Start, Singapore, 2017

Vettel says first-lap crash “doesn’t change much” as Ferrari blame Verstappen

2017 Singapore Grand PrixPosted on Author Keith Collantine

Ferrari has held Max Verstappen responsible for the crash which eliminated both its drivers on the first lap of the Singapore Grand Prix.

Verstappen and Kimi Raikkonen made contact which sent the Ferrari into the side of team mate Sebastian Vettel.

Although Vettel was initially able to continue with damage he then spun out at turn four.

Ferrari described the incident on social media saying “[Verstappen] took [Raikkonen] out and then he went to [Vettel].” The stewards are investigating the collision.

Vettel told reporters the crash was “not ideal”.

“I didn’t see that much,” he explained. “I saw Max and the next thing I see is obviously Kimi hitting the side of me and Max somewhere there. Obviously all three of us.”

“We move on, it doesn’t change much. Obviously we’re not in the pace, that’s a pity. We can’t show the pace that we have but I’m sure there will be more opportunities.”

Vettel told his team on the radio after the crash: “Sorry. I’m really sorry.”

Singapore Grand Prix first-lap crash in pictures

This article will be updated.

2017 Singapore Grand Prix

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Posted on Categories 2017 F1 season, 2017 Singapore Grand Prix

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  • 159 comments on “Vettel says first-lap crash “doesn’t change much” as Ferrari blame Verstappen”

    1. I’m sure this is gonna be a fantastic race completely unpredictable and full of overtaking. Lovely :)

    2. Kimi would have punted Vettel if Max had managed to pull out of the sandwich…

      1. Now that I see it better, it is RAI fault. He turns right way too soon (similar to what VET did to WEB in Turkey 2010). His rear right tyre impacts from behind with VER front left. Then all turns into caos. You can see it here. http://oi65.tinypic.com/azj96h.jpg

        But I still insist that VER could’ve lifted and turn right. You can see that he was already behind VET before the contact with RAI. http://oi67.tinypic.com/2nhdxfo.jpg

        1. @naylamp, Why would he lift? It’s on the straight. You don’t have to make way for other cars while driving on the
          straight. Other drivers actually have to make sure enough space remains for the the other car(s) to remain on track besides them.

          This 100% Vettel’s fault. Bad start + red mist = crash.

          1. How can vettel know that kimi is inside he just saw max trying to overtake so he just tried to block max its max mistake not to turn right as vettel is leading him

          2. Max very easily could have avoided yet another collision. I’ve said this many times over the years, the only car that’s aware of them being three wide is the car in the middle. Therefore he’s the one that can do something to avoid the inevitable collision. I’ve been in exactly the same situation a few times, happened to me just 6 weeks ago in July. I started 4th and found myself between P1 and P2 going towards turn 1. The second I saw P1 start to move over to cover the inside line I immediately braked out of it and avoided a three way collision. The last thing I want is to damage my kart, or be spun out and end up at the back of the pack. Of course Max once again says there’s nothing he could do and it’s everyone else’s fault. The guy is completely incapable of admitting fault. There’s nothing I hate more than drivers who always blame others, and never admit to mistakes. When a guy is involved in constant collisions, it says a lot about his ability to drive clean and fair. I’m not saying this incident deserved a penalty, it was very close, and probably a racing incident. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t avoidable though, it absolutely was.

            1. Stange view on things. He had a better start than vet and was chasing him for position.

            2. What kind of manner of sensible driving would be to brake, off the line, in a high acceleration zone?! He would have been clouted from behind for good measure. He was given absolutely nowhere to go. And I’m no fan of Max. In fact, as an Australian, he gives me good reason to be infuriated regularly.
              Not really sure you can compare your karting to F1, buddy. Slightly different reaction times.

            3. Hannu Saarenmaa
              19th September 2017, 17:55

              Is there a right of way in F1? I doubt.

              In our daily commute there is none, either.

              So,,,? If you crash, it is all over you.

              Citation: ‘ Vettel told his team on the radio after the crash: “Sorry. I’m really sorry.” ‘

      2. looking at the trajectory of each car from the start to impact to me it looks like VET made three mistakes. He did not adjust the line he would take if he had an average stage, he did not adjust his line for the wet conditions and he did not expect RAI to have the best start of the front 4. Unlucky but that’s racing. Please no one got penalties.

    3. Of course Ferrari blames Max

      Otherwise they must admit they just threw away the championship by their own fault

      1. That’s the story of Limping horses throughout all the years they lost drivers title.

      2. Maybe Ferrari should look at the first photo and explain how exactly MV avoids the Ferrari sandwich…
        Raikkonen was reckless as a number two, risking a first corner collision with a dramatic overtake in the wet. Vettel was completely incautious to try to squeeze Verstappen when he could have played safe and concentrated on winning over the race distance. As for Verstappen, I really can’t see what he did wrong. Just a case of an easy blame given his reputation.

        1. Fully agree, very easy to blame MV on the basis of ‘inexperience’ but just because SV and KR have been in the game for longer by no means makes them infallible. As we see from Vettel’s apology, he clearly felt some measure of responsibility.

    4. If anything, Vettel is at fault for his squeezing of Verstappen. I doubt he knew that Raikkonen was on the other side of Verstappen, however.

      1. But anyone ahead will “squeeze” the car that is behind

      2. +1 i don’t he knew that but he got his “karma” when he went left.

      3. or VER could have lifted.

        1. ………..or Vettel could have NOT aggressively squeezed Max on a very slippery track at the first corner. Vettel completely to blame for 4 cars having to retire.

          1. Especially with such a short run to the first turn.

          2. That’s just a ridiculous statement. Absurd. No driver starting from pole can be expected to not move over and protect the inside line. Any racing driver in any series will do so, and conditions are completely irrelevant. What was he supposed to do, just go straight and let people drive past? That’s not racing, that’s traffic. What a joke. No matter what Max does, his fanboys say he’s innocent. No matter how many times he consistently tangles with other drivers, he’s perfect, and every other driver on the grid is wrong. Pathetic.

            1. any points you just tried to make were clouded by your clear bias and hatred towards Max, (i’m not even a MV fan) win your points with actual logic.

          3. Agree 1000%. This business that VER should be expected to lift on a straight is really so very strange. The strange thing is VER is the only car that is actually going straight on the straight and yet it’s his fault for not making his car disappear or be gentleman enough to give way to Ferrari. Shocking.

        2. He did…but rear tyres are wider than front which is why Kimi clipped VER

          1. He didn’t even see RAI. He din’t even use his left mirror.

        3. Why? Why should he?

          Basically what you are saying here is that no one is allowed to overtake anyone. You honestly think it’s ok for Vettel to drive at other people just because they are passing him and if there is an accident it is the other drivers fault for not backing out? Basically you want F1 races where the guy in front can just swerve at other people and they always have to back off? Seriously think through what you are saying.

          1. VET was defending the position. It is not that he changed lines twice.

            1. And Verstappen was overtaking, why should he back off? Why are you saying that no one is allowed to overtake in F1?

            2. where did I say that? You are changing my words to invalidate my argument.

            3. Verstappen had a better start than Vettel and was alongside him. You are saying he should have backed off just because Vettel decided to drive at him. If that is the case then basically any driver could stop anyone from overtaking them by just driving at them when they are alongside and the other driver would have to back off again like you want.

              Ergo you want no overtakes in F1. I’m not putting words in your mouth I’m explaining why your point is wrong.

            4. I have put a response to you in a previous comment. I see now that is mostly RAI fault for turning right too soon. I don’t see VET move was wrong. Every poleman threatened to be surpassed squeezes his rival. Nothing new there. If you see the footage, VET move didn’t change VER line. VER went left before VET squeezed him because he noted RAI was gaining on the left.

            5. @naylamp
              Vet did an aggressive left and Ver did react, Vet had enough room and didnt need that aggressive move, spray was bad as everyone said, noone to blame, if anything Vettel did move unnecessary.

            6. It was necessary because of his poor start. Aggressive but still legal. If anything, it was RAI fault (ala VET on WEB in Turkey 2010). For me, the only wrong on VET was his poor start.

            7. “Verstappen had a better start than Vettel and was alongside him. ”

              No, he was almost a car behind

          2. Because that happens when you dont’.Maybe the next time he doesn’t lift, it will be HAM. I want to listen to you then.

          3. He should have backed off to save his own ass, obviously. He admitted that Vettel wouldn’t have known about Kimi, and also that he did try to back out. The problem is he waited too long before backing out. If he wasn’t so aggressive and a little cooler headed, he’d have backed out right away. The only driver that can possibly know that they’re ruining three wide, is the car in the middle. End of story.

            1. You know its a race?
              Trying to overtake especially when you have a better start is not only normal but expected behavior.

        4. Is that what an F1 driver does on a straight?

        5. He did but got interlocked between the rear wheels of the Ferraris heading for one another. When he arrived at turn one his car was still in the best condition of the three, because he bailed out of it early. If it hadn’t for the second Räikkönen contact he could well have finished the race.

        6. @naylamp He could have – to get out of a dangerous situation – but he had no obligation to. This was on a straight, so drivers are required to leave an appropriate amount of space. Verstappen was not the one crowding any cars, Vettel was the one force in him to the left and into Raikkonen.

          1. VET couldn’t see RAI, he left more than one car width.

            Nobody to blame

            1. But you blamed the reckless ver already without any thoughts.

        7. He did lift off to get out but there was no more room for him to go anywhere. Seb made a stupid move he is the only one to blame for that . Also its surprising Alonso managed to run for 8 laps after taking that big hit at start. He was another innocent bystander in all this.

        8. I hear he lifted but his front left hit Kimi right rear ( much bigger then an front tyre) so he was locked between the Ferrari´s

      4. Max just had to lift to stay clear. There is no excuse for him to steer left into kimi as both were alongside. I know drivers have to take it to the limit as it is their job but max tries to hard to salvage a situation not is his favor. This self entitled brat just didn’t want to get out of the throttle. Ask dani ric said, max is a sore loser.

        1. That’s a very ignorant reading of the situation Billy. You would be correct if Vettel was following a racing line into the first corner and thus squeezed Ver out, but it was on the straight. Vettel abandoned his line on the middle of the straight and essentially aimed himself to crash into Ver. Very bad driving.

          1. What vet did was a pretty common tactic by most pole sitters. Yes, he was aggressive but I don’t see anything wrong with that. Max on the other hand got a better start but kimi had a even better one. He reacted by initially giving space kimi on the left. He then noticed the door closing and should have backed out and not steer left into kimi which he knows is there. That is what irks me. It is a racing incident that could have been prevented if max wasn’t so gung-ho.

          2. +1 So Verstappen should have lifted instead of racing? Makes absolutely no sense. Of the three drivers, the one to angle the most and cause the sandwich collision was Vettel, not MV. Nobody did anything wrong, but both Ferrari drivers were incautious or plain reckless given what was at stake in the championship.

            1. Its a racing line which every pole sitter take at frst turn,max made a crazy move to left which started the collision and made raikonnen into vettel

            2. Even in the corner. DO NOT LIFT. You must be crazy. The kid ruined a team’s chance of WDC. He had nothing to lose and forgot about the danger. Just like his dad. Great talent in that aspect.

        2. Max lifted but he couldn’t get out of it anymore as bot Ferraris squeezed him

      5. If ever there was a “racing incident”, this is it IMO. From what I saw (especially from the on-board camera views), VET slightly pointed towards VES on the grid, & vice versa. RAI gets a dynamite start, and jinks straight for the gap that is opening on the inside when VES trajectory takes him slightly right. VET is ahead, and keeps coming left (mind you, after the initial getaway, there’s VERY LITTLE STEERING INPUT from either of these three drivers). Now, you could argue that Seb was overly aggressive but he was on pole, clearly in the lead of the race, & fully entitled to to choose his line. However, I think if he’d noticed that Kimi was so far up the inside of Max (without contact, I’m of the view that turn one would have been Kimi’s), then he might not have squeezed Max so hard. From Verstappen’s perspective, with Kimi alongside him & Seb squeezing left, he had absolutely nowhere else to go short of slamming on the brakes… & playing devil’s advocate, there’s absolutely no reason why Max would brake. In his mind the Ferrari’s had more to lose & so caution would stand to benefit them more if we’re contemplating the big picture. Max said it plainly before the race: he’d be going for it in turn one if he saw a chance. As far as who hit who, from where I sit it looks like Verstappen & Kimi initially made contact after Max moves to avoid Vettel. The front of Kimi’s right rear made contact from behind with Verstappen’s front left (so technically, Kimi hit Max). Kimi loses his right rear corner & spears across into Vettel (just missing the Red Bull, but losing his front endplate on Vettel’s side pod in the process). Now completely out of control, Kimi finishes collecting the Red Bull (which in turn collects Alonso) in turn one. Vettel & Max didn’t appear to make contact at all.

        1. +1 To all people saying it was VET fault, please read the previous comment. VER turn left way before VET squeezed him because RAI was gaining on him.

    5. Max had a better start than vettel, clearly to see that vettel pushed both Max and Kimi to the right.

      1. Not blaming VER because I think nobody is to blame, bu how VER had a better start when VET was almost a car ahead.

        VET and VER had no good starts compared to RAI

    6. GtisBetter (@passingisoverrated)
      17th September 2017, 14:51

      it does change a lot actually. This was a perfect chance for Vettel to beat mercedes and get some breathing space where they could dictate. Now he is behind a great driver, with a great car, with great reliability. Not a good place to be. Still anything can happen.

    7. I am a fan, but Ferrari is having a brain fade similar to VET in Baku by blaming VER. I reckon VER could be quite nasty, but it’s not his fault by any means this time. The entire fault goes to VET. I wouldn’t call it another ”dumb move” by VET, but it’s fore sure 1 of the most uninspired moves to keep position in F1 history. Not only he reduced almost to zero his title chances on his own (forgetting that the race is not won in the 1st lap), but he took out of the race the other drivers who were in front of HAM. VET doesn’t have the car to win the rest of the races, so in my opinion the WDC fight is pretty much over now… unless HAM is hit by a DNF. The WCC fight was over long time ago anyway.

      Thumbs up for HAM and Mercedes, now he deserves to win the WDC. Or… VET doesn’t deserve to win the WDC anymore after Baku and Singapore. Maybe now it’s time to give VET another 3 penalty points and award him that race ban earned in Baku, in order to clear this season of any suspicious decisions. Also, Mercedes obviously has the strongest car, even if it’s marginally better. But, obviously best car overall. For example, RBR and their drivers were praising their performances after Quali and said they’re good enough to win… only to be easily beaten by a slower car! RIC had no chance against HAM all race long, but he was lucky enough to have BOT far behind in the early phase of the race, otherwise could have been a Mercedes 1-2.

      Really shame what happened to Hulk, strong performance… but just another DNF in the end.

      1. And if Hamilton retires, Bottas would probably take the win and therefore points from Vettel.

      2. @mg1982 I think Red Bull is a bit better than Mercedes in this race, its just Hamilton is truly in another league mode. We know Bottas is above average F1 driver, yet he outpaced by 2 seconds from his teammate in wet and 0.5s after last safety car when the track can be said truly dried. Hamilton made Bottas looks bad, but on second thought I think he shown consistent pace relative to Red Bull from practice to qualifying, Hamilton just pull out that performance out of nowhere.

        On Hulkenberg, he did a great lap in qualifying but the race pace is.. just average. His start is not good. Alonso, Raikkonen, Verstappen, and Hamilton did much better start and only Hamilton get out of turn 1 unscathed, so that works for him I guess. I don’t know how long he has a problem in that car, but the lap times is not something special.

      3. I generally agree with your comments- except you forget that today it was changing conditions. Hamilton territory.

    8. I want some of whatever Ferrari are smoking.

      1. The smoke they are breathing is coming from the mercedes exhaust.

      2. It’s in their interest not to look like they are at fault.

        1. Do not think so. They obviously look bad now. Admitting a mistake = 50% forgiven.

        2. @mbr-9

          People respect drivers holding their hands up to errors. Vettel can hardly do that now Ferrari have jumped the gun.

          1. Vettel has never admitted to making a mistake. I remember Istanbul 2010 where he had the audacity to suggest Webber was at fault for their coming together, this year’s incident at Baku was another example. My philosophy is be a man, hold up your hand and claim responsibilty, from doing this you gain a lot more respect from fans and other driver’s – although I would also assert that he is not alone in acting like this, Grosjean and Perez spring to mind.

            1. It’s not only GRO and PER, it’s all of them. It’s really hard to remember when a driver/team admitted he/they did something wrong. In 99% of the cases, it’s somebody/something else to blame.

    9. You never know, but this is where Ferrari lost the championship. THe next few races are Mercedes tracks, so this was a great chance with Hamilton down in 5th.

      But that’s okay, it’s part of the game… to blame an innocent guy so blatantly is “very Ferrari”. Learn from your errors, and you’ll be better… I hope they lose both championships.

      1. Losing the championship in Singapore? Some things never change.

        1. exactly what I was thinking… MAS says ‘hi’!

      2. Shows again how merciless and unsportive Ferrari is. Marchionne and Arrivibene are leading a soulless operation, and now they lost the championship and any integrity that may have been left.

      3. to blame an innocent guy so blatantly is “very Ferrari”

        @fer-no65 There are traditions that need to be uphold at Ferrari afterall.

    10. It was not Verstappens fault!

    11. After Ferrari’s statement on Vettel’s Baku incident, I am not surprised with their unrealistic take on the incident.
      Gone are the days of radio coverage and commentators taking liberties. So many camera angles, just too stupid to tell lies.

    12. Vettel had the perfect chance to maximise on Mercs worst track today and threw it away in the first 400 metres. If he loses the championship now he’ll know exactly why. This and Baku show that Vettel has a lot of work to do on his mental strength.

      1. GtisBetter (@passingisoverrated)
        17th September 2017, 15:19

        i’d say this was not a bad move. This happens all he time at starts. You try to block nr2. He was just unlucky Kimi had a great start and he couldn’t see him until it was too late.

        1. You can’t block a driver when you’ve made a bad start and the other driver is alongside you. All you can do is drive into them, which is ultimately what Vettel was doing. Brain fade from Vettel.

    13. I said in live coverage that it was 60% on VET, 40% on VER and 0 on RAI.

      With a few other viewings, it’s probably closer to 80% VET, 20% VER and 0% RAI (who was basically taken out because he had a much better start than everyone).

      1. Then you can blame RAI as well. If he wasn’t there they wouldn’t have collided.

        1. Yes. He shouldn’t even start the race. You lost it completely.

      2. My view is quite in tune with yours. I’d just give some responsibility to Kimi because he had some room to his left (although he was on the most predictable and stable trajectory of them all).

      3. I’m not too much of a fan of Verstappen, but there is no way you can blame him. He actually slowed down and didn’t suffer any damage until Kimi’s car hit his again.

      4. Kimi’s front of rear right hit Max’s rear of front left. Technically, Kimi hit Max which is also obvious on Max’s onboard.

        1. Yep… & Kimi only hit Max (and the damage was so severe) because Max backed out of it to avoid Making contact with Vettel. Max was slowing down while Kimi was rocketing past. If you watch Verstappen’s on board (really handy if you can watch it slow mo on YouTube) you’ll notice he gets a marginally better start than Vettel. You can clearly see him gaining incrementally on the up-shifts through 2nd and 3rd gear. Watching the spray off Vettel’s left rear clearly shows that Max at least had his front right alongside. If Max didn’t back out of it, Vettel would have hit Max similar to the way Kimi hit him & the accident would’ve been worse I think, with both Ferrari cars spearing head first into each other after knocking their respective rear corners off. I call it a racing incident, but if forced to appropriate blame, Vettel bears the lion’s share. Pretty easy choice: he initiated the close quarters, driving all the way across the track to do so. Max moved to avoid him, ran out of room between both red cars & backed off. Kimi was very unlucky… I find it hard to say he did anything “wrong”, but technically he the had room to avoid contact with Verstappen if he was perhaps a bit more spatially aware. Both Ferrari drivers seemed to be only concerned with the Red Bull car & forgot about each other.

        2. @ Mike: you’re right, Kimi hit VER and not the other way around. Kimi was on full acceleration, while VER already lifted and lost speed.

    14. Since when is moving slowly towards the inside taking a risk, it’s Max who can’t take a bloody position drop without driving like he owns the place. When you’re swamped by red cars left and right; you don’t go right; you brake! Once ahead, moving in on the start is what EVERYONE does, except the guy behind yields instead of crashing. Max’s arrogance will take him nowhere, nowhere.

      1. GtisBetter (@passingisoverrated)
        17th September 2017, 15:20

        no one brakes on a straight after a start. You would be never be in f1 if you did

        1. No one? Really, you just turn into someone? Good answer.

          1. GtisBetter (@passingisoverrated)
            17th September 2017, 15:30

            If you don’t know anything about racing, why are you here?

            1. Can you argue or just say “brakes are not used on straight”. I know more than you that’s for sure. Pick any start you want, there’s always a driver that get’s swamped by cars left an right, and all clever drivers yield – get off the throttle, touch the brakes, catastrophe averted. Or you can hit another car… Take your pick, as you know it all.

            2. GtisBetter (@passingisoverrated)
              17th September 2017, 15:50

              @makana i doubt you know more then me, but i have looked at your history and you are quit an irrational guy. so i wont waste my time. The tweet has been removed as ferrari knows they were wrong too.

            3. GtisBetter (@passingisoverrated)
              17th September 2017, 15:50

              @makana i doubt you know more then me, but i have looked at your history and you are quit an irrational guy. so i wont waste my time. The tweet has been removed as ferrari knows they were wrong too.

            4. Sure KGB Know-it-all man.

        2. If you know about racing, you gotta know the race is not won after the first corner. Heck! Its not even at the first corner. You do what ever it takes to protect yourself even if it means using your damn brakes on the straight. As @makana mentioned, max is an arrogant driver. He does not know when to concede!

          1. umm, are you new? cuz actually in F1, especially tracks where you can’t pass, Turn 1 after the start can more or less be it, then its just a tiresome procession to the end. All Singapore GPs have been won from pole I believe except of course the inaugural one and when HAM’s gearbox failed him early in 2012 when he was comfortably in the lead. and now 2017 when the top 3 were taken out. In 2010, Alonso held back a superior Red Bull in Vettel’s hands all race long. So yeah, I think you want to be first into Turn 1.

            Lastly, I’m disgusted by Verstappen’s over-aggressive blocking whenever hes about to get passed. He was the meat in a Ferrari sandwich, VET and RAI are a crash duo

            1. No i am not. I get your fair point about tracks that have limited passing chances but you have to know when to concede your position and fight the race strategically, sensible racing ring a bell?. I would prefer watching a race where drivers duke it out on track rather than in the pits but max is a sore loser. When his boat is sinking, he does whatever it takes to drag everyone around him down.
              He is a confident guy, good in the wet and probably had a better race setup than ferrari. I think that he would have finished ahead of the ferraris even if he was third after the first corner but his arrogance cost him the race win and ultimately the biggest losers are ferrari.

      2. Why would braking be the right thing to do specifically when swamped by red cars?

        1. Because they are on your left and right! You yield! It’s very very simply really.

          1. And what if cars are, I don’t know… pink?

            1. Then you can crash into them and place the blame on both of them… without any backlash from viewers or fans

      3. Wow. Just wow. Get help.

        1. Get an argument buddy; what is your argument? That race leaders should not move in on the driver behind? Get logic.

          1. If the “RED CARS” were really leaders, they would’ve crashed into themselves.
            And I’m saying that, but … RAI is absolutely not to blame here.

            1. Kimi is not to blame, who said he was to blame. Max needs to stop being a sore loser! He is second on the grid, did not get past Seb and got passed by Kimi… LET IT GO – no he swerves frantically right… brilliant. Kimi had his best start of the year, to get punished for it.

          2. Not to the point of a crash. In a straight you have to leave room for the other cars, no matter if you’re in front or not.

            SEB wasn’t aware of what was going on but he knew how starts are and he make an awful strategic for his championship, both losing a win and offering a 5th place HAM the win.

            1. Seb is to blame for one thing: for considering Max a responsible driver. He surely should not treat him that way and was naive there.

            2. See…
              VET tried to do (to VER) what HAM did (to STR).
              Only RAI had an absolutely terrific start (whereas OCO’s was just great), was much closer to a wall on a track with less space, and that was a wet weather race.

            3. See…
              VET tried to do (to VER) what HAM did (to STR).
              Only RAI had an absolutely terrific start (whereas OCO’s was just great), was much closer to a wall on a track with less space, and that was a wet weather race.
              EDIT : I’d add that VER isn’t STR.

          3. Michael v Rubens, Hungary 2010. Sure, it’s not a start incident, but the details of the move then still stand in this discussion. It’s a leading car, considering it is in front of the other one, moving to the side on the straight and leaving no room for the car that is closing in on it. Did Rubens brake then because he was between a leader and the wall? No, because that’s not what a racer does. Did Michael get a penalty for it? Yes, because he forced a driver towards a part of the track that had no space for an F1 car. Same concept here. Vettel might get away with it because it was a starting incident and he couldn’t see the exact position of Raikkonen, but that doesn’t mean it’s not his fault and that he shouldn’t have been more careful, especially considering he was the only one that had something to lose from that.

          4. @makana

            Why don’t you keep your bias against Verstappen and undying love for Vettel out of your opinions

            Take a look at actual facts and footage instead – https://media.giphy.com/media/Eyr8R1dAItpPG/giphy.gif

            If you still think Verstappen is at fault, you know nothing about racing

            1. @todofd thank you for that GIF, and you really seem to know nothing about racing when you see that Seb got IN FRONT of Max, aggressively, and did NOT hit him. Max kept his mighty foot on the throttle and went into Kimi. Aggressive by Seb yes, did he hit anyone NO! Who crashed first? Max decided he can make it between the red cars! Max does not know how to ever let go? He’s done it all season and everyone says he’s “feisty”.
              I do actually blame Seb for thinking Max is a rational driver when put under pressure; this was his fatal mistake today, and he’ll pay for it with the championship. Too much respect for Max has cost Seb a LOT.

      4. I get your point, but I do not think it’s the correct view here. Simply because VER did nothing unusual, while VET almost went to the extreme move. The track is quite wide there (at least 6 2-meters wide cars fit side by side on the start/finish line), still VET went from right side (exterior) to the left side (interior) of the track in oder to squeeze VER. When the collision happened, all 3 cars where placed in the left side of the track, the right side of the track being completely empty. VET simply moved too many meters from right to left to be a fair-play move anymore. Plus, when VER noticed VET is moving so much to the left, he started to steer to the left too. But even after VET started to steer to the left too, VET still pushed VER to the left/inside. Had VET stopped immediately afte VER started to steer to the inside too, very probably nothing would have happened OR it would have been just a VER/RAI collision. So, VET simply gambled too much… and lost badly. Worst scenario for him would have been 3rd after 1st corner with RAI in the lead. Still a lot better than DNF and handing over the 1st place and win to HAM.

        1. I hear you, VET was aggressive, but he had no visibility of RAI. The one that did was VER who again, instead of avoiding a collision pushed on. When VER is aggressive, it’s a hails and adoration of his talent. When VET is aggressive, he should’ve let go! I understand what you say, in hindsight; a much better move for VET would be to not cut off VER – which he’s allowed to do legally. But hey, he did, and VER reacted as VER does; don’t care.
          I know everyone is now like VET should not take risks, and when he doesn’t everyone is like he lets it go… Hindsight is a great thing; bottom line, when VET moves he doesn’t hit anyone, when VER does, it’s mayhem.

          1. KIMI hit VER…but OK guess you know it all.

    15. Well, all I know for a fact is that there was a first corner crash and Verstappen is AGAIN involved…. at some point it’s not a coincidence anymore.

      1. are you suggesting people are going for Max intentionally?

      2. At some point, perhaps. But not this point.

      3. If you love to see Verstappen fail to finish a race, than this was another good one for you.

    16. Wonder how many races they are gonna go before they figure out these guys need some kind of mirrors.

    17. Totally Verstappen fault, he is a real danger in racing. No surprise he gets involved in every start incidents. No brains at all.

        1. Haha maybe you 2 have to get a good screen and watch the replay. All coverage shows that Vet is not slowly coming to the inside but very hard, and as Alonso would say “karma”

          1. Saw the replay, Max is a child, Championship gone.
            Seb is to blame for rely on Max to act responsibly. He took a big risk, not by driving tough, but by respecting Max too much.

      1. You 2 will be very confused when the FIA punish ferrari. Maybe read up on the rules on F1 before leaving these daft comments.

      2. And you two are really not going to enjoy F1 too much over the next 5 to maybe 10 years with the rise of the up and coming multiple WDC, Max Verstappen.

    18. This should be pretty straight forward for the Stewards: no one predominantly to blame for the collision, so no penalties.

      Raikkonen went for a gap that only closed when he was already halfway through it.
      Verstappen could have backed out if it, despite it’s probably against a racers instinct.
      Vettel could have squeezed a bit less, although he was ahead and allowed to choose to line and this squeeze happens almost every start.

      It was an unfortunate incident, nothing more.

      1. Vettel was in the lead and left a car’s width (and then some) So he’s complying with the rules.

        Meanwhile Verstappen was being overtaken by Raikkonen and since Vettel was going to leave 1 space he knew he was always going to get sandwiched. At that point, Verstappen had to lift/break to avoid contact.

        However, he didn’t and actually moved to his left and hit Raikkonen who became an innocent victim.

        So, it seems clear to me Verstappen should take the most blame here, but will probably not get penalized.

        1. -1.

          Had a look again, you should too… and, as I said, VER has 0% blame. But I changed something: now it’s 90% VET at fault and 10% RAI. VER did lift off somehow… that’s the main reason why the Ferraris managed to collide although there was at least 1 car width between them. The 2nd reason why they collided is that they were pointing at each other. Funny, it’s like VER triggered the Ferraris to hit each other. If you look carefully, before the collision VER is “more” alongside VET than he’s at the split moment before collision. And I consider it’s 10% RAI fault because he steered a little to the right too, so yeah, we can say RAI kinda steered into VER too OR squeezed VER into VET! Take it as you like. VER only chance was to brake and risk being collected by the cars behind. No matter how you see this from VER point of view, it’s like impossible to avoid a collision: danger from right side (RAI), danger from left side (VET), danger from behind (rest of the cars). Had RAI did not have the car pointed towards VET car, he would have spun to the left (into the wall) and not to the right (into VET car). It’s Ferrari blame 110%. Karma…

          1. everyone wants their own space and expects others to move over for them. Each of the moves by the Ferrari’s wasn’t wrong but that they both squeezed the same car at the same time is the problem and not the first time they’ve done so I believe. Its a racing incident and we can all complain about VER all we want (I’m not a fan of his either) but lets also recognize it all happened in a blink of an eye.

            I’m not sure if I’m correct but it seems like these guys nowadays tangle wheels a lot more than in the past. All the young guys bang wheels, I’d say maybe HAM is the last of “gentleman-ly racers” and I’m an Alonso fan so I hate that guy as well. VET is not known for his wheel-to-wheel combat skills, very often getting it wrong and only passing when his car is superior.

        2. Some sense. +1

          1. @Makana:
            why the sudden change of agressiveness towards MV all of a sudden Makana? did you read this post well? it states actually that it is NOT fault of Max Verstappen. I was under the distinct impression you had your mind made up my friend. ;)
            I can understand you saying Max is a bit of a reckless newbee, but even at Ferrari and Mercedes he is considered one of the greatest upcoming talents.. let time be the judge about him becoming one of the great or not.
            Meanwhile here in the race there is no one actually REALLY to blame… KR has best start together with FA, and MV DID leave room for KR to go, and please everyone: DO look at all the footage, there is only one conclusion.. SV defends (and is entitled to) but very aggresive, MV has nowhere to go (even braking hard to back out is dangerous on a straight at the start) tries to stay in a straight line (and no Makana, he does really NOT leave his line, please have a look from a few angles, especially from his cockpit) and gets actually hit by KR who does move VERY LITTLE but that is the tight spot he was in.. MV good not give him more room, since SV was there (ergo, he was not BEHIND as you state continuously) and then he DID try to break, saved in a responsible way his car at first only to get catapulted and stop..
            there you have it… no one really at fault, lots of opinions, all respected, but eventually SV with the most pain.
            shame for the WDC I’d say, we had high hopes for this season.. maybe… maybe… we’ll get it.
            bye all

            1. I can agree that no one is deliberately at fault. Forgive me but I believe that Max is too arrogant and he’s simply learning his way towards becoming a calculating driver with other driver’s championships. He is admitting that he’s a hazard when he advises other drivers not to take risks around him. Grand, when all he does is risk and get applause for it. Racing is about being aggressive and taking risk. Oh well, he’s young, he blamed Seb but should have at least said: I couldn’t opt out.

    19. Vettel doing his stupid Schumacher move again, glad he got his comeuppance this time.

    20. kimi and vettel touching each other is becoming more common than it should.
      and they always blame someone else.

    21. GtisBetter (@passingisoverrated)
      17th September 2017, 15:51

      Tweet has been deleted

      1. Ferrari’s tweet, I guess?

        1. GtisBetter (@passingisoverrated)
          17th September 2017, 16:01

          yeah, where they blame max

      2. Not before they defended the posting of their own tweet, stating they were factually correct! LOL.

        Their arrogance is matched only by Vettel’s. Both well suited to each other.

        Wonder what Kimi thinks right now?

    22. Vettel under pressure bottled the start and then stuck it in the wall. Business end of the championship and he does a Maldonado twice in a matter of corners! I know it’s a harsh assessment but it is the brutal truth.

      So Vettel may pick up some penalty points and who knows what other components may need changing incurring grid penalties.

      Still a long way to go yet- but in my opinion this was the moment Vettel threw away the championship.

      They say the wet sorts the boys from the men- Hamilton imperious in changing conditions again. His championship to lose now.

    23. They’ll probably call it a racing incident though, because it was a first corner incident.

      However, having watched the replays you can clearly see Verstappen steering to the left (into Kimi) while there was still a meter between him and Vettel. That wasn’t nescesarry and it was what caused Verstappen to hit Raikonnen. So yeah, this is on Max more than on Vettel I’m afraid. Raikkonen is the most innocent in any case.

      1. Yeah, VER started to steer to the left because VET was steering into him. Plus, RAI was steering to the right a little too, very probably the main reason they touched. Had RAI kept the car straight, probably no collision at all. VER could have hit the brake and risk being hit from behind. It’s a lose-lose situation for VER, how can you blame him? VET had 10 meters of empty space to the right, RAI another 2-3 meters to the right. They have no excuses, really.

    24. Regardless of whose fault is was (I believe it was Vettel’s), I would put a hefty wager that Maranello is furious with Vettel for making that move on a slippery track.
      If Vettel loses the WDC, it will be due to his screw ups at Baku and Singapore.

    25. Didnt change anything… I beg to differ. If thete was a measure of change I would hazard a guess, that change could be estimated around 25 points of said change.

    26. For me Vettel solely to blame for the turn 1 incident, aggressively and needlessly chopping across the field and taking out 3 other cars including your teammate is not the actions of a world championship drive. Vettel bottled the championship today ruining season best finishes for Verstappen and Alonso along the way. Up there with Baku for me in terms or right royal F-ups!

    27. I lost respect for Vettel a few seasons back to be honest. In his mind he never does anything wrong and trying to get him to admit the obvious would kill him!

      Wouldn’t it be refreshing if he put his ego to one side for the merest split second and put his hand up and said ‘I apologise for my contribution to that carnage’.

      Everyone is human it seems, apart from Seb.

      1. I lost respect for Vettel a few seasons back to be honest. In his mind he never does anything wrong and trying to get him to admit the obvious would kill him!

        He idoloises Schumacher… so it should come as no surprise.

    28. We move on, it doesn’t change much.

      Well aside from a 40 points swing (28 points down instead of 12 ahead if he won and HAM finished in 5th).
      So changes quite a bit. Though seeing as he was responsible, not the team, for the first corner mayhem, maybe he’s trying to play down the impact.

    29. Martin Brundles everywhere

    30. Ferrari embarrassing themselves. That was Vettel’s fault, the end.

    31. I find it funny that some are blaming Max here- do people really think he would/should lift there?
      If he did everyone would bag him for being soft and he should also join the Sky Sports guys as a commentator.

      Same for those blaming Kimi- I read a few comments on laying blame on Kimi- I got confused and had a lay down :)

      Seb was aggressive in his squeeze on Max, in his rights to move over but mustn’t have seen his team-mate. I really think a ‘racing incident’ was the correct call.

    32. The video from Verstappen’s car says it all, Vettel came from the right, Raikonnen squeezed from the left and he had nowhere to go. The beauty of it all was that the Ferrari’s took each other out and left Lewis a clear run on the right. Remember Vettel with his ‘He brake tested me’ line, when the telemetry proved otherwise? Mark Webber got it right ‘ If Ferrari are blaming this on Verstappen, they need their eyes testing!’ Fortunately Ray Ban are a Ferrari sponsor, they should be able to arrange eye tests.

    33. DESTROY THE MERCEDES AND STUPID HAMILTON

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