Schumispeak will no doubt obviously please the boys, for sure.

  10. I hope Dan Ricciardo wins the seat as he comes from where I come from. Kimi doesn’t like to be classed as a 2nd driver anyway and Dan has pulled great results in the last races since Mark announced his retirement

    1. If RBR want a ‘2nd’ driver then KR won’t be interested. But if they assure him of equal status to SV, then I think KR needs to get in what has been the best car for 4 years running, while he has the opportunity. KR has been able to observe this year that a) RBR are capable of giving a team order that favours their ‘2nd’ driver b) SV is capable of ignoring a team order without adverse consequence (other than a few red faces) and admits he would and will do it again, so c) RBR has forgone giving team orders since they know both drivers will ignore them anyway. So I don’t think KR needs to worry about being a No.2 on the team unless he’s worried that he would not be guaranteed the same car and upgrades as SV. And I can’t see RBR hiring KR and then giving him lesser equipment or emphasis on the team.

      I hope it’s KR and SV at RBR next year.

      1. I think Kimi should be worried a) he doesn’t like getting paid late b) Doesn’t like being told what to do c) Doesn’t like getting classed as a 2nd driver.

  11. As much as we would like to see how Kimi and Seb would go in the same team over the course of a season, a few things don’t sit well with the idea.
    From Kimi’s point of view, the last thing he wants to worry about is PR, and Red Bull is a marketing machine, would they really let Kimi do what he is doing with Lotus?
    Also from Red Bull’s management perspective, having two drivers competing at the front for wins in some cases can really backfire. Look at the tension between Vettel and Webber when Webber is performing! Vettel always has a sour look on his face if he is on the podium and Webber is ahead of him. Not sure how the friendship would go if Kimi starting beating him consistently.
    Also the money they save by not trying to pay for Kimi could go towards car development.

  12. The Bild article about Wolff is a typical example of sensationalist tabloid rubbish… Much ado about nothing. There is not a single shred of credible detail in there and is loosely based on the current “feud” between RB and Mercedes… That is what I read in it…

  13. To the TV side in general (in-car cameras, dedicated timing systems, consistent TV graphics at every race etc…)

    Yeah, but… they’re here now, they’re not going to go away. So where’s the issue?

    1. I never said they was a risk of those things been taken away.

      I was simply using them as a few examples where Bernie has in the past put money back into F1 to improve the product.

      This was back in the late 70s/Early 80s when there was no real organization on the TV side, Not every race was shown on TV, Not every race had electronic timing or on-screen graphics & nobody was putting anything into developing in-car cameras.

      When the F1 Digital service launched, Yes there were other investors but Bernie did also put a lot of his own money into it & when it was shut down at the end of 2002 he also lost a small fortune as he footed part of the bill when the German investors (Who’s name I forget) went bust.
      The amount that was invested into that service was crazy looking back, $35m to get it started & $100m by the time it closed.

  14. Raikkonen to Red Bull,done deal already i suspect.

    1. @melchior – If Raikkonen has already joined Red Bull, why did they put Ricciardo in the car for the Young Driver Tests? That makes no sense, since Ricciardo was the other driver in contention for the seat.

      Furthermore, why are you so certain that Raikkonen has already joined? Horner makes it pretty clear that they are still considering two drivers, and as evasive as his answers are, they are consistent with previous comments that Red Bull will not rush to make a decision, and that he doesn’t expect once before the end of the summer break.

      So there is no evidence that a decision has been made by the team, much less an offer put to a driver and that driver accepting it.

  15. Could someone explain to me Webber’s tweet, because I don’t get it at all :/

    1. @phildick – It’s his rowing machine. He’s had the same one for fourteen years, and he reckons it’s rigged and telling him that he’s doing less than he thinks he is.

    2. Could someone explain to me Webber’s tweet, because I don’t get it at all :/

      @phildick – Webber is about to begin a training session on the erg(ometer) and so has taken a pic and posted it to Twitter along with a humorous and joking statement addressing the erg’ as if she is a sentient being, complaining that she has lied continually to him for 14 years, presumably telling him he’s not putting out as much power as he thinks, or that there’s more time remaining in the wko than he expects! Webber knows, though, that she’s actually telling the truth, an admission he begrudgingly shares with all of us, via the hashtag “noshortcuts”.

      Hope that helps. It’s very much just a dry humor, athlete-centric joke about how training sucks but there’s no real shortcut to winning!

      1. @prisoner-monkeys @joepa

        Thanks for the explanation, this final ‘never’ mislead me quite a bit. I also thought he might have alluded to some other recent events in his life and I started looking for a hidden message.

        Joke aside, it sounds a bit like he’s starting to feel ‘old and tired’ of this training routine. And we’re about the same age, oh no ;)

  16. I would prefer Ricciardo to get the Red Bull seat because if nothing else we will get a new race winner in the sport and you’ve gotta keep things fresh.

    If Raikkonen gets the seat I suspect Lotus to go for Paul and Romain gets dropped to make way for Davide

  17. jimscreechy (@)
    18th July 2013, 10:48

    Excellent comment of the day.

  18. Between Raikkonen and Ricciardo
    So it’s RvR at RBR :)

    Please give it to Daniel. I love Kimi but he’s kind of boring too.
    We need new blood and I seriously think Dan could take it to Seb. Just needs a chance to illustrate this point in a top-tier car. STR has a dog of a car and what he and JEV have done to get that in the points on occasion is impressive.

    Ricciardos qualifying is close to best in the field given the machinery he has at his disposal.

  19. Anyone who thinks the sport will be better with Bernie gone is in for a major shock when that day comes

    We’ll never know until it actually happens.

    It’s the same nebulous argument as with Hermann Tilke: oh, you short-sighted critics, don’t you understand that no one in the whole wide world would be able to do the same thing he’s doing for F1 and, by extension, for us. Nobody nowhere is irreplaceable, only here in Formula-1, you know.

    These two monopolize very important aspects of F1, but the apologists would have us believe it’s only for our own good.

    F1 will inevitably go to the dogs financially, organizationally etc. without Mr Ecclestone; while races will be held on irresponsibly designed dangerous tracks once Mr Tilke quits the scene.

    1. I agree with you. As someone said, the graveyard is full of irreplaceable people. Perhaps that’s a very cynical way to put it but I believe that no one is irreplaceable.

      I appreciate the good things that Bernie has done for F1 and it certainly was possible to do it much worse. After all, umpteen other motorsport series have collapsed, while F1 is still alive, which itself is an achievement.

      But it doesn’t mean that there are no other people, who would be able to do Bernie’s job, do it even better and ensure that the sport is more sustainable than it seems to be at the moment. What is more, I think that a really good manager makes sure that the system doesn’t depend on the ability of a single person, not even himself. So if F1 is collapses shortly after Bernie’s retirement, it won’t tell us anything good about Mr Ecclestone’s qualities.

    2. Nobody is saying the sport will never recover; only that it’ll be a shock to see the void he will leave.

  20. I hope that Red Bull hires Raikkonen, not Ricciardo. This is a great opportunity to ensure that two of the very best drivers are in the richest and the most successful team of the recent years. That should make for an awesome internal battle.

    Ricciardo’s results have not been stable enough to convince me that he is another Vettel, who just needs a bit more nurturing to flourish. More importantly, I cannot remember a single case where a promising midfield driver joins a top team that already has its own star driver and is able to perform on the same level. That didn’t happen with Barrichello, Fisichella, Frentzen and Kovalainen and I don’t think it’ll happen with Ricciardo. There are many reasons for this. I don’t think that RBR doesn’t want other drivers than Vettel to win championships but any new driver, who will join the team will be the new kid on the block versus the leader of the gang that Vettel is, with all the natural disadvantages. It’ll take a lot of talent, experience and self-confidence to master the challenge.

    If Ricciardo joins RBR and proves me wrong, I’ll be a very happy fan. But currently I believe that he’d be another Webber in the best case scenario and another Massa in the worst case scenario.

    1. jimscreechy (@)
      18th July 2013, 13:19

      hmm I appreciate your point but perhaps your being overly specific. Vettle himself joined RB and unseated Webber rather convincingly from the top step. Hamilton joined Mclaren as rookie and rather set the grid alight while performing more or less on par with Alonso. I suppose what I mean is where the driver comes from in terms of team status or even race classification is of considerably less importance tha his/(her) abilities. you only have to look at the F1 top performers to see this.

      1. @jimscreechy You are right and I thought about Hamilton and Vettel from that point of view, too. However, their starting points were a bit different. When Hamilton joined McLaren, Alonso was new to the team, too. Hamilton himself actually knew the team better as he had belonged to their Young Driver Support Programme for many years.

        As for Webber, neither Red Bull, nor Webber himself had won a race before 2009, let alone championships. Vettel will be either a triple or a quadruple world champion at the end of this season and the same goes for RBR.

        For sure, I don’t think we’re talking about some kind of formula (no pun intended) here and there are exceptions to every rule anyway. I just doubt if Ricciardo is the right man for the challenge, let’s wait and see what RBR decides…

    2. While an “awesome internal battle” might please many fans, from a RBR perspective it’s more a reason to not hire KR.

      Another Kimi negative is that he’s notoriously disinterested in working on car development. With the all new regulations for next year, drivers who can work closely and constructively with their engineers will be worth bonus points.

      There’s pro’s and con’s for each driver, but I can see why RBR would be taking a long hard look at Ricciardo.

  21. Stupid comment of the day.

    It’s amazing that someone feels the need to write a post sticking up for such a person. And to remind us of all he has done which is practically nothing. Both poster and Bernie are equal in their genius.

    1. Funnily enough your comment proves why it was needed @jaymz!

      I certainly don’t think that Bernie has had only a positive influence on the sport, and the viewpoint of making money, money, money over a sustainable sport for the ones who actually put effort in making the sport happen is a way into a dead alley for me. But you can hardly make the argument stick that Bernie did nothing for F1.

      Just think about it, why would people like Frank Williams, Ron Dennis, Luca Di Montezemelo, Dieter Mateschitz, Peter Sauber, Eddie Jordan, Jean Todt, Niki Lauda or an Adam Parr etc. all highly respect Bernie (even when they themselves are at times in opposing positions to him), if he did not do anything to earn that respect?

  22. Despite the preferences flooding this site for the vacant Red Bull seat, you just have appreciate the difficulty of the situation Kimi Räikkonen and Red Bull are both facing.

    Red Bull most likely cannot attract Räikkonen just by means of salary alone. They will have to allow him less PR duties as well as other freedoms while ensuring that he will not end as number 2 to their well integrated, current 3.5 time champion. Now that is a bit of a pickle already.

    I see a lot of arguments as to why either Ricciardo or Räikkonen fits the best, but I think everyone is missing Red Bull’s main motivation: to promote their awful drink in as many countries globally as possible. No matter how much better Ricciardo may fit as a driver he has a long way to go to reach a mere 10% of Räikkonen’s popularity. Even Vettel is not as popular and especially not outside of Germany. Surely Hamilton or Button are very popular in Britain, while Alonso can currently cover both Spain and Italy, but Kimi always gets the biggest roar regardless of the country except for “home race” podium takers. On top of that Red Bull could not possibly chose a better promoter of their brand as he matches the “RB life style” perfectly. To Sebastian it may matter if Kimi is paid double his salary but to Red Bull the ladder will simply be his weight worth in gold.

    From Kimi’s own perspective the decision is equally difficult. As much as he likes to make a good profit his true motivation is to win races and even championships. At the same time he has to be comfortable with his duties and the people around him which is where Lotus truly excels. They completely respect him for who he is and what he needs while at the same time offering him very exclusive number 1 status. He may step closer to another title by joining Red Bull but he will have to give up a lot of freedom in the process. He has been part of a big marketing machine before and basically hated it enough to leave the sport. What makes his decision even more difficult is that it will make no difference to make that step closer if it is always one step behind his team mate. From that perspective it may make more sense to at least maintain the hopes of Lotus producing something spectacular for 2014.

    1. It’s a gamble for both parties. If Kimi doesn’t take the seat, I will be disappointed, as I expect many people will be. I’m sure RB aren’t stupid and if Kimi says yes, they will take him over Ricciardo. Compared to Ricciardo, Kimi is in a different class both in terms of performance and popularity. Kimi is a brand unto himself, unlike any other driver at the moment.

  23. I think everyone is missing Red Bull’s main motivation: to promote their awful drink in as many countries globally as possible.


  24. @Poul Winther
    “I think everyone is missing Red Bull’s main motivation: to promote their awful drink in as many countries globally as possible”

    Poul- I see this comment as disrespectful and a bit of a joke to be honest. Vodafone are in F1 as they like pretty colours on cars and Petronis back Mercedes just for fun- neither have any interest of finacial gain at all do they!!?? But Red Bull to try to sell their terrible drink (which I do like) is no good?

    I read your post and, in general, its very good and I agree on the most part, but your premise (above comment) is misguided. NO team has sponsors than want to loose money- aka- they promote.

    You seem to have made the assumption that Red Bull and Red Bull Racing are the same- and they are not.
    Do you think Christian Horner (with his foot tapping) Adrian Newey, Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel gives a **** on the units of Red Bull moved as the lights go out????? No.

    Your Kimi V Dan comments are spot on though. Kimi is the most wealthy driver on the grid (by far). He needs no money. Dan got paid little this year- he needs money. But for NEITHER of these guys money is a factor, they want to race fast cars! Kimi is loaded and if Dan gets the job cash will follow. People need to realise that these guys DONT race for money!!

    They will go with Daniel, not because they think Kimi may be faster against Seb (and he could) but he is the real deal. Only 12 months ago quite a few F1F fans wrote off Dan & JEV saying they were Torro Rosso wont be’s. Both are “will be’s” guys and those who know better than us see that.

    I am Aussie so Dan is my fav, but Jean Eric is FAST as well and I see him in the Lotus next year!! Both of these guys will be real good in F1!!!!!!!

    1. I apologize for the offense – it is merely my opinion on the drink and off topic, really.

      However, I do disagree with you that my premise is a joke. Though it is true that all the non-manufacturer teams depend on pleasing their sponsors, it is also true that not all sponsors are created equally and hence do not look for the same thing to promote their product. My point about Red Bull is simply that even if Ricciardo was to perform slightly better than Räikkonen the ladder would still be much more valuable for the brand.

      You can argue that Red Bull racing is a separate entity from the drink but like all major corporations there will very likely be pressure from above when something as brandable as Kimi is available. Trust me; when money is this big there is no such thing as total separation and there is absolutely no way around the fact that Kimi as an entity will appeal one heck of a lot more to “energy” drink buyers than he would to Ferrari or Mercedes buyers.

      No, I am not trying to take anything away from Red Bull Racing as they are obviously not just the real deal but even the best in the field for the fourth year straight.

      Personally I am not convinced that Daniel has shown enough race craft to deserve the seat but on the other hand I am not convinced that it would be the right seat for Kimi. I still believe that it is not Red Bull’s decision we are waiting for but rather that of Kimi. He is obviously torn between the prospect of the fastest car and the best environment while he has got to be Red Bull’s preference for several reasons.

      I should perhaps have refrained from calling Red Bull an awful drink but it was not out of spite towards the race team. I just find the stuff so grossly unhealthy and chemically tasting that it ponders me why people fall for the false “energy” label while in fact the only source of energy it contains is sugar which at any means for multiple reasons should be reduced in the diet!

      ….but that is entirely irrelevant and off topic :-)

  25. almost 4 days late.. Thanks @keithcollantine for the b’day shout

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