Red Bull’s Helmut Marko says “Webber should have let Vettel pass” (Video)

Marko (right) believes Webber should have moved over for Vettel

Marko (right) believes Webber should have moved over for Vettel

Red Bull motorsport consultant Helmut Marko has reiterated his belief that Mark Webber was solely to blame for his collision with Sebastian Vettel which put both cars out of the lead of the Turkish Grand Prix.

Speaking to Speed TV Marko said:

Mark for whatever reason was slower. He was getting lap by lap slower, and Vettel was getting faster and was coming under enormous pressure from Hamilton. So if he would have stayed behind Mark, he would have been overtaken. So he had to do something. And Mark knew that he was slower, so he should have let him past.
Helmut Marko

Update: Red Bull have put out a video in which Mark Webber discusses the crash. See below.

Marko added that Vettel, who now trails Webber by 15 points in the drivers’ championship, had been “unlucky” not to score again:

It?s unbelievable how unlucky Vettel is. He showed so much speed, and if you have all these incidents it?s unbelievable how strong his morale and commitment still is. To make points in this new points system is the most important thing. And now Vettel has two zeroes.
Helmut Marko

Red Bull have come under criticism for their support of Vettel in the immediate aftermath of the crash. Team boss Christian Horner also said Webber should not have forced Vettel onto the dirty part of the track.

Most people outside the team appear to blame Vettel for the collision – including 74% in a poll of over 4,000 fans conducted by F1 Fanatic.

Webber discusses the collision rather cagily in this video for Red Bull. He said:

Unfortunately, Sebastien tried a move. For both of us, in the end, it didn’t work out for both of us and we made contact. And it’s a real shame for the team, obviously, because we lost a good opportunity to win the race. One of us could have won it and in the end we only got one third place.
Mark Webber

Vettel and Webber collide

Image (C) Red Bull/Getty images

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372 comments on Red Bull’s Helmut Marko says “Webber should have let Vettel pass” (Video)

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  1. breza said on 1st June 2010, 9:02

    WHAT A COUPLE of *******…
    Their main concern is that Vettel is a Red Bull kid (and marketing puppy), and WEbber isn’t.
    Vettel made a stupid move on the dirty side of the track and moved right in the worst possible moment. Webber just hold his line…what is the right thing to do when you’re leading the race…and WC.
    Marko and Horner cannot stand the fact that Mark is their No.1 driver at the moment.
    And Vettel sure overheard the famous Webber’s “Britney’s in the wall mate!” antics in Williams.
    What a stupid young man…
    Go Aussie!

    • TommyC said on 1st June 2010, 10:39

      we all saw it, it was mostly if not all vettel’s fault. RBR PR is just ridiculous. if they don’t want to be harsh on vettel for whatever reason, blame both of them. but there is absolutely no way that could be considered entirely webber’s fault. and i don’t think they understand the point of racing if that is their true stance (that webber should have let him through).

      i don’t think they believe what they’re saying, they just want to preserve vettel’s image. now vettel just looks like a child who’s misbehaved and won’t take any responsibility for his actions and his mum gives him a lolly.

      • Mike said on 2nd June 2010, 4:52

        … I hate to play the role of the devil… but isn’t it true that Vettel had his car ahead of Marks? and isn’t it true that Vettel had the inside line?

        So I could argue that Mark should have yielded…

        But of course I won’t because it was a racing incident… s**t happens, and in F1, it happens often.

    • ScareCrow said on 1st June 2010, 10:40

      I believe its more to do with nationality as well, Christian Horner always said how the team treats both drivers equally and blah blah blah! After today this is no longer apparent. This is just bs. I’ve had enough of RBR cr@p, its clearly Vettels fault and they blamed Webber and even the bosses supported Vettel. I was a RBR supporter at the start of the year after turkey its over for me. I’ll still go for Webber but no longer Vettel. The team let me down as a supporter.

      • TommyC said on 1st June 2010, 10:45

        and why hasn’t vettel at the very least apologised for his ‘retard’ hand motions? or the team reprimanded him? this is just the most unprofessional handling of the situation from vettel, marko and christian. i’m just glad webber’s showing some maturity and restraint. he must be absolutely fuming.

        • Xibi said on 1st June 2010, 16:28

          They did exactly the opposite by consoling him at the pit wall.

          Vettel is RedBull’s child and their attitude reminded me of spoiling children by giving them a pat on the back for doing something wrong, rather than scolding them for being in the wrong.

          Way to go RedBull!

          • Brett M said on 2nd June 2010, 12:10

            Redbull – The racist parent of a spoilt child?
            sounds fairly well spot on – I had to google Helmut Marko as i was convinced he must have been German (not but close)
            And the ‘Retard hand’ – is Vettel a schoolboy or a professional?

    • Rob Roy said on 1st June 2010, 11:51

      By the way I’m suggesting that people let their feelings known on the RBR website;
      here is your opportunity:

      http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/en_INT/Article/Turkish-Grand-Prix–Not-A-Result-To-Savour-021242854675153

      • BasCB said on 1st June 2010, 13:58

        Thanks for the link i gave it to them. At least they should have Vettel apologizing for his antics after the race, if not for the crash he caused with his move.

      • Patrickl said on 1st June 2010, 15:26

        I can only hope that Mark Webber reads that too.

      • Henry said on 1st June 2010, 15:27

        cheers for the link I let them know how disgusted I was…awful behavior I hope they apologise to Webber.

      • RubinhoFan said on 1st June 2010, 20:51

        (What I wrote on the site thanks for the link)

        I feel that Vettel is Red Bulls darling. I had respect for you guys until I saw the way you are spoiling Vettel. Mark Webber was clearly holding his line and was in the right.
        You say you give both drivers equal treatment. But the way Christian and Marko both spoke against Mark clearly shows the teams preference for Vettel. I am absolutely disgusted by Red Bull racing and the way you treated Mark Webber. Mark deserves better. He is a top driver who stayed professional when Vettel came on the inside and defended his position well.
        I think Christian Horner, Marko and Sebastien Vettel all expected Mark to move to one side and let Vettel take victory and quite possibly the championship. I have lost respect both for Christian Horner and Red Bull Racing. The incident was 100% Vettel’s fault. Mark Webber deserves better and I suggest he goes to Ferrari next season. I would not be surprised if Red Bull lose their fan support after this. I will definitely support Webber but not Vettel. Vettel cannot overtake. So I suggest he goes back to Karting. Shame on you Christian Horner and Red Bull Racing.

      • Derek said on 1st June 2010, 22:06

        Thanks, I posted my displeasure with Vettel’s move on Mark. I was never an RBR fan but after Lewis & Jensen my vote always went to our Australian cousin!!

      • Done and done, and beleive me I didn’t mince my words.

      • PeriSoft said on 2nd June 2010, 2:28

        Here’s what I posted:

        Mark down another vote in support of Mark. Red Bull management has performed the remarkable feat of making Sebastian’s on-track faux pas look relatively minor. His lapse in judgment can at least be partially excused by red mist (if not Red Bull); Mr. Horner and Mr. Marko should know better.

    • Pablo said on 1st June 2010, 15:08

      Breza,

      What is this famous momment of “Britney’s in the wall mate!” about?

      Any linky to a video or article?

      Thanks

      • DaveInOz said on 2nd June 2010, 6:02

        I think he’s referring to the 2006 Brizillian GP incident when Rosberg ran into the back of (his then teamate) Webber’s car in turn 4 on the first lap. Rosberg damaged his node cone and front win while Webber had a damaged defuser and rear wing. They both raced each other back to the pits so as to be the first one to get serviced, but becuase Rosberg’s damage was easier to fix, the team orders were “Priority Nico”. At one point while they were running side by side as Rosberg attempts to overtake on the dirty side, Rosberg (missing front wing) loses it and ends up in the wall. A few moments later the team once again re-interates “Prioirty Nico, repeat prioirty Nico” to which Webber replies with something like “Don’t think so, mate. Britney’s in the wall!”.

      • Yeah, I do see a difference. A massive one. Webber was on a straight (not yet at turn in for a corner) and kept going straight, yet Vettel steered into the side of him (moving in the opposite direction to the forthcoming turn). Schumacher, on the other hand, was on the outside of Villeneuve going into a corner and turned in on Villeneuve at the apex, thereby causing the collision. Not the same at all by a long shot.

      • That pic is clear that Webber was to far to the left . Vetta was past the center

        • Vettle had enough track space to take the corner if he slowed down – he could have slowed (yes he would have lost the lead).

          Instead Vettle swerved to the right and hit Webber for no real reason.

          You can’t get part way past a car and then expect them to completely move out of your way, they are only required to give enough space to stay on the track – which Webber did do.

          • argh Vettel typos

          • mtss said on 1st June 2010, 20:02

            You could turn this around and say Webber had more than 4 times enough space and Vettel needed only to give him one, and the fact that he was in front and on the right side for the corner it makes more sense.

          • ivan2 said on 1st June 2010, 20:29

            Vettel moved to the right into Webber’s car, so it’s Vettel to blame, loooking at the TV picture.
            But, please check this:
            looking repeatedly at other TV pictures, from Vettel’s cockpit, I did see Vettel’s hands steering left to overtake, but I did n o t see his hands steering right, although it looks from outside as a strong move to the right. Could it be a moment of car instability? And Vettel never mentions he went right.

          • mtss said on 1st June 2010, 21:01

            No Ivan he dit turn right but he dit it very gently and only as they touched it looked as he turned violently because his car turned as they touched. But that is not the issue. The problem is Webber did not retrieve back to the racing line, if you look at MSC vs BUT or BUT vs HAM fight you will see that the car on the outside always goes back to the racing line, and HAM vs BUT going on the pit straight was a good example because they were right against the pit wall but as they arrived at the corner they were back on the outside and that is what everybody does unless they want it to end in tears.

    • I agree fully, if you watch the camera view from Vettel’s onboard camera it look as if he actually rammed Mark. You can see his head even moving to the right before the contact as he turned his steering wheel.
      Go Aussie I say!

    • MigueLP said on 1st June 2010, 22:16

      im not australian or red bull fan but i got to say both pushed to far in the end vet didnt end the race cause he was the more guilty of the 2

    • bananarama said on 1st June 2010, 22:44

      Maybe I’m just a bit slow at the moment, but can someone tell me what this “Britney’s in the wall mate!” thing is all about? Thanks in advance!

    • Vettel said on 2nd June 2010, 13:34

      Vettel was doing all right. Why wont he pass through the dirty side.Is it written anywhere that a car could not pass through the dirty side. He was racing hard and agressively. Actually u people like racing to be boring. Vettel had the inside line, then the corner goes right so obviously he have to go a bit right and focus on his braking point. why will he brake at a dirty point. Webber knew he was slow but the old aussie deliberately was driving in his own straight way.He forgot that Vettel was his team mate. Dont talk rubbish. What Red Bull market kid?? He won with a Torro Rosso you maniac. And he is better than Webber.

      • Brake Bias said on 3rd June 2010, 5:48

        @vettel, where is written the the driver being overtaken has to yield the position? That’s called racing. Nobody is calling for racing to be boring, but likewise nobody is interested in stupid driving resulting in accidents. At no point in time was Vettel fully clear of Webber when Vettel swung quickly to the right. Go back & read what Webber had to say. He did not expect Vettel to move so aggressively at that point. Vettel was playing chicken with a seasoned driver & got himself plucked. Maybe he needs to learn a little from this incident.

        • Macca said on 3rd June 2010, 10:30

          “And he is better than Webber”

          Yer thats why his way above him in the championship, oh what a second no he isn’t.

  2. plushpile said on 1st June 2010, 9:02

    Marko and Horner are completely delusional!
    EVERYONE else knows the crash was Vettel’s fault and not Webber’s

    • CapeFear said on 1st June 2010, 9:09

      No one is delusional. From a teams perspective they want each team mate to give each other space, which is fair enough the points mean more to the team whoever wins it would still be 1-2.

      So from thier point of view Webber was at fault for not giving room. From a drivers perspective Vettels mistake if it was any other drive then team mate no one would care we would simply write it up as Vettels rookie error.

      • John H said on 1st June 2010, 9:30

        But he ‘did’ give enough room. That’s the point.

        But he was also racing the guy. I just cannot understand this point of view but each to their own I guess. Should Massa have just let Alonso through on many occasions this season then?

        Mark wants to win the Formula One World Championship – his dream since a small boy and now he finally has a chance – probably his last. Why should the guy ‘move over?’

        By the way, wasn’t it a little strange to ask Marj to turn his engine down then, and not later in the race? It clearly wasn’t critical as seen from his fast laps at the end of the race.

      • Daniel said on 1st June 2010, 9:39

        When Horner says “not giving enough space”, they surely mean Webber didn’t roll out the red carpet for Vettel to waltz down on.

        Seriously he had more than a car width of space, what they complain about is that webber didn’t give in meekly. Why should he.

        • BasCB said on 1st June 2010, 13:59

          Yes, Marko said it clearly, the only mistake was Mark not being told or refusing to do so. It was a clear team order!

      • MouseNightshirt said on 1st June 2010, 9:43

        Not Helmut’s view at all – Helmut said that Mark “should have let” Vettel through. He’s just blaming Mark when he should be blaming himself and Vettel. Mark maybe should have given more room, but Vettel caused the accident, therefore it was entirely Vettel’s fault.

        What kind of team is that? Mark will be furious. I hope he goes on a rampage and demolishes Vettel this season.

      • Brake Bias said on 3rd June 2010, 5:58

        @CapeFear, I must be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the FIA had outlawed these sort of “team orders” to achieve contrived results.

    • Prisoner Monkeys said on 1st June 2010, 9:40

      Marko and Horner are completely delusional!

      And everyone in this thread is completely over-reacting.

      • What you are seeing here PM is public opinion… and RBR have most definitely seriously shot themselves in the foot with this one.

        Horner is merrily painting away with the brush, while Marko is holding the bucket of Tar.

        • Good call PM. F1Droid; here’s some public opinion. Who cares what the public thinks when its all rubbish?

          -“shot themselves in the foot”
          What are you talking about.. public opinion? Oh, I’m sure that sales for Red Bull cars will drop dramatically… oh wait, they don’t make those. Well, then surely Vodka/Red Bull drinks will falter here in the States… oh wait, people love alcohol and staying up late to drink alcohol.

          They made an exciting race that either would have ended with a great pass or a racing incident- the latter occurring it was largely the best dry race of the year.

          FACE!

      • Jay Menon said on 1st June 2010, 10:36

        Agree with Prisoner Monkeys.

        It was a racing incident and the team weren’t quick enough to send a “coded” message to Webber.

        If they wanted a 1-2, Webber should have told indirectly to let Vettel through. Webber was slow as he was saving fuel. Vettel should gone through, taken the win, while Webber should have held up Lewis and taken 2nd…thats team work!

        Its simple logic! No one is siding Vettel or Webber…the blame lies with the team management, they’re the one who f$%ked this up

        • TommyC said on 1st June 2010, 10:40

          but why shouldn’t vettel hold up hamilton and let webber win?

          • Michael said on 1st June 2010, 10:58

            Exactly, this is RACING!!! There is no number 1 driver in the team at this moment and Webber was leading. Vettel should have been holding the pack up and ensured the 1-2 that way.

            There are other ways they are giving an advantage to Webber, allowing him to run quali behind Webber even though it was Webber’s turn to start last and also allowing Vettel to pit before Webber even though Webber was in the lead and should be given preference.

          • Michael said on 1st June 2010, 10:59

            Typo… Vettel getting the advantage.

        • If they wanted a 1-2 the simple logic would have been to keep things as they were with Webber in 1st and Vettel in 2nd, and use Vettel to fend off Hamilton, and let the two McLaren’s fight each other for third. Instead what Red Bull attempted to do was slide Webber who was the race leader back to second to fend off Hamilton in third place and hand the lead to Vettel on a silver platter. What sort of logic is that? It isn’t. At best it’s screwed strategy, at worse it’s favouritism.

          • MouseNightshirt said on 1st June 2010, 14:29

            Look at it this way:

            Helmut said two things:
            1: Vettel was faster than Webber
            2: If Vettel didn’t pass Webber, he’d get passed by Hamilton.

            So therefore, one can assume if Vettel got past Webber, Hamilton would have passed Webber.

            Therefore it would be, at best, a 1-3, if not a 1-4, which, “oddly” enough would give Sebastien an even bigger advantage in the championship.

            They could make a movie out of this.

          • Patrickl said on 1st June 2010, 15:31

            Helmut Marko’s whole argument is a blatant lie.

            Hamilton wasn’t putting pressure on Vettel and Webber wasn’t gowing slower and slower.

            In reality Vettel suddenly started going 3 tenths a lap faster for the last 3 laps. He was gaining on Webber and getting away from Hamilton.

            I guess he thinks we are so darn stupid that we cannot find the timesheets on the FIA website.

        • Patrickl said on 1st June 2010, 15:29

          The fact that Red Bull is using team orders is what is getting people riled up.

      • Journeyer said on 1st June 2010, 15:01

        I think you’re confusing the reaction to the crash to the reaction to how RBR handled it. Had they just left the crash at what it was – an honest mistake by Vettel, then the reaction would be nowhere near as severe as this.

        But RBR chose to publicly support Vettel and blame Mark, flying completely in the face of overwhelming opinion both inside and outside the paddock. The fans are just reacting to that by criticizing the team.

    • Simon said on 1st June 2010, 9:44

      Marko is a disgrace. Put simply, the ONLY people who do not put the majority of the blame on Vettel have a bias towards him. Any reasonable neutral observer would not blame Mark. Red Bull spend millions of dollars on their team for branding, and then F#*! it up by what is in effect discrimination in the workplace, which in any normal arena would violate equal employment opportunity regulations.

      I will never buy a can of Red Bull again. If Webber had signed a contract to be number 2 this would be different. But he was leading the race, had just won the previous two races start to finish, had led every single lap of the Turkish race after qualifying on pole. In the circumstances, to turn down his engine to “save fuel” is a revolting decision.

      I do not believe “save fuel” for a second. Mark drove le mans cars, there are many ways to save fuel for the lap he was supposedly over on consumption. You could roll out of the throttle earlier at the end of straights, use a higher gear in corners where it is not possible to overtake. That could have been done to save fuel, whilst still allowing Webber to blast down the back straight at full speed. I do not believe this “save fuel” scenario! It is code for team orders, pure and simple!!

      • Bertie said on 1st June 2010, 10:35

        Vettel apprently claimed his car “lost it” under breaking and that pulled him to the right, which is plausible considering that the car would have been cleaner on one side. So there is an argument that webber should have given more space but no matter how you justify it at most the blame was 50-50.

        • TommyC said on 1st June 2010, 10:42

          vettel didn’t lose it. you can see from the on board he steers right. as does webber in fact to give vettel space. vettel just used more than was there. just a critical error of judgement on vettel’s behalf

        • Simon said on 1st June 2010, 10:43

          The crash occured well before the braking zone. Look at the video. Vettel was trying to position himself better FOR the braking zone. Webber knew that and was playing his card of holding his line. Vettel chose the dirty side and knew he would struggle to stop. Webber also knew this, the exact reason he kept him pinned there. But Vettel initiated the move to the inside and initiated the move to the right to bully Webber. Therefore the fault is more on Vettels side. Webber is not blameless, but this is now more about the management position than the crash.

          • Rob Roy said on 1st June 2010, 11:20

            I agree with almost everything you’ve said, saves me writing it again. I think the fault is Vettel’s 100% for one simple reason; he’s the one overtaking therefore he has to make the manouvre

          • Lee said on 1st June 2010, 14:23

            Exactly. Plus this is not the first time he has done this and then denied all wrong doing. Remember a certain pit incident when Hamilton and Vettel were alongside, Again an incident where both drivers refused to give way but vettel turned right to try to drive hamilton into the pit equipment (bearing in mind Vettel had practically a cars width on his left hand side).

            Also I have heard that Hamilton was complaining to webber that vettel had also steared towards him during the Turkey race. If it took that crash to teach him a lesson then so be it as I do think Vettel is a good driver, but he needed to be brought down a peg or two. However I am afraid red bulls inexplicable siding with him will just make things worse.

        • bernification said on 1st June 2010, 10:44

          Which may be true had he started braking, but he hadn’t.

      • explosiva said on 1st June 2010, 15:22

        Ted Kravitz during the Red Button showed us how Vettel was suddenly quicker than Webber on lap 36 for 3 laps. If this “fuel save” was true, how was Vettel all of a sudden quicker than Webber for 3 laps? Horner said Vettel had 1 more lap of optimum fuel usage, not 3. Hmm……

        • plushpile said on 2nd June 2010, 7:57

          He had one more lap left, ie. turn 12 was the last overtaking opportunity before he had to switch into fuel save mode at the end of that lap.
          Hence SV being being so desperate to pass because it was his last real chance to do so unless Mark made a mistake.

      • M0tion said on 2nd June 2010, 9:34

        If he really had to save fuel he wouldn’t have been able to do a pit in-out, a fastest lap and fight with Schumacher with damaged aero / board and a complete warmdown lap.

        If he turns down though, the team sees it, he expects the team to put in a hold station or give him the call to get back on it to save Seb from Hamilton. The team weren’t talking and tried to trap him …. all the process going through his mind as he sees Seb having his run. Then he says give him enough room to hang himself and thinking I’ll get back and he can be in Hamilton’s clutches.

        Not many saying that Webber isn’t a great racer now. Hard but fair.

      • For Simon,

        Tears and a tiny violin.

  3. e4gleeye said on 1st June 2010, 9:02

    That’s a pretty clear cut favoritism statement there…

  4. HounslowBusGarage said on 1st June 2010, 9:07

    “It’s unbelievable how unlucky Vettel is.”
    Is it? On the face of it, Vettel doesn’t look terribly skilled at overtaking.

    • Bullfrog said on 1st June 2010, 10:13

      Doesn’t have much of a record for passing people, does he? A few dominant wins and awesome speed in the wet, but I don’t remember any fighting ones.

      Not the first time he’s smacked into Webber either, remember that wet race behind the safety car…

      • Michael said on 1st June 2010, 11:02

        +1

        This isn’t the first time Vettel has hit Webber, I’m sure that it will be mentioned as well.

      • Scribe said on 1st June 2010, 12:17

        Really hate to bang out an “I told you so” BUT I DID, I KEPT ON SAYING THIS. lol, sorry, self congratulation is ugly.

        Still Vettle is not a fighter, he is now, not a fighter under preassure, resulting in misguided agression towards his teamate an other drivers, Hamilton for instance is taking a lot of it, maybe because of his reputation (China+Istanbul) and, I almost think his doing it lest he be found out, as not the full package and definatley not the superstar he’s painted as.

  5. DanThorn said on 1st June 2010, 9:09

    Maybe so Helmut, but that still doesn’t change the fact that Vettel drove into Mark.

    • MouseNightshirt said on 1st June 2010, 9:45

      Hear hear! Just don’t understand why Red Bull are at such pains to deny it.

      • Bigbadderboom said on 1st June 2010, 11:52

        Deflecting the blame, I think its more a case of defending Vettel than blaming Mark. I think they are aware that Vettels image is becoming slightly tarnished with his unforced errors and car breaking activities. And the fact is Vettel has a far longer career left, I think Red Bull are just sticking with their man, and probably not fully aware of how biased they sound.

        • BasCB said on 1st June 2010, 14:04

          But it would look a LOT better with his image, if he was in the video instead of Mark and apologizes to his team for a badly effected move and to Mark for his antics after getting out of the car.
          That would make him be seen as a fair guy who owns up to his mistakes.

          Button did apologize to Hamilton about the situation.

          • Todfod said on 1st June 2010, 14:31

            I dont see what Button had to apologise to Hamilton for. Whats he gonna say “Im sorry I raced you.”?.

            If it was Hamilton in that situation he would have done the same, and infact would have been really proud of himself too.

  6. Hairs said on 1st June 2010, 9:17

    Mark Webber *did* let Vettel past.
    He didn’t make it easy for him, but he didn’t stop the move either.
    Vettel made a hash of it.

    For Marko to come out in public and blame Webber for it is bad management in the extreme. With DC on board, Red Bull had the perfect man to advise them how to deal with things – but evidently didn’t use him.

    Never mind what all the fans say in polls on the internet – every single professional in the paddock that was on the BBC said the same thing – The team had every right to be annoyed, but that they would have to manage the situation properly unless they wanted things to implode and destroy their season. In fact, Vettel was far more professional, circumspect and vague in his post-race comments than the team management themselves. He may have made heat of the moment gestures getting out of the car, but that’s acceptable. Red Bull are beyond “shooting themselves in the foot” with this one, it’s a total disaster.

    The biggest story of ineptitude of the whole thing however, is this: Brundle, DC, Ted, EJ had a long conversation about how much they’d want to be a fly on the pitwall when Vettel came out, and assumed he wouldn’t. There was a massive media riot outside the motorhome trying to get his first interview. Then he appeared on the pitwall, and talked to his engineers, and the BBC camera was right there…….

    ….. and Legard talked over it. About nothing. Brundle must be on the verge of strangling the guy.

    • Sush Meerkat said on 1st June 2010, 9:40

      Well its Martin Brundle’s birthday today, we should send him some Gaffer Tape.

    • graigchq said on 1st June 2010, 9:40

      “and Legard talked over it. About nothing. Brundle must be on the verge of strangling the guy.”

      Johnathan Legard is an idiot, and does not deserve to be commentating on this sport at this level. Maybe he should do post race-analysis for CBEEBIES, but certainly should not be alongside Martin Brundle (one of the most clued-up ex-F1 drivers of all time) and DC/EJ.

      • bernification said on 1st June 2010, 10:47

        And for god sake can he stop talking about a ‘front nose’!

        What, you have one on the back of your head too. (Insert comment about being two faced here).

      • TommyC said on 1st June 2010, 10:49

        yeh, why did he keep saying this was mclaren’s first chance at victory in turkey and then when they won, this is their first victory in turkey. if i’m not mistaken, kimi won the first race there in 2005…

    • rossi said on 1st June 2010, 13:07

      my thoughts exactly about ledgard, the p country hick,in future “jonathon” learn when to stay quiet.was inexcusable for a so called profesional commentator to do that,get rid and replace him.

      • Adi said on 1st June 2010, 18:08

        The problem with Legard is that he was a radio commentator, and still feels a need to talk constantly as though we can’t see what’s happening and therefore haven’t a clue unless he describes it. He hasn’t learned when to shut up. He also misses things that we _do_ see, and mis-identifies drivers as he comments.
        Can someone call ITV and get James Allen back?

        • ConcedoNulli said on 1st June 2010, 19:03

          No not James Allen. If Legard is to be replaced make it David Croft

          • MarkC said on 2nd June 2010, 7:49

            On the F1 forum (red button) they’re making use of Mr Davidson, I wonder if they’re thinking of doing a 2 ex driver commentator pair? Having said that the radio commentary will be all the poorer if that were the case.

  7. RSWF1 said on 1st June 2010, 9:19

    Sounds much like team orders then, why would Mark just let Vettel through when he is fighting for the lead of the race and the lead of the World Drivers Championship! So in races to come whenever Webber sees Vettel behind him he is supposed to let him through, what a load of rubbish. RBR needs to take a good hard look at themselves and can be sure that there are so many more F1 fans out there that would rather see Webber take the trophy from that stroppy little brat.

  8. Maciek said on 1st June 2010, 9:24

    The ridiculous thing is is that once Vettel was clearly alongside, Webber did nothing more to stop him – it’s Vettel who clearly turned into Webber. The spin they’re putting on this is ridiculous. Webber must feel all kinds of loyalty to his team right about now.

  9. The Nude Wizard said on 1st June 2010, 9:35

    Also i have a conspiracy theory for you;

    There have been rumours of Mark going to Ferrari, and further the deals already done for 2 years, This makes sense to me as Webber has a lot of Red Bull/Newey info rolling around in his noggin Ferrari would love to know as they’re not finding the answers they need atm performance wise.

    If Mark were to win the WDC, he takes #1 with him to Ferrari, i cant imagine Red Bull would be too happy about this and them favouring Vettel makes a lot more sense than just the age old “golden haired boy” accusations.

    Of course none of this is based on any facts, just from my own musings.

    • I have another conspiracy theory.

      From what I can gather Vettel doesn’t have an official manager like most other drivers do.

      Therefore is it possible given that Vettel doesn’t have an official manager that Marko is unofficially filling the void? He has officially managed other drivers in the past.

      If he is unofficially filling the management void it would go someway towards explaining why Marko blames Webber when pretty everyone else can agree that Vettel was at fault.

      This is just my personal theory.

      • Simon said on 1st June 2010, 10:55

        Marko was head of the Red Bull young driver development program, and his “star” graduate is Vettel.

      • The Nude Wizard said on 1st June 2010, 10:58

        That is interesting, i didnt know that, and may explain Markos motivation in one. But it doesnt explain why Horner insinuated blame in his first interview after the race without going that far after the race, and in his subsesquent interview during the BBC Forum going a little further and blaming Mark outright.

        James Allen also recounts a story on his website yesterday of Horner and Markos in serious discussions after Webbers previous win, looking less than pleased they had just won a GP. And Webbers wife also making comments along those lines

        I think much of his blog post on the matter and all the other little pieces of info and rumour leaking out recently lend themselves to something just a little more.. Saucy, lets say ;)

    • gDog said on 2nd June 2010, 5:13

      As much as I hate to spread conspiracy theories, your theory does make a _lot_ of sense.

  10. Simon said on 1st June 2010, 9:37

    Marko is a disgrace. Put simply, the ONLY people who do not put the majority of the blame on Vettel have a bias towards him. Any reasonable neutral observer would not blame Mark. Red Bull spend millions of dollars on their team for branding, and then F#*! it up by what is in effect discrimination in the workplace, which in any normal arena would violate equal employment opportunity regulations.

    I will never buy a can of Red Bull again. If Webber had signed a contract to be number 2 this would be different. But he was leading the race, had just one the previous two races start to finish, had led every single lap of the Turkish race after qualifying on pole. In the circumstances, to turn down his engine to “save fuel” is a revolting decision.

    I do not believe “save fuel” for a second. Mark drove le mans cars, there are many ways to save fuel for the lap he was supposedly over on consumption. You could roll out of the throttle earlier at the end of straights, use a higher gear in corners where it is not possible to overtake. That could have been done to save fuel, whilst still allowing Webber to blast down the back straight at full speed. I do not believe this “save fuel” scenario! It is code for team orders, pure and simple!!

    • M0tion said on 2nd June 2010, 9:45

      Marko had a curtailled driving career and is but a footnote in history (wiki him). He is trying to live out his unfullfilled driving ambitions through Vettel. Put an icing of pan german nationalism over it and then sprinkle it with the fact that Marko sees Vettel as the cherry of his young drivers programme and Mark as a mutt that clawed his way to the seat and you have the whole cake. Plenty bad formula in there.

  11. Meander said on 1st June 2010, 9:43

    I am simply flabbergasted by the fact that RBR don’t seem to have a spin doctor or head of PR on board that tells the management to SHUT the hell UP about their feelings about the accident when talking to the press. They could and should have handled this like every other team that has been in such a situation before: say that they are extremely disappointed about the result and will talk to the drivers about what happened on the track. That should have been all! Any digging by journalists about who’s fault it was could have been met with: “We will look at the data and solve the problem within the team.” All they have done now is give everybody something to fuss over by showing a weak spot.
    Of course, we cannot analyse the car data, do not know the RBR race plan and haven’t heard the board radio of either driver. For all we know RBR might have had a sound reason for wanting their drivers to swap positions, but it looked bad to the outsider and they’ve only managed to make it worse. I hope this doesn’t start to drive a wedge between the team mates.

  12. David said on 1st June 2010, 9:43

    “Mark for whatever reason was slower. He was getting lap by lap slower, and Vettel was getting faster and was coming under enormous pressure from Hamilton.”

    Wow. Ridiculous.

  13. Jean said on 1st June 2010, 9:44

    Mark Webber is a man , while Vettel is still a boy. So Webber will have got over it already , but then he must move to a new team next year so he can have support and will win a WDC.

  14. MouseNightshirt said on 1st June 2010, 9:50

    Here’s a question. Will Mark now want to stay with Red Bull after this debacle. Everyone was all whistling along to the one year contract before, but Mark may want a way out after this.

    Stefano Domenicalli said he was keeping Massa, but if he was going to get rid of him, I think he’d rather have Kubica. So Mark to Renault in that case? Renault would absolutely love to have him. Red Bull chassis knowledge to go along with the identical engine, would be a big coup.

    • TommyC said on 1st June 2010, 10:54

      and he was a renault prodigy back in the day. that is to say he tested with them in 2003…

      • MouseNightshirt said on 1st June 2010, 14:31

        Good point.

        A small vindictive part of me wants Webber to win the WDC this year, then move to Renault, take whatever secrets he can remember in his head and then have Renault demolish RBR next year.

        But honestly, that would be so sweet on the tongue!

        …gotta stop this Mouse!

    • schooner said on 1st June 2010, 23:01

      The driver market among the top few teams doesn’t appear to have much room for change next year. Where could Webber go that would afford him another decent shot at the WDC? Even though I am at heart a McLaren fan, last weekends debacle leaves me kind of hoping that Webber can prevail THIS year, and rub Vettel’s (and Marko’s) nose in it! This could be his last chance if he doesn’t want to, or is not allowed to, carry on with Red Bull. Time will tell, of course, and it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

    • Prisoner Monkeys said on 1st June 2010, 9:56

      Internet petitions don’t work. The only one that I know of was the one appealing to CBS to keep “Jericho” on the air … and then they cancelled it six months later.

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