Japanese Grand Prix grid (updated)
The FIA has said the final grid will be announced on Sunday morning in Japan. There is some confusion as to what order penalties were issued in, which could alter the starting order. In the meantime this is the expected grid:
1. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull-Renault – 1′32.160
2. Jarno Trulli, Toyota – 1′32.220
3. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren-Mercedes – 1′32.396
4. Nick Heidfeld, BMW – 1′32.945
5. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari – 1′32.980
6. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn-Mercedes – 1′32.660***
7. Nico Rosberg, Williams-Toyota – 1′31.482
8. Adrian Sutil, Force India-Mercedes – 1′32.466***
9. Robert Kubica, BMW – 1′32.341
10. Jenson Button, Brawn-Mercedes – 1′32.962***
11. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren-Mercedes – no time*
12. Jaime Alguersuari, Toro Rosso-Ferrari – no time
13. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso-Ferrari – no time****
14. Giancarlo Fisichella, Ferrari – 1′31.704
15. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams-Toyota – 1′31.718
16. Romain Grosjean, Renault – 1′32.073
17. Fernando Alonso, Renault – 1′31.638***
18. Vitantonio Liuzzi, Force India-Mercedes – 1′32.087*
19. Mark Webber, Red Bull-Renault – no time**
Penalties
*five-place penalty for a gearbox change
**will start from pit lane
***five-place penalty for failing to slow down sufficiently under yellow flags
****five-place penalty for driving an unsafe car back to the pits
The penalties were applied in the following order:
17:52: Alonso (drops to 17th)
18:05: Barrichello (drops to tenth, Button sixth, Kovalainen eighth, Buemi ninth)
18:07: Button (drops to 11th, Barrichello ninth, Kovalainen seventh, Buemi eighth)
18:08: Sutil (drops to ninth, Barrichello eighth, Kovalainen sixth, Buemi seventh)
18:54: Kovalainen (drops to 11th, Sutil eighth, Barrichello seventh, Button tenth, Buemi sixth)
19:18: Buemi (drops to 11th, Sutil seventh, Barrichello sixth, Button ninth, Kovalainen tenth)
Not starting:
Timo Glock, Toyota
Japanese Grand Prix
- Vettel has slight strategy advantage (Japanese Grand Prix fuel weights)
- Button, Barrichello, Alonso, Sutil and Buemi get five-place grid penalties
- Sebastian Vettel takes pole in crash-hit session (Japanese Grand Prix qualifying)
- Crashes for Alguersuari, Glock and Kovalainen halt Japan qualifying (Video)
Hey Keith. Were are the fuel predictions and stragtegie of the japanese Grand Prix?
Kind regards,
Frans
The Netherlands
Fuel weights haven’t been revealed yet. They’ll be posted at the top of the home page when they are.
Are the drivers promoted into the top ten due to the penalties still able to tweak their fuel strategies. Rosberg and Kubica could be dangerous from 7th and 8th if they run a one stopper.
Anyone know the rule on this one?
yep they are allowed. and they have!
Apparently Button, Barrichello, Kubica, Heidfeld, Alonso, Sutil and Buemi have been summoned by the stewards, presumably regarding the yellow flag incident in Q2.
If all seven get penalised, based on the number and severity of charges plus Q1 times, the grid will look something like this:
1 – Vettel
2 – Trulli
3 – Hamilton
4 – Raikkonen
5 – Kovalainen
6 – Rosberg
7 – Button
8 – Barrichello
9 – Alonso
10 – Kubica
11 – Heifeld
12 – Sutil*
13 – Buemi**
14 – Glock
15 – Alguersuari
16 – Fisichella
17 – Nakajima
18 – Grosjean
19 – Liuzzi
20 – Webber
* Sutil said to be on two charges, thus demoting him to the back.
** Buemi possibly on charge of driving damaged car, the most severe of all charges, hence I put him behind Sutil.
Uhm, moving forward due to a penalty doesn’t seem to make any sense. If Alonso and Kubica sped thru yellow they surely can’t move up the grid, can they?
And how has Button got ahead of Barrichello?
Because he’s a lucky f***
Hats off to the stewards. Hope they maintain this level of consistency in the future. This is really good for the championship though.
i wonder how many drivers trulli is going to get KERSed by at the start
Hey Keith
you need to update for Glock to start from pitlane if he races- he also needs a new car like Webbo………
I’m waiting for official information on that.
kovi is looking good with his fuel weight following the grid penalties
Might have to change his gearbox though. If not he will be in a strong position, very ironic as he only has so much fuel on board because he crashed at the beginning of Q3!
I’ve worked it out and the grid should be:
S.Vettel
J.Trulli
L.Hamilton
N.Heidfeld
K.Raikkonen
N.Rosberg
R.Kubica
J.Alguersari
A.Sutil
R.Barrcihello
G.Fisichella
J.Button
K.Nakajima
H.Kovalainen
S.Buemi
R.Grosjean
F.Alonso
V.Liuzzi
T.Glock
M.Webber
Kovi to move back 5 places for gearbox change ??
So says Pitpass
Confusion over the proper order stems from the fact that you have to add the penalties in the order they were issued: the yellow-flaggers, then Glock, then Kovalainen.
I have worked out the following grid:
1. Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull
2. Jarno Trulli, Toyota
3. Lewis Hamilton, McLaren
4. Nick Heidfeld, BMW Sauber
5. Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari
6. Nico Rosberg, Williams
7. Robert Kubica, BMW Sauber
8. Adrian Sutil, Force India (Pen)
9. Rubens Barrichello, Brawn GP (Pen)
10. Jaime Alguersuari, Toro Rosso
11. Heikki Kovalainen, McLaren
12. Jenson Button, Brawn GP (Pen)
13. Giancarlo Fisichella, Ferrari
14. Sebastien Buemi, Toro Rosso (Pen)
15. Kazuki Nakajima, Williams
16. Romain Grosjean, Renault
17. Fernando Alonso, Renault (Pen)
18. Vitantonio Liuzzi, Force India
19. Timo Glock, Toyota (Pitlane)
20. Mark Webber, Red Bull (Pitlane)
Jenson Button, Rubens Barrichello, Adrian Sutil, Fernando Alono – penalties for failing to slow adequately (if at all) under yellow flags
Sebastien Buemi – penalty for impeding other cars and causing a potential hazard to other drivers
Heikki Kovalainen – penalty for a gearbox change
Timo Glock & Mark Webber – will start from the pitlane because they have had new chassis
Yellow penalties were applied as follows:
1st – Fernando Alonso (17:52)
2nd – Rubens Barrichello (18:05)
3rd – Jenson Button (18:07)
4th – Adrian Sutil (18:08)
5th – Sebastien Buemi (19:18)
Button will be having a tough time, starting in front of KERS-equiped Giancarlo and Heikki
very good point. in terms of the champ lets hope he gets eaten up!
The strange thing is that Alonso said on TV that he actually saw the flag and slowed down, as proved by his time and by his failure to get on Q3. The others did not, entered Q3 and will start in better positions despite not obeying the yellow flag.
I wouldn’t say that’s consistent…
If Alonso did back off then that is pretty unreasonable but excluding that I think the decision to hand out punishments was right.
I don’t think Kobayashi should be granted permission to race; no-one stood in for Ferrari in Hungary.
Yeah, but nobody else had done the practise sessions at Hungary for Ferrari so it left them with little choice. Ferrari chose not to ask for force majeure. Here, Toyota were anticipating Glock’s absence anyway (unfortunately it seems it may come for a different reason now). But Kobayashi has already done the friday running so if Toyota do choose to ask for force majeure, they may be granted permission.
On a side note – I’ve just read that they aren’t going to publish the final grid until tomorrow, so everything is still provisional.
I know Ferrari never had anyone in at practice and it’s unfortunate for Toyota but Glock was the one in qualifying not Kobayashi
Ferrari haven’t even tried to put their reserve driver in the seat. After we saw how Badoer was doing they have made a good choice
Confusion reigns!
Not just here, but in the Suzuka Press Office.
The FIA have annouced that the grid will be resolved in the morning, with the penalties applied in the order they were issued. It seems there is some contention over precisely when Glock and Kovalainen received theirs.
In what order do they start from pits, if there are more drivers (let’s say there will be KOB and WEB tomorrow). Who leaves the pits first, KOB or WEB?
yellow-colored and all other flags should be obligatorily displayed also in the driver’s steering wheel…
I though red and yellow flags already were. . .
dunno actually, but for what alonso has alleged (dust) it looks like the only way he had to see the flag was by looking to the lights on the track…
what do you know about it, keith?
So, I go up at 7 AM on a Saturday to watch quali only to now be informed that the actual grid will be presented on Sunday before the race. Thanks again FIA for nothing.
Here is the CONFIRMED grid for tomorrow from http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-source-confirms-adjusted-suzuka-grid/
1 Vettel
2 Trulli
3 Hamilton
4 Heidfeld
5 Raikkonen
6 Barrichello
7 Sutil
8 Rosberg
9 Button
10 Kubica
11 Kovalainen
12 Buemi
13 Alguersuari
14 Fisichella
15 Nakajima
16 Alonso
17 Grosjean
18 Liuzzi
Pit lane: Webber
Those are lot of stars hehe… what a packed Quali that was… shame about the penalties, but i think it will give an extra spinner to the championship battle…
Glock will not be starting, according to Adam Cooper: http://twitter.com/adamcooperf1/statuses/4582636757
why is Barichello 6th now???!!!
OK I’ve taken another look at the grid given the order in which the penalties came out.
Oddly, it now seems Barrichello will start sixth, ahead of Sutil (because of the order in which the penalties were applied) and actually only losing one place, not five. He is now three places ahead of Button, instead of two.
You have to ask what is the point of giving someone a five-place grid penalty which works out as only moving them back one place.
The grid above broadly agrees with that which Adam Cooper has had confirmed by an ‘FIA source’. However he has Buemi and Kovalainen behind Kubica – I think they will start ahead of them.
how reliable is Adam Cooper? who is he?
He’s a journalist who writes for Autosport.
reliable then. read it second to this site every day.
I don’t understand Barrichello’s punishment (or maybe it’s a reward) at all, mind stewards’ decisions are baffling a lot of the time. If a close championship is their priority then it is positive in that way, but that is the only good thing.
amazing!, changes and more changes!
So Barichello speeds through a dangerous situation and will only lose one place. Kubica slows down for the yellow, sacrificing his place in Q3, yet only gains one place.
Lesson: If everyone else is ignoring yellow flags, then you should ignore them too.
Sad, but true…
There is also Rosberg who obeyed the flags and gained 3 places. What is the source on times penalties were given?
http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Pages/on_event.aspx
what can the stewards do, nearly all drivers behing him also got penalties.
‘There is some confusing as to‘ (second line)
sorry to point it out keith, should be ‘confusion’ of course.
Sorry, lack of sleep!
Regulations say: “grid position penalties will be applied to the drivers in question in the order the offences were committed”
So i think BUEMI “offence” has to be settled after Alonso’s and BEFORE BARRICHELLO, BUTTON, SUTIL etc….
That’s my Grid: http://www.betpusher.com/formula1-suzuka-la-nuova-ipotetica-griglia-di-partenza-cambiano-gli-scenari-di-gioco/
bye
I think the key here is that the penalties should affect the grid in the order that the offences occurred, rather than in the order that the decisions were made.
I have no idea if that’s what will happen, but if sense prevails (does it ever?) I should imagine the grid will reflect that in the morning.
is that i wanted to say.. if i speed under the Buemi’s yellow flag, Buemi has to be penalized for first…
Confirmation , as if we needed, that the circus of F1 controlled by Bernie and Moseley has finally become a complete farce. Serious changes needed if this sport is to survive other than a media and money go round. Have been watching since 1962 and have never seen such a pathetic demise in a proud wonderful exciting sport. As long as money and egos are put ahead of passion and engineering this will continue. At least the drivers are safer and that truly is a great achievment. But the rest of the petty stuff is a loss to us all.
does anyone agree with me that Qualifying has become really interesting this year? and action packed. lovin this thing atm!
I think it’s just that the races haven’t been very good – but this was an unusually action-packed qualifying session!
speeding through the yellow flag (or not backing off at all) should mean that the times should not be counted, barrichello and button both got into Q3 by doing it and then were able to do another flying lap once the session started again,
they gained places as they should have been knocked out in Q2 for deciding to leave it to the last minute.
Start Grid with final or declared car weights.
Vettel – Red Bull Racing-Renault – 658.5kg (1st)
Trulli – Toyota – 655.5kg (2nd)
Hamilton – McLaren-Mercedes – 656.0kg (3rd)
Heidfeld – BMW-Sauber – 660.0kg (4th)
Raikkonen – Ferrari – 661.0kg (5th)
Rosberg – Williams-Toyota – 684.5kg (6th)
Kubica – BMW-Sauber 686.0kg (7th)
Sutil – Force India-Ferrari – 650.0kg (8th)
Barrichello – Brawn GP-Mercedes – 660.5kg (9th)
Alguersuari – Scuderia Toro Rosso-Ferrari – 682.5kg (10th)
Button – Brawn GP-Mercedes – 658.5kg (11th)
Fisichella – Ferrari – 661.5kg (12th)
Kovalainen – McLaren-Mercedes – 675.0kg (13th)
Buemi – Scuderia Toro Rosso-Ferrari – 665.4kg (14th)
Nakajima – Williams-Toyota – 695.7kg (15th)
Grosjean – Renault – 691.8kg (16th)
Alonso – Renault – 689.5kg (17th)
Liuzzi – Force India-Ferrari – 682.5kg (18th)
Glock – Toyota – N/A (19th)
Webber – Red Bull Racing-Renault – N/A (20th)
Note Button has less fuel than Barrichello and same as Vettel!!
This is the newgrid as poted by Autosport:
Vettel
Trulli
Hamilton
Heidfeld
Raikkonen
Barrichello
Rosberg
Suil
Kubica
Button
Kovalainen
Alguersuri
Buemi
Fisicella
Nakajima
Alonso
Grosjean
Liuzzi
Webber
Glock
This is reflected on the Formula1.com site
Penalties were added in the order the infringements occurred, whch is why Barichello is so far ahead of Button: the championship leader was speeding in the yellows after Barrichello was.
Personally, I think this is stupid: Barrichello effectivel receives a one-place penalty because of the way all the others fall.
How it is stupid?
Suppose all drivers received 5 place grid drop. No one will lose a place effectively. What could the stewards do about it?
Well, for one, the unspoken effect is that the championship battle is blown wide open since there’s a heavy Rosberg and Kubica between Button and Barrichello. And Vettel, of course.
is that i wanted to say.. if i speed under the Buemi’s yellow flag, Buemi has to be penalized for first…