Hamilton and Raikkonen’s Fuji clash - the penalty they got wrong (Video)
Lewis Hamilton made a rash mistake at the start of the Japanese Grand Prix - but did it deserve the drive-through penalty he received?
Or to put it another way, has a driver ever got a penalty for forcing another driver off the track before?
After losing the lead to Raikkonen at the start Hamilton dived down the inside of the Ferrari driver to re-pass him at turn one. He clearly out-braked himself, and locked his tyres hard, forcing Raikkonen wide and onto the tarmac run-off.
Predictably, there’s nothing written in the rules about it. Article 16.1 of the sporting regulations allows the stewards to penalise drivers for forcing each other off the track.
But we’ve seen drivers force each other off the track many times in recent races, but I’m struggling to remember an occasion when anyone has been penalised for it. Hamilton wasn’t penalised for it with Timo Glock at Monza, nor Kimi Raikkonen when he forced Hamilton off the track at Spa.
It’s hard to see how Hamilton deserved a penalty for the move. And the precedent it sets is extremely strange:
Raikkonen out-braked himself at Monaco and took another driver out (Adrian Sutil) but didn’t get a penalty. So the rules seem to state that if you force a driver off the track and out of the race, you don’t get a penalty, but if you force another driver off the track and he stays in the race, you do get a penalty.
Where is the logic in that? Once again the FIA stewards have rendered a baffling verdict that leaves themselves open to accusations of inconsistency and favouritism.
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- Japanese Grand Prix weather forecasts
- Japanese GP preview: McLaren vs Ferrari
- Japanese GP video: Toyota
- Japanese GP preview video
- 2008 Japanese GP Live Blogs
- 2008 Japanese Grand Prix predictions
- Japanese GP Free Practice 1 Live Blog
- Japanese GP Free Practice 2 Live Blog
- Japanese GP Free Practice 3 Live Blog
- Japanese GP Qualifying Live Blog
- Japanese Grand Prix Live Blog
- Lewis Hamilton on pole again at Fuji (2008 Japanese GP qualifying)
- Japanese GP: thoughts on the start
- Alonso wins as Hamilton and Massa stumble (2008 Japanese Grand Prix)
- Rate the race: Japanese Grand Prix
- Massa and Hamilton’s Fuji crash - the penalty they got right (Video)
- Hamilton and Raikkonen’s Fuji clash - the penalty they got wrong (Video)
- Japanese Grand Prix result
- Bourdais gets 25s penalty
- Championship standings after Fuji
- 2008 Japanese Grand Prix pictures
- Kimi Raikkonen out of title hunt
- 2008 Japanese GP stats and facts
- Japanese Grand Prix progress chart
- F1.com reacts to criticism of Fuji penalties by releasing new videos
- John Beamer’s F1 tech file: Fuji
It looks like both McLarens forced Raikkonen off. Hamilton started it, and Kovalainen finished it off.
But I agree Keith, when has there ever been a penalty for someone forcing another driver off?
Well ive gone and seen it all, penalty for that, and then Bam Bam skittles him of tha road, and looks like he may get a Bam Bam ticket for thinking Boudouis was a mug. think ill join the new viewers there looking for and only watch it for the crashes. Absolute Joke, bring on the clowns the circus is in town.
I think Lewis really deserves it for stupidity alone… but yes, there are no precedents for this type of incident (except of the many precedents of the FIA setting new standards when Mclaren and Ferrari are involved.
May God strike me blind I swear i,ll never spend another penny on F1
the unwritten rule just got rewritten;)
Hamilton is really cracking under pressure like last year at the same point. Raikkonen is not playing anymore championship so why overdriven to overtake him at the first corner !!! Unbelievable.
Need to be confirmed but on TV there is yellow flag indication when he is overtaking Massa.
Well, Hamilton deserved if not for forcing KImi for the amount of dumb stuff he did on this start.
The worst thing for him is that this should make the pressure over him worse.
12 months ago Kubica and Massa make a good show forcing each other out … and also this time it was first corner incident … every time it looks more and more stupid from the stewards
I’ve already proposed the theme - should McLaren continue to race? This is the only team that races against rival teams AND FIA … or rather FIA races against McLaren >:-(#)
It is just amazing to me how this blog is so biased towards Hamilton. “The penalty they got wrong”? C’mon, there isn’t a global conspiracy against Hamilton or something, just stop crying.
Both drivers, Felipe and Lewis, were not so good at the start of the race. If both had been more careful, they should’ve had better positions. But still, you gotta give credit for Felipe’s race on the second and third stint’s. Hamilton just disappeared at that time.
Never mind 12 months ago, in this race Kubica pushed Kimi off the track when they were battling for second and he didn’t get a penalty (rightly).
No way did Hamilton deserve a penalty, it was a stupid move no doubt but as others have pointed out, it happens every race in the first corner and no-one’s been punished before.
Are you guys complaining about the enforcement or the rule itself? It is in the rules that the stewards can enforce an penalty if a driver forces another driver off the track under 16.1 The stewards can then impose one of three penalties 1) drive through 2) ten second penalty or 3) drop of ten grid positions… except in last five laps
It is looking like history repeating itself with Hamilton trying too much when all he needs to do is finish in points. Kubica may be the dark horse who wins as Massa & Hamilton incur penalty after penalty in next two races
Hamilton is a PlayStation pilot. If everything goes smooth, he wins. But as soon as something goes unpredicted, he just goes mad. He threw away this race. He was pole and championship leader for God’s sake!
With Ferrari so bad this year, HAM+McLaren should have already won this, but they can’t. The problem is that probably they will not win… again. It’s sad that the F1 championship candidates are so mediocre this year.
As a F1 and motorsports fan, I am just glad we have someone that goes for the win every time whatever the cost rather than playing the percentage game and settling for points.
Kimi says that he was actually hit by each maclaren, in turn… If by “forcing off the track” the FIA actually mean “nudged off the track” then the penalty becomes a no-brainer.
It was a stupid move, so bad that he needed some fresh rubber even without any massa-related pirouette.
Also what’s the record for the amount of penalties handed out to a single driver in a season? Hamilton has had quite a few this year.
@Robert. I don’t think this post has been spawned from Lewis favouritisim, but from the FIA’s blatant inconsistancys.
What happened to Hamilton after the first turn? It seems as if he came out of the first corner in third. Then after the crash when the cameras catch up with the front runners he is back down fighting with the Ferrari’s?
All these penalties are becoming a bit tedious, James Allen is literally ‘I wonder If that warrants a look from the stewards’ at anything.
China is going to be equally as messy I feel.
Kate - good point I’ve fixed that part (I really should have remembered that after writing this!)
I’ve said many times before they should penalise drivers for pushing each other off the track but it’s never been enforced before. From Schumacher on Hakkinen at Spa, to Hamilton on Glock two races ago, there have been loads of incidents that have gone unpunished.
It’s the same old story: we can debate the rightness or wrongness of a particular rule, but it’s totally pointless until we start to see some consistency from the stewards.
I’m sure I remember a battle between Hamilton and Alonso last year where Alonso forced Hamilton off the track. Ive been on call all night so my memory is a little fuzzy. I tried trauling youtube to no avail. Anyone else remember?
They penalise Lewis for pushing Kimi off, they penalise Massa for hitting Lewis. Where is the inconsistency?
Aha!! Spa!!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zUe-HHDXkak
DC - Loads of people have pushed other drivers off the track and not got penalties - until today. There’s the inconsistency.
Also, Hamilton didn’t hit Raikkonen, whereas Massa hit Hamilton (and went off the track to do it) so we’re really talking about two very different incidents. That’s why I wrote two separate posts: Massa and Hamilton’s Fuji crash - the penalty they got right (Video)
At Spa Hamilton had no chance to overtake Kimi, he just brake too late at chicane (I was there watching very near). He made same mistake today and caused very dangerous situation, it´s not racing, it´s dangerous driving
I agree with you, he shouldn’t get a penalty here.
But Massa also, shouldn’t have got 1 for his move on turn 10
They both were as bad as eachother the whole season, only Alonso didn’t keep a cool head..
Spa 07, Alonso does a deliberate force of the track, no problem its racing, Lewis outbreaks himself drive through, Iam sick to the back teeth with F1
What struck me more than all the drive-through penalties, was the fact that Hamilton tried to win the race in the first corner by a rather silly outbraking manoeuvre, and Massa trying to keep is hopes alive a few corners later. Not World Champion-like driving, that.
I hope Kubica wins the championship, Hamilton and Massa have both made too many mistakes to deserve it.
But while he admitted his move on Raikkonen was incorrect, Hamilton was not happy that he received an equal penalty to Massa
I’m starting to doubt Ham, Rai and Mas worthiness to be called WDC. Neither of them seem to ‘well-rounded’ or consistant enough. For years Ive disliked Alonso and been a devout Hamilton fan, but I’d rather see Alonso win the title again than any of the 3 I previously mentioned! It’s making the title interesting I have to admit but it seems the title winner in ‘08 has been decided by the stewards and their decisions rather than racing on (or off! in some cases) the track.
Bizarre decision by the stewards, which I suspect was dreamt up to balance out Massa’s inevitable penalty. If they’re right about penalizing Hamilton (and it was Kova who sent him off!!) then there probably should have been another 20 or so penalities this season alone for ‘forcing a driver off track’. I mean, it’s surreal.
Bad start from Hamilton, but what happens next is stranger. After Raikkonen cuts in front of him, he possibly slows (bunching up to let Massa get closer). At the same time, Kovaleinen pulls alongside Hamilton, but (I think) eases off slightly to let Hamilton through inside, which he does. This is a split second decision and almost forced on Hamilton. If Raikkonen is slowing, he has to pull out and try to take him to ensure Massa doesn’t pass by. Kova duly gives him the space to try. Hence, I think, Hamilton’s attempt to repass Kimi is more or less forced on him.
The same can’t be said for his pass on Massa afterwards, which seemed headstrong, but he actually got past very cleanly - only for Massa to effectively take him out of the race.
He did outbrake himself, but a penalty for that was he fell 2 or 3 places - no need for the stewards. I agree with Brundle’s comment in the race… nanny state paranoia!
It certainly wasn’t intentional like Massa’s. Saying all that, Lewis needs to grow up, and start to learn how to be cool in these situations if he wants a WDC & some respect.
I’ve heard of drivers being reprimanded for forcing drivers off the track before - Michael Schumacher got a penalty for forcing Heinz-Harald Frentzen off the road in Canada 1998 - but it’s the first time I’ve seen one for a first-corner accident. That said, it was a particularly bad start. Any driver who nearly hits his team-mate, actually hits the driver in front of him and nearly hits the same driver again should probably expect official sanction. A drive-through was a reasonable way of dealing with the situation.
I grant that there are no precedents for this precise situation. But on this occasion I think a wise precedent has been set and that was something that I had almost despaired of the FIA being capable of doing.
As for previous unpenalised incidents, there is a regulation for that. Article 16.2 is the universal get-out clause for not penalising incidents that the stewards opt not to investigate. It’s an annoying rule at times, but I suppose there has to be some sort of statute of limitations in place.
Canada 1998, M Schumacher came out of the pits and forced Frentzen off, according to this http://grandprix.com/gpe/rr621.html he got a 10 second stop and go penalty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiSQP-267QA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYt8dfJrVLk
Having said that, it is obvious to me that the FIA strive to punish McLaren when they can justify it and strives to clear Ferrari when they can justify it.
edit, I see I got beaten to it, I type to slow
In no case should Hamilton and Massa receive egual penalty.
Formula 1 is a joke right now, it should be called Ferrari 1!!!
Alianora - good point about Schumacher. But a very different incident I think - Schumacher came out of the pits as if Frentzen wasn’t there and quite literally pushed him off. What Hamilton did was, I thought, more similar to what Raikkonen did to Sutil at Monaco - except he didn’t actually end Raikkonen’s race!
I can understand why Hamilton doesn’t get much sympathy for this. On top of all the usual reasons, he did make a bad mistake. But one worthy of a penalty? Definitely not in my view.
World Champion-like driving, that doesn’t mean anything, not every race can be won cleanly with a total eye for overall race result. The moves by both Hamilton and Massa showed maybe not clear thinking at the wheel but they both want to be looked upon as the best in business and therefore don’t want to be overtaken easily.
Alianora - It seems the Stewards are too eager to set precedents this year. I agree maybe more care should of been taken, but where is the line drawn between allowing drivers to race and saftey? My concern is that despite the revisions to the ‘09 cars nobody will dare to try a pass for fear of a reprimand/drive-thru. The penalty has been given and as we are aware they cannot appeal it so it all seems a bit of a moot point now.
Rob,
I doubt drivers are going to be cautious about overtaking..
If it was so, after Spa : we would have seen boring races.. drivers are willing to take the risks
Once again Lewis has screwed the pooch, apparently believing in his own invincibility. Did he deserve the penalty? Absolutely not, but he also should not have put himself in the position to be arbitrarily penalized by the Stoopids.
This does not bode well for the last two races.
As for Massa, what’s left to be said? Can’t wait for the Stoopids decision on his contact with Bourdais. The reality is it shouldn’t be penalized either way, a racing incident. No doubt there will be a sanction against Sebby of some kind.
Obviously Lewis made a hash of the 1st corner but I think to receive an equal penalty to Massa is unjust. If Lewis deserved a drive through (which was harsh) then Massa should have received a 10sec stop and go (not sure if the rules list this as punishment?).
I am a big Lewis fan but he did make the mistake and let himself down. Being behind Kimi wasn’t the end of the world as there is every chance he had the pace to win it later on in the race.
The decision to impose a penalty for Hamilton was bizarre. It’s one thing punishing someone for doing that during the race but this was the first corner. When talking about chicane cutting penalties, it was mentioned about Alonso gaining places by going off the road at the start in Singapore, but this was ignored because it was the first corner. And rightly so! With 20 cars all bombing into the same corner at roughly the same time, several cars abreast, it’s to be expected that there will be outbraking, slight nudging, running wide etc. But has there ever been a penalty for it before?
Let’s take the blinkers off and look at the 2 incidents without the prejudice of who people want to win. How those 2 incidents can be punished in the same way is utterly baffling.
Brundle had it spot on when saying that we’re getting paranoid about penalties. And that’s the fault of the FIA. I’d much rather see most incidents (first corner, Massa v Bourdais) be classified as “racing incident” without penalty, and the punishment be given to obvious punting of others off the road (Heiki v Kimi at Spa and Massa v Hamilton today). Now every little incident is being scrutinised to the finest detail to the detriment of the sport. And we can’t be far away from teams appealing for penalties claiming precedent. Let the drivers settle it on the track.
It will be interesting to see if Hamilton can throw away a third WDC in 2009
This is just surreal, Bourdais penalised, Massa gains another point.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20875.html
UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Bourdais gets 25s penalty
Well, is better to wait and see if he throw away this one. HAM still has a good advantage and the rivals (Ferrari) are not the best in consistency this year.
A 1-2 ferrari in the next two races could seal the title for Massa. Difficult to think about that; this year is a roller-coaster season for every team/driver.
I love to see Alonso putting some more emotion for the title contenders!
Being a Hamilton fan I’m sure I could be considered biased. That said reverse the incidents today, and say Massa had done what Hamilton did at the start, I would NOT have deemed a penalty fair. On the other hand if Hamilton had done what Massa did, then I would have thought Hamilton well deserving of a penalty.
IMHO the stewards only penalised Hamilton to ‘even thuings up’ as they had to penalise Massa.
F1 stinks at the moment. IMHO rotten to the core. Give the title to Ferrari, just get it over and done with.
This website is becoming H1fanatic instead of F1fanatic. After every race I see you crying on this blog. Hamilton is making stupid mistakes like last year.
Today, as we saw Alonso let Hamilton pass (while Hamilton was lapping) because it makes no sense to hold Hamilton. If it was Hamilton, he was going to fight. Hamilton has no brain in his head and has not learned lesson from last year.
Hamilton has nothing to do with Kimi now. He needs to focus on his own game and just keep ahead of Massa. But he will ruin his own chances of winning championship.
Oh, and Massa gains another point due to Bourdais penalty!!! Clearly this is laughable. Shocking decision. Ferrari tinted glasses again.
Also look at Hamilton and Alonso in Spa 2007–Alonso pushed Hamilton off the track (and onto asphalt runoff) right after Turn 1, and it was even more blatant since Alonso was fully in control of the car–no locked wheels. Today had two terrible decisions by stewards.
Rahzam - I call them like I see them. I’ve explained above why I think it wasn’t a penalty. If you don’t think so then tell me why you don’t agree. But don’t give me this ‘you’re just biased’ nonsense, give me hard facts and a proper argument.
Keith, you say HAM made a mistake but didn’t deserver a drive-through penalty. So what penalty would you have been OK with then?
Or is it ok for title competitors to make “mistakes,” take their competitor out of the running and carry on?
RAI was mathematically still in the running, in fact given that RAI lead the race at the start, we would potentially have had an identical situation to last year going into the last two races.
Mistakes that impact other drivers have to be penalized, surely. The question is what penalty applies that’s below a drive-through in terms of impact to the mistakee?
Keith
I am regular reader of this blog. And I see these types of comments after almost every race. I like to be F1fanatic instead of H1fanatic. It is really boring to read these types of comments after every race.
There is no use to argue with you. I will say something and you will write something. I just want F1fanatic type of things.
What about the pass of Massa to Webber????????
He passed him using the pitlane!!!!NO PENALTY??
What about Bourdais??Where he was wrong, He was punished just because massa is unable to overtake…
And of course You can’t punish someone for agrressive driving.
In china stewards will punish Hamilton for being too silvery…
The penalty seemed fair enough to me - sure, he didn’t hit anyone but that was purely by luck rather than judgement. He could have caused a major pile-up through his rashness.
Until the Bourdais penalty came through, I was thinking the stewards had done a good job this race.
There was no big accident in first corner only because Kime is fair and clean driver. If he would be guy like Hamilton or Schumacher he could have knocked out both McLarens, and Massa would have been on lead after 1st corner. Hamilton knew that he had no chance to stay on track, he made it on purpose and that´s penalty was right. First time I heard he agreed that he made mistake, only what he don’t agree is that they got same penalty with Massa.
Penalty is right if driver makes dangerous movement on purpose.
Navs - no penalty. Just like Raikkonen and Sutil at Monaco, it was a racing incident.
Rahzam - “I will say something and you will write something.” Yes, it’s called having a discussion. If you just want a site where you can slag off people who don’t agree with you there are plenty of those already.
Eddie Irvine - Massa did nothing illegal at all by using the pit lane exit. It’s 100% legal.
It’s a fact that the controversial decisions this season have involved Hamilton, and just because people disagree with the stewards decision doesn’t mean it’s because they’re blinkered toward one driver or the other. Especially this site, where there have been reasoned arguments backing up any position taken. All that’s come back today arguing for Hamilton’s penalty is that he was stupid, rash and didn’t need to race Raikkonen. That’s irrelevant. The question is, was Hamilton’s move at the start worthy of penalty, irregardless of whether he needed to make the move or not.
Also, having watched it again a few times, how was it not Kova who was penalised? Not that I think he should be either, but it’s him who nudged Kimi off the track is it not?
Keith, this is for sure you; You can’t use the pitlane
(Alonso was penalised -10.000$- in Valencia for this in practice and warned that a severe punishment will come if he reapete this in the race.)
What if someone was going out of the pits ?…We would experience a big crash
Keith, Hamilton had control of championship and He can avoid these types of accidents and penalties. He just needs to use his brain if he has little bit in his head.
Otherwise he and H1Fanatic fans both will be crying about these penalties after every race.
Keith,
ah we’re back to talking about precedents. Fair enough. I for one believe the rules should stick even if the stewards made a different decision earlier. But I will grant that it is strange that they’re being sticklers for the rules at these specific incidents and not at others. If that is your point, then I agree with you.
But looking at this incident on its own merits, I would call for some penalty or the other. If there was contact, it would definitely reinforce my position.
Regarding RAI and Sutil: RAI didn’t gain a racing advantage from his mistake. HAM made a mistake and gained a racing advantage. I don’t see how the two can be compared?
@Gusto and @MrPippy
Please check what happened on Spa 2007 before start talking nonsense.
In Spa Alonso was ahead of Hamilton. Now compare it with what happened today.
F1fanatic mutating to H1fanatic? Despite Keith efforts, some users try to make it happen.
Maybe drivers who forced others off the track and caused serious result like this race will get a penalty.
Getting a penalty for outbraking yourself is laughter!
And the stewards should have judged anyway that massa hitting lewis was a good enough punishment!
What a load of tosh! Lewis certainly overcooked it into turn 1 and paid the price at the next corner, but he gave Kimi plenty of room - Kimi tucked in behind Lewis. It was Heikki who “pushed” Kimi off the track. I think if you are going to comment about this, you should make sure you are clear about where the cars were at the time of the incident.
And Bourdais? Please…. this is beyond a joke.
This is so ***** BENT. Outside of the other (valid) debate about other cars that have forced each other off the track (where was Kimi’s penalty at Spa 08 for doing just that! All the focus was on the “cut” chicane but the Ferarri forced Lewis off!!), I have just watched the replay about a dozen times.
Objectively, while it is clear that Lewis’ locking up prevented Kimi from taking the normal racing line, it is also CLEAR AS DAY that he did not “force” Kimi off the track.
Seriously.
Watch it again in slow-motion and you’ll see that while pushed wide, it was arguably Kovi that finished off Raikonnen, not Lewis. That’s a statement of fact. Anyone who says anything else is lying, either to us or to themselves.
I did think that myself on re-watching the video, but I’m not sure. As with the Massa/Bourdais incident, the low camera angle at turn one makes it a bit hard to tell. Would be good to see the onboard camera views.
Hi Keith,
Wouldn’t it be great if BernieTV released on-board footage from every camera-carrying car at the end of each race? As in a full video stream of the full race. I’m sure future “interactive” services will get that far in a few years (if the sport lasts that long!)
Incidentally (if you excuse the pun) here is a good image I’ve borrowed from the PlanetF1 thread
http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff189/dew1e/fuji.jpg
Says it all IMO.
Pope - thanks for the pic. The thing I can’t tell for sure from it is whether Raikkonen is already heading off the track at that point because of Hamilton’s move. If not then it’s an even poorer decision than I thought in the first place.
The_pope - I think your right, Ive been watching it a few times since and seems like the penalty is debatable, but the wrong car appears to have been picked for the punishment.
Kov should get a 10sec stop/go penalty and Massa too for hitting Hamilton plus a drive through hor hitting Bourdais.
Hamilton’s move endangered the whole field and such extreme foolhardiness had to be penalised…
Sorry guys but this could have been truly awful if Kimi and others not got out of the way, and had Lewis gained from it that would have been very very wrong….
If you watch the replay Kovalainen was the one who forces Kimi wide and he should therefore get the penalty. But of course it’s the FIA trying to massage the results to get a close finish yet again, which is why Bourdais got his nonsensical penalty.
Having just got some sleep and having played the video a few times back that looks another very flimsy penalty.I know the stewards have access to other camera angles and telemetry but what Hamilton did , although foolhardy isn’t enough to gain a penalty.
Same thing as in Spa - there seems to be no benefit of the doubt here and this is why there is a perception that Lewis is being penalised whenever it’s possible , hence the “Ferrari International Assistance” stuff going round.This lot of cronies aren’t helping themselves at best to say the least.
OK, so here is an honest question: can someone provide any reason why the stewards shouldn’t explain their actions whenever they apply a penalty? I mean, are they afraid if they present “evidence” that their decision would be further questioned?
I can only assume there is a good reason that escapes me as to why we have to be kept in the dark. Let’s get some full-time pro-stewards and have the Head Steward available for questions from the press at the end of the race!
Hell, I’d LOVE if we had fly-on-the-wall cameras in the Stewards’ box and have them all mic’ed up. How’s that for transparency, Mr Mosley?
OK true, so I don’t think we get that level of accountability / transparency in other sports where there are TV-replay judges (like cricket / rugby etc) but since these guys have a rulebook and replays, why aren’t the public privvy to every available angle?
For the record, while I agree that Lewis’ move was “ill-advised” I dispute the fact it was *dangerous*. Too many people are saying “but what if…” but it’s not about What If, it’s about What Was.
francois, don’t forget the Bourdais incident. He suggested in an interview that maybe he should roll out the red carpet the next time? That is exactly what FIA’s has been busy with: rolling out the red carpet for the red team. I wonder how FIA can be that amazingly consistent in their inconsistency of interpreting or making rules in favor of one team while applying the same set of written and unwritten rules disfavoring others. Well some say it is totally random, as if these little Ferrari miracles just keeps on “happening”. Today’s result: FIA corruption vs Ferrari incompetence 2:1, thereby yielding another undeserved point to Felipe.
Btw Hamilton drove like an idiot, not like a crook.
I think the second camera angle on the above video, from the inside of the corner, makes it a bit clearer that although Hamilton held Raikkonen wide, Kovalainen also went too deep into the first corner and in doing so prevented Raikkonen from staying on the track.
To me, this still adds up to ‘racing incident’ and certainly not the sort of thing the stewards should be getting involved in. The fact they punished Hamilton and didn’t so much as investigate Kovalainen is strange.
As ever, they’ve given no reasoning for the penalty, and the teams will not be allowed to appeal (not that the penalty could be reversed anyway). I don’t see how anyone can be satisfied with such an inconsistent, arbitrary and unaccountable means of dispensing justice.
screen capture from f1.com live timing commentary:
http://i.f-e-n.net:6666/3/aac42c2b566f5770094f9cce811ef33a.png
I agree with PJH. McLaren have to do it cleaner and better than anyone to win this. The Max and Bernie show and money is all that this sport is becoming. Makes us lot the mugs for spending so much following this ’sport’.
Keith: I don’t know if you have the time but you are certainly the one with the expertise to compile a few articles of the arbitrary decisions that has been going on for god know how long. Don’t draw any conclusion, just put the cases there and everybody can believe what they want to believe and we could have a fair discussion. I am afraid on your last sentence that a lot of people are pretty satisfied as long as the decisions go their way.
About Kova, was he out already when the investigation was announced?
dear keith, i think that there is consistency from the stewards, becouse they penalised , in this race , hamilton , but also hamilton. if hamilton did what raikonen did (backing off) he would maby have a race with points. sorry for my bad english.
i think a good way to resolve all of these dodgey steward decisions is for the stewards to veiw a screen with all the cars the same colour so they cannot tell whether the car is a ferari or a mclaren etc. this would make the stewards decision a lot fairer and they will not be biased toward any side as they don’t know which car is which.
hamilton but also massa
srry
Tom - easy tiger. I agree generally but careful old chum.
The FIA has made a real mess of things.
First corner incidents, (START OF RACE), have never, from my entire memory of racing, attracted a penalty. Hamilton didn’t hit Kimi, it was Heikki who touched with Kimi, though I admit its Lewis who pushed Kimi wide.
Forcing a driver to go wide, when you are fully side by side by side with him, has never been considered a transgression.
Massa in his incident with Lewis, clearly drove off track and was always on the losing end of that move. His was a clear penalty similar to what Heikki was given at Spa.
Massa didn’t use the pitlate to over take, He used the run off between the pit wall and the inner white line of the race track, which appear to be outside the race track.. and he had both wheels in there.
Massa - Bourdais incident, well draw your own conclusions.
Those who complain of bias on this site, need to question their own prejudice. This articles question the stewards actions, and inactions. The fact that certain drivers we may like or dislike happen to be the subjects of these penalties, is just besides the point. The issues here are about the penalties not the drivers.
Take you back to monaco. Kimi’s race crew committed an infringement at the beginning of the grand prix, before the race had even commenced. The FIA appointed race stewards were aware, yet they allowed Kimi to drive well into the race before calling him to serve his penalty. By that time he had established enough of a gap to come back out still capable of scoring healthy points. The fact that events later overshadowed that shortcoming of the stewards doesn’t in any way absolve the stewards of questionable conduct.
Emotions run high