Damon Hill, Goodwood Festival of Speed, 2013

Double points “will make things exciting” – Hill

F1 Fanatic Round-upPosted on Author Keith Collantine

Damon Hill, Goodwood Festival of Speed, 2013In the round-up: Damon Hill believes offering double points for the final race will make this season more exciting.


Your daily digest of F1 news, views, features and more.

Schumi’s accident exposes life’s vulnerability: Damon Hill (The Times of India)

“It’s going to be unpredictable with double points proposed in the final race of the season. It will make things exciting. I’ve heard a lot of people say it’s stupid but why isn’t it a good idea? Maybe it’s a great idea. It’s all artificial anyway.”

Shame Indian Grand Prix has been scrapped: Damon Hill (IBN Live)

“The question hinges on what is the value of an international event to India. Maybe within India, it does not have the popularity that it has elsewhere and so it is perceived as not being important. But I think if you go outside India, to have a Formula One race is a good advertisement for a country.”

Schumacher still ‘stable’ (Sky)

“In a possible ray of comfort to Schumacher’s fans, his condition has not been listed as ‘critical’ in the latest update.”

Moody?s warns on F1 debt holder?s rating (FT, registration required)

“Given Mr Ecclestone?s pivotal role in creating the F1 franchise, Moody?s believes that any discontinuation of his participation in negotiations and key strategic decisions may have the potential to cause disruptions in the relationships between the F1 racing teams, F1 and the FIA ?ǣ the governing motorsport body.”

Nothing has changed – Ecclestone (BBC)

“All that’s happened is a few months ago we decided that if I had to appear in court, during that period I would stand down from my role as a director of Delta Topco.”

McLaren in race to make first test (Autosport)

“Although the team plans to launch its new MP4-29 online next Friday (January 24), doubts have now emerged about whether or not the new car will be able to take part in the opening pre-season test.”

Kimi’s world – Raikkonen and the team (Ferrari via YouTube)

Romanian project applies for 2015 F1 entry (Adam Cooper’s F1 Blog)

“It?s understood that some state-owned companies are behind the new project, and that they have decided to pursue their own route after initially considering buying into an existing team late last year.”

Rising son: Jenson Button?s early career (MotorSport)

Jenson Button’s father John: “When he scored his first wet-weather victory at Clay Pigeon. I ran out onto the circuit and threw my hat in the air in the same way that Colin Chapman used to celebrate Lotus F1 victories. Afterwards, I was told very firmly that you weren?t allowed to do that and I could get him disqualified…”


Comment of the day

Robbie’s thoughts on the new V6 turbo era.

Personally I was never concerned about the type of noise these new engines would make. It was never why I watched F1. I?m confident a field of these cars will sound just as impressive, and just different, not inferior. And I think there is ??beauty? in the noise they?ll make when they are using one third less fuel, just as I can look past the ??eyesore? that some think a field of wind turbines is when you recall that they are producing electricity by free wind, not fossil fuels.

And I remain concerned when I hear the likes of Bernie Ecclestone depending on the extra veto power of one team, Ferrari of course, but I am encouraged that even that extra weight does not guarantee them or Ecclestone everything, including drivers’ and constructors’ championships year after year. It certainly fascinates me that potential new entrants like Haas for example would even consider the series when it is skewed towards one team at least on the board if not always on the track.

From the forum

Happy birthday!

Happy birthday to Keeleyobsessed!

If you want a birthday shout-out tell us when yours is by emailling me, using Twitter or adding to the list here.

On this day in F1

Christian Fittipaldi celebrated his 23rd birthday by landing a seat at Arrows for the forthcoming season on this day in 1994. He turns 43 today.

Image ?? F1 Fanatic/Joris Meuffels

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  • 76 comments on “Double points “will make things exciting” – Hill”

    1. Now Hill wants to be Ecclestone butler? hahaha just kidding, but as he says, it’s become all artificial

      1. But it’d be nice to start inverting the trend, rather than continuing it.

      2. Dont know about Butler… but Im sure Ecclestone bribed him

    2. It’s all artificial anyway.

      That is the key

    3. Hill says some things in that article which sums up whats wrong with F1 right now.

      Everything is been done purely to add to the level of unpredictability, To ensure the title fight goes to the final race, To give the guys not leading the title the chance to close the gap by any means, To make everything as exciting as possible regardless of how artificial, unsporting & down right gimmikey you have to go to achieve it.

      F1 & MotorSport (Well all sport really) by itself is unpredictable, You don’t need to add artificial BS into the mix to create unpredictability.
      Why should the title fight go to the final race? Sure that may well be more interesting but so what if the title is won early, If a team/driver has done a better job over the season & wrap the title up a few races early, The others should push harder to do a better job the next year. I’d much rather a title be won earlier than been kept alive to the final race artificially by stupid points rules or whatever else.
      Same with the ‘giving others a chance’, If the other teams/drivers havn’t done a good enough job to stay in the title hunt to the end then they don’t deserve to be gifted extra opportunities via double points, hindering the lead team/driver with tyres or whatever else someone comes up with.

      F1 is just becoming more & more artificial & gimmikey as time goes on, All for the sake of entertainment. Well all this artificial BS has done is turn people off, Maybe its about time they look at the TV ratings, The amount of dissatisfaction amongst fans specifically relating to the artificial, gimmickery they have thrown into the sport.

      Drop the gimmicks, Scale back the artificial nonsense & lets get back to some proper, hard fought racing with real overtaking & a points system where every race awards the same points!

      1. The actual problem is that both the cars and drivers are now so perfected and reliable that the unpredictability we used to have has all but disappeared. Old days, drivers would miss a gear, slip on a corner, the cars would fail, engine, gearbox, ever tyres. Even pit stops are now near perfect. Strategy is now a whole department with people and computers working day and night to work out the best way to run a whole weekend, not just the race. Drivers are super fit, and trained like astronauts. Now, everything is perfect, almost nothing ever fails. On top of that, now if there is a strategy failure which means a fast car gets stuck behind a slightly slower car, bang, DRS.

        We all know how terrible F1 would be now without these nasty gimmicks. Because of the levels of professionalism we now have, the old ever lengthening trains of old would be even worse. Qually would see perfect performance order, and within a few laps, that order would be maintained. The gaps would get longer, and we’d just have a speed sorted train of cars. All reliable, all finishing in order. Back in the day, we could hope for a failure or mistake to shake things up. Better still, the cars would degrade and change, resulting is performance differences and opportunities for drivers. In fact it used to be that merely taking the chequered flag was considered an achievement. Now its a base line, and not finishing is a no no. Had this carried on, fans would be leaving the the sport in droves, like they were before.

        Right now, the only exciting unpredictable part of a race is the start and first lap. And anything they try to do to redress this, is utterly derided by fans. Me included, see my hate of DRS.

        Its a choice. You cant go back to the relative unprofessionalism or the early 90’s and before. (In fact, the recent tyres were effectively an attempt to get back to that. And fans hated that.) No one wants perfect trains of cars lined up in speed order with an ever widening gap between cars during the race. So, we literally have to have these stupid gimmicks to mix it up.

        Essentially, its either trains or gimmicks.

        What would I do? Ditch all the gimmicks and simply start each race in the reverse order of the previous race. Still awful, but at least that leaves it down to the drivers to succeed by driving and racing, and above all, its fair and equal for all of them. Yes, its bad. But in my thinking its one simple fair gimmick which adds excitement, and can mean all the other gimmicks go. We would be left with a pure sport, but with one single artificial gimmick.

        1. But things are only so reliable and perfect because the rules have been tightened and development in all but aerodynamics banned in order to produce a “standard” F1 car as a step to gaining acceptance for a “single” one-design car.

    4. And there goes any respect I had for Hill.

      1. Yeah I hate seeing members of the F1 world endorsing this, thereby giving it legitimacy.

        He’s not wrong though, it will make the Championship unpredictable, and generate a good bit of excitement through artificial means. It’s just that the unpredictability and excitement it creates has undermined the sporting credentials of Formula 1, debases and undermines every other race on the calendar and could create a situation in Abu Dhabi whereby one driver gets lucky, another unlucky, and due to double points we get an unfair outcome and a Champion that will be seen by many as illegitimate. If I wanted to see Championships decided by luck of the draw I’d watch the World Series of Poker.

        1. Some days ago someone said that this double-point thing could be scrapped for 2015. Imagine the poor guy who wins this year’s championship because of this thing. He’d be remembered forever as the guy who got lucky to have double points awarded in the last race which eventually handed him the championship.

          1. @colossal-squid @toiago @matt90 and the problem is not only “the lucky champion”, but that due to this rule, a midfield team (or any team) can be surpassed in points in the last race, and that creates a real lottery where luck is awarded with prize money. That will create another big fuss. That can cause the rule to really be dropped after just one or two years, and there goes the “lucky champion” label stated, for sure.

          2. With reliability likely to be far more of an issue this year, having any race worth more just makes that one more of a lottery.

            1. It’s the F1 roullete!

            2. Pretty much concur with much of what you have all said. I do still respect Hill, but I think it demans F1 further to say it is all artificial anyway. Obviously there is artifcial and then there is ARTIFICIAL given the response to the double points gimmick and it’s indication of a line drawn in the sand by the fans. We don’t have to make that the goal and he makes it sound like it might as well be no holds barred. Would he be happy with every race carrying a different points payout? Likely not.

          3. @toiago – Imagine the poor guy who wins this year’s championship because of this thing. He’d be remembered forever as the guy who got lucky to have double points awarded in the last race which eventually handed him the championship.

            HA! That’s fanciful, mate.

            Hardly think there is a single driver on the grid who would hesitate for even a SECOND to be crowned the 2014 WDC!! And doubt that for even a moment they’d echo your concern.

            1. @joepa, have to agree, being “lucky” WDC beats the crop out of being runner-up.

            2. @joepa But the point is that the sport should never put itself in a position where the legitimacy or worthiness of a champion can be questioned. This double points farce can create that situation. It’s not what the drivers think that’s important here, it’s what the fans and public think. If the viewers of F1 react negatively, and Keith’s poll suggests it’s extremely negatively, then that’ll carry over to their perception of the 2014 champion and the sport itself. A bad deal all round, for the next champion, for the fans, and for the sport itself.

      2. Lost all respect? Why? Because he dared to voice opinions that differ from yours?

        So, you disrespect everyone who doesn’t think like you? You must be a very busy boy my friend.

        1. to be fair @baron I know its not really possible, but if it was possible for an opinion to be wrong, than it would be the double-points rule being a good idea.

          1. @cjpdk – i think some people here slamming Hill have not bothered to read the actual interview! Did you?

            Keith is well-known for excerpting quotes and positioning tweets to sensationalize subjects, stir-up controversy, increase traffic and draw commenters to the site, but you’re not well-served if you don’t read in full what he actually draws from, b/c Hill comes off far from enthusiastically advocating for double points. While he does say it will be exciting, the quote is still decontextualized and basically w/o value here since it’s a component of a much longer, more in-depth, wide ranging interview.

            At least you’re not insulting Hill though, like some of the others who posted before you.

            1. @joepa

              Keith is well-known

              No I’m not.

              excerpting quotes and positioning tweets to sensationalize subjects, stir-up controversy, increase traffic and draw commenters to the site

              I don’t do any of those things.

    5. I was never a fan of Hill, nor most of his views, so if I was a betting man on who would’ve liked this nonsense double points rule it would be him, not surprised by his view at all.

      rational people will not think twice to know this is still stupid.

    6. So many times people have said bad things over Ron Dennis over the past few year. Now he’s back, and everyone is exited! Interesting.

      1. @me4me probably you can separate the person and the “character”. It’s the same you hear about drivers actually. For example, I don’t like Alonso as a person, but I can’t deny his ability in the car. Ron may not be a lovely old man, but his management style looks more promising than MR. Whitsmarth’s, or that’s what I can read from people’s opinions.

    7. Might as well determine the winner by National Lottery results. Maybe HRT were onto something; “it could be you!”.

    8. Fascinated with Gene Haas? All F1 needs is more jail time for white collar crimes on a day to day basis. But hey, I am American, he is American, so I will have someone to root for.

    9. In concurrence with @matt90, Hill has in a single statement lost the credibility I held him in praise for.

      Providing a counter argument, what exactly makes it exciting? The fact that this single, otherwise underwhelming race is worth twice as much to the victor as conquering the hills of the Ardennes or becoming honorary king of the Prinicpality? Or simply the fact that the Sebastian Vettel show will become an extended edition?

      I really hope whoever leading the championship at the end of the penultimate round is doing so by 51 points.

      1. I hope so to (but not the same leader as you :-) ) and what is even worse is that in this multi media age the FIA knows darn well that 90% of fans are absolutely outraged… and they couldn’t care less!

        Now that’s a real problem right there. Who starts the partition?

      2. Actually, let me expand a bit on that:

        If your driver is more than 25 point ahead before then finale but my drivers is crowned as champion – I will never acknowledge that championship and always regard it to your driver in my internal books.

        That should tell FIA a thing or two about how we feel about this madness!

        1. @poul my reasoning is purely that last season, had their been double points Sebastain Vettel would’ve still won the title in India (he may have however had to wait another race) – I’m not implying I wish him to win so dominantly again!

          So really, double points may end up delaying the inevitable, prolonging the torture and crushing false hope.

          @pastaman it is the nature of what they are agreeing to: 90% of F1 fans disagree with the proposal mainly due to it’s artificiality and the loss of sporting credibility that is intrinsic with such gross manipulation of a sporting event. A compelling argument for increased excitement has yet to be presented, but that conjecture would still be invalidated immediately if you consider the fact that one retirement at this super-bonus round is potentially twice as costly.

          An unfortunate circumstance such as a gearbox failure in Abu Dhabi carries double the points ramifications.

          Is that fair? Of course it isn’t, and I would like to see anyone argue that it was yet still retain credibility. The sporting consequences and inequalities resultant from the new regulation it is not unfair to say have irreversibly tainted the championship, unless the rule is overturned.

          Anyone who argues otherwise merits none of my respect.

          1. @Vettel I didn’t think you were at all.

            We fully agree on this one to that point that; even if it is Seb leading Kimi by 40 points going into the final race, Seb has a tire explosion and Kimi wins, I will still regard Seb as the true, deserving champion.

            As much as I would love to see Kimi as double champion, that’s how strongly I oppose on the new points “system”!

            1. You could switch the circumstances and I’d agree with you also! It’s a very silly decision for a sport that I image wishes to be seriously regarded @poul

      3. Somebody said something I don’t agree with, this person is no longer credible… ok.

      4. For this so called rule (which is just a gimmick) to die as disgracefully as it was conceived, I hope that the last race starts with Vettel 19 points behind Alonso and that the race ends with Vettel winning, while Alonso comes in as number 3, 4, 5 or 6. Thus Alonso would have been WDC without the new “rule” designed to add “spice” to the last race, but in this scenario it only causes the Vettel era to continue, without adding exitement to the last race:-)

        1. Better still Vettel starts the last race 51 points ahead and the whole thing is even more of a farce.

    10. Where the heck in Europe did they shoot that video with Kimi in the Ferrari, that is the first time I’ve seen a diesel ram being driven over there. I had to double take because it almost seemed like he was in the U.S.

      1. Never mind it was a 1500

      2. i wonder it was in maranello… chk out 0:31… there is a huge (traffic) board saying so..

        1. The City sign, license plates and road signs, and other types of cars on the road, etc all more or less show where this interview took place.

      3. You do know that FIAT own Dodge as well as Ferrari.

    11. “McLaren will pass all the tests prior to track running.” Yes you will. That’s the rule.

      1. Beautiful, that one.

      2. Exactly what I thought when I read that, @scalextric. Off course it remains to be seen when exactly that will be, I think it does prove Eric B. did have sound information about other teams not making the start of the test, although he might have underestimated what resources and determination Ron Dennis is going to throw at it for McLaren to make it to that test anyway (lets see if they do make it)

    12. I believe that right now people are bashing the double points but I believe that come the time, everybody will be excited. Same as the new Turbocharged V6 with ERS, people were saying that it was a bad idea for the sport and now in the comments, I mostly see positive ones that are looking forward to the upcoming season and its unpredictability. I believe that it might just be what F1 needs. Might. I honestly think the reception will go down as a result of whoever benefits from it the most. The fans of whichever teams or drivers will have different opinions based on how they performed. Just like DRS. If their driver gets the overtake, DRS is second to God. If their driver gets overtaken, DRS is second to death. If a popular driver wins, I think we’ll get comments such as “Great job by him. He completely deserved it even though he started the race 49 points behind. Got the job done when it mattered worse.” But if a popular yet unpopular driver wins the race and the championship as a result, we will probably get comments such “That was a unfair and artificial championship. It has no place in his trophy cabinet. He just got lucky.” The result the double points idea will be based on the race results in my opinion.

      P.S. If you can’t tell, I am for it, and yet in some aspects, I’m against it.

      1. *When it mattered most

      2. I’ll be gutted it my favourite driver wins just because of a nonsense super-mega-double-points-bonanza.

    13. Thank you @keithcollantine for Cotd.

    14. So according to this Mark Priestley dude, Ron Dennis has some ‘very exacting principals’. I don’t get it. Dennis is back in school, has more than one headmaster, and none of them will cut him any slack?

      1. If you googled his name, you could have found out ‘this Mark Priestley dude’ worked for McLaren under Ron Dennis.

        Are you by any chance employed by Buzzfeed or Upworthy?

        1. He’s joking about the incorrect use of ‘principals’ rather than ‘principles’.

        2. Well, for one thing that doesn’t make him anything else than this dude to me, and no I do not work for either of them – wouldn’t accord with my principals!

    15. It’s not that surprising to see Hill give the new rules some support. Their makers are probably the same people who tried so hard to make him champion in 1994 ;)

      1. You mean Benetton by keeping Schumacher on track despite being black flagged and that evil plank that was too work after the shunt at Spa?

        The FIA’s decisions were somewhat icky, but if the FIA was really that hellbent on gifting Hill the championship, how did they miss the most obvious opportunity to disqualify Schumacher?

        1. Well said @npf1 How ridiculous to suggest that 20 years later DH is still trying to thank the FIA for failing to award him the WDC in 94. Perhaps the fact that after so many illegalities with the Benetton that year…so much controversy…culminating with the whack on DH…well no wonder Hill can bring himself to say it’s all artificial anyway.

          1. That Bennetton was so bent it was untrue. One of the engineers admitted afterwards it had been running with a bastardised traction and launch control system.

            It was on;y after 97 that drivers got DQ’d for serious foul play. If it happened tomorrow Schumacher would be dq’d and Hill would be champion.

            I don’t agree with him on the double points issue, but the teams voted it through so they only have themselves to blame.

          2. Oh come on guys! Is there no power in the ;) smiley anymore?
            @npf1 You are one of my favorite commenters.. don’t bite.
            I know the 1994 season was a huge mess, with many different people doing many different dubious things. I obviously haven’t forgotten about the season finale, so I know that if they really wanted to chuck him out they could have.

            1. @meander My sarcasm meter is a little numb when it comes to the 1994 season, as people on YouTube say things that are way more out there and actually do mean it.. :P

    16. You want unpredictability, Bernie? Here’s a rule for you. After every race, the driver who was leading the Championship coming into this race will be decked 3 points. The beauty of the rule is that you can adjust it easily just by changing 3 to 2, or to 10 in case of Red Bull domination :-).
      Furthermore, it does not affect midfield and backmarker teams, so the damage to the sport’s creditability is lower than the double-point race idea. Now if Bernie is reading this, you know how the 2015 season will go :-).

    17. No points for the guy on Jeopardy was a bit harsh, I thought.
      He did well to remember Michael Andretti’s time in F1…

      1. @bullfrog hehehe, can you introduce me to Ralf Andretti then?

    18. Whilst I agree with Hill that the double points will be exciting, it is completely wrong. For me the worst Grand Prix of 2013 was the one that should have been the best, Monaco was ruined by pedestrian driving. Would I swap a dull Monaco (and others) for one artificially exciting race? No.

      Another horror element of this gimmick is, ironically, half points. In a season where reliability is going to be crucial we could end up with a scenario of one race worth FOUR times as much. That to me is madness.

    19. I wonder how exciting Hill would have found it in ’96 if double points had been implemented then? Had it been, then a 2nd in Suzuka for polesitter JV coupled with a 6th or lower for Hill would have unjustly deprived him of his title.

      1. As a huge JV fan I would have been over the moon, but I honestly don’t know how I would defend him against the hoards that would have been claiming DH was robbed…again. By mere math this time, not an on-track collision.

        Then again…if it’s all artificial anyway, perhaps DH places no value on his WDC or his other stats in F1, and couldn’t care less.

    20. gosh there’s a lot of outraged of Tunbridge Wells watching F1 these days. F1 has always been the pinnacle of subterfuge, cheating, stealing, silly ideas and back room politics. It is after all a pastime, it’s not real life unless you work in it. Enjoy it, laugh at it but if you can’t, stop watching. I did with football. I’m pretty sure I’m not missed. Don’t ever think as a fan you are important. You’re not. I’m not.

    21. I like how “from the forums” has Robert Kubica crashes out from Monte Carlo Rally. I would like to point out a few things so people do not get the wrong impression of kubica at monte carlo.

      – He won the first 2 stages of the rally in very trying conditions, where the top drivers chose the same tyres, the first stage he won shockingly by 19 seconds – in only his second WRC rally! put that into perspective with Kimi Raikonnen, who only won 1 stage in his WRC career.
      -He was fighting for a genuine top 3 finish. in the 50km stage he crashed out from, he was the only driver going at the same pace as champion Ogier throughout the stage
      -he put to shame career WRC drivers like Otsberg, Sordo, Latvala and Hirvonnen – thrashing them in most stages.
      -his performance in this rally is more important then his WRC2 crown, and his recent ERC win at the Janner Rally because of the competition he is up against.
      -his rally career is only 1 year old!

      -lets not forget he is basically a disabled driver now.

    22. Hill: Double points “exciting”

      Me: Hill “wrong”

    23. It’s all artificial anyway.

      Pitiful mentality.

    24. Anyone find it kind of nostalic that Kimi is quite chatty?

    25. So, in the great philosopher D. Hill’s view, if the patient is seriously injured let’s shoot him in the head and be done with it. Pathetic

      Less than 60 days until the start of my 21st season as an F1 fan. I await the new season and the new cars with immense anticipation and excitement. But unless that rule isn’t changed (or at least real moves are being made to get rid of it, not vague “maybes” about 2015) I will not be watching it. Not live, not in highlights not in any way. Yes, it’s going to be extremely difficult, but to accept such a farce is even more difficult for me

    26. Chris Brighton
      18th January 2014, 20:01

      Hopefully it doesn’t happen this year but it won’t make it exciting if the Championship is already decided, that I can tell you! It’s still a stupid decision by the FIA to award double points for the last race. No race is worth double, especially Abu Dhabi.

    27. Part of the predictability of F1 these days (and why they’re introducing more and more gimmicks) is down to the supreme reliability of all the teams.

      Go back a couple of decades and you could never be sure until the very end that a car would make it to the finish (Mansell’s ’91 campaign is a good example) but these days they’re all bullet proof – Max Chilton is proof!

      Might be an oversimplification but have cost controls taken F1 from bleeding edge to relative conservatism?

      Just thinking out loud now but I am so bored with this sport.

      1. RaceProUK (@)
        18th January 2014, 23:12

        Reliability doesn’t have to mean boring racing. Technical failures are very rare in the BTCC, yet it has some of the closest and most thrilling racing in any series I follow.

    28. I think that double points don’t make more exciting.

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