Three Car Teams
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I was thinking about one of di Montezemolo’s proposals: the three car team. While I doubt that it really will occur in Formula One, as it really is just a big “what if”, it’s still a fun idea to play with because the third driver would either be a rookie or pay driver in most scenarios. This is how I think a 2011 grid would look like:
1. Vettel
2. Webber
3. Ricciardo
4. Hamilton
5. Button
6. Turvey
7. Alonso
8. Massa
9. Bianchi
10. Rosberg
11. Schumacher
12. Hülkenberg
14. Heidfeld
15. Petrov
16. Grosjean
15. Barrichello
16. Maldonado
17. Bottas
18. Sutil
19. Di Resta
20. Ebrahim
21. Kobayashi
22. Pérez
23. Fisichella
24. Buemi
25. Alguersuari
26. Vergne
27. Kovalainen
28. Trulli
29. Razia
30. Liuzzi
31. Karthikeyan
32. Mun
33. Glock
34. D’Ambrosio
35. Wickens
Three cars teams would probably equal less teams on the grid, I’ll just go with 8 teams.
Red Bull:
1.Vettel
2.Webber
3.Buemi
McLaren:
4.Hamilton
5.Button
6.Kobayashi
Ferrari:
7.Alonso
8.Massa
9.Kubica/Fisichella
Mercedes:
10.Schumacher
11.Rosberg
12.Heidfeld
Renault:
14.Kovalainen
15.Petrov
16.Senna
Williams:
17.Barrichello
18.Hulkenberg
19.Maldonado
Force India:
20.Sutil
21.Liuzzi
22.Di Resta
Sauber:
23.Glock
24.Trulli
25.Perez
Someone suggested on here a while ago that 3-car teams could work by the smaller teams “renting out” one of their grid positions. If it was contingent on the third car not scoring points and it if was for good money and technical support, I wouldn’t be against it. I’ve gone for something a bit different and imagined 3-car teams came in last year instead.
Red Bull
1: Vettel
2: Webber
24: Ricciardo
McLaren
3: Hamilton
4: Button
25: Paffett
Ferrari
5: Alonso
6: Massa
26: Schumacher
Mercedes
7: Rosberg
8: Heidfeld
27: di Resta
Renault
9: Kubica (replaced by Senna)
10: Petrov
Williams
11: Barrichello
12: Maldonado
Force India
14: Sutil
15: Liuzzi
Sauber
16: Kobayashi
17: Perez
Toro Rosso
18: Buemi
19: Alguersuari
Lotus
20: Kovalainen
21: Chandhok
HRT
22: Klien
Virgin
23: Glock
– Schumacher joins Ferrari after aborted comeback in 2009
– Heidfeld joins Mercedes in 2009, di Resta is in his second season
– With the failure of USF1, the two extra slots were re-apportioned. Those continued after the failure of any new team to gain entry for 2010
– Lotus had previously rented one of their slots out to Renault, but this ended with the naming rights dispute. With Trulli retired, they brought in Chandhok
– Senna started for HRT in 2010 but was replaced by Klien three times
1. Vettel
2. Webber
3. Ricciardo
4. Hamilton
5. Button
6. Paffett
7. Alonso
8. Massa
9. Bianchi
10. Rosberg
11. Schumacher
12. Di Resta
14. Senna
15. Petrov
16. Grosjean
15. Barrichello
16. Maldonado
17. Bottas
18. Sutil
19. Liuzzi
20. Hulkenberg
21. Kobayashi
22. Pérez
23. Heidfeld
24. Buemi
25. Alguersuari
26. Vergne
27. Kovalainen
28. Trulli
29. Valsecchi
30. Chandhok
31. Karthikeyan
32. Klien
33. Glock
34. D’Ambrosio
35. Wickens
They’re test drivers for a reason. That reason partly being because with the testing ban, a test driver is likely to also be your third driver.
Apologies for double post.
Note that most of us have done something a little different: di Resta at Mercedes, Chandhok at HRT
They’re test drivers for a reason. That reason partly being because with the testing ban, a test driver is likely to also be your third driver.
That’s true – but if three-car teams were permitted, do you really think the likes of Ferrari and McLaren would settle for running their test drivers? Do you genuinely believe Red bull would opt for Riccirado when just about every driver on the grid would kill to race for them?
OK, I’ll have a go. I’m going to assume that the rule is coming in for next season, that the added competition will mean that Virgin and HRT go out of business, and that only 6 teams will choose to run a third driver. That leaves a 26 car grid
RED BULL:
1. Vettel
2. Webber
3. Kobayashi (to try and shift a few more cans in Japan)
MCLAREN
1. Hamilton
2. Button
3. Heidfeld (finally gets his chance 10 years after the infamous snub)
FERRARI
1. Alonso
2. Massa
3. Binachi
MERCEDES
1. Rosberg
2. Raikkonen
3. Barrichello (making a return to his old team to see out his career)
RENAULT
1. Kubica
2. Petrov
3. Senna
SAUBER
1. Perez
2. Gutierrez (2012’s probably a bit too early for him, but meh)
TORO ROSSO
1. Vergne
2. Ricciardo
3. Alguersuari (Red Bull money funds a third seat to keep underperforming JA on)
FORCE INDIA
1. Di Resta
2. Hulkenberg
WILLIAMS
1. Schumacher (I’m thinking outside the box here!)
2. Maldonado
LOTUS
1. Kovalainen
2. Texeira
I’m with PM, I think if third drivers were available teams would be a bit more adventurous and choose the best drivers available. Also, I am by no means saying that this is what I’d think would happen
I do agree with you that Ricciardo is more likely to wind up in a Toro Rosso than a Red Bull. There’s no way Red Bull would risk him based on his practice times in Abu Dhabi alone.
@Prisoner Monkeys – You have to also take into account that three championship contenders in the same team would be difficult to manage, and that young driver development schemes are done exactly to have a third driver together with two experienced ones. I also would put Kubica in another team, but as this is 2011 he isn’t racing. I’ll do it again, with only one test driver promoted to race seat in the same team.
Red Bull Racing-Renault
1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Mark Webber
3. Kimi Raikkonen (stand-in for Robert Kubica) (2010 – WRC)
Vodafone McLaren-Mercedes
4. Lewis Hamilton
5. Jenson Button
6. Gary Paffett (2010 – Test Driver)
Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro
7. Fernando Alonso
8. Felipe Massa
9. Nico Rosberg (2010 – Mercedes)
Mercedes GP Petronas F1 Team
10. Michael Schumacher
11. Nico Hulkenberg (2010 – Williams)
12. Paul Di Resta (2010 – DTM)
Lotus Renault GP
14. Vitaly Petrov
15. Bruno Senna (2010 – HRT)
16. Romain Grosjean (2010 – GP2)
AT&T Williams-Cosworth
15. Rubens Barrichello
16. Pastor Maldonado (2010 – GP2)
17. Nick Heidfeld (2010 – Sauber)
Force India F1 Team-Mercedes
18. Adrian Sutil
19. Vitantonio Liuzzi
20. Karun Chandhok (2010 – HRT)
Sauber F1 Team-Ferrari
21. Kamui Kobayashi
22. Sergio Pérez (2010 – GP2)
23. Jules Bianchi (2010 – GP2)
Scuderia Toro Rosso-Ferrari
24. Sebastien Buemi
25. Jaime Alguersuari
26. Daniel Ricciardo (2010 – Formula Renault 3.5)
Team Lotus-Renault
27. Heikki Kovalainen
28. Jarno Trulli
29. Luiz Razia (2010 – GP2)
Hispania Racing F1 Team-Cosworth
30. Narain Karthikeyan (2010 – Superleague Formula)
31. Sakon Yamamoto
32. Christian Klien
Marussia Virgin Racing-Cosworth
33. Timo Glock
34. Lucas Di Grassi
35. Jerome D’Ambrosio (2010 – GP2)
You have to also take into account that three championship contenders in the same team would be difficult to manage
That’s true – but if one championship-worthy team has three drivers, then all teams need three because they’ll need three to stand a chance of picking up the WCC crown.
It’s not so far-fetched as you might think PM. Let’s take Red Bull. Alonso is committed to Ferrari. Massa is, depending on opinion, either not good enough or too close to Ferrari to leave. Hamilton wouldn’t leave McLaren unless they weren’t competing consistently. Button has been vocal about team favouritism so you’d think he’d have second thoughts about going to Red Bull. How many top drivers are there left after that? Rosberg has only had a year at Mercedes, jumping ship would have looked bad for him. Kubica is injured but was committed to the Renault project anyway.
Sure, it may have made more sense to us to put even Glock in there before Ricciardo. But Red Bull are sponsoring him for a reason: they believe he could be another Hamilton or Rosberg. Hamilton almost went to Renault or Williams but Ron Dennis gave him the McLaren seat – Red Bull wouldn’t want to risk the same. So why wouldn’t he end up at Toro Rosso first? Since the end of the customer team rules, STR hasn’t exactly been a powerhouse and as we’ve seen with Button, a world champion can appear average in a bad car.
Well, here’s a possible grid:
Red Bull Racing-Renault
1. Sebastian Vettel
2. Mark Webber
3. Jaime Alguersuari
Vodafone McLaren-Mercedes
4. Lewis Hamilton
5. Jenson Button
6. Gary Paffett
Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro
7. Fernando Alonso
8. Felipe Massa
9. Valentino Rossi/Giancarlo Fisichella
Mercedes GP Petronas F1 Team
10. Michael Schumacher
11. Nico Rosberg
12. Bruno Spengler
Lotus Renault GP
14. Nick Heidfeld/Robert Kubica
15. Vitaly Petrov
16. Bruno Senna
AT&T Williams-Cosworth
15. Rubens Barrichello
16. Pastor Maldonado
17. Valtteri Bottas
Force India F1 Team-Mercedes
18. Adrian Sutil
19. Paul Di Resta
20. Nico Hülkenberg
Sauber F1 Team-Ferrari
21. Kamui Kobayashi
22. Sergio Pérez
23. Jules Bianchi
Scuderia Toro Rosso-Ferrari
24. Sebastien Buemi
25. Daniel Ricciardo
26. Jean-Eric Vergne
Team Lotus-Renault
27. Heikki Kovalainen
28. Jarno Trulli
29. Karun Chandhok
Hispania Racing F1 Team-Cosworth
30. Narain Karthikeyan
31. Vitantonio Liuzzi
32. Plamen Kralev
Marussia Virgin Racing-Cosworth
33. Timo Glock
34. Jerome D’Ambrosio
35. Sakon Yamamoto
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