Mercedes Grand Prix take over Brawn for 2010 – but what about Jenson Button?
Mercedes' illustration of its likely 2010 F1 car livery
Mercedes has announced it is taking over Brawn GP and rebranding it Mercedes Grand Prix for 2010.
But it remains to be seen whether they will keep world champion Jenson Button in the team.
They are expected to bring in Nico Rosberg and may partner him with a second German driver – possibly Nick Heidfeld.
Button is tipped to move to McLaren – who he visited on Friday – to join Lewis Hamilton in an all-British line-up.
Mercedes will take a 75% share in Brawn. In May I wrote how appealing the idea of a Brawn deal was for Mercedes. Two months ago reports emerged that a deal was on the cards for 2011. That now seems to have been brought forward.
The deal, which sees Mercedes shifting their stake from McLaren to Brawn, should guarantee the future of the team which was sold by Honda almost 12 months ago.
McLaren and Mercedes worked closely together on and off the track after Mercedes became an engine supplier to the F1 team in 1995. The two developed the Mercedes SLR McLaren which was built at the McLaren Technology Centre.
But now Mercedes has used in-house tuners AMG to build its replacement – the SLS – and McLaren has developed a supercar of its own – the MP4-12C.
Expect the 2010 Mercedes F1 car to take on the silver colouring that’s been associated with McLaren since 1997 (see illustration above). It will be the first time Mercedes has run its own F1 team since 1955 when it had a British driver in its line-up – Stirling Moss.
McLaren could return to their historic orange colour scheme. Mercedes’ press release, reproduced in full below, says:
The change to the form of co-operation is taking place by mutual agreement. Mercedes-Benz and McLaren will continue to co-operate with each other and the supply of engines could continue until 2015.
Is this the sad loss of a giant-killing independent team, or a welcome vote of confidence from a major manufacturer? And how would Hamilton and Button fare as team mates? Have your say in the comments.
Mercedes take over Brawn
- 2010 F1 drivers and teams
- McLaren MP4-12C road car revealed
- Mercedes should put a sticker on this car
- Mercedes to take 75% stake in Brawn – but what does that mean for McLaren?
Press release
I think it might be the end of the winning ways for Ross if he is not let to do his job right.
A with regard to Lewis and Jenson I think that Jenson will be #2 from every point of view.
Button has a difficult decision to make now. He can either go to Mclaren and play second fiddle to Hamilton, or to Mercedes, who I could envisage favouring Rosberg.
Button would get destroyed by Hamilton, simple as that, but I don’t rate Rosberg all that highly so perhaps Mercedes would be the better option
But at least at McLaren Button would be getting paid a lot more, so for him it’s the best of a bad situation. And straight after winning the WDC too!
i don’t think they’d favour Rosberg at mercedes if button stayed. it’s the same brawn gp team from this year with the same staff. they love jenson!
ok there may be a few staff from germany wandering around…
Seriously, it’s time for Raikkonen to hook up with the new Benz team now.
Yeah I agree,now he can get his Huge Wage and(possibly) a proper winning car.
Eh ? If they are not prepared to pay Button the relative pittance he asked for they are not going to come anywhere near Raikkonens wage demands are they ?!
I’d put a good chance on Brawn/MB having a fast car next year – they started developing the 2010 car way back in summer, at least as early as Ferrari and probably way, way before Red Bull. If Mercedes is serious about competing with the big boys they’re going to need more than a Rosberg/Heidfeld combo.
Mercedes are going to be expected to do well next season because they are following on from what work has already been done by the Brawn team, and since they are a larger more financially sound team then they will have more money to invest into RnD into the car. Whilst McLaren who have told us that they have been doing alot of work on the 2010 car which is already quicker than the 2009 car at Bahrain. So personally Mercedes having an all German line up and McLaren having a all British line up would cause a very good season, two very good teams with fast cars and fast drivers throw in some Ferraris, and no refueling then I’m buzzing already with excitement.
If button joins Merc then this would be going against of what he said that he would want to go with a car that would give him the best chance of another shot at world champion then is it not the best idea for him to stray away from merc because he will have more chance with mclaren.
how ever if button went to mclaren he would have the number 1 on his car and lewis would have the number 2, i think we all remember what lewis did to his last team mate who had number 1
A Button move to McLaren would put him at car number 1 and Hamilton as 2 – who would have imagined that a year ago!?
The problem Jenson now faces is similar to Jacques before him: a change of regime within the team which could see him out of favour.
Jacques was the golden boy of his manager and BAR team boss Craig Pollock. When he departed, Jenson became the golden boy of the new Dave Richards/Nick Fry management team and Villeneuve was shown the door soon after. And so with Brawn/Mercedes in control now, it does not dictate that Button will remain in that position either.
I would imagine that Brawn/Merecedes are looking at Vettel in the long term (and/or Hulkenberg if he impresses) as neither will have been impressed with Button’s protracted wrap up to the title this year.
Mercedes will want a high quality German having failed to get Schumacher into a McLaren back in the day, whilst Brawn liked working with Michael at Ferrari and would like a driver of similar calibre.
If Jenson’s ego can accept being a #2 to Hamilton at McLaren then it could be a mutually beneficial long-term partnership. McLaren were happy with driver stability in the form of Hakkinen and Coulthard after all. The latter being fast enough to keep the former on his toes, but not enough of a threat to disturb him.
Great judgement. I believe (though I could be wrong) that Button is by no means a “World Champion calibre driver”. It’s the new rules and the early superiority of the Brawn machinery that gave Button the championship. Vettel certainly makes sense in the long term as does Hulkenberg (depending on his performance). But Heidfeld, no. Maybe he can stay on till Vettel is freed from his current Red Bull contract. But I thought Mercedes would be interested in securing the services of the Iceman, Kimi Raikkonen.
It says in the Mclaren statement that they will keep their livery – wonder what Brawn’s will be then to avoid a clash?
….and I just got excited about them going back to orange.
Yes, but having reflective (or even white) livery at hot, sunny races must present a small, but probably still significant, heat benefit.
They may not bother? Remember last seasons Force India, which if it wasnt for the blatent lack of pace, was easily confused with the Mclaren.
Nick Heidfeld as second driver.
Wow, could Mercedes have screwed up the driver choice any more? They’re going to SUCK.
You’d think they’d do everything in their power to get the incumbent World Champion.
I’d put Heidfeld in. I think he’s as good as Button
If not better
This is crazy- Heidfeld has just gone from the most underrated driver in F1 to the most overrated! I think he’s a good driver, and he deserves a big chance for a change, but he isn’t quite top drawer material
Spot on.
I don’t see him making the top step very often.
However….let’s just zoom back twelve months and pretend this debate is taking place in November 2008….. Jenson Button for 2009
WDC….. in your dreams mate…… !
They don’t need a top driver in Heidfeld… they need a second driver with experience for Nico, he will be No. 1 at Merc
Seconded. He’d be a better partner for Hamilton as well.
Hmmm, Jenson Button, 2009 World Champion with seven victories to his name.
Nick Heidfeld, he German guy no-one can remember with no race wins and no championships.
Really, Meredes should do everything in their power to keep Button. Even if they only want him because he’ll have the number one on the car. Because without them, they’ll be doomed to carry the 25 and 26 …
If Heidfeld was in the Brawn he’d have 7 wins to his name.
Heidfeld beat Massa, Kimi, Webber, Kubica and has never been in a top team
I think you are all Crazy people (in the nicest possible way).
With respect where was NH last year when RK was fighting for the championship throughout the season? Grumpy, inconsistent and over rated IMHO.
I do think that is dreadful the way Brawn and Mercedez have treated JB. He gave up a lot for that team and now it seems he’s to be dismissed out of hand.
Personally I would LOVE to see JB and LH at McLaren next year. Sure if it came down to the numbers LH would have a team preference but until then they would be allowed to fight for the championships. I think technically you couldn’t ask for more. One driving style is all gung ho aggression and the other fluid and smooth. McLaren could clean up because of the two differing styles.
While I wouldn’t rank Heidfeld in the top tier of current F1 drivers, I don’t think he is a bad driver. Before this season I would probably have ranked him in the same group as Button, Webber, Rosberg and some others.
I understand why some may rate Kubica higher than Heidfeld because of where they are at in their careers so the argument would be Kubica has more potential, but even so he hasn’t blown Heidfeld away while they were teamates, if Heidfeld hadn’t let Kubica through in Canada Heidfeld would have probably won the race, and a lot of Heidfelds problems last year were issues he had with qualifying, his race pace was good, sort of like Button in the latter half of this season.
You said it Tommy!I can’t understand how so many people overlook Heidfeld’s talent.He “for sure” could bring in the steady points if not win.
I think if Mercedes didn’t have Button next they would have the numbers 3 & 4 as reigning Constructors Champions as Renault did in 2007 after Alonso left, still I agree that you would have thought Mercedes would prefer the number 1 on their car.
If they lost Button, I don’t think they would be 2nd in pitlane, as when teams are taken over (like Brawn with Honda), they are sent down the pitlane.
I think it depends on how the takeover is classed, for example when BAR became Honda in 2006 they had the numbers 11 & 12.
When Stewart became Jaguar in 2000 Jaguar had the numbers 7 & 8, and then when Jaguar became Red Bull in 2005 they had the numbers 14 & 15.
I think when Honda left last year they had said they were withdrawing, so Brawn were effectively a new team although I think some concessions may have been made such as allowing them the TV money Honda would have received.
If Sauber are allowed to race next year this is probably what will happen to them as they had to reapply and so will probably be classed as a new team, whereas Brawn will still own part of the Mercedes team next season.
Brawn was sent down the pitlane because their entry got accepted as a “new team”. They had to do this because a team is only allowed to change its name every five years, and BAR became Honda in 2006, only three years before.
However, I don’t know if a new team may change their name earlier (see Stewart -> Jaguar) or if they only introduced this rule during this decade.
But if they will be sent down the pitlane and the teams continue their renaming/selling game over the winter, the new teams will get lower and lower numbers…I think USF1 (as the first accepted new entry) will already get 18&19….
I dont think that’s true, about the name change… see Jordan, Spyker, Midland and Force India, all that in about 4 or 5 years
Sorry to be picky but wouldn’t it be
26 & 27??
A year ago it would have been, hmm, Jenson Button, a British guy no one can remember with one sole win to his name.
I think Heidfeld is better than Button, okay Button may be a world champion now, but who knows what might have happened if he did join for this year when he had an offer..
Also in another post you said why hasn’t he ended up in a top car after 10 years? Well Button wasn’t picked up by a top team, Honda were one of the worst teams last year and no top team picked him up. He was fortunate that this years car was amazing.
Heidfeld has beaten Massa, Raikkonen, Webber and Kubica when they were his team mates. Heidfeld is a top quality driver and has deserved a race winning car for years.
I think Rosberg and Heidfeld will be a good line up, with Heidfeld to outscore Rosberg.
Massa: consistent challenger for title in 2007 and 2008.
Raikkonen: won plenty of races for McLaren, 2007 World Champion.
Webber: quarterbacking Red Bull’s efforts.
Kubica: … Okay, I’ll give you that one. But Kubica broke his duck well before Heidfeld.
Heidfeld is nowhere. Drivers don’t get good cars because they’ve been in the sport for a long time. They get good cars because they’ve shown themselves as talented drivers. If Heidfeld was half as good as you made him out to be, he’d have been taken on to McLaren or Ferrari or even the 1005/6 Renaults a long time ago. It’s pretty telling that he isn’t anywhere. Plus, there’s nothing he can offer Mercedes that Button can’t bettr.
“But Kubica broke his duck well before Heidfeld.”
Anyone who remembers anything about that race in Canada will know that Kubica only won because Heidfeld let him past for a team 1-2. If Heidfeld had kept Kubica behind as he had done to Alonso he would have won the Grand Prix.
“Drivers don’t get good cars because they’ve been in the sport for a long time.”
No they get them because they’ve shown they deserve them, Heidfeld has clearly done that by beating every team mate he has come up against, including the highly (over)rated Kubica. People have underestimated Heidfeld for far too long and it would be poetic justice if he got a race winning car in a Mercedes team whilst Renault produce another dog for Kubica.
Then why hasn’t he ended up in a good car in ten years? And what does he bring that Jenson Button can’t offer?
I admit, it would be delightfully ironic if both Button and Heidfeld ended up in Mercedes …
Agreed, PM. Heidfeld is getting too much credit. Being around for a long time doesn’t warrant a drive with a top team (I know we’d all like to forget Luca Badoer, but as the cliche goes, those who do not remember history…). They’re mad to let Button get away in the first place, but if an all-German lineup is their aim, Glock would’ve been the better choice, I think. He’s got qualifying issues, but he’s one hell of a fighter, and he may not have any wins, but unlike BMW, no other driver ever got a win out of a Toyota, either.
Who could honestly say that Button is better than Heidfield before this season.
All it takes is one good season with a good car to change your reputation.
Indeed, look at Massa. The guy had one reasonable season where he narrowly missed the WDC in teh fastest car. Now all of a sudden he’s supposed to be a top driver.
Heidfeld has always been a good driver, but has the bad fortune of not being the best. Just like Button and Kubica I guess. They normally don’t get top material, but just below that. Obviously Button got lucky and he could show that he at least is a very good driver. Still not the top, but at least significantly better than Vettel, Barrichello and Webber.
I’m late for the debate
Heidfeld definately underrated mainly because of his personality I feel. He may be a crazy dancer but he is quite quiet and so is often overlooked.
He has beaten many rated drivers as teammates (I don’t read to much into Massa and Kimi as they were relatively new to f1 but the fact is he has beaten Kubica which says a lot) and has had some nice ontrack battles. He deserves the drive in my opinion
Ross Brawn tried to sign Heidfeld for this year but Heidfeld turned him down so they stuck with Barrichello
Won’t Mercedes have 22&23 or something similar as ‘Brawn’ are the constructors champions and not ‘Mercedes GP?’
the No1 plate goes with the driver not the team
I think you guys are missing the point. Surely Jenson was waiting for this announcement so that he can cash-in big on a massive Mercedes salary?
Yer thats what i thought as well, thats why I was talking of Heidfeld going to ‘a mercedes team.’ Although apparently Mercedes GP aren’t interested in Button and would rather have the German super team of Heidfeld and Rosberg.
Pish. The idea that a prestigious factory team (as Mercedes GP will be) is not interested in a smart, marketable, reigning champion is preposterous.
‘Und now we will all stand to attention and sing Deutchland Uber Alles’
I certainly wouldnt call Rosberg and Heidfeld a “german super team”. Neither have even won a race.
The webpage title says: “Jenson Button out of Brawn | Mercedes buy team”
The title of this post says: “Mercedes Grand Prix take over Brawn for 2010 – but what about Jenson Button?”
The text of the post says: “But it remains to be seen whether they will keep world champion Jenson Button in the team.”
Only 2 of the 3 are well-aligned.
Fascinating stuff.
Very interesting developments…however under no circumstances will the colour scheme be Orange…I would imagine Vodafone would have a small problem with that!!:-)
Watch Roseberg go, he’s v.fast & must now shine if he gets even a decent package.
Great news for McLaren, bring it on Lewis & the other guy!! Go Woking..
Gmac, It would appear that Rosberg wasted his chances with the Williams car, which was very good, The brawn car had little development in the second half of the season, and it was by no means the class of the field, Brawn will not get a golden opportunity twice with some clever loophole, so it will be down to Rosberg to shine. it would appear that the team bosses are not that impressed with Button, it is beginning to look like the way Hill, and Mansell before him, were treated after they became champions.
I’ve never heard such guff. Brawn & Co are not impressed with Button?! Williams had a very good car?!
For your information, Williams had planned to replace Damon Hill before he became champion, not t’other way round.
Furthermore, Brawn’s team will continue to impress. They have a great team and that doesn’t change no matter what the rules say. Understandably they might not have such a huge advantage at the beginning of 2010, but that doesn’t mean they will wither to Honda 2008-esque performances either.
Oh sorry Nitpicker, Just my opinion, It’s no longer Brawns team, they may impress with the kind of support that Mercedes can bring, but it will be the ‘Mercedes’ team. Hey I thought Williams had a good car, Rosberg had some great quali laps, and race laps, he made some errors which cost him some great finishes, so did the team. We only know what the media tell us, and what ghost writers put in print, replacing Hill may well have been on the cards prior to his championship, but I would’nt call it a fact. Williams was noted for his contempt toward his drivers, Mansell certainly found out very publicly, so as I am being fed all this media about Button, and his lack of contract, with anyone, rightly or wrongly I think he is either too dear, or that there are better options for team bosses, I know this ‘guff’ to be true,’cos the media say so…..lol.
So will both the McLaren and MercedesGP cars be silver?
McLaren: Silver and rocket red/McLaren orange,
Brawn: Silver and lime green/yellow?
Silver and lime green/yellow… is it just me or is that a vomit inducing thought?!?
A better looking scheme would be the Group C Sauber cars of the late 1980s…
I could see the Mclaren’s being all Vodafone red now, though I like their current livery. And I think it’s safe to say that Mercedes will be all silver/ grey, I think the green will be consigned to the dustbin (where it belongs!)
Actually forget that, I just read this on autosport.com:
I am glad McLaren are keeping their current livery as it is one of my favourites, but if McLaren were to change their livery don’t you think an all red Vodafone car would be too similar to Ferrari’s livery for McLaren, and obviously an Orange car wouldn’t work while Vodafone was title sponsor.
Good point, but if Mclarens were ever red it would probably be more of a day- glo, orangey red than Ferraris scarlet.
I can’t wait for the launches, there should be so many new liveries
Yep, i dont think they’ll change, the reason i say that is that Autosport is a crap source and I would not trust them with anything after some of the balls ups they’ve had over the last 5 years.
That aside, if they wanted to go to Orange I’m sure they could but how it would work with the Vodafone sponsorship is hard to imagine.
People will moan about losing a British team but the fact is that Brawn GP could not survive as an independent. They only did so well in 2009 because of the Honda money and resources and they would soon slip down the grid if they stayed fully independent.
I still think Button will stay with them and will be joined by Rosberg.
yes, because being bought out by a car manufacturer is guaranteeing survival.
until they get bored and close the team down of course
hear hear Michael
Ditto.
Not that I dont agree with the first bit of the post but do you not think ‘until they get bored’ is a bit harsh? I mean Toyota have been consistently rubbish but stuck with the sport until filing losses that would ruin a country! Honda same story.
McLaren F1 TEAM! Cool indeed. Paint the car rocket red please! Also, Lewis & Jenson pair would be great!
Nah the car should be painted Spitfire colours with RAF Circles and everything
“but what about Jenson Button?”
You sound like Legard Keith!
i think that the jensen/lewis situation would not be good for button as lewis is the golden boy. i also think alonso will win next year – best driver, best car
At the moment it doesn’t look like Ferrari will have the best car … considering they will be developments of the season just passed.
If anything McLaren look promising, they will still be running the Mercedes engine too.
Actually Ferrari has had to fundamentally redesign the car, starting from scratch, because the F60 was such a dog. But that isnt to say it will be good.
LOL! – “So it’s Mercedes from Brawn from Honda and Button’s got the championship at the minute, but will it be enough?”
That would be funny if it had not just reminded me of how painful it is to listen to the man.
Intriguing stuff. I’d love to see McLaren go back to the red and white livery like the old Malboro days
Nah Red White and Blue Union Jack styleeee and whoop the Silver Arrows butts
….. or thinking about it all Red then the RED Arrows could whoop the Silver Arrows butts !!
I would prefer the orange livery, like the test car they had… cool livery
I hope Mclaren go Red and White – classic livery.
I really hope Heidfeld gets a top drive, he deserves it. He hasn’t even won a race and he’s beaten Massa, Webber, Kimi and Kubica
I hope they go for eithter rocket red/orange, or otherwise have a British racing green livery.
They are McLaren and should be orange with Black highlights, as it were.
But they won’t be, which makes me sad.
I’m just worried about Kimi. It doesn’t look too good at the moment. It would be great to have him at Mercedes GP with Nico.
what if they unglue Vettel from red bull and red bull put skimi in their car?
skimi = kimi
Unlikely. Vettel is closely linked to Red Bull after they groomed him through the lower formulae. Vettel is also a star driver, Red Bull had the best car at the end of 2009, so the chances of them separating are remote.
Yeah, exactly the same here… F1 just wouldn’t be the same without Kimi for me.
As a Button fan I would like to see Button to stay at Brawn/Merc GP. Because McLaren is Hamilton’s team, and Button will without a doubt be Hamilton’s #2. This would not end well.
Button would be silly to go to a team that is built around 1 driver… but what other choice does he have?
How is McLaren “built around 1 driver”? It sure wasn’t built around Alonso in 2007, or around Häkkinen during his tenure there, or around Prost when Senna arrived. If Button would join McLaren for 2010, and he would be able to beat Hamilton, I bet the team would let him. And rightly so.
Exactly, if McLaren develop the car somewhere between the 2 styles, so that Jenson can dial out any oversteer tendancies to have the neutral handling car he seems to prefer, and Lewis can dial in oversteer as he suits, then we should see a formidible combination and a fair fight to the flag.
Who do I think would win, I’d love to say Button, but I don’t know to be honest. I do think however it would be very close, closer than a lot of people think.
History shows that McLaren have always favoured one driver – Prost>Lauda Senna>Prost Hakkinen>Coulthard, Hamilton>Kovalianen. [Although it could be argued that that was the "Ron" influence]
Hamilton has been at the team for the best part of a decade, he knows the staff and they know him. Quite simply, Button should have shelved his wage demands, been grateful that he landed in a great car and now he’d have a guaranteed seat at a well-backed team with highly competent staff.
Mercedes will be built around Rosberg. Button is going to be #2 wherever he goes.
the best point in the thread.
Agreed.
I think you’re right, but Merc would be less built around Rosberg than McLaren is around Lewis.
I’d like to see Button stay at Brawn/Merc and end all this mystifying ‘Rosberg is a future champion’ talk.
good for brawn. their car will still be competitive. however, i DON’T want to see Button and Hamilton in the same team. anyway, will be interesting to see who comes out on top… i’d bet on Hamilton.
I would have preferred for Brawn to have more of a chance to make a name for itself. Instead of being swallowed up by a huge name. (irrespective of the success Mercedes has had)
On the other hand it sounds interesting to see how Mclaren re-establishes itself as a true independent, assuming of course that they intend to do so.
Yes I was hoping we’d see another battle of the independents in 2010.
Odd to think that McLaren has been known as the ‘factory Mercedes team’ for 14 years now, and soon they will become an independent team again.
Strange things…
Honda has become Mercedes in 2 years – wouldn’t have predicted that one!
Brawn came into F1, won the world championship and have left
The team name ‘Brawn’ was just a name. The team personnel won’t drastically change from 2008-2009-2010.
Mental isn’t it! In fact it only took one year- this time last year it was still Honda
Now THAT’s the best point in the thread!
So with Mercedes finally entering the sport as an actual constructor, what are the chances of BMW buying back in to compete? I would have to say quite high, given the rivalry between the two brands…
I would also say high too, as soon as they sort out some of their financial issues they will be back, could take a 2-5years though..
http://cdn.images.autosport.com/editorial/1258374109.jpg
Blech
cool…….
basically, here are these two teams, with good prospects for next year, and there are of course a bunch of drivers that are linked with both teams, 3 out of 4 seats still to be filled.
Heidfeld, Rosberg, Räikkönen, Button – linked with both Brawn and McLaren, but one of them has to pick another team, as Hamilton occupies his place. i’m just eagerly waiting what’s gonna happen.
I predict Button gets a much better offer from Mercedes and stays there (x-Brawn team that is).
Awful news.
I presume mercedes gp will still be based at the Brackley factory, which is only 5 miles from me?
It’s a bit of a shame that Brawn won’t defend their title although it’s kinda cool to have a “works” Mercedes team.
Now, statistically wise, is Mercedes a new team and Brawn has become a “former team”? This would mean that Mercedes stats and numbers would be reseted to zero and Brawn would be frozen in history. Or will they keep their numbers from the 1950′?
Or is it just a rebranding and the Mercedes GP will keep the stats and numbers of Brawn GP? If so, will Mercedes run the number 3 and 4 cars if they don’t sign Button?
I know it is statistic ********, but I like this stuff
I still dunno why my description of Eddie Irvine isn’t being accepted by Keith
Just ask Ayrton Senna what he made of him!
That is quite funny. Irvine sounds far too composed, so the whole thing must be made up.
I welcome this news and find it quite exciting. A works Mercedes team, adding a manufacturer back into the mix after Toyota pulled out, a manufacturer-friendly but ever-more independent McLaren becoming the British Ferrari, and best of all, the Maccas will stay silver!
The silver Brawn looks pretty awesome too.
Mercedes GP, wow! can’t wait to see how they gonna do next year
I hope they put Kimi in the car, if not Nico
exciting stuff
i wish they’d just call it Mercedes. not ‘Mercedes F1 Team’ or ‘Mercedes GP’. we dont hear ‘Ferrari GP’!
Although I congenitally loathe McLaren, it would be interesting to see Lewis and Jenson as teammates. The general consensus seems to be that Lewis would be eating Jenson’s lunch on every occasion, but I’m not so sure — I can see it being more of a Prost-Senna arrangement, with Lewis winning with raw pace, and Jenson taking wins with race-craft and points consistency.
When was the last all-British team (two drivers and team) by the way? Racking my brain but can’t come up with it.
But as many have said, I can’t think that anyone would want to step into Lewis’s team and hope to race on equal terms. For all Martin Whitmarsh’s twaddle about their drivers always being treated absolutely equally, it seems inconceivable that they haven’t promised the golden boy that they have been cultivating for the past decade that when it comes down to it, he will always have first access to development parts etc. Can’t imagine Jenson would feel comfortable in that situation. Then again, if Mercedes is preferencing Rosberg and shutting him out for not being German enough, he’s unlikely to feel very comfortable there either. Tough situation.
Jenson and Rubens, Williams 2011! There’s the solution!
For one race in 2005 BAR had Button and Davidson as their drivers.
As far as a whole season goes, I guess it would be Irvine and Herbert at Jaguar in 2000.
Didn’t Damon Hill and Nigel Mansell race together at Williams for a few races at the end of the 1994 season? Coulthard stepped in after Senna was killed but was pushed aside after Mansell had won his Indycar championship and fancied some proper racing.
Keith, on a statistics’ note: does this news mean that the new ‘Mercedes Grand Prix’ team will have run as many as 12 Grands Prix, resulting in 8 pole positions, 9 fastest laps, 9 race wins, 139.14 WDC points, and as many as 0 (zero) WCC points?
I’m a bit saddened by this news. Ross Brawn and Nick Fry rescued their team from the ashes of Honda, turned them into World Champions, and then sold out to a big manufacturer. I’m so sad that Brawn are gone, they had a real “stick it to the big guys” attitude. Now they are going to be the big guys!
Also, if Jenson doesn’t sign for Mercedes GP and goes to McLaren, they won’t be able to run number 1 and 2. It’s quite a superficial thing, but it would have been nice to see the team that dominated the 2009 championship run with 1 and 2 in 2010. Also, Lewis, who would be the de facto number 1 in the team (regardless of what Martin Whitmarsh and the contracts say) would run in car number 2.
Also, if McLaren have Jenson and Lewis as their line-up for 2010, and Mercedes GP have Nico Rosberg and Nick Heidfeld, it won’t be long before the press turn the whole thing into an Anglo-German war!
Yeah! you are correct. We have daily mirror, guardian & the rest of the rubbish. They have BILD and the others
It’s a bit odd. Mercedes want the German drivers to represent them but are really an internation company recognised around the world for road cars.
Mclaren privateer and very British so a British line up makes sense in that way. However, Mclaren also need to expand and get money from other outlets and sponsors and a British line up will just isolate them I feel. Not only that but a Kimi Lewis pairing would be much stronger in my view.
Will some of you people calm down! Brawn arn’t going anywhere just because Merc have bought a majority stake; the rosy independent constructor idea may have gone but the team have not. Have people forgotten that this year Brawn were still Honda, albeit sans a few hundred personnel.
Financially speaking, Brawn may have survived for maybe next year or 2011 if it stayed as a privateer, but over the long run, they need the resources only a manufacturer can bring.
Remember that even when it looked like they were running away with the championships earlier this year, they still had difficulty getting sponsors on board. Even some of the sponsors (e.g. Canon) were one-race deals, and Branson has changed his allegiance to Manor since…
They did great to win both world championships this year, but I would hardly say they ‘dominated’ by winning the drivers’ by 11 points and the constructors’ by 18.5 points.
McLaren in 1988: that was domination. So to speak.
So after one season and winning both Championships the team name Brawn will disappear after only year in F1.
I would have preferred it if to start with at least the deal with Brawn was the same as the one with McLaren so we would have McLaren Mercedes and Brawn Mercedes, but I suppose from a business point of view it wouldn’t make much sense for Mercedes to own minority stakes in two teams.
If Mercedes relationship with Brawn is more to how it was with McLaren, supplying money and resources but letting Brawn run the show I see no reason why they can’t continue to be competitive, but if Mercedes try to interfere too much it could be a mistake.
I am glad McLaren are due to keep their Silver/Red livery as it is one of my favourites, if they had decided to ditch it then the colour would probably be largely dependent on sponsors so having an orange car with Vodafone as your title sponsor would never happen.
If I am Mclaren, I would grab Rosberg. Not wise to have 2 British driver in a single team in terms of PR. You would like to have 2 different drivers to promote 2 different region and demographic. Button and Hamilton are too similar, and the same case for Rosberg and Heidfeld.
It make more sense to mix the 2 together. I seriously have double in Heifield. Kovalainen would be a nicer choice than Heidfeld.
What about Kimi and Button for Merc GP? and Hamilton and Rosberg for Mclaren? Maybe it sounds too ideal….
Anyhow, I just want to know asap!!!
If I am Mclaren, I would grab Rosberg. Not wise to have 2 British driver in a single team in terms of PR. You would like to have 2 different drivers to promote 2 different regions and demographics. Button and Hamilton are too similar, and the same case for Rosberg and Heidfeld.
It make more sense to mix the 2 together. I seriously have double in Heifield. Kovalainen would be a nicer choice than Heidfeld.
What about Kimi and Button for Merc GP? and Hamilton and Rosberg for Mclaren? Maybe it sounds too ideal….
Anyhow, I just want to know asap!!!
It looks to me as if Ross Brawn and Nick Fry are going to have to look elsewhere if they want to run their own team again. If the new outfit is going to be branded as ‘Mercedes’ then Norbert and his cronies are going to be in control and looking for those to blame when it all goes wrong.
You would have thought that Mercedes had learnt the lessons of BMW, Toyota and Renault this year, and purely stuck to being engine suppliers, but maybe its ego-expanding time in Germany, just in time for the Christmas bonuses and they have decided to give Ferrari a reason to stay racing.
As for Button possibly moving to an independent Mclaren, I say go for it, as we will be able to compare our recent Champions in the same car, and their WAGS can have a good chat during the race too….
Actually, Brawn will remain as team principal.
For the time being………
I would say for a long time until Brawn himself gets bored and decides to leave.
Brawn is by far the smartest team principal and strategist in the f1 community.
So why has he given up the chance to be in complete control of his new team? It worked this year, so why not next year?
I can understand that to compete in F1 you need the cash, but why allow another company to own so much of what you have built up, and gained a reputation with? It won’t be the same with the Mercedes beanpickers and shareholders wanting their monies worth every single race. Look at how they affected McLaren’s performance, look at how Renault, BMW and Toyota have behaved towards their teams, look at the pressure Ferrari are always under.
This is a crazy move by Ross and Co. Its all downhill from here…..:(
This is not unexpected but all the same very significant. I see McLaren will continue with the Mercedes powerplant until 2015 but personally I hope there are many an opt out clauses for McLaren. I’m glad McLaren, like Williams with BMW, never gave in too Mercedes’s past ‘takeover’ advances.
Additionally, I hope Mercedes will stay the course unlike BMW, Toyota, and quite possibly Renault being that the weak and fickle management and executives of these companies are purely making business and strategic decisions, and have about as much racing blood in their bones as a wooden rocking horse.
I wonder who owns the balance of the shares i.e. Ross himself being that he is team Brawn? Now I guess that in effect makes Ross Brawn an employee of Mercedes which seems a shame and quite a turn around, but that’s life as they say. What a lovely little pocket earner for Ross too though…
Ross has to have made a lot of money out of this. Buying a team for a £1 (i know there was all the debts) and sold his shares as WDC and WCC. I dont think for one second that was his motivation. The man is a god when it comes to F1 in my view.
Seems to me Jenson is playing a dangerous game by not having signed to a team by now. I personally don’t think McLaren is the team for him as Lewis is younger with more years ahead of him and he is arguably a better driver. Additionally I don’t think it helps sponsors who may want to expand to other markets. I think Jenson should stick with the team formally known as Brawn as they are likely to be financially one of the big power houses on the grid with the likelihood of a good car.
Another though is I hope Lewis has an opt out clauses should the Mercedes engines not prove worth keeping.
Also, how long do we think it will be before Vettel joins MercedesF1. Lets have a vote…
Season 2011 maybe. For 2010 he’s to stay with RB for sure!
As for the driver line-ups, while neither team has an official No.1 driver policy, just because of both drivers history with the teams I would have said that McLaren was Hamilton’s team and what was Brawn was Button’s team. So it would be easier for the established driver at the team even if it was because they knew everyone at the team, how it worked and the characteristics of the car.
If he has the chance Button should stay at Mercedes as I just can’t see him consistently beating Hamilton if both were at McLaren, as for one thing the car will have been developed around Hamilton’s style of driving which won’t suit Button.
Personally I would like Button and Rosberg at Mercedes and Hamilton and Raikkonen at McLaren as long as it is the old fully motivated Raikkonen. But I wouldn’t mind Heidfeld in the other McLaren car if a deal couldn’t be reached with Raikkonen, as I think Heidfeld is underrated and would fit the bill as a reliable No.2 driver, Heidfeld would be the Coulthard to Hamilton’s Hakkinen/Raikkonen at McLaren.
Really?
Anybody else stop and think about how much money Ross Brawn and Nick Fry are probably pocketing from this deal? They bought the team for pennies, literally… And now they sold it to none other than Mercedes-Benz. Wow!!!
Mostly kimi will sit at home with the 18 million ferrari paid him……button will puppet hamilton in mclaren and rosberg and heidfeld will be in mer f1 team…..
Heidfeld is being used as a bargaining chip in negotiations: Raikkonen and Button are still in the best positions to get the McLaren and Mercedes drives, unless their negotiators get it wrong.
Rosberg will not be #1 driver – whoever is his team mate will get equal treatment.
A bargaining chip and a handy back up if either Button or Raikkonen fail to agree terms…
Muahahaha! Complete joke! Merc are shooting themselves in the legs. They will for sure, end up like BMW or Toyota. Manufactures imho must stick to supplying engines & leave the real racing to the real guys.
Poor McLaren
were supplied with engines suffering from asthma, but now after all these years of sputtering & coughing, merc finally deserts them, just cuz they have somehow managed to manufacture reliable engines?? Until 2006 merc engine was the most unreliable engine in F1. Kept blowing up every few feet. It is cuz of mercedes that mclaren potentially lost the titles in 2000,2003,2004,2005!!
I have proof to substantiate my (some would call it) “OUTRAGEOUS” claim
The McLaren Mercedes partner ship began in 1995, since then this is what has happened:
1995: Agreed that mp4-10 was “The” most horrible looking,handling car ever built. It was supposedly designed by a supercomp! That needle nose was horrible & Mansell couldn’t fit his ass into its cockpit! But you can excuse mclaren, cuz this was post Senna. People were trying out differnt noses, front wing, safety elements etc. But Merc kept blowing up.
1996: Saw some instability, Marlboro was leaving, DC came in, chassis was decent but no match for Adrian Newey’s FW18. But merc still kept blowing up.
1997; Stunning livery. Initial chassis was designed by Neil Oatley, later in the season it was improvised by Newey himself. Won 3 races, but lost at least & due to merc blowing up! Most notably at nurburgring with Mika in the lead.
1998: Superb chassis, Won bot WDC & WCC. But had a fair number of blow ups. So did ferrari, so it was nullified.
1999: Remember Melbourne ? Both Mika & DC retired whilst leading a 1-2, that too on consecutive laps
merc let them down on numerous occasions that season.
2000: How can you ever forget US Gp!!! It was a death blow to mclaren. Mika was leading both the championship & the race when the merc blew up!! McLaren never ever recovered from that. Another Case of merc letting down mclaren again.
2001: Remember spanish gp? make retired on the last corner with a blown engine, painful. merc let down mclaren in crucial situations that year.
2002: Kimi blew up on numerous occasions, most notably in spa. But that Merc was underpowered compared to BMW & Ferrari.
2003: Can we ever forget that merc blowing up during the race at nurburgring?? It was such a crucial race for Kimi, but merc blew up again. kimi never had a chance since then on, even though he finished only 2 points behind scummy in the WDC.
2004: I won’t even talk about it
just see for yourselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRrjq8F9EVY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogC1w_RAnxU ( after his engine had failed)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiKXCjMwamM
Also blew up at nurburgring, spain,monza
abysmal season. totally blame merc
2005: That year was destined to be McLaren’s & Kimi’s year.They had the most explosive combination in the form of Kimi & JPM. But merc had other plans
Most of the time, Kimi started with a 10 place grid penalty & was always compromised. That MP4-20 was a monster. But Merc….
2006: One word- UNDERPOWERED
2007,2008&2009: Merc find a cure to their engine related problems & decide to dump mclaren! Traitors!
In 15 years of their partner ship you can fault McLaren at most 2 times(95 &96) but even then, merc was probably underpowered & unreliable.
I think mercedes leaving McLaren would be the best to to happen to them in the long term.
Only three teams exist to race in Formula One:
McLaren
Ferrari
Williams
the rest are noobies
Apart from the fact Mclaren designed trucks in 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006 and 2009.
While talking about blow-ups, lets also talk about Mclaren pit crew screwing big time. Most notably in 2007.
Sorry, have to disagree Mahir. Adrian Newey was the technical director of McLaren during all those years that you’ve just mentioned. And we know how often he produces “Trucks”
Norbert Haug, himself has admitted to the fact that it was merc who’ve let down mclaren on numerous occasions.
I’m disputing that Merc failed too much. But come on, on those years Mclaren clearly wasnt up with Ferrari. Ok, they werent completely trucks but you,re compared to your rivals in F1.
you’re right about 2005 though, that year alone is enough for Mclaren to be fed up with Merc.
Lets see what Mclaren do with their own engine 2011 onwards.
Didn’t Ron Dennis once say he’d rather have a quick but unreliable car than the other way round (i.e: reliable slow car)?
Maybe this mentality pushed the engines into that risk zone that caused the failures. Maybe the engines were being pushed harder to compensate for chassis design?
Jacques Villeneuve said something similar in 1999 when asked about his BAR-Supertec’s unreliability and replied that it was easier to make a fast car reliable than to make a reliable car fast. There’s an element of truth in that, not that BAR scored so much as a single point in 1999…
Not sure if Ron also said it separately.
Indeed, you justified it really well
I would love to see McLaren in Orange costume next year… looks unlikely, though!
Right first off, and I probably shouldn’t say it as I’m not usually smug (mainly as I am usually wrong!) but when there was first speculation I did think ‘oh well Merc just want to expand into f1′ and thought nothing else of it. Then I found a little report about rumours about Mclaren wanting to buy from BMW and build their own engines. In fact I think I pasted the report in on this site on one of articles a few months back as I remember Mp4 commenting on it:S anyway from, then on I thought it won’t be sudden but Mclaren will eventually break away from Mercedes and I was shot down by my friends saying it will never happen.
For me, this will be great having a big name back. However, I also think Mclaren eventually having full independence is great and I know they can do well with it. It’ll be nice seeing a true Mclaren vs Ferrari fight.
Somehow, at the end of the post, I found myself concluding that it is Adrian Newey’s cars that are most unreliable.
And looking at this year, that wouldn’t be a wrong conclusion.
He probably doesn’t do much for cooling the engine.
Anyways, that debate can be done in a different post
. But surely, unreliability follows Adrian Newey.
Good point — Adrian Newey’s designs seem to be fast but fragile (for whatever reason). Remember as well the bits arbitrarily flying off the Red Bulls in Singapore and Japan. Whereas the Brawn (whoever designed it) was built like a (very fast) tank — Rubens losing his double diffuser in Melbourne and his front endplate in Abu Dhabi without any loss of pace, and sticking the back of the chassis back together with gaffer tape after shoehorning the Mercedes engine in.
Clearly the design team at Brawn seem to be able to build a car that will take punishment and hold its pace, whereas Adrian Newey’s cars, while more advanced technically (nose strakes, rear suspension, etc) seem to fall apart a bit more.
IMHO, Brawn’s success is mostly due to their extra time and effort. Button’s first 6 wins came from a car that was over-developed while the rest of the grid were still trying to get in terms with the new regulation. When the rest of the grid came up, especially RBR and Mclaren they hardly matched them. They might have moved their efforts to 2010 already, but surely that didn’t justify their lack of performance in second half. Nevertheless, they did trade off their 2008 season for this result and they did deserve this championships (but at the cost of Honda)!
Mercedes’ way of partnering a good team on the grid and stay at the helm to have their say was not successful with Mclaren. They found a good way to do that, by branding the BGP with their name. They’ll succeed in having a team under their control, but it is highly unlikely that they’ll stay on the top of the table.
They may gain Ross’ technical advantage, but they’ll miss the entire Mclaren talent which can turn a dog of a car into a race winner in no time (and not to mention, without testing)! It’ll be hard time for Mercedes, I would love to see Mclaren with their old Orange livery… but from the news here, it looks unlikely! I think, 2010 would be a fight between Mclaren, RBR and Ferrari! No offense, I wouldn’t mind adding Brawn (Mercedes GP) there, but I doubt their development strategy under pressure!!!
But it wont entirely happen for the next 6 years!
Groan, mp4. So your logic is that Mercedes taking the opportunity of having its own team AND committing to supplying McLaren at least through 2015 makes them evil? Sheesh.
fantastic reply, they cost a lot of wins and championships! this year has been there stand out year and its gone straight to there heads.
Whats to say ferrari wont have the best engine next year, its more than likely, then wonder what evryone will think to merc…again. I cant forgive them for 2005! for that reason aloner they should have kimi to apologise
on liveries -
McLaren obviously like the way their cars look at the moment (and who doesn’t – best one in my view).
But Merc want to be the Silver Arrows again.
So, expect this –
McLaren to become a metallic, gunmetal grey; plenty of contrast for red flashes, courtesy of their sponsor.
Mercedes to go real silver, a la 1955; proper brushed metal (even though the car is carbon fibre).
The difference will be very obvious, and both cars will be stunning to look at. (Although perhaps McLaren will have some heat absorption issues in places like Bahrain, Turkey, Hungary, Spain, etc.)
McLaren orange plz!
Already confirmed they’re running red and silver.
yuck
Wow, who would have thought Ross Brawn and Nobert Haug in the same team. They were the arch rivals for most of 2000s and late 90s.
Should be an interesting combo though, calmly banana eating man and over-excited guy who can break pitwall with his bare hands.
Nice description Mahir. Actually Norbert Haug did actually “Break” something in the McLaren pit wall during the 2003 race at nurburgring.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9UU0b8m7Us
And was that Rosberg cheering towards the end of the video?
Any idea how much Mercedes and Aabar are paying for 75.1% of Brawn? And who is on the receiving end? I take it Brawn and Fry are significant $hareholder$, but what part, if any, does Honda still own?
guys in all this contest?..where does kimi raikkonen stands,,kimi once said “just wait and see”..i believe in it and i think he will surely be in of the teams most probably brawn..
I hope and wish Kimi goes to the now called Mercedes team. It is very unlikely he will get equal treatment if he goes to McLaren. Kimi will be faster than Kovy and most likely as good as Hamilton but very high chance that he will be 2nd , especially in regards to upgrades/ car development
Am I alone in having the words “Williams”, “BAR”, “contracts” and “karma” buzzing around in my head when I think about Jenson?
He’s fast when the car is right, but Hamilton can drive the wheels of a supermarket trolley. Head-to-head I’d see Hamilton destroying Button’s confidence in short order.
Yeah! Button is like a Labrador Retriever( I own one too)
Hamilton on the other hand drives his car like a Dobermann( used to own one)
I’d never allow Harry(my Lab), to mingle with Rocky(my old dobermann)
Consequences can be devastating
Agreed.
Amen. With all due respect to the new world champion, you would have to be out of your mind to believe Button could hold his own against Hamilton on even ground.
Brawn & Fry just got a ginormous payday!
hmm.. a Force India, an USF1 and a Malaysian Lotus.. now an all British Mclaren and an all German Mercedes.. wat nxt??
All Italian Ferrari? High time they start grooming their young talents.
Fisi and Luca!
Hahahahahaha, yeah I guess that didn’t work out so well…..
MP4 the stats you show pointing out a weakness in Mercedes engines shows to non Mclaren fans a weakness from Mclaren in not finding a reliable engine in 10 years, and no matter what colour you paint it it still goes at the same speed.Interesting times ahead.
Great news. So Formula One is still attractive to few manufacturers. Ross Brawn himself said 2 days back, “Manufacturers will return to F1″. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80116
I assume Mclaren’s unwillingness to take Rosberg as Hamilton’s team-mate must have been the final straw in the partnership rocked recently by big controversies, spygate, liegate.
Having one full German team and one full British team doesn’t make sense to me. This is not A1 GP. Now with Mercedez money, they should be able to match Jenson’s pay demands. Button and Rosberg should make a fine team.
Mclaren can then snap up Kimi, Heikki, Nick, Kobayashi, whoever they want. Everyone stays happy.
And yes, “Brawn GP” will go down as the most successful team in Formula 1 History. Winning 8 out of 17 races. One more for the stats page, Keith.
It seems that the “Mercedes” may offer Rosberg more than Button to clear the way for an all German driver line-up. Button will go to McLaren with No 1 and his name in the record books with every chance of fair pay.
Nobody will be throwing teddies out of the pram other than Pa Hamilton whose power would be broken. Good for Lewis, good for McLaren and the team members who must be fed up with Pa (and Norbert Haug).
McLaren need the Constructors championship. Both drivers will drive their hardest, neither will play dirty. Mclaren never have favoured one driver. Strong team.
We get strong pairings at Ferrari, McLaren and Red Bull. Weaker pairings at Williams, Renault and Honda/Brawn/Mercedes but capable of upsets on the day.
McLaren may develop their own engine in time by engineering skills rather than the Mercedes route of buying Ilmor.
Great racing for 2010. Bare rims thereafter.
With Ron Dennis making come-back(?), don’t expect ‘equality’ :p
With Ron coming back, don’t expect the English language either…