Flavio Briatore wins appeal against lifetime ban from motorsport
The lifetime ban handed to Flavio Briatore by the FIA has been overturned
Flavio Briatore has successfully overturned his lifetime ban from motor racing.
The ban, handed down by the FIA after Briatore was found guilty of ordering Nelson Piquet Jnr to crash during the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix, was cancelled following Briatore’s appeal to the French Tribune de Grande Instance.
Update: The FIA has criticised the decision and is considering an appeal.
The FIA had achieved its ban by refusing to sanction events in which Briatore was involved, effectively banning him from motor racing indefinitely. Reuters quotes the judge saying “the sanction was illegal”.
But the Renault team largely escaped punishment by the FIA after Briatore and co-conspirator Pat Symonds left the team. But with Briatore’s ban now removed hardly anyone involved in the Singapore scandal has received a significant penalty.
Nelson Piquet Jnr also went unpunished but does not look like finding another F1 drive. As with him, you have to wonder if anyone in motor racing would now wish to be tainted by association with Briatore.
Briatore had demanded €1m in compensation, but received €15,000. Pat Symonds’ five-year ban was also overturned and he was awarded €5,000.
The decision is a rare defeat for the FIA which has usually triumphed when its verdicts have been challenged by external courts. It has already announced it will appeal against the decision by the court.
Update 1: Autosport reports the FIA must publish details of the bans being lifted on Briatore and Symonds within two weeks.
Update 2: The FIA has issued a strong criticism of the decision:
The FIA’s ability to exclude those who intentionally put others’ lives at risk has never before been put into doubt and the FIA is carefully considering its appeal options on this point.
The Court’s decision is not enforceable until the FIA’s appeal options have been exhausted. Until then, the World Motor Sport Council’s decision continues to apply.
In addition, the FIA intends to consider appropriate actions to ensure that no persons who would engage, or who have engaged, in such dangerous activities or acts of intentional cheating will be allowed to participate in Formula One in the future.
FIA statement
Should Briatore's lifetime ban have been lifted?
- Yes (35%, 333 Votes)
- No (60%, 580 Votes)
- No opinion (5%, 51 Votes)
Total Voters: 964
Loading ...Renault Singapore crash controversy
- Renault escape ban for crash (Poll)
- Fernando Alonso should renounce his Singapore Grand Prix ‘win’
- Briatore and Symonds step down as Renault accepts Singapore crash charge
- Piquet-Renault scandal: more new evidence and complaints about leaks
- Statement by Nelson Piquet Jnr on his Singapore crash leaked online
- Did Piquet crash on purpose? (Poll)
- Renault face Singapore crash hearing
- Nelson Piquet Jnr and Fernando Alonso in renault Singapore claim
- Piquet’s scathing attack on Briatore
- Nelson Piquet Jnr dropped by Renault
- 2008 Singapore Grand Prix analysis
- Fernando Alonso’s bad luck turns good for win (2008 Singapore Grand Prix)
He´s back!
sweet!
Now he’s won that case, we will soon see who is the mr ‘x’ if he goes on and sues max and the pk’s etc….
Maybe mr ‘x’ was max’s imaginary mate made up just to make it all stick…
I bet max never thought this would happen and is prob now chi ting himself LOL
Be great to see max get taken down.
Briatore GP on the grid for the 2011 season?
I´m curious to see, who´s gonna be at his big party!
The court have made the correct decision. As I’ve been saying since the punishment was handed out, a lifetime ban was way beyond what the FIA could legally do to punish Flav. Briatore needs to be punished for his role in the Singapore scandal but it must be done legally.
I totally agree. I said ‘No’ in the poll above because I would like him to stay banned, but on legal grounds his ban was rightly overturned.
I agree. A life time ban was far beyond what Briatore deserved, but he most definitely deserved a punishment.
I can’t believe this whole crash scandal has gone completely unpunished now though! Granted it’ll be hard for the 3 of them to get a job now, but it wont be impossible. Nothings stopping them now.
Can the FIA appeal the appeal ruling?…If that makes sense! Hehe
Yes, the FIA can appeal. It’s worth noting, however, that though the punishments have been overturned the decision has not – i.e. Briatore and Symonds are still guilty though their punishments no longer apply.
The best course of action for the FIA would be to recall Briatore and Symonds to the World Council and give them another punishment, one that they are legally able to enforce. Such as banning both men from areas of FIA jurisdiction (e.g. the F1 paddock) for a certain period.
Aw good. Hope they do!
As it stands Andy, I don’t believe they can even do that.
Briatore and Symonds where employed by the Renault team, thus any sanction against them has to be with the team, the men as individuals are impervious to the FIA. On the other hand Piquet as a driver, is not immune and should not have got off as easily as he did.
“The FIA … can sanction licence holders, leaders, members of the ASNs [national sporting authorities], but it cannot with respect to third parties, take measures equivalent to a sanction – in contravention of article 28 of its statutes”
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80744
Article 28
The FIA do have authority over certain areas, though, like the F1 paddock. They can permit and deny entry to whoever they like; they are certainly entitled to inform Briatore and Symonds that they are no longer welcome in an FIA-run paddock.
re:
Apparently the Paddock Club is operated by Allsport Management, now part of Formula One Group. Therefore it is Ecclestone who has the final say and regarding Briatores’ case, he is well known for stating ‘even murderers don’t get life sentences’.
In fact Ecclestone recently said ‘He is welcome to come back to the paddock’.
As suggested eleswhere the FIA will have to come up with something along the lines of a compulsory license for all key personnel, which will put the ball back in the FIA’s court.
Link: The Paddock Club (grandprix.com)
Link: Formula One Group (wiki)
Link: Ecclestone: Briatore ‘welcome’ in F1 (autosport)
I think they can Katy.
Nobody will want him in F1 now so really his ban being overturned is irrelevent.
I thought that initially, but he has the money to simply buy another teams entry and no one could do anything about it.
Toro Rosso could be an opportunity for him to get back into F1. Flavio wants to buy, Red Bull want to sell, it’s a small, affordable Italian team which should now be capable of building its own cars. Toro Rosso to become Briatore GP in 2011- you heard it here first!
Or alternatively he could team up with Zoran Stefanovic to form Stefanavio F1…
Bernie has always had soft spot for Flav hehe. So who knows they might just buy off one of these new teams in 2011 & re-brand it Brabham. Its definitely possible.
Ok here are the possibilities…
1) Flavio takes a stake in Campos Meta1….second driver from his driver managements….
2) Buys Torro Rosso.
Both real possiblities before the start of 2010 season.
3) Ties up with Zoran Stefanovic and SGP becomes FBGP….entry still contingent on one of the new teams failing and FIA approving the new team. If FB gets involved i can not see that happening…
Oh BTW…..Pat Symonds will be the technical director no matter whioch team Flavio buys into…
You might be onto something there Ned. I wonder what the bookie’s would make of this. I’m not a gambling man but wouldn’t it be worth a tenner if the odds were right????
Sorry, posted it in the wrong place.
How sure is anyone that Briatore really wants to go back into F1? Oppourtunities for him within the sport are now vastly reduced. He won’t be able to hold a position in any large team as no large corporate structure would allow his reputation anywhere near their brand image and he won’t be able to strut round the paddoc like he used to because the vast majority of the people will be dead set against him.
He’ll probably stay in footie or start other investments if you ask me.
“no large corporate structure would allow his reputation anywhere near their brand image and he won’t be able to strut round the paddock like he used to because the vast majority of the people will be dead set against him.”
Thats exactly what was said a year and a half ago about Mosley….Money talks…
good call ned, I can see this as feasible.
Not sure if it would happen but it is totally do-able
From what I know of the scandal, I wanted it to stick. However, like all F1 Drama’s there is soooooo much more to the story that we simply dont’t [and most likely never will] know.
The only good side is that we have more chances to see beatiful girls on the grid.
The bad side is that he’s really ugly. I never liked him, and in Italy some really bad stories on his past circulate.
It does look as if he was setup in the whole affair. If Mosley told Briatore, that he presence wasn’t necessary at the FIA hearing, but then proceeded to use his abscence as proof of guilt, then it shows Mosley has some answering to do.
I dont think Mosley told him his attendance was optional. Flavio had been sacked at that point, so he couldnt be forced to attend the FIA hearing.
In fact I believe it was Flav’s own Lawyers that advised him not to attend…
Completely pointless, nobody wants him now. Even if he tried to enter his own team i’m sure the FIA will male sure he doesn’t gain an entry, he could only get back in by buying an existing team, who is selling?
Actually i’m only scared that he may buy toro rosso, but its a very outside chance.
I’d love to see him back on the circuit in 2010. He’s a very talented guy and what he’s done with Renault during his tenure there was phenomenal.
If I were a stakeholder in the new teams, I’d sign him up today!
What Red Andy and Spud said.
Haha 15,000Euros, i guess that’s what that sucker is worth in the end. i hope no one is dumb enough to put him back on the grid, and if he applies for a new team sometime in the future, i doubt the FIA will hear his case…
the FIA will send out a memo negating its previous order to shun flavio away in case their appeal fails. but i doubt anyone who wants to be on the FIA’s good side will ever deal with him anyway…
so selling 5$ jeans for 500 it is to people that don’t know what he is (not) all about…
hmmmm! thank you Ron Dennis for that insight! ive only just started thinking about all the avenues and stories implied but the “real tales” behind you lot are hard to glean! Even the proper tasty stuff about the drivers is truthfully impossible to hear about! 2 of them must have been involved in a punch up “behind the scenes” somewhere in the last 5 years, but we dont know about it!!! #:) i wonder if you do?
I knew he would get off, the life time ban was just to over the top for effecting the outcome of just one race.
Affecting the outcome of one race? Is that what you think this is about? It’s not about the cheating – ok, the cheating is worthy of a ban in itself, but are people forgetting what happened?
Briatore *ORDERED A DRIVER TO CRASH*. OK? Repeat that to yourselves a few times until it sinks in. He risked the lives of all the drivers on the track, the marshals who ran out to help, and the spectators nearby. The fact that F1 is safER now should not and does not mitigate that.
What he did was the absolute worst thing a team principal could ever, ever do – cheating to achieve victory and endangering the lives of participants and spectators to do so. Anything less than a lifetime ban is unacceptable, and as far as I’m concerned, Renault should have been instantly and permanently banned from motorsport. And anyone at Renault who could be shown to have known that this happened without going to the FIA? Same. Out. Done. Period.
The higher ups at Renault didn’t know this was happening? Tough **** – it was their job to know. They hired a scumbag and allowed him to create an environment where this was possible.
This isn’t cheating. This is the worst of the worst of the worst, and anyone even remotely involved doesn’t deserve to go near a race car as long as they live.
Perisoft, I 100% agree!
Jack Bauer would have made the same orders!
Today’s decision wasn’t taken by some dodgy sporting body but the French courts, the FIA’s punishment was clearly illegal and therefore they should find a legal way to punish those responsible.
There’s no point in crying about how bad the crime was, it doesnt make a difference to the fact that the punishment handed out by the FIA wasn’t valid or legal. In your words it’s just “tough ****”
Actually PeriSoft, it has never been conclusively proven that Briatore ordered anyone to do anything. Speculation abounds that Nelson Piroutte Piquet suggested the plan himself. And what’s more, Piquet was the one who actually went through with it.
A little less hyerbole, perhaps?
And while I do not condone what Briatore, Symmonds or Piquet did, the fact remains that one man actually carried the plan and got off scott free, yet the other two ‘conspirators’ were punished severely. Briatore’s ban was the result of a vendetta from S&Max, nothing more, nothing less. On that basis alone, I am glad to see it rescinded. Justice should not be meted out on the basis of personal vendetta’s.
While I agree that he should have some form of sanction, the punishment should fit the crime.
Pink Peril, i’m with you on the lot bar the S&Max vendetta…
the cheating boiled the blood of every Fan and member of the sport, and the sporting world in general…Vendetta is in this case not applicable…you have to remember that Ecclestone, his friend partner and part confident, and possibly of whom he might of been successor voted against him on the WMSC…
A voice of reason.
I agree you 100% on your views about Briatore.
I agree and that includes Teflonso.
All of this imbroglio merely demonstrates what big money does to any sport. Sure, it brings in the very best people from engneers to drivers. Unfortunately it also attracts people with other, less savoury skills.
I don’t know about anybody else, but people like Mosely, Ecclestone, Briatore would not be welcome guests at my dinner table. I’d trust none of them further than I could throw a suumo wrestler, and I’d count the silver both before they arrived and immediately they left.
Does that make me naive ? I don’t think so. More likely that I can recognise a sewer rodent when I see and hear one.
F1 people were never pure as the driven snow. They’re racers, and the most competitive are also totally ruthless about everything they do in F1. But the best of them also lift their heads from under the gearbox occasionally and look outside the grimy workshop window at the real world.
At least we all hope they do.
Absolutely agree Perisoft.
@Ads21 – you say that the FIA’s decision was “clearly illegal” – because of the decision of this court..? Wait for the next five or ten back and forth appeals that that are sure to follow, because off and on it will be declared “clearly legal” as well.
@Pink Peril – the people who give orders to carry out crimes are always punished more severely than the people who carry them out – as is the way it should be. Between Briatore and Piquet Jr, which one should have had more sense to hit the “let’s all stop for a second and think about what we are discussing here because it’s just so over the top wrong” button?
Absolutely on the nail Maciek !
Ah but Maciek, there is no proof that Briatore ordered anyone to do anything. That was my point.
@PeriSoft
But how do you know that for sure? This is exactly the problem here. To say that Briatore “ORDERED” his driver to crash can only be concluded by saying that we believe every single word Piquet Jnr is saying.
I dont believe that Briatore forcibly ordered Piquet to crash. If that were the case the driver would have immediately reported to the FIA, and moreover he would try to prevent this from happening. But that wasnt the case, Piquet Jnr denied involvement the core, played dumb, and showed no sign of having been forced into something he did not like. Furthermore there is no hard evidence nor proof to suggest being ORDERED.
Instead the most likely scenario is that Piquet himself suggested the idea to the team so that he can secure a drive for the following year and happily executed the act. Briatore is of course guilty for playing along and telling Piquet when to crash, and should indeed be punished, but not with a lifetime ban entirely but perhaps a prevention of owning or running a team. The individual who should have been punished the most is the driver himself. Piquet was the one who directly and carried out the act.
Totally agree. Well said.
Sorry, meant that I agree with Perisoft.
If a team thought the advantages of hiring someone involved in what happened at the Singapore Grand Prix in 2008 outweighed the disadvantages then they would sign them up, for example if Piquet Jnr was as good a driver as Alonso he would have no trouble getting another drive.
With Briatore, even if the FIA don’t win an appeal and he is free to be involved in F1 again I doubt anyone would want him not just because of the race fixing but also the fact that they know they would be making an enemy of the FIA.
Looking back. He should get off and I think the FIA were completely foolish here. All that effort of nailing Flav and they couldn’t even hand out a legal punishment. A crime that damaged F1s reputation has been damaged further still by the FIA failing here.
Briatore should be punished for what happened but legally punished. This whole thing has been a nightmare and shows how not to run a sport.
I’m happy that today at least everything was put aside and a hard decision was made. Briatore should never be unpunished but the FIA has made a mess of this and allowed this to happen.
Excellent points.
Flavio’s done well here. He was very clever to only appeal how the FIA ran the “trial”, not the verdict. So he doesn’t have to actually answer the charges, he just gets off the punishment. Stays at QPR, keeps his management and F1 businesses, and can walk off into the sunset. Also, he put a big one over on Max here. Major slap on the wrist from a real court to the FIA.
In summary:
1 – The FIA can’t be trusted to run a simple enquiry.
2 – The FIA can’t be trusted to stick to their own published rule book.
3 – The man running the FIA was not acting in the interests of the sport or of the truth.
No doubt Alan Donnelly will be out in force blustering away. The fact remains that the FIA were faced with a big problem, and as was obvious at the time, did exactly the opposite of what they should have done, and made a balls of it. If Renault had enough evidence to sack Flav and Pat, it should have been heard. Piquet should have been banned for life. Renault should have been crucified for letting it go on. Instead, we got a negotiated stitch up job in the best F1 tradition. If this opens the floodgates for more FIA rubbish to be thrown in front of a real court, all to the good.
Thanks Hairs.
I think this is pretty damning of the FIA and how the sport has been run (now we have Todt it’ll be interesting to see what he does). The FIA could still push on and try to get Flavio another way.
I don’t really think Renault knew so I’m happy they weren’t punished but as for the rest it has been a mockery.
Agree with you that Flavio was very clever. He could go and manage drivers again and in theory buy up a team. It comes to something when a crime comes out but the guilty parties get off because the governing body breaks its own rules in punishing them.
Funny world this is. At the end of the day THE MOST SERIOUS CRIME IN THE HISTORY OF FORMULA ONE goes unpunished. And bloody hell he receives a compensation!
And how is it that he is completely denying his role in the entire farce? Surely Pat, Piquet Jr & Mr X testified against him at the FIA hearing. Did the french court forget to take this into consideration before overturning?
Flavio was a serious offender right from the Benetton days & I initially thought a life ban was way too harsh. It had much to do with Max’s personal vendetta that the crime itself. But surely a 5 year ban with a hefty monetary penalty is fully justifiable.
This overturning of the ban will only encourage more teams to follow Flav’s suite. Especially the new teams who are desperate for good results.
So who crashes next time for their team mate? Rosberg for Schumacher or Button for Hamilton.
Or Massa for Alonso?
This sport doesn’t seize to surprise us at all. Guess one of the reasons why we all love it.
But I surely welcome this decision. I love anything that ****** off Mad Max hehe.
errr……refer to my earlier post! #:)
Well we don’t really know why he’s innocent according to the court. Because that is what it says, not just that the decision to ban him was illegal, but that he’s off he hook and deserves a compensation.
Here are my (FINAL, I’m sick of Crashgate and hoped we heard the last of it after those bans) thoughts on this:
At the end of the day it’s a horrible thing to tell a driver to crash but he’s not the one putting other people’s lives at risk. It’s Nelsinho Piquet Jr. who crashed the car into the wall and put lives at risk, not Briatore. It’s a bit “if your boss tells you to throw yourself of a bridge, would you?” and Piquet answered wrong. He should have said “no.” simple as that.
I do think there’s some thruth in Piquet’s claims that Briatore put a lot of pressure on him but he has a strong daddy behind him and he already proved that he could go toe to toe with Hamilton in Gp2 so he probably had other options if he wanted to. So he’s definetly to blame IMO. If Briatore did what he did he shouldn’t be left alone either. He deserves punishment since he’s partially responsible, but a lifetime ban is too harsch, especially considering the fact Piquet didn’t get a “real” punishment. Except of course he’ll never get to race in F1 again but perhaps he should have thought about that before crashing his car in the wall and blurt about it, he’s such a douche.
I think the FIA and Piquet Jr. made a deal here. “We don’t like Briatore any more than you do so you scratch our back and we’ll scratch yours”. Why else on earth would the one causing the crash have a free pass to say pretty much whatever the hell he wants. That FIA/WMC-trial was a farce. It wasn’t as bad as Stalin’s fake trials but not far from it I think. There are 2 sides to each story, we basically heard one and consequently the other one got an undeserved and illegal punishment and of course a normal court recognises that.
For the future: I don’t care wether Nelson Piquet Jr. or Briatore returns to the F1, they don’t bother me. I just hope we can leave this ugly scandal behind us.
I think it’s right that the lifetime ban has been lifted but he should still be banned for at least as long as Pat Symmonds. He needs to get some kind of punishment for this, Symmonds may have been the brains behind it but Briator was the team principal he shouldn’t have let it go ahead. Its wrong he gets off scot free.
weeee more argueing…they shoulda kept the ban.
The lifetime ban was absolutely wrong, and just underlined how wrong-headed the FIA had become under MM. Overbearing, pompous, “my way or the highway”-type nonsense etc etc.
What really surprises me is the comments posted here just don’t match the result of the survey. Maybe the “no” vote was an emotional response and the “yes” vote more thoughtful….
I think you’re right about the poll. It seems that the poll results reflect more that Flavio is not welcome in motorsports, as far as the fans are concerned, rather than the validity of his appeal case.
amen to that.
stupid french court…
It will be worth waiting to see the detail of the court’s decision. Was this down to process issues or the proportionality of the punishment or both?
The terms of the Briatore’s punishment were extremely severe – effectively banning him from participating in any FIA-sponsored form of motorsport for life and forcing him to drop various lucrative business interests (e.g. driver management deals, GP2). Stopping someone from earning their livelihood is a very serious step to take, even if that person is a very rich man who who has other interests to fall back on. There are cases where it’s acceptable, but they tend to be very serious and the procedures surrounding them tend to be fairly complex, with room for appeals, etc.
In the end, however, it may well all be entirely academic. The damage to Briatore’s reputation has already been done and was largely self-inflicted anyway. The verdict of a French court and 15,000 Euros won’t make it all better.
It is not only a very serious step. It is completely beyond the power of the FIA to impose such a sentence. A court of law might have been able to do so but not a sporting body. That is why Briatore has won this case – not because the French judge doesn’t believe he has done anything wrong, but because the FIA did not have the authority to administer such a punishment.
Allen has new interesting post up. Perhaps team heads should have licences and then the FIA would have more control. http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/01/top-f1-figures-to-get-licences-following-briatore-judgement/
I was talking in general terms – even if it’s done by a court of law it’s a very big step to take and usually subject to a complex and lengthy appeals process.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say a sporting body like the FIA should (whether they could is another matter entirely) never be able to ban someone from participation in that sport for life – but the offence would have to be extremely serious, the evidence clear and the process much more robust than in the Briatore case.
How have the f1fanatics turned into a bunch of softies. It’s not like this man’s income is entirely dependant on motor racing, he took part in one of the worst crimes in f1 which severly tarnished it’s reputation. How is a lifetime ban too severe? What example does this set if the fia can’t even procecute within it’s own sports? Agh so infuriating
That would be because Max wanted it. We as fans must deny max anything he derives pleasure from. This life ban was one of the many things he derived pleasure.
It would have been more suave if the FIA had banned him for say 249 years or so
It’s not that the ban was too severe it’s just that it wasn’t up to the FIA to give it out-the whole thing was a bit of a witch hunt in my view anyway. It had to be overturned because it was found not to be legal. The FIA have spent ages trying to nail Flavio just to have the suspension thrown out becuase it wasn’t legal. It wasn’t about Singapore and hopw punished he should be it was about how the FIA handled it.
The whole thing is hurting F1’s image. First the scandal happens, then Piquet is given immunity while Flav gets slapped with a massive ban and then the ban is overturned. F1 doesn’t exactly appear stable or fair to casual fans does it?
This guy knows nothing about what goes on out on the track. He doesn’t even know if his drivers have wet tyres on when it’s ******* down.
He knows how to make money out of F1, and that’s what he’s been doing these last couple of decades. He knows how to ensure that one driver receives full attention, while the other pedals the ‘parts bin’ car. You wouldn’t want to be ‘number two driver’ in a Briatore run team, because ‘number two’ means ‘loser’ in Briatore’s language.
Thinking about the return of Briatori may sound insane now, but he´ll be back and with his own team!
FIA, must understand that Civil and Criminal Courts will always have the last word in this, so applying for a High Instance always compensates!
Remember that, there are drivers, who didn´t turn back to Briatori and moreover, at least 2 teams on the grid are having financial problems, so Briatori will buy is way back, passing FIA.
His foolish decision of sending Piquet to crash was stupid, but Piquet is not even a good driver and only thanks to his dad bought a place on the grid.
Where is Piquet now, if he´s so inocent?
Don’t tell me that. Show me one other driver who could purposely crash a F1 car & make it look totally unsuspecting. give the guy some credit hehe.
This drama wouldn’t have come out if Piquet jr hadn’t been sacked after Hungary.
It is not even as if motor sport is the man’s passion. I also find it a bit off that he gets compensation for effectively bringing the sport into disrepute!
I for one am glad to see Flav back. Much happier than if I saw Piquet back, thats for sure.
Can’t stand Briatore and his long-time cheating, so I was glad when he was banned.
But I can’t stand the FIA either, so I’m equally glad that they’ve had their authority challenged by a real court (as opposed to the many partisan kangaroo nonsense WMSC hearings we have seen).
Briatore will never manage another F1 team, and the FIA has no teeth. Excellent!
F1 will never be able to drag itself away from sleaze and corruption. What a stupid decision. To Keith’s casual viewers of F1 (and to a few I’ve discussed this with today who are casual viewers), this will tell them that F1 is still mired in filth.
What an utter injustice.
Wow this sport has some govering issues.
Go Flava !
He´ll be back and proving skeptics wrong
Having won 4 WDC and mentored Shu and Fred, he has the credencials
How long before one of the new teams sign up Pat Symonds then? His ban was also overturned and all that experience is surely not going to go wasted. F1 after all is about winning and how many teams will put their morals before points? And that is also the reason Flavio will be back before long. It won’t matter how utterly wrong what they did was, they’re proven championship winners and that’s what they all want to be.
I wouldn’t mind see Pat back in 2010.
I second that motion, i’d like to see Pat back.
Why is it OK for Pat to be back. I think he has sort of admitted that he was in the know. So he is no less guilty.
Unless you guys mean you would just like to see him back, not that he is not guilty.
The FIA – Futile, Incompetent, Arrogant.
The FIA must tell everyone the bans on Briatore and Symonds have been lifted
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80744
The French court have ruled that the FIA did not have the power to ban not that Briatore is innocent.
They article also says
I think all this means the FIA will have to look at how they handle cases in the future as I am sure some will say that Mosley had a conflict of interests in other cases.
Does this open the Spygates for other decisions perhaps? I doubt Ron and co would go there anyway…
What ever people say i like Falvio .Characters like him are required in F1 without that it would make it dull. Schumi is back and with flav also back.It will be great for F1.Wait for some time and he will head one of the new teams…
Hi all. This is my first post, so please go easy
Arun.India – Sorry mate, but that’s complete and utter b*ll*cks! F1 doesn’t need ‘characters’ (and I use the phrase loosely) it’s needs REAL drama on the flipping circuit! Schuey? He’s a serial cheat just like Flav and I for one will always remember his behaviour on the track (and his lack of class off it) rather than his records. Eddie Irvine was a character, Damon Hill was a character – both men spoke their minds and actually had something interesting to say! And going back further, drivers like Keke, Alan Jones, Depaillier – these men were REAL characters.
Back to the verdict. I agree with Perisoft above. I think a lot of visitors to this site don’t know what F1 was like before technology and (IMHO) the sterilisation of the circuits. Watch F1 reviews or Youtube from races in the 70s/80s and early 90s to see what I mean. Back then, the drivers were true gladiators, risking their lives every time they went out on the track. Qualifying back then was something to be despised as you risked death (or serious injury) for a grid place. Anyone who disagrees with that point would do well to aquaint themsleves with the tragic death of Gilles Villenueve.
And what’s my point? Back to what Perisoft wrote, BRIATORE ORDERED his driver to risk his own life, the lives of his fellow drivers, the marshalls and (perhaps most importantly) the paying spectators. Yes, F1 is immeasureably safer than in the past, but imagine if one of the Renault’s wheels had become completely detached… or simply talk to John Surtees. Honestly, those of you that don’t see the seriousness of the offense really worry me…
And finally (this is my like a rather rambling blog than a post!), I have a something of a rhetorical question for those who say that Flav deserves to be bacl because they hate the FIA/hate MM/think the paddock is dull etc. – what are you tuning for? Surely it’s the RACING? If that’s the case, what we need is less downforce on the cars and proper circuits with camber and elevation, not sleaze. If the drama on the track isn’t cutting it for you, why not watch Eastenders instead? There’s plenty of intrigue there…
Yes the drivers back then were risking their lives. That doesn’t make them “gladiators” – in most cases it made them victims. A lot of teams and drivers in the 70’s and 80’s weren’t actually competent enough to be there – running ancient 2nd hand chassis and putting them in the hands of men who weren’t able to drive them but had the money to buy their way in. Qualifying was to be avoided because it was a mad 10 minute scramble with every driver on the track at the same time. That’s for those that made it through “pre-qualifying” – ie weeding out those that were so slow they were dangerous.
It was not a golden time, as the tone of your post suggests, it was embarrassing. I remember it well.
Hey there!
I remember the early 80s and onward well but not so much the 70s (born 70s)
I take your point re. victims to a certain extent and definitely agree that there were many teams on the grid that really shouldn’t have been there. As for the drivers buying their way in, that’s always been the case and still is, unless I’m very much mistaken?
Pre-qualifying was more prevalent in the late 80s/early 90s as I recall. Funnily enough, at the time I just saw the likes of the Coloni et al as embarrassing – but you’re quite right: had they been on the circuit during the race they really WOULD have been dangerous, given their relative lack of pace. Saying that, back in those days, back markers seemed to ignore the blue flags!
As for a ‘golden time’, I guess it’s a matter of perspective. As I wrote in my previous post, I want to see RACING (not going around in circles waiting foe the next pit stop) on exciting circuits. Due to a combination of sterile, stop-start circuits and an over reliance on aero grip, I’m rather disenchanted with F1 at the mo’, and bemused by talk of ’show’ and ‘characters’ and so on. I want SPORT.
In conclusion, I agree (to a greater or lesser extent) with a lot of what you say, and surely that means that what Flav and Pat santioned was just wrong, wrong, wrong?
No one is saying that what occurred was not wrong on many levels.
I am just pointing out that a. because the matter was not heard in a ‘real’ court and subject to due diligence, it was never conclusively proven who suggested what, and who ordered whom to do what. It may be your opinion that Flav ‘ordered’ Piquet to crash, but that is all it is. Your opinion. The facts of the matter have never been established, so your comment is wrong to assert sole blame, when none has been proven.
and b. the punishment handed out to Flav was flawed because it was the result of a vendetta from S&Max against Flav. I see the French Courts agree with me on that score. As I said earlier, justice should be transparent and not to wielded about by someone harbouring a vendetta. So S&Max was the judge and jury – sound fair and impartial to you? Furthermore, as the French Court points out, the FIA does not have the power to impose such sanctions.
As stated earlier, I am glad that the ban has been rescinded because *legally* it was unjust, and invalid. I have never said that Flav does not deserve some form of sanction for his actions (although IMO Piquet certainly deserves all Flav gets and more).
@ John Heath – It is contradictory to say that we need real drama on the race track and blast the most successful driver in the history of the sport based on a couple dramatic past (on-track) incidents.
I for one am happy to see that he is allowed back, his charisma and humour, is one that stands out in what is becoming a very dull a dreary paddock.
Although the fact that he is getting compensation for what he did is a bit ridiculous, I still dont understand the way the FIA works, how they hand McLaren a stupid $100 million fine, and Renault get a slap on the wrist for something far more worse is beyond me..
This is a friggin joke! I think the ban was excessive anyway but I also think Renault have effectively got away scot free. The FIA have brought this further embarrassment on themselves, as it should not have been executed in the first instance. If I was Ron Dennis I would be feeling almost murderous and cheated etc. This is F1 joke justice. Perhaps FIA should pay back the McLaren fine…
Let’s place bets as to which race we expect to see Flavio at first…
Is Piguet lite on suicide watch? Because apparently he’s the only one who is going to suffer any real consequences from this. That’s the message I’m getting from this decision.
Disgrace
Phew! For a while there it seemed F1 would be mistaken for a credible sport! Thankfully normal service resumed. Shouldn’t he be paid heaps of money too? Just 15,000 Euros is a real insult given his fantastic contribution to the global image of F1 in helping fix a race.
What A Joke. He’s a disgrace to Formula 1 and he doesn’t get punished for it. Shocking.
Surely he can at least be banned from F1 for life.
This decision is possibly strictly legally correct, but bizarre to natural justice – reading the little detail available, the court seems to be saying not that Briatore was not guilty, but that the FIA has no jurisdiction over him because he has no licence (which actually is what Briatore claimed immediately after the ban)…… but take that to it’s logical conclusion that means that if say a mechanic deliberately set fire to all the cars on the grid or deliberately laced a drivers drinking water with drugs then the FIA couldn’t ban them either….because they don’t have a licence…..
What this seems to mean is that the FIA will have to now issue licences to just about anybody that has anything to do with any form of FIA sanctioned motorsport so that they have the authority to issue punishment….. that to me seems a huge pity and very wrong …. and probably very expensive at grass roots motorsport….
For me this is a very sad day for motorsport…. I very much hope that the FIA do appeal and win.
It seems to me that Bernie Ecclestone may have played a role in this, it seems very timely that just six months after being banned Briatore has this go in his favour. Just enough time for the dust to settle!
If I were Ron Dennis, I would be coming out asking for my $100 million back but I doubt he would get it!
Ecclestone’s powerful but I don’t think he has much power over the French judiciary!
Unlike Nelsinho, at least Briatore is a proven winner… he might find someone rich enough and not bothered by his past…
Hahaha, I can’t stand it. FIA seems to be confused in this situation. They have lost rest of theirs honour. Piece of big s…t.
The UK witch hunt is obviously on. Was the full moon not 5 days ago? Briatore was never innocent in this but the FIA (Max) had no legal reason to ban him for life. Briatore is a character that F1 needs and he has shown his desire to be there by this fight. F1 sickens me with corporate sh** and political yes men. Flavio is outspoken, offensive and willing to do what is needed to keep this sport going. F1 was never a “clean” sport, it has always been about getting the edge (not always by the right means). If you are shocked by this you should not be watching F1. It has always gone on and although we may not like it the sport exists because of if.
Can the FIA now apply some sort of other punishment that cannot be overturned? For his alleged involvement he should be punished in some way.
I’ve always thought that it was a conflict of interest being the principal of one team, whilst managing drivers who race for other teams. Maybe the FIA can introduce a rule that prevents such conflict of interests.
F1 in general needs more senior people that are there for the competition, and not for the money. More people who believe in racing hard, but racing fairly and honestly.
My two pennies worth.
I know I’m really anti-FIA. Maybe a little paranoid. But I think Mosley and the FIA were out to get Briatore after the FOTA issues earlier.
They compromised justice for the sake of revenge – doing deals with Piquet Jnr, and not pursuing Renault or looking further to who else might have been involved.
Although Briatore would appear to be guilty they went beyond their remit in punishing him. As a result we now have the biggest scandal of the last decade unpunished.
FIA disgrace. How many more times will those two words go together?
So, here we have a proper legal judgement that says Mosley had already decided that Fat Flav had to go before the FIA hearing – i.e. being judge, jury and executioner all at the same time.
It also points out that the FIA were not empowered to ban Flav from all-FIA sanctioned sport.
I confidently expect that Briatore will be in deep consultation with his lawyers concerning an action for humungous damages against the FIA.
Perhaps the MacLaren $100 million will come in handy to pay off Flavio!
Find it funny how people make Flavio out to be the devil when I have seen just as worse actions from both other drivers and teams in the past.
Really? What about his record at Benetton?