In the round-up: Haas wants to be in with a chance of scoring points in its first season in F1.
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Haas hoping for points on F1 debut at 2016 Australian GP (Sky)
Guenther Steiner: "To have a chance of points is our goal and to put on a good show. To show what we have worked the last two years for and we have no big dramas going on."
Ferrari: Don't read into Haas deal (Autosport)
"We need to see them as an aligned but not connected racing team which will do whatever it needs to do to race and life goes on."
CNN International's The Circuit Tours Haas F1 Team Banbury Facility (Haas via Youtube)
Ferrari sputters on start line as it returns to standalone status (FT - registration required)
"The carmaker has a high level of debt and is engaged in a five-year growth plan which many analysts believe is overly ambitious."
Ferrari spinoff puts focus on Marchionne’s FCA revamp (Detroit News)
"Investors received one Ferrari share for every 10 Fiat Chrysler shares they owned."
Massa up for a fight with the big boys (F1i)
"In 2017 everything will change so it can even be positive to stay but I think I will have time to decide and to see what the options will be and even if I stay in this very nice team like Williams or not, I don’t know."
Tech Analysis: Exhausts set to be F1's 2016 design talking point (Motorsport)
"If one team finds a way of cleverly blowing exhaust gases on to some aerodynamic parts it could deliver a performance benefit."
If I Ran F1: Mark Preston (The Paddock Magazine)
"The more successful you are, the more you earn, the more you can specialise, and this perpetuates further success. We see this very clearly in today’s Formula 1."
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Comment of the day
More views on how Haas will fare in their first season:
Gene Haas has seemingly done everything right so far.
He has a top driver in Romain Grosjean (and a not-so top driver in Esteban Gutierrez), has a technical partnership with Ferrari and he has not rushed this project. With Ferrari power units, they should be handy on the straights compared to Renault, Red Bull, Toro Rosso and probably McLaren. I expect a number of points this year.
On another note, Manor need to build a solid chassis and hire two decent drivers for them to really be taken seriously. This is a massive opportunity for them.
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StefMeister (@stefmeister)
5th January 2016, 1:11
Martin Brundle =
What good will futuristic, Dramatic (And even equal) cars be if the racing is still of a poor quality?
Like a lot of others within F1 Martin is putting the primary focus on the wrong thing. The primary focus should be on improving the quality of the racing & removing the perceived need for artificial gimmicks like DRS & high degredation tyres.
Yes (@come-on-kubica)
5th January 2016, 3:13
Martin is nothing more than a puppet nowadays for Sky, he’s just happy he gets to drive all those F1 cars.
RaceProUK (@)
5th January 2016, 13:06
But when he said the same sort of things when he was at the BBC, he was applauded for them.
Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
5th January 2016, 17:05
@come-on-kubica I agree. @raceprouk he didn’t act the same way at bbc. I wonder if you can remember his first stint on bbc? Anyway 2011 was a golden year on F1’s UK broadcasting standards.
AmbroseRPM (@ambroserpm)
5th January 2016, 3:30
I think he is meaning that we can make it futuristic, dramatic and equal whilst improving the racing. Wanting to improve the racing has turned into a want which isn’t necessary to be verbalised, it is so obvious.
Unfortunately the cars don’t seem to be heading the way of being futuristic, dramatic and equal nor will they improve the racing.
sato113 (@sato113)
5th January 2016, 22:14
i think by saying ‘equal’ he is implying the racing would be better as a result…
Strontium (@strontium)
5th January 2016, 2:04
COTD is very good. Just to add to that, if Manor do step up, and Haas do well, and Honda have got the supposed minimum 2 second leap forward, could we see Sauber once more being left behind as in 2014? They’ll have the Ferrari engine but I’d be surprised if the chassis is great, not to forget an unimpressive lineup.
I still believe that Nasr has huge potential, and may shine this year, Ericcson on the other hand, not so much.
I fear Haas are in for a horrific shock though. To make the claim, with absolutely no first hand experience racing in Formula One, that they could be fighting for points from round one, is risky to say the least.
lockup (@)
5th January 2016, 5:11
Yeah I was thinking this @strontium. When we look at who they have to beat to get a point – say three cars among Force India, Torro Rosso and Red Bull, it looks like setting himself up for a disappointment. And there’s so much to learn operationally as you say.
Plus that worrying thing about having come up with something new and cleverer on aero…
Scottie (@scottie)
5th January 2016, 5:16
You might think that a new team talking up their hopes isn’t the smartest of things to do, but Günther Steiner and Ben Agathangelou have seen a bit of time in F1. With their close association with Ferrari I hold a bit of hope for them, along with Romain, to deliver at least in the opening rounds of the season.
Sven (@crammond)
5th January 2016, 10:16
Talking up their prospects might also help sponsor acquisition, so they might be inclined to do that irrespective of whether they think they can fulfill that or not.
That said, points in the first race in 2015 meant to be in the first 10 out of 11 finishing cars, it wasn´t really neccessary to beat anyone bar the McLaren. 2016 will probably be a bit more difficult, but simply not being to far behind the pack and having at least one car finish an incident-free race might be enough to do the trick.
q85
5th January 2016, 6:28
thing is with Manor, they aren’t just a little bit behind. They would need a massive step up in general performance (non engine) to get anywhere near off the back of the grid. I hope they do though, just don’t see it right now.
GeeMac (@geemac)
5th January 2016, 8:29
Having an up to date chassis for 2016 will help them there, they ran a barely modified 2014 chassis last season. The performance that will come from moving from a 2014 Ferrari PU to a 2016 Mercedes will also be gigantic. Manor should be able to be competitive.
grat
5th January 2016, 14:26
Well, they’ve been working on their 2016 chassis since the end of 2014, they’re getting essentially Williams powertrains… Give them a decent couple of drivers (Rossi and someone better than Will Stevens), and they should be able to compete for points.
John H (@john-h)
5th January 2016, 7:44
Aren’t Haas running 2015 Ferrari PUs and Sauber 2016?
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
5th January 2016, 7:45
@john-h No, Haas have 2016 units. Only Toro Rosso have the old ones.
sato113 (@sato113)
5th January 2016, 22:15
why did torro rosso lose out here? @keithcollantine
Scottie (@scottie)
5th January 2016, 22:54
Perhaps due to their really good 2015 chassis? It may have spooked them, along with the main teams demands at the time of the deal…
John H (@john-h)
6th January 2016, 20:19
Ah, thanks. Makes sense.
grat
5th January 2016, 14:22
Yeah, that guy Gunther Steiner… No experience in an F1 paddock at all.
Neel Jani (@neelv27)
5th January 2016, 4:40
Looking in the background of the Haas facility, you can predict the livery colours. They’ve smartly hide the car with a black livery for now but I think the background suggests those colours. It makes even more sense if you consider it to be a Ferrari B team.
Kingshark (@kingshark)
5th January 2016, 5:09
I predict white, red, and black (abundance of colour on chassis in that order). Kind of like the early-to-mid 2000’s BAR Honda cars.
Fast
5th January 2016, 11:37
yellow
grat
5th January 2016, 14:31
The logo is red/white– Whatever the base color of the car is, that logo needs to stand out. Black would work, but be boring. Silver/grey would be terrible. Yellow could work, red would be tricky (You’d need a large surround to keep the H from getting lost in the car color).
I expect a white plus “strong” (red, yellow, maybe blue) color combination, with the Haas logo on the white portion of the livery.
BasCB (@bascb)
5th January 2016, 6:19
Haas certainly show confidence in the car that was built for them. But given that they have no experience in F1 so far at all and will need some practice to get things working like clockwork, I would be quite surprised if they did manage to get close to the points in their first race.
Jeanrien (@jeanrien)
5th January 2016, 8:14
@bascb They might have more chance at the beginning that at the end. With their structure, it’s ‘easier’ to come with a good chassis at the first race than keeping the needed development rate (doing a BAR but in the midfield).
In addition first round is usually an opportunity with many retirements due to technical failures, cars not totally ready…
BasCB (@bascb)
5th January 2016, 8:42
Good point on development there @jeanrien, especially since the tight cooperation they had last year in the run up will not be allowed for this year, and I doubt the Haas guys will have much of a clue where to improve the car towards at the start of their effort.
I guess we will see how many cars fail this year (Honda and Renault are likely to be at least somewhat improved, right?), although I think its not unlikely that at least one of the Haas cars will be amongst the retirements!
GeeMac (@geemac)
5th January 2016, 8:24
While I am a big fan of the way that Haas has gone about its business so far and while I do genuinely hope that they will be successful in F1, I am starting to think that they are underestimating just how much effort it will take to break into the points in F1. Assuming that Mercedes, Ferrari, Williams and Red Bull will be the top 4 teams and will in most cases fill 8 of the points paying places, Haas will have to beat one or more cars from Force India, Renault, STR, McLaren and Sauber to be competing for the last few points, that is a massive ask for a new team.
Lets also not forget that, while they are getting loads of kit “straight off the shelf” from Ferrari, they have to do all of their aero work themselves and while they are working in partnership with Ferrari and Dallara on this as well, success still isn’t a given. Sauber ran the same engines as Ferrari last season (though not always the latest specification I admit) and their underdeveloped aero concept left them way down the field.
I have high hopes for Haas, but in normal circumstances I don’t see them fighting for points until much later in the season.
BasCB (@bascb)
5th January 2016, 8:44
Maybe they hope to have one of their drivers mirror the “out of the blue” success Nasr had this year in Australia @geemac :-)
I too fear that they are a bit over confident. It has happened to most other new entrants too.
pastaman (@)
5th January 2016, 13:00
You people are silly. What do you expect a racing team to say? “I think we’re going to come last every race.”?? That’s just insane, why even join F1 if that is your thought process?
Are they saying they are going to be constant points finishers? No.
Are they saying they are going to win races? No.
Nobody is underestimating the effort. If you watch the video, Gunther says that even coming last takes a tremendous effort. They have been building the team for over 5 years. The team is over 90% former employees of other F1 teams, do you really think no one there has an idea of how hard F1 really is?
We all scream for the grid to be filled, yet we ridicule a new team joining the grid just for setting a goal of getting some points. Silly.
GeeMac (@geemac)
5th January 2016, 15:24
Ridicule? ;)
I do agree with you @pastaman, teams have to talk themselves up. It gets people in the team motivated and generates interest and gets sponsors on board. But the Haas top brass have talked themselves up to near BAR levels in previous weeks (https://www.racefans.net/2015/11/07/f1-fanatic-round-up-0711-3/). Steiner is a clever guy, Haas is a clever guy, I don’t doubt that they know how hard it will be to be competitive in F1. But they have set the bar very high bar for themselves with all of their talk and I fear there will be a lot of disappointed fans out there come Melbourne if they don’t carry putting out comments more along the lines of those Steiner made in the videos linked above.
pastaman (@)
5th January 2016, 15:32
@geemac sorry, it was more directed at the reply to your comment.
It’s true that bringing up the rear will result in disappointed fans, but that would be true no matter where the bar is set.
Of course as you mentioned, sponsorships also have a large influence on the language, and a disappointed sponsor is a much bigger problem :)
Sensord4notbeingafanboi (@peartree)
5th January 2016, 17:13
I think F1 ought not to force manufacturers to supply equal engines, it’s not fair but also it’s not good to shun investors when the show is waning. In my view it would be an improvement for the spectacle and a message that going for a power formula is undesired. Only natural to see this much focus on PU’s as they are such a grid differentiator. To solve the conundrum either make the championship more accessible to a larger number of manufacturers or go single supplier. As ever it’s a matter of commitment, yes or no, not maybe. Free the engines or restrict everything?
BasCB (@bascb)
5th January 2016, 17:41
Well, well @pastaman
So, I guess that was about my comment then?
Tell me, is it silly to think one is over confident when a new team that has not turned a wheel for an inch already comes out saying they are gunning for points. The last teams that entered the sport amassed 2 points between them within 5 years. Sure, talk up how you are not going to be just hugging the last row forever and have a plan. But honestly, they can be greatly satisfied if they manage to qualify both cars and have them still running at the end of the race.
To expect anything more is just plain silly. However much we would like a new team to really be able to race, putting the bar too high just does not help anything apart from preparing one to be disappointed.
faulty (@faulty)
5th January 2016, 23:33
I want my Barcelona testing, and I want it now!
JohnS
6th January 2016, 22:00
If (as is expected) Haas have a better engine than Red Bull, Renault, Toro Rosso and McLaren in 2016, then I see no reason why they should not pick up points and finish tenth or even as high as eighth in the WDC.
SauberS1 (@saubers1)
6th January 2016, 23:13
it will be very interesting, how can they perform. I expect more from them than previously little teams.