Hamilton and Raikkonen’s Fuji clash - the penalty they got wrong (Video)
Lewis Hamilton made a rash mistake at the start of the Japanese Grand Prix - but did it deserve the drive-through penalty he received?
Or to put it another way, has a driver ever got a penalty for forcing another driver off the track before?
After losing the lead to Raikkonen at the start Hamilton dived down the inside of the Ferrari driver to re-pass him at turn one. He clearly out-braked himself, and locked his tyres hard, forcing Raikkonen wide and onto the tarmac run-off.
Predictably, there’s nothing written in the rules about it. Article 16.1 of the sporting regulations allows the stewards to penalise drivers for forcing each other off the track.
But we’ve seen drivers force each other off the track many times in recent races, but I’m struggling to remember an occasion when anyone has been penalised for it. Hamilton wasn’t penalised for it with Timo Glock at Monza, nor Kimi Raikkonen when he forced Hamilton off the track at Spa.
It’s hard to see how Hamilton deserved a penalty for the move. And the precedent it sets is extremely strange:
Raikkonen out-braked himself at Monaco and took another driver out (Adrian Sutil) but didn’t get a penalty. So the rules seem to state that if you force a driver off the track and out of the race, you don’t get a penalty, but if you force another driver off the track and he stays in the race, you do get a penalty.
Where is the logic in that? Once again the FIA stewards have rendered a baffling verdict that leaves themselves open to accusations of inconsistency and favouritism.
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It looks like both McLarens forced Raikkonen off. Hamilton started it, and Kovalainen finished it off.
But I agree Keith, when has there ever been a penalty for someone forcing another driver off?
Well ive gone and seen it all, penalty for that, and then Bam Bam skittles him of tha road, and looks like he may get a Bam Bam ticket for thinking Boudouis was a mug. think ill join the new viewers there looking for and only watch it for the crashes. Absolute Joke, bring on the clowns the circus is in town.
I think Lewis really deserves it for stupidity alone… but yes, there are no precedents for this type of incident (except of the many precedents of the FIA setting new standards when Mclaren and Ferrari are involved.
May God strike me blind I swear i,ll never spend another penny on F1
the unwritten rule just got rewritten;)
Hamilton is really cracking under pressure like last year at the same point. Raikkonen is not playing anymore championship so why overdriven to overtake him at the first corner !!! Unbelievable.
Need to be confirmed but on TV there is yellow flag indication when he is overtaking Massa.
Well, Hamilton deserved if not for forcing KImi for the amount of dumb stuff he did on this start.
The worst thing for him is that this should make the pressure over him worse.
12 months ago Kubica and Massa make a good show forcing each other out … and also this time it was first corner incident … every time it looks more and more stupid from the stewards
I’ve already proposed the theme - should McLaren continue to race? This is the only team that races against rival teams AND FIA … or rather FIA races against McLaren >:-(#)
It is just amazing to me how this blog is so biased towards Hamilton. “The penalty they got wrong”? C’mon, there isn’t a global conspiracy against Hamilton or something, just stop crying.
Both drivers, Felipe and Lewis, were not so good at the start of the race. If both had been more careful, they should’ve had better positions. But still, you gotta give credit for Felipe’s race on the second and third stint’s. Hamilton just disappeared at that time.
Never mind 12 months ago, in this race Kubica pushed Kimi off the track when they were battling for second and he didn’t get a penalty (rightly).
No way did Hamilton deserve a penalty, it was a stupid move no doubt but as others have pointed out, it happens every race in the first corner and no-one’s been punished before.
Are you guys complaining about the enforcement or the rule itself? It is in the rules that the stewards can enforce an penalty if a driver forces another driver off the track under 16.1 The stewards can then impose one of three penalties 1) drive through 2) ten second penalty or 3) drop of ten grid positions… except in last five laps
It is looking like history repeating itself with Hamilton trying too much when all he needs to do is finish in points. Kubica may be the dark horse who wins as Massa & Hamilton incur penalty after penalty in next two races
Hamilton is a PlayStation pilot. If everything goes smooth, he wins. But as soon as something goes unpredicted, he just goes mad. He threw away this race. He was pole and championship leader for God’s sake!
With Ferrari so bad this year, HAM+McLaren should have already won this, but they can’t. The problem is that probably they will not win… again. It’s sad that the F1 championship candidates are so mediocre this year.
As a F1 and motorsports fan, I am just glad we have someone that goes for the win every time whatever the cost rather than playing the percentage game and settling for points.
Kimi says that he was actually hit by each maclaren, in turn… If by “forcing off the track” the FIA actually mean “nudged off the track” then the penalty becomes a no-brainer.
It was a stupid move, so bad that he needed some fresh rubber even without any massa-related pirouette.
Also what’s the record for the amount of penalties handed out to a single driver in a season? Hamilton has had quite a few this year.
@Robert. I don’t think this post has been spawned from Lewis favouritisim, but from the FIA’s blatant inconsistancys.
What happened to Hamilton after the first turn? It seems as if he came out of the first corner in third. Then after the crash when the cameras catch up with the front runners he is back down fighting with the Ferrari’s?
All these penalties are becoming a bit tedious, James Allen is literally ‘I wonder If that warrants a look from the stewards’ at anything.
China is going to be equally as messy I feel.
Kate - good point I’ve fixed that part (I really should have remembered that after writing this!)
I’ve said many times before they should penalise drivers for pushing each other off the track but it’s never been enforced before. From Schumacher on Hakkinen at Spa, to Hamilton on Glock two races ago, there have been loads of incidents that have gone unpunished.
It’s the same old story: we can debate the rightness or wrongness of a particular rule, but it’s totally pointless until we start to see some consistency from the stewards.
I’m sure I remember a battle between Hamilton and Alonso last year where Alonso forced Hamilton off the track. Ive been on call all night so my memory is a little fuzzy. I tried trauling youtube to no avail. Anyone else remember?
They penalise Lewis for pushing Kimi off, they penalise Massa for hitting Lewis. Where is the inconsistency?
Aha!! Spa!!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zUe-HHDXkak
DC - Loads of people have pushed other drivers off the track and not got penalties - until today. There’s the inconsistency.
Also, Hamilton didn’t hit Raikkonen, whereas Massa hit Hamilton (and went off the track to do it) so we’re really talking about two very different incidents. That’s why I wrote two separate posts: Massa and Hamilton’s Fuji crash - the penalty they got right (Video)
At Spa Hamilton had no chance to overtake Kimi, he just brake too late at chicane (I was there watching very near). He made same mistake today and caused very dangerous situation, it´s not racing, it´s dangerous driving
I agree with you, he shouldn’t get a penalty here.
But Massa also, shouldn’t have got 1 for his move on turn 10
They both were as bad as eachother the whole season, only Alonso didn’t keep a cool head..
Spa 07, Alonso does a deliberate force of the track, no problem its racing, Lewis outbreaks himself drive through, Iam sick to the back teeth with F1
What struck me more than all the drive-through penalties, was the fact that Hamilton tried to win the race in the first corner by a rather silly outbraking manoeuvre, and Massa trying to keep is hopes alive a few corners later. Not World Champion-like driving, that.
I hope Kubica wins the championship, Hamilton and Massa have both made too many mistakes to deserve it.
But while he admitted his move on Raikkonen was incorrect, Hamilton was not happy that he received an equal penalty to Massa
I’m starting to doubt Ham, Rai and Mas worthiness to be called WDC. Neither of them seem to ‘well-rounded’ or consistant enough. For years Ive disliked Alonso and been a devout Hamilton fan, but I’d rather see Alonso win the title again than any of the 3 I previously mentioned! It’s making the title interesting I have to admit but it seems the title winner in ‘08 has been decided by the stewards and their decisions rather than racing on (or off! in some cases) the track.
Bizarre decision by the stewards, which I suspect was dreamt up to balance out Massa’s inevitable penalty. If they’re right about penalizing Hamilton (and it was Kova who sent him off!!) then there probably should have been another 20 or so penalities this season alone for ‘forcing a driver off track’. I mean, it’s surreal.
Bad start from Hamilton, but what happens next is stranger. After Raikkonen cuts in front of him, he possibly slows (bunching up to let Massa get closer). At the same time, Kovaleinen pulls alongside Hamilton, but (I think) eases off slightly to let Hamilton through inside, which he does. This is a split second decision and almost forced on Hamilton. If Raikkonen is slowing, he has to pull out and try to take him to ensure Massa doesn’t pass by. Kova duly gives him the space to try. Hence, I think, Hamilton’s attempt to repass Kimi is more or less forced on him.
The same can’t be said for his pass on Massa afterwards, which seemed headstrong, but he actually got past very cleanly - only for Massa to effectively take him out of the race.
He did outbrake himself, but a penalty for that was he fell 2 or 3 places - no need for the stewards. I agree with Brundle’s comment in the race… nanny state paranoia!
It certainly wasn’t intentional like Massa’s. Saying all that, Lewis needs to grow up, and start to learn how to be cool in these situations if he wants a WDC & some respect.
I’ve heard of drivers being reprimanded for forcing drivers off the track before - Michael Schumacher got a penalty for forcing Heinz-Harald Frentzen off the road in Canada 1998 - but it’s the first time I’ve seen one for a first-corner accident. That said, it was a particularly bad start. Any driver who nearly hits his team-mate, actually hits the driver in front of him and nearly hits the same driver again should probably expect official sanction. A drive-through was a reasonable way of dealing with the situation.
I grant that there are no precedents for this precise situation. But on this occasion I think a wise precedent has been set and that was something that I had almost despaired of the FIA being capable of doing.
As for previous unpenalised incidents, there is a regulation for that. Article 16.2 is the universal get-out clause for not penalising incidents that the stewards opt not to investigate. It’s an annoying rule at times, but I suppose there has to be some sort of statute of limitations in place.
Canada 1998, M Schumacher came out of the pits and forced Frentzen off, according to this http://grandprix.com/gpe/rr621.html he got a 10 second stop and go penalty.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiSQP-267QA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYt8dfJrVLk
Having said that, it is obvious to me that the FIA strive to punish McLaren when they can justify it and strives to clear Ferrari when they can justify it.
edit, I see I got beaten to it, I type to slow
In no case should Hamilton and Massa receive egual penalty.
Formula 1 is a joke right now, it should be called Ferrari 1!!!
Alianora - good point about Schumacher. But a very different incident I think - Schumacher came out of the pits as if Frentzen wasn’t there and quite literally pushed him off. What Hamilton did was, I thought, more similar to what Raikkonen did to Sutil at Monaco - except he didn’t actually end Raikkonen’s race!
I can understand why Hamilton doesn’t get much sympathy for this. On top of all the usual reasons, he did make a bad mistake. But one worthy of a penalty? Definitely not in my view.
World Champion-like driving, that doesn’t mean anything, not every race can be won cleanly with a total eye for overall race result. The moves by both Hamilton and Massa showed maybe not clear thinking at the wheel but they both want to be looked upon as the best in business and therefore don’t want to be overtaken easily.
Alianora - It seems the Stewards are too eager to set precedents this year. I agree maybe more care should of been taken, but where is the line drawn between allowing drivers to race and saftey? My concern is that despite the revisions to the ‘09 cars nobody will dare to try a pass for fear of a reprimand/drive-thru. The penalty has been given and as we are aware they cannot appeal it so it all seems a bit of a moot point now.
Rob,
I doubt drivers are going to be cautious about overtaking..
If it was so, after Spa : we would have seen boring races.. drivers are willing to take the risks
Once again Lewis has screwed the pooch, apparently believing in his own invincibility. Did he deserve the penalty? Absolutely not, but he also should not have put himself in the position to be arbitrarily penalized by the Stoopids.
This does not bode well for the last two races.
As for Massa, what’s left to be said? Can’t wait for the Stoopids decision on his contact with Bourdais. The reality is it shouldn’t be penalized either way, a racing incident. No doubt there will be a sanction against Sebby of some kind.
Obviously Lewis made a hash of the 1st corner but I think to receive an equal penalty to Massa is unjust. If Lewis deserved a drive through (which was harsh) then Massa should have received a 10sec stop and go (not sure if the rules list this as punishment?).
I am a big Lewis fan but he did make the mistake and let himself down. Being behind Kimi wasn’t the end of the world as there is every chance he had the pace to win it later on in the race.
The decision to impose a penalty for Hamilton was bizarre. It’s one thing punishing someone for doing that during the race but this was the first corner. When talking about chicane cutting penalties, it was mentioned about Alonso gaining places by going off the road at the start in Singapore, but this was ignored because it was the first corner. And rightly so! With 20 cars all bombing into the same corner at roughly the same time, several cars abreast, it’s to be expected that there will be outbraking, slight nudging, running wide etc. But has there ever been a penalty for it before?
Let’s take the blinkers off and look at the 2 incidents without the prejudice of who people want to win. How those 2 incidents can be punished in the same way is utterly baffling.
Brundle had it spot on when saying that we’re getting paranoid about penalties. And that’s the fault of the FIA. I’d much rather see most incidents (first corner, Massa v Bourdais) be classified as “racing incident” without penalty, and the punishment be given to obvious punting of others off the road (Heiki v Kimi at Spa and Massa v Hamilton today). Now every little incident is being scrutinised to the finest detail to the detriment of the sport. And we can’t be far away from teams appealing for penalties claiming precedent. Let the drivers settle it on the track.
It will be interesting to see if Hamilton can throw away a third WDC in 2009
This is just surreal, Bourdais penalised, Massa gains another point.
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20875.html
UNBELIEVABLE!!!
Bourdais gets 25s penalty
Well, is better to wait and see if he throw away this one. HAM still has a good advantage and the rivals (Ferrari) are not the best in consistency this year.
A 1-2 ferrari in the next two races could seal the title for Massa. Difficult to think about that; this year is a roller-coaster season for every team/driver.
I love to see Alonso putting some more emotion for the title contenders!
Being a Hamilton fan I’m sure I could be considered biased. That said reverse the incidents today, and say Massa had done what Hamilton did at the start, I would NOT have deemed a penalty fair. On the other hand if Hamilton had done what Massa did, then I would have thought Hamilton well deserving of a penalty.
IMHO the stewards only penalised Hamilton to ‘even thuings up’ as they had to penalise Massa.
F1 stinks at the moment. IMHO rotten to the core. Give the title to Ferrari, just get it over and done with.