F1 to split in two as FOTA teams announce their own world championship
Australia 2009: The beginning of the end for F1?
F1 has moved a step closer to splitting in two as the eight FOTA teams have announced they are to form their own racing series.
Autosport reports that Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, BMW, Toyota, Brawn GP, Red Bull and Toro Rosso are to create their own series independent of Formula 1.
Update: FOTA press release added
This leaves next year’s Formula 1 championship with only five confirmed teams: Williams, Force India, Manor, USF1 and Campos. However the FIA is understood to have several other teams ‘in reserve’ to fill up the grid. These may include the likes of Prodrive and Epsilon Euskadi, but not Lola who withdrew their 2010 application earlier this week.
According to Autosport the teams announced:
The teams cannot continue to compromise on the fundamental values of the sport and have declined to alter their original conditional entries to the 2010 World Championship.
These teams therefore have no alternative other than to commence the preparation for a new Championship which reflects the values of its participants and partners. This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders.
Formula 1 splitting into two is the worst possible outcome of the FIA-FOTA negotiations which have dragged on for months. If this split comes to pass it will likely deal a devastating blow not just to F1, but the wider motor racing world.
We now face the prospect of a divided world championship in 2010, with neither of the two resulting series enjoying the strength that Formula 1 has accumulated in its 60-year history. At a time of such economic turmoil, it is a desperate course of action to take.
Update: Press release from FOTA:
Since the formation of FOTA last September the teams have worked together and sought to engage the FIA and commercial rights holder, to develop and improve the sport.
Unprecedented worldwide financial turmoil has inevitably placed great challenges before the F1 community. FOTA is proud that it has achieved the most substantial measures to reduce costs in the history of our sport. In particular the manufacturer teams have provided assistance to the independent teams, a number of which would probably not be in the sport today without the FOTA initiatives.
The FOTA teams have further agreed upon a substantial voluntary cost reduction that provides a sustainable model for the future. Following these efforts all the teams have confirmed to the FIA and the commercial rights holder that they are willing to commit until the end of 2012.
The FIA and the commercial rights holder have campaigned to divide FOTA. The wishes of the majority of the teams are ignored. Furthermore, tens of millions of dollars have been withheld from many teams by the commercial rights holder, going back as far as 2006. Despite this and the uncompromising environment, FOTA has genuinely sought compromise.
It has become clear however, that the teams cannot continue to compromise on the fundamental values of the sport and have declined to alter their original conditional entries to the 2010 World Championship. These teams therefore have no alternative other than to commence the preparation for a new Championship which reflects the values of its participants and partners.
This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders. The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series.
Note to Eds: Statement issued by FOTA on behalf of BMW-Sauber, BrawnGP, Scuderia Ferrari, McLaren- Mercedes, Red Bull Racing, Renault, Scuderia Toro Rosso, Toyota.
Read more: Max Mosley is wrong. The only split F1 needs is a break away from him
What a shame
I agree a shame , but nothing we didn’t see coming.
“And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
This bible quote pretty much sums it all up. max mosley is the satan. He’s the anti-christ that the bible refers to. all good things have to come to an end. F1 too had an end. This is the end of an era. F1 R.I.P.
& to max & bernie——— U’ll rot in hell.
Never did I think I would see a Bible reference on a site like this, but you pretty much said it all there…
Amen
‘Rot in hell’ might be going a bit too far, but let’s just say I won’t be sending Max ’spankalot’ Mosley any Christmas cards this year. I’m 100% behind FOTA- and I don’t even like Ferrari!
i know, i can’t stand ferrari, but i would never watch F1 without them, nor any of the other major teams. It just wouldn’t be the same.
I think everyone saw it coming and Max should be seriously ashamed of himself. I don’t see how you can introduce radical new rules and then put a budget cap on top of that. I hope at least that 1. FOTA races at donnington park and 2. Nico Rosberg moves to a FOTA team
Good! No more Max and Bernie!! wooohoooo!!!
Maybe not…..I’m sure if they can they will find a way to get involved and mess it up somehow.
i always knew max mosley was a nutcase, but today he’s gone one step ahead and completely proved me correct. I stand vindicated. he’s completely lost in a reality forgotten land. this is the height of lunacy. no responsible head of a international organization would utter such nonsense. what does he mean by saying F1 can do without the nine teams. this is just unbelivable. he has no respect for the chair he holds. the guy must understand that the teams were the ones who put him onto the coveted chair. This is a perfect example of misuse of power & authority. This guy is hell bent upon inflicting incurable wounds on the sport. the way things are moving we might lose the sport forever. isn’t there a voluntary retirement scheme in the FIA? please this man should be kept as far away as possible from f1. first he lost his image, then he lost his son, now he is hell bent on losing the sport. it was very clear from the outset that these decisions were only of max. how can one lunatic be allowed to hold the entire sport at randsom? i’ve long ago realized that online petitions are of no use. we the average f1 fan must do something about this man. i would suggest boycotting the races, be it on the circuits,TV,internet, print media everywhere. why i say this is, the only man who i think is capable of installing some sense into max mosley is bernie. now bernie handles the commercial aspects of f1. so without “us†the average f1 fan, bernie=0, so in such a scenario, max will have to give into bernie’s demands. we all know how greedy & commercial bernie is. so there is no way bernie will put max ahead of his commercial interests. so the only way to save this sport is to completely BOYCOTT it until max gives into bernie’s demand. There is an old chinese proverb:
“A JOURNEY OF THOUSAND MILES BEGINS WITH A SINGLE STEPâ€.
so i’ve taken my first step. i’ll not be watching the british gp on tv. so definitely the TRP rating will go down, cuz many of my friends will be joining my boycott, we are about 600 ppl. hope ppl do the same thing. this is to bring the trp rating down. bernie always keeps blabbing tv viewers. he’s gone as far as saying that TV audiences are more important than circuit fans. so this boycott must pinch bernie in his butt. only then he’ll blink.
please save this wonderful sport or else we’ll lose it forever.
the sport will rise like the pheonix from the flames of old! and bout time to the sport has slowly but surly been going the wrong road since 05 and we havnt seen real battles since 06. my point being there is a new hope on the table i think that the great 8 will go back a few years keep the v8’s but go back to the great rule’s three tire wings, sticky tyre’s that suit the car and driver the best, 1 engine per race w.end flat out racing as the great mika would put it (im a ferrari fan but even i knew he was magic!!) all the thing’s that matter then us the fan’s can get back to the good ol days of disliking each other because thats 1 of the thing that sport is… any sport!its about or own we sunday war of word between friends and fow on who is the best team the best driver. these are the things that f1 has been mising i never turned races of in 20 years till last year when the car in front stayed there unless there was a problem! now i only watch the first 10 r 15 mins then the last half hour now i only look 4ward to moto gp! for hard fast exciting racing i have a great filling of butter flys in the tummy as we are about to move into a new and bright age thank god for the chaos theary it give hope to the masses and dispair to the greedy!! sorry for any spellin mistakes pep’s
beware: the unknown evil is sometimes worse than the known evil.
this didn’t work with cart/irl and it won’t work here, if it actually happens. i’m not 100% convinced it will.
either way, this won’t be good.
Not exactly like CART/IRL; more like CART/USAC which went just fine for CART.
Really? REALLY really? I’ll believe it when I see it. Shame on the journos (like the one on 5live) who are taking this without a pinch of salt.
Is the official FOTA website a shameful “journos”?
Shocking- I hope it will not come to pass.
If it dose happen, I hope USF1 jumps with the FOTA bunch.
I hope that USF1 has a get out clause with FIA so they can join fota if they wish.
Exactly- hopefully they aren’t signed up to any kind of contract with the FIA. Same for Cmpos and Manor, for that matter.
Well, I think Williams & Force India will also jump ship to FOTA. That is, if they are smart. ‘Cos I know whose series I’ll be watching next year, and it won’t be S&Max’s one.
I’ll second that Mrs.Pink….and I hope USF1 does the same,I finally get a home team to root for and the bottom fell out of F1!
Maybe they can call the new series “F” Max…as in “F” off….sorry,I have been saving that one.
Well it would seem that Williams have put all their cards in the FIA F1 camp and don’t want anything to do with FOTA’s series.
I am not a lawyer, but I imagine that by submitting their application to the FIA (along with the money), they’re already bound to some form of a contract. Whether or not that contract has escape clauses and loopholes is another issue. I think the entry forms can be found online, but I do not have time to read through them right now…
Ahh yes but the smart lawyer would ensure that if the FIA are unable to provide a decent field that no doubt FI, Williams and co. have signed up to compete again, he would/should a clause to the effect of “If the Federation and governing bodies are unable to provide all the conditions to which the undersigned have committed to, then it is at the discrection of the undersigned as to if they are going to compete in the competition for the duration signed”. Or there abouts! Let’s not forget that Max’s list for who is signed for 2010 included FOTA members. If they’re not going to compete then I would suggest that have breached contract if not some other law.
I think all that makes sense?!?!
When I say that they’ve breached contract I am refering to the FIA, for providing a list of competitors that they couldn’t be sure were going to be there in 2010. So those that have pledged allegiance to the FIA are well within their rights to believe that the FIA have mislead them in providing a list they couldn’t be sure was correct.
Don’t worry I have confused myself also!!!
Wow FIA really are stupid. I can’t believe this has actually happened
You think that it’s the FIA that are stupid?
I agree with Tommy they’ve let this escalate to huge proportions and now look what we have.
Yes they are….and have been for a few years now.
They could both be stupid, but FIA a litle more stupid i think.
I don’t think anybody involved is stupid – stubborn, maybe, but not stupid. This may just be the highest-stake gamble ever.
This is just my ignorant opinion, but I think the FIA’s intent was actually good – they simply wanted sustainability. I am still looking forward to F1 racing next year. Obviously, the teams had their own way of doing it. I think the FIA had to stand their ground in order to provide stability for next year’s rules. If they kept pushing back deadlines, nobody could start developing their cars for next year (and teams are already starting), let alone all the sponsorship implications that result from uncertainty. The FIA is the rule maker and they had to draw a line in the sand. I actually think Max was being fairly accommodating. I think the FIA is right in saying that there were some teams that were intent on splitting from F1 one way or another.
While the FOTA press release makes their new series sound like it will be a dream come true, it’s still too early to declare it International Rainbows and Bunnies Day. I am a bit skeptical that the FOTA can pull off a new series in 2010 with this kind of time frame. They now face a whole new set of challenges. In any kind of organization, you’ll have competing factions – we just witnessed what happens when factions involved in F1 can’t get along. Well, now that one of those factions has their own thing started, it will only be a matter of time before egos and personal agendas (not that those things would ever exist in big money international motorsport! lol) will form new factions there. The FOTA’s road is about to get even more difficult. I also imagine there will still be attempts to prevent this split, so it’s far from over. Time will tell.
Like I said, this is just my ignorant opinion, so I’m probably the one who’s going to be called stupid here.
Not ignorant at all.
On the outside chance a breakaway series can even be logistically & financially created in such a short period of time, it will only be a matter of a 2, maybe three years at the most before the obvious conflicts of interest (with the teams being both competitors & legislators) tear the new series apart.
Why would someone spend 300-400 million a year to be a back marker (with no hope of advancing due to the rival governing factions) when 1/4 the amount could be spent to be competitive? That’s a tough sell to the board of directors at Toyota, Renault or even BMW.
Sure, Max & Bernie suck. Rip-off artists, scammers, opportunists the case can be made for all these titles. In this case however, FOTA may not be any better & in the long run, I fear they will likely be worse.
I’m pretty nervous about this news – not quite sure how to feel about it… it will certainly be interesting at Silverstone this weekend that’s for sure.
I have to say that in my opinion, the FIA have brought this upon themselves and although I agree this result is not ideal, it is the only way Max and Bernie are to be dispensed with.
We all should be nervous about this situation.
Maybe the Phoenix will rise up out the FIA ashes and a new sport will be born that will be see n to run effectively for longer than 60 yrs.
I knew there was going to be a Phoenix reference in there somewhere bud
nothe Phoenix reference comes later in theis article bud.
I can see max on his knees begging for the ‘FOTA 8′ to come back when he realises there’s only gonna be three teams capable of fielding cars. The sheet has officially hit the fan!
Max will only realise he has done wrong in the years ahead. In the meantime he will just add the other lesser teams to the F1 grid for next year. He will obviously think that it will be a match for any FOTA series.
I thought the FIA would back down, but I don’t think they’re the begging type
also, it’ll just be too little too late.
I’ve had a think now about this and can’t wait for the new series, was worried at first. But the history is with the teams and the people, we wont forget F1, the new series will be way better, going back to circuits they used to race, cheaper tickets, better regulations
it’ll be great!
Yeah, Lenny, I can see Max on his knees too… Being whipped by some escorts dressed as prison guardians.
lmao
I’m afraid this is not a laughing matter.
I know it’s only sport, but peoples lives and jobs are at stake here. This is a very serious situation.
I for one hope that the powers that be in the FIA and WMSC don’t see this as just a threat and take it seriously and do something about it.
I would rather have F1 fixed than dismantled.
I get sick of reading this, sorry scunnyman but peoples lives and jobs are at stake every day of the week and I don’t here anyone campaigning for that.
well said Dougie, I’m tired of hearing this too
Well how many times do you get high thousands of people losing their jobs all in one go, and from the same highly skilled industry.
it’s not like there is a big market out there for all these jobs.
Maybe the new crappier F1???
Well not from F1 that’s for sure… at the most it’ll be a couple of thousand… and that’s me being generous, I doubt it’ll make 4 figures at all.
However, if the media is any indication, then most months of the year there are thousands of jobs lost in a single event.
I don’t think any jobs are at stake, i think jobs are actually going to be made, because obviously, the teams just cant keep track of themselves, there needs to be a body whcih will deal with the paperwork as so to speak.
I agree that F1 should be fixed and all the teams should be back together again, but i don’t think that is going to happen. Mosley has left it too late.
Hopefully though, if they do split, they can show up Mosley big time. When he sees all the big teams really successful and really popular, he really will be begging on his knees for mercy and forgiveness.
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!
This is probably what we all wished would happen, but really thought it never would. Yes, no more Max. Maybe no more Bernie? In fact, FOTA may be just playing their last BIG card hoping FIA folds at the last minute. FIA aquieses or FOTA really does get a new series going next year. I’ll tell you guys, I have lived through the CART/Indycar stuff and it really hurts the entire series regardless of whose side you’re on.
Having said that, FOTA has Ferrari, BMW, Mercedes/McLaren, Renault and the rest. Could be different. It really does have the potential to be great! Especially based on the FOTA announcement posted on Autosport. WOW! Freakin’ incredible! F1 never ceases to amaze me for drama.
You are correct in that this isn’t exactly like the IRL/CART split. With IRL/CART you had a division of the big name teams/drivers/etc between the two factions. Arguably you had more big names going to CART and more of the big venues sticking with IRL. In this case you’ll have virtually all of the big names going with the FOTA option. FOTA also has the chance to pick up on some big name venues as well. This may be the last F1 race at Silverstone, but FOTA could be back next year. This would be a big blow to FIA as there is no guarantee they will have a place to hold an F1 British Grand Prix next year. Also some F1 events now trade off between venues in alternate years. If the FOTA were to be able to secure contracts with some of those venues on their off years, it would be another big boost to the FOTA product.
The FIA division will also have some difficulty from the economy. The sponsors were already planning on cutting back even before the split. Now sponsors have to decide which of the two series to back. This will likely lead a lot more of them to sit out a year and see who attracts more fans. The big name teams will be more apt to have sponsors who will not risk losing their relationships. If you think about it from the sponsors’ perspective, are you more likely to risk losing your chance to be associated with Campos or Ferrari? No offense to any Williams or Force India fan out there, but they aren’t the current F1 teams that have sponsors calling them to get on board. There is a real possibility of seeing most of the F1 field open the season with a nearly sponsorless chassis, like Brawn had at the start of this year. And face it, if Brawn hadn’t started this year on fire and wasn’t the big front runner this year, they would have probably finished the year with a plain white car.
Overall this is definitely not a desirable outcome, but still it probably won’t turn out as disastrous as the IRL/CART split. I just don’t see this one as quite as even a split. The economics of the matter put some pressure on Max and Bernie to compromise, as the alternative for them is to personally subsidize the F1 series for at least next year and almost certainly several more. Even if F1 proves to be the series that makes it, they will have a terrible time getting sponsors next year. If FOTA has bigger names and lower ticket prices, that puts incredible pressure on F1 to match or undercut the FOTA ticket prices. Put all this together and it appears F1 will be bleeding money next year.
The big question, however, is how will the FOTA series do financially, and if they have major losses who will absorb them and how long can they keep it up?
forget that – that’s in the future… the big question is how are they going to put in a set or rules, governance, car spec and design rules, secure tracks, branding, advertising and everything else associated with running a race series in just a half dozen months?
this stinks of calling the fia’s bluff and failure.
Getting the details lined out is actually the easy part:
-Car spec: use the cars from 2009, or 2008 specs
-Governance & Rules: FOTA knows what rules work and which don’t, lots of experience on those teams, and for a sanctioning body, the fellow over at MotoGP could help out there, or they could appoint their own governing body
-Tracks: plenty of tracks will jump at the chance for a FOTA race. no problem there, and working out financial arrangements with tracks should be pretty standard in the industry(and I’d think many tracks would be happier to work with FOTA than Bernie, as they’d not take such a financial beating
All the FOTA teams have their own batteries of lawyers and “go to” guys, the ones who get things done–they could put the whole package together quickly, I’d think–I’d wager they have been working on many parts of it for several weeks now
Media coverage will be the thing, of course….wonder what TV coverage would like to have the series Ferrari, McLaren and the LAST F1 Champion are racing in/…probably all of them, and bet the calls are going on behind the scenes already
Make no mistake, if FOTA is serious, and I think they are, half the world will jump to them with offers of help in putting the new series on, and I believe that goes for sponsors too.
oh an tv rights, line up international broadcasters and times slots that would no doubt conflict with f1 and all the other racing series out there…
Frankly TV is probably one of the easier things to do in a hurry. They can get on television in most of the developed world with one call to Rupert Murdoch. News Corp has the geographic reach to put them on the air nearly everywhere. Granted there are better media outlets than the News Corp option in some markets, but still if they felt pressure to get something done FAST, it could be done. Then before the 2011 series they could have something better lined up. This wouldn’t perfect from the start, but at least its something to build from.
“go form your own series” said the Dictator…
Seems like FOTA duly listened.
Indeed
Good on them. If a deal had been reached, Max and Bernie would still be in charge, so that would be like treating the symptoms of a disease, not the cause.
I think the only deal Fota would really accept would involve the resignation of Mosley. And that my friends ain’t gonna happen.
That’s what’s so great about this new championship!
bargaining chip imo
just like last time
Oh yeah, if this really does come to pass I can only hope Williams goes with FOTA. USF too! (Although both have already signed up with FIA. Probably too late.) Pretty sure Williams can win that division of entrants though. Maybe even Force India!
If the split really does happen and we get a watered down F1 then it will be the same as champ car. At least then Rosberg will become 4 times f1 champ just as Bourdais did in Indycar.
Williams took the money and was forced to enter unconditionally. And Rosbergs contract is up for renewal this year so who knows where he will go…
Hopefully if they do come to terms they should agree to get rid off Bernie and Max.
I’m sorry to say but it ain’t gonna happen. Too much bureaucracy going on in that party.
Gotta agree with this one.
Now Max can make F1 Formula Cosworth and we can watch FOTA become F1.
As I said before,It can never be ‘Formula One’.
Just because Bernie owns the rights to certain names and the FIA owns F1, doesnt mean it wont be F1. Everyone in the world was calling something a grand prix when it wasnt even a race and still people know that GP means F1 and the real fans will follow the real racing not the made show.
It could be possible for the european motor manufacturers to buy the F1 commercial rights from CVC. Bernie was retained as the CEO of CVC but an offer to purchase could just relieve Bernie form his contractual obligations to TV broadcasters, race promoters etc. One thing is sure Bernie will find himself in breach of contract if the FOTA teams are not featured in 2010 and beyond as an alternative F1 is not what these guys have signed contracts for.
There is no way FOTA can call themselves F1 in any form whatsoever, so long as Bernie owns the rights.
Maybe the should call it EFFWON LOL?
Perhaps “F W O N” or “FotaWon”, whatever they call it, I’ll back them.
I was also toying with “World Auto Racing” , or “WAR”, which I thought was fitting.
that was good. WAR!
I think this one’s catchy: Racing Inside Fast Tracks, or RIFT.
LOL:-)
Great lol particularly the “fotawon” got my vote
I am so glad to see Brawn on that list. This is great the champ leader saying they will leave too. Awesome just awesome f*&k Bernie and Max and those FIA a-holes they can all just go and rot in hell where they belong. All the fans will follow FOTA well at least 90% of them will, F1 will be no more well at least governed by the FIA it will be no more. NF1 (New f1) will be much better without stupid regs and crazy rule changes every year. Way to say take your medal system and your budgets and shove them where the sun don’t shine.
well said
i highly doubt the majority will follow the new sport.
just like any break away or dispute, people don’t react well to change and end up keep doing what they do. watching f1.
I disagree, I think fans will watch whichever series has familiar names and teams, and that looks like the proposed FOTA series.
If the FOTA series goes ahead and they stick to their objectives then in my mind it’s going to be a fairly good series as it is focused on the fans, rather than the power and wealth of two people.
People should prepare themselves for a long hard road ahead if a new series is to succeed, if a new series even gets started.
It is not going to be easy to setup. Will take a **** load of cash. A lot of cooperation from many different parties. And it may take a few years to settle down.
I for one will proabbly watch both series (if that is at all possible) just to see who will get it right.
I’m sure FOTA have the right will to succeed, but the FIA have everything in place already.
I would hope that level heads prevail in FIA and they see that the protagonist is Mosley and without him in the mix they can resolve thing easily i’m sure.
Yeah, but when the teams that currently make up F1 as we know it are racing somewher else (in nations where there are really good fanbases) don’t you think people are still going to watch those teams and races?
Much like the tifosi who will pretty much follow Ferrari wherever they go.
Great day to be an italian speaking laywer.
LOL!
GPFanatic here we come
I’d get that url before anyone else does
Well let see what happens now. The FIA will take ferrari and redbull to court, but that cannot prevent them competing in another series. Presendence has already been set, Max said f1 doesn’t need Ferrari and further to that, FIA did not force honda to stay.
Rebull f1 will go broke then come back as redbull fota. Cant sue a company that is bankrupt.
A good portion of F1, CVC and Bernies contracts will fall over as of COB Friday arvo, what will happen then.
f1 cars in 2010 will be no longer. Cosworth were already struggling to build a engine up to current specs, how on earth do they propose to build enough engines for 10 teams, impossible task. Current f1 motor takes 5 days to build.
Mclaren ECU will no longer be part of the sport. So no electronics, and the best one for me. Only manufacture teams have been developing the gearboxes seemless shift etc etc. Cosworth dont have a gear box. Were on earth are these new teams going to get a gear box from that can be as realiable.
In all honesty though. I think this will be resolved really quickly. The FIA will have no option but give the teams what they want. Once they see the financial fall out world wide CVC and Bernie will have no option.
Problem is, FIA can’t give in like that. They have already agreed to their ridiculous rules on budget caps, etc. and if they go back on those, they will get sued by the other 8+ teams who are counting on the new rules…
I think it’s going to happen, and I’m pretty excited about it actually!
Williams make gearboxes. Why do you think BMW were competitive from scratch? In fact, Williams had the best seamless shift after the 2006 gremlins.
I can’t see FOTA teams keeping their sponsors. Where are they going to race? How long ’til all the regs are written? What are the car specs? Where are the marshals, medico’s and all the things coming from that make a GP weekend? This is just a threat, saying “we can ruin everything for everyone too Max.” Plus, Max has already started backing down.
The best time to push home your advantage is when your opponent is already in retreat…
Williams is one team. Are they going to provide a gearbox for the whole grid with less then 6 months prep time. Don’t think so. Also 06 is a long time ago. That gearbox would be below par compared to today standards.
As for FOTA and a new series. I don’t think it will be as hard as you think actually quite easy. The current f1 grid apart from 4 cars is what your getting for a racing series. F1 is the name, but the teams are the show.
Sponsors will go were the popular teams go. Vodafone wont advertise with Williams if there competing against no name f1 teams in a second rate series with no exposure. Bernie will be having contracts falling over as we speak. Because every contract will have strict clauses regarding the teams, exposure, etc etc.
Race tracks are easy to come buy. Not hard to get 17 tracks world wide to host the current f1 grids apart from 4 cars for ½ if not 1/3 of what Bernie Charges. Think about it. Silverstone, Mugello, San Marino, Indy, there are several f1 style tracks world wide that Bernie ditched that would love to host a race.
Car specs will be identical to this year. Or identical to those proposed and reject by the FIA.
Marshalls an medico will be provided by the track as they currently are.
Regs will be identical to current. There is nothing stopping the teams using the same rules, cars etc etc as current.
The more i think about it the more i think this threat is real contrary to what i said earlier.
It’s real but I don’t think you’ve seen the last of Bernie yet.
Xtrac will provide the gearboxes.
Cosworth used to supply most of the teams at one time. In those days the teams used as many engines as they wanted to.
It won’t be too hard for FOTA to get the infrastructure up and going most of it already exists and does not belong to the FIA or FOM.
Yeah cosworth use to, but dont know. They have gone from supplying 120 engines. (3 teams with a couple of blow ups) close to 500 engines accross the entire grid.
It takes merc 5 days to build an engine. and i dare say they would have it down pat. I dont think cosworth would have it down pat considering they have to revive an engines 3 years old.
Not only this, I would think some teams like Prodrive (merc second team), Ntechnology,(ferrari second team) would now sign up with fota.
Williams can step in a supply the gearbox. Standard ECU of Mclaren can still be used as its supplied by a different company. But who cares anyway, I’ll be watching the FOTA side of the wall. By the way how many hundreds of millions did the BBC pay for rights to F1 coverage?
“This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide, partners and other important stakeholders.”
“The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series.”
Listening to the fans
Well i will believe that when i see it all. If all goes badly with FIA over this latest statement then i want to see a detailed run down of how they intend to get the new series up and running and how much input they may want from us FANS.
As Ferrari seem to be the leaders of FOTA, and they have quoted Keith’s site then maybe they will ask Keith for his and our input????
not your input definitively. You’ve been bashing the FOTA in every thread of this forum
I’m starting to think you’re Bernie
Some one please tell me this is a joke. i always thaught this idea of a seperate championship was indeed a Leverage plan. why does Max have to bve so dam stubborn? this is exactly what happened to Indyacars and champcars and back in the day that series used to be the alternative to f1 until they destoyed thmselves. i really trully pray that common sense prevails and these people stick to the normal F1 championship
K, I hope they see it through though. It’s time to have a proper racing series. And I hope the court cases against Ferrari and Red Bull, the ones definitely going to happen, don’t detract from this.
Damn..ass..hell…
Go FOTA. I’ll watch.
It’s looking extremely likely Button will be the last F1 World Drivers Champion.
2007 and 2008 were two of the most entertaining seasons I have witnessed. Not capitalising on this just highlights how much the FIA and FOM have blundered IMHO.
I disagree on Button.
He’ll just be the last REAL F1 World Drivers Champion.
If things are not sorted like grownups then from 2010 they will be lesser champions.
Well I’ll be, if this doesnt bring Max, Bernie and the FIA to its knees nothing will. I will certainly follow the FOTA series if it starts, but I do believe this is the last ace in the pack and are calling the FIA’s bluff. Either way the new series would finally allow some awesome engineering and racing machines. I for one will be watching. F1 next year without the current teams will wither away and never recover. The FIA have to collapse now, but more likely Bernie will be proverbially sh****ng himself!
I am very surprised at how quiet Bernie has been lately.
Me too. I wonder what he’s doing behind the scenes?
Hopefully this also means an end to Sepang, Singapore, Shanghai, Valencia and Barcelona.
Hopefully FOTA sees sense and includes Magny Cours, Montreal, Jerez, Portimao and A1 Ring.
Don’t forget one or more venues in the United States as well….
Agreed Gman.
I’m sure FOTA (and don’t forget they can’t be called fota if they are not in F1) know the importance of the USA market and will try to get someone Like Tony George to help them sort a couple of venues in America. Even help the series in America too.
Indeed, thanks for the backing. Also, a FOTA series would protect races in Britian, France, Canada, and elsewhere. We’d also see venues that have good fanbases- Mexico, Argentina- return hopefully.
The really ironic thing is if a new series dose come to Indy, where many people think Tony George’s ego was the overwhelming factor in the IRL/Champ Car split.
The A1 Ring. Ewwwwwwww. Maybe if you travelled back in time and stole the one from the 70’s. Where in time is Caromn Santiego styles.
Niel, the grandstands and pit buildings of the A1 Ring were demolished long ago. The rebuilding will be finished by the end of 2010, and Dietrich Mateschitz (the owner) has ruled out any chance of a F1 (or a FOTA-series, probably) race in the venue. It will only be used for DTM races.
I hope it’s only a bluff. Anyway if it¿s true than it’s a very very sad thing. I’ll never watch F1 again and I hate to admit that the FOTA championship or however it will be called will not be the same it will take many years to develp a mystique around it.
F1 R.I.P.
True, it won’t have the history of F1
Duh!!!! think back to 1949. Was there a Formula One Chamionship then????
Nope. Of course not. It took years to get a history and a mystique.
And it does not mean that the races will not have the history.
Just think of the INDY 500. How many different series has that been involved? if you look at the trophy for indy it will have all the winners whichever series they were in at the time.
So look at Monaco, which may go to the FOTA run series. It wouldn’t be a F1 race anymore but the winner would still be classed along all previous winners.
Really the point is, if F1 dies then the new series will be F1 in all but name.
I’m just pointing out that this is a shame and a waste we already had 60 years of history within the sport and it’s been great so far.
Maybe Monaco will be there in the calendar but who knows how much longer it will take for Spa, Monza, Suzuka, Interlagos and others to join? Just the name change will be confusing for may who watch the races occasionally. I’m all for FOTA and their series but I would really prefer for Mosley to resign and everything to continue as it is now (Of course with all the things FOTA is proposing).
Now the first couple of years could be horrible not all fans are going to jump to FOTA’s series many will be confused by having fia’s F1 racing side by side and I guess not all of us are going to be able to watch the races, that will depend on how fast TV coverage grows.
I live in Argentina and I never get to see Le Mans it’s one of the most important races of the year but T.V. stations here think it’s not worth to broadcast it. So I do have some doubts about this.
So i hope it’s a big bluff from FOTA but if it’s not well then LONg LIVE FOTA!!!
Monaco have said earlier they are not interested in an F1 race without Ferrari.
Good for the FOTA to make a stand and the willingness to take a risk and start something that adhere to their values instead of someone elses. I am sure the new series will have alot of hicups but I for one will be looking forward to its growth and races!
Urgh!!!! When will this hell end! A split will never work.
Mosley needs de-throning – end of, then we can have a proper debate.
As Martin Brundle puts it “Come on guys, lets take a sensible pill”
What a way to overshadow the last Grand Prix at Silverstone. Shame!
I think this is great news for Silverstone personally.
FOTA will almost certainly have them on the list for the new series. this effectively saves hundreds of jobs at the circuit.
I agree, and perhaps the best part is about hundreds of jobs being saved. Max and Bernie were too big to think about that kind of stuff……
It’s too bloody late in the night for me to wrap my head around this and all its implications now. I just know that FOTA’s proposals in their press release, though fantastic, sound very idealistic…if the ‘new series’ isn’t a massive bluff.
Whatever happens now, I still support FOTA and trust that this is the best course of action they felt they could take.
Oh and another thing, if it does go through we can get rid of those piddly 2.4 litre engines and get some turbo power going!
If you want your drivers to pull 8g, pass out, crash and die then yes, by all means bring back turbo. And let’s have ground effect as well while we’re at it.
Engineering tolerances aren’t just for carbon fibre and rubber…
It’s a bit of a harsh response but people forget why these things were banned in the first place.
Lets hope that the FOTA hold firm – a dictatorship as exists now is not good for any sport
One question – what tracks will be avaliable for the new series? Silverstone may get a GP next year after all and please bring back Nurburg, Montreal and maybe Adelaide!!!!!!
The last 2 plus Silverstone would be great- plus one or more in the United States.
I’m not sure how many of the current venues are tied in with FOM Contracts, but assuming any circuit can join, we can have Suzuka every year
plus Imola, Algarve, Motorland Aragon, and lost of other good ones.
Plus, no more Valencia, Barcelona, Hungaroring
Imola!!! that would be great! What about Laguna Seca? I’m drooling already…
Well m8 if you are right and FOM may have no hold over the circuits, maybe FOTA will really listen to us fans and have a survey they really listen to which could include which tracks we would like to be used along with other bits and pieces we might like.
Bye Bye Max and Bernie… Hello FOTA!
I’m all for the split, if even after this call Max and co refuse to give in. I’ll watch. Hopefully Sky TV here in New Zealand take up coverage of this new championship! (and keep F1 coverage, if Prodive, Williams etc end up on the grid next year).
Good.
F1 was always about racing & innovation.
FIA was about politics and ego for too long.
I wish the FOTA every sucess and look forward to the racing.
Salty.
I think Williams and Force India might start to scratch their heads as their sponsors would think twice to pour them some money for some kind of F3 races, in which there will be no Ferrari, Macca, Reanult or so.
Maybe if they had sense both teams would have a get out clause in their contracts so they could jump back to FOTA if they wish.
Frank Williams has been quoted as saying they are there for racing only so i’m sure they would want to be in a series for real racing, and not the kind of racing we might see in F1 if this split does go ahead.
I sincerly hope that this is an eleventh-hour attempt to scare the FIA into … something. I remain convinced that a FOTA-backed series is doomed to failure for several reasons, including a lack of teams; FOTA can field sixteen cars where the FIA can run with twenty-six. FOTA cannot get new teams from anywhere: given the economy, no-one is going to be willing to build a team from the ground up, and the FIA already has all the entries in their pocket. Likewise, you can bet Bernie Ecclestone will be signing contracts with circuits to say they’ll work with him and none other (unless he hasn’t done so already). Everything needs to be negotiated with corprorate sponsors, broadcast partners, circuits owners and event organisers, all of which will take time that FOTA does not have.
FOTA teams might race on track with 3 cars per team, which makes it 24.
Yeah, and that’s going to be cheap.
I don’t think you can make someone sign a contract preventing them from doing business with another party. And why would a race track want that. For the joy of paying BE $60 Million a year (with no Ferrari ect).
Besides. You can look for tracks outside the F1 calender. BE can’t sign em all. I can’t see Nurb or Hock going to sign to BE. They barely wanna pay what he wants now.
I think you will find FOTA series will be more popular, Bernie cannot stop tracks hosting other races. This is commerical suicide for the track and not only this against the law. As for new teams. A fota series unlike the f1 series will more then likely gurantee 80% – 90% of tv revenue goes to the teams. Unlike current. It has already been worked out a new series will give the teams the same money they are currently getting. Difference is they own the series, The have a vested interest in it therefore they will all work together. As for tracks, Silverstone will sign up tommorrow morning. Existing tracks that bernie does not own can do what ever they like. Think about it you can host the current f1 grid bar 4 teams at 1/2 if not 1/3 of the cost. Not only that the deal is sweetened further with the tracks owning everything. Paddock club etc etc. Currently different companies own advertising boards, paddock club etc etc. Tracks will make profit.
You also need to think that there would be several contract relating to f1 and bernie that will fall over. People signed contract with the current grid. I have no doubt if 80% of that grid walk away, there will be breaches.
Bernie, FIA and f1 is dead all because of power, cash and ego’s.
The winner here is the fans.
Several teams have pulled out their application to enter F1, Lola and N technologies, who is to say the others on the waiting list will not do likewise.
I wonder what the BBC will do
If Bernie goes with FOTA (a possibility) then BBC have a contract with FOM, not the FIA.
Bernie also has the rights to the ‘Formula One’ name (the FIA, as I understand, have ‘World Championship’)
In a way, ironically, the fans might actually need Bernie in order to keep the racing on a terrestrial channel.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8108492.stm
Phone interview thing, with David Croft on 5live. Apparently they already have a list of possible tracks they may choose to race at.
Just listened to the radio interview, i found it very interesting, but nothing we didn’t already know.
If you see my post on the other thread called “F1 Leaving Britain Would be Madness” you will see that a lot of this comes down to money and who calls the tune.
I think the FIA have p****d off Lola and Prodrive/Aston Martin. The advanced nature of Lola’s project showed their commitment but this was thrown aside more than likely due to previous actions on the part of both companies. Additionally, Ross Brawn has already commented on the adverse impact this war is having on signing title sponsors. How could any major business get involved with an FIA F1 WC with a potentially low quality field? How could Lola and Prodrive now rustle up the finances to run in 2010?
This IMHO is greatest example of brinkmanship I have seen in a while. FOTA have put the ball firmly in FIA’s court. Either they get rid of Max and Bernie to keep the FOTA teams or they suffer the massive negative publicity and associated financial loss in losing the big names in F1.
Personally, I’m now at the point where I am so turned off by Max and Bernie, that I would rather watch FOTA’s championship than anything these two old, greedy fools have to offer. They’ve got to go. Now!
This is the link.
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2009/06/16/f1-leaving-britain-would-be-madness/#comments
actually……does this mean teams will start work on a new car? im sure for most teams work on the the 2010 F1 challangers are underway but with a new series what are the cars going to look like and whren does the work on them start? its quite late as it is to make another racing car th this stage especially for next year. any thoughts?
tracks are hard. insurance and promoters will be difficult. But when people have a chance to make millions of dollars and give a giant FU to a hated political rival, people seem to do amazing things.
I would assume they would just use the cars they started designing. The FIA or FOM have no copyright on the cars. I assume.
I would say to save money FOTA would leave the cars as they are this season, but allow more testing so the teams can become closer for next season. If they could get some of the new teams waiting in the wings to join then they could(maybe) design their cars to 2009 regs.
from 2011 then the FOTA series may decide to redesign the cars to suit a better series with better tracks and better drivers than the F1 series.
Much as I think this showdown had to happen, for the good of the fans and the sport, it is terrible news for Williams isn’t it?
Williams made their bed….
I believe Williams had no choice but to apply to the F1 championship.
Williams may have to sit out the 2010 season of the FOTA series, but if Max’s F1 does manage to provide the teams with a profit then I see no reason why Williams couldn’t sign up to compete in BOTH series.
Alternatively, I could still see Williams jumping ship and going with FOTA – there’s nothing that say they have to field a competitive team in F1 next year…
Nothing stopping Williams from running in both series.
This is how I see it…
1) The tracks can’t afford to run two races, will want to go with the breakaway series, but will need to get out of their contracts with Bernie
2) Until they can get out of their contracts, the tracks will not commit to races with the rival series.
3) There is no rival F1 series until there is a calendar.
4) The sponsors will not want to spend any money until they are sure there is a calendar and so a series.
So we will have a stalemate. Meanwhile, the motorsport authorities will be putting pressure on Max to resign. This means both sides will be groveling to each other to reconsider.
The most likely scenario is that someone caves in.
The second most likely, considering the stalemate outlined above, would be no series at all. Most of the teams wouldn’t mind this, considering the recession. They would all like a year off to save money and come back stronger next year.
Even if the rival series can get the tracks together, the FIA will be moving to get rid of Mosley. Maybe then the teams would be invited back into the fold, on their terms. Because it would be embarrassing to run a series where the second best team is Force India. This is the third most likely situation.
A distant, distant fourth option is the two series, but I see one of the above happening first.
Damian
Silverstone is out of contract after this year. They’ve got Moto GP coming in 2010. Hockenheim is out of contract after 2010 and Nurburgring cannot afford the franchise fee on its own so they might drop off the calendar. France is off the calendar at the moment, but Paul Ricard is still owned by a Bernie company, I think. Spain Valencia/Jerez/Barcelona. Portugal (Portimao). Surfer’s Paradise has got A1 GP from this upcoming season but they could be interested. Montreal, Indy, Suzaka or Fuji. Imola, Brno.
The thing is Damian, the contracts are already drawn up and I seriously doubt they exclude other events from the circuit (pesky EU laws on competition as well as goods services and trade). The promoters can sign deals with other series as they see fit. I think they are all up for grabs as they can see more of a share of the real profits from the races. The only ones that won’t are those owned by Bernie.
Barcelona and Sahkir Bahrain have contracts until 2016. Istanbul Park, which Bernie paid US$180 million for, has a contract up to 2021. Hungaroring sign a five year extension in 2007. Singapore was set up by a long time frind of Bernie, Ong Beng Seng who covers 40% of the US$140 million cost of the race. Sadly Sau Paulo extended their contract in November 2008 up until 2014. Also no Monaco. Spa…no one knows who paid the US$50 million for the upgrade of the pit and paddock… probably Bernie. Donnington – I’ll be interested if Gillette wants to shoot his mouth off about having a 17 year contract right now.
Surfers Paradise is a disgraceful excuse for a track (in my opionion that is)
I quite like Surfer’s paradise. It would be nice to see F1 style cars racing through surfer’s chicanes like they do/did in indycar.
HAs anyone driven surfer’s on a video game?
I have with toca race driver games and it is not that easy. So it would be a challenge for the teams and drivers.
Also i’d be interesting if Fota would like to try for BATHURST as a track?
Bathurst would be awesome, but not very realistic. It’s kind of in the middle of nowhere, to far from a main capital city and an international airport to be practical I would expect.
Actually there could be a Monaco race. It was mentioned in the coverage of this year’s race that Monaco is actually the 1 race on the calendat that doesn’t have a contract with FOM – it’s just always on the calendar!!
And as has previously been mentioned, there is nothing Bernie can do to stop circuits signing up to host another series on a different weekend to F1 – at least not the circuits he doesn’t own – due to EU competition laws!!
Besides the prince of Monaco says he doesn’t want an F1 race without Ferrari in it.
F1 As we know & Love it will never survive without the 8 members of FOTA!Lets hope it becomes 9 or 10 to include the vital Frank Williams & USF1 with Matt Bishop,Let Bernard run his series as GP3 or something & let the Masters of the current grid make their breakaway series “Faster & as technically challenging as possible”
BrettM had the first great Question where will they race?? Bernard has a load of stuff tied up lets hope the classic circuits will both remain & be re introduced!!Who’s gonna run it?? Mansell,Stewart,Hill,Branson,Jordan,Todt?? I’ll have a go!!
Viva FOTA Maybe Max & Bernard should apply for their “Paddock Club” Passes soon!!
We have to nuke the FIA from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure.
hehehe…
PLEASE PEOPLE NOW MORE THEN EVER I ASK YOU ALL WHO ARE TO ATTEND THE BRITISH GP TO PROTEST AND SHOW YOUR DIS CONTEMPT AGAINST FIA AND MAX. MAKE SOME HUGE FLAGS AND BANNERS SAYING WHAT YOU THINK!!! THE CAMS WON’T BE ABLE TO IGNORE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF ANGRY FANS!!!
pleasE!!!!!!!!!!!11
Yes, because that’s worked in the past …
[/sarcam]
yes!!!i completely agree with you. we must carry anti- max mosley banners,placards & we should also burn down effigies of max & bernie, all in a peaceful way of course.
Why should should he resign, he’d need common sense to do that, and he hasn’t got enough of that in reserve.
Can someone tell me how other than resigning or being shot,Can Max be removed?? If he is the pinacle of FIA with no bosses or anyone to put him to rites then how or why would he lose his job????
I think I’m happy about this. Mosely/Bernie are an enormous drag on the sport.
F1 won’t survive as we know it without the Ferrari, McLaren, Toyota, etc. It will instantly become the “B-League” to FOTA. This is especially true since the FOTA teams are going to be driving the best cars in the world (as they’ll be allowed to invest in technology liberally).
In the short-run, the sport will face tremendous uncertaintly. However, in the long-run, I truly think the sport of racing will be better off for ridding itself of the cumbersome management/regulatory framework that burdens the sport so heavily today.
Even with FOTA series the teams are going to have to save money. It is right that money being spent on F1 has gotten out of hand.
But the main cause of this has been the constant tinkering with regulations by FIA.
So it wouldn’t take a genius to realise that if the new series can be more stable then money will be saved easily.
It would be wrong to ask the teams to spend spend spend just because Max would not be on their backs to do a budget cap.
I have always agreed on saving money in F1 but just against the budget cap idea.
Maybe the new FOTA series could tag team with Moto GP and race at the same venue on the same weekend. Imagine the crowds every race. Plus there could be two races in the USA
Good idea Dante’
I have not watched MOTOGP, so i don’t know how much of a weekend they use and what support races they have to allow for the FOTA series to run.
And as for support races like GP2 and whatever else. I wonder what will happen to them?
God, I hope that never happens. MotoGP is more than big enough to stand on its own two feet. Running with FOTA would have a negative diluted effect. MotoGP is a better entertainment spectacle than either of these series could ever be.
did you see rossi’s move on lorenzo last week? that was unbeliveable.
and three drivers with 106 pts. rossi, lorenzo and hayden.
In F1 Button is light years away.
btw they could use the same championship format for points too with moto GP.
Here’s a reply you will never hear to that question in F1… “which one?”… LOL!!
I’m presuming you mean the last corner overtake for the win. Did I ever see it, I was right there in the stadium section, I saw it with my own eyes. I went ballistic! Watch the team celebrate, that was me in the stadium…it was amazing, I get a rush of adrenalin every time I think about it.
Who needs F1?
oh, btw…
Its three riders with 106pts… Rossi, Lorenzo & Stoner
sorry stoner!! haha. yes, the battle for the lead changed hands quite a bit, the spanish gp for motogp was more exciting than all the spanish GP’s f1 has. right?? my apologies to Stoner of Ducati, foolish me.haha
you mean:
… three drivers with 106 pts. rossi, lorenzo and STONER.
It was an awesome race for sure. Who said Barcelona always produces dull races
I’ve been thinking of something and FIA’s F1 is over no track will pay those sums of money to Bernie just to have Force India, Manor, Campos and Williams racing there and The track sponsors such as Santander won’t pay for this. It might last one or two more years but it’s over. MAx you have dug your own grave!!!!