F1 Fanatic

58 comments on Schumacher scores for struggling Mercedes

1. 

   Oliver said on 12th April 2011, 17:36

   It seems as if Mercedes were in a hurry to buy an operation but they ended up with a mess. 2009 and the doube diffuser only conspired to flatter what was at best an ordinary team, Brawn or not, and since that was banned, all they have left are excuses and false hope. Well Brawn has made it very big after selling lots of fresh air to Mercedes. :-)

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2. 

   Robbie said on 12th April 2011, 20:15

   Let’s face the facts here…MS simply does not have all the advantages he had at Ferrari, including those over his own teammate, and now that he is in an ordinary car on an ordinary team, and actually has a teammate to compete against him, he looks ordinary…

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   • 

     Dizzy-A (@david-a) said on 13th April 2011, 0:56

     Let’s face the facts- his previous achivements are far beyond doubt. He simply appears to be past it.

     And about every single one of your posts is bagging on Schuamcher. You’re obsessed.

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   • 

     Aussie Fan said on 13th April 2011, 8:07

     & MS does this by getting a great start & then beating him all race? Your logic astounds me sir!

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     • 

       Robbie (@robbie) said on 13th April 2011, 14:05

       My ‘obsession’ to point out the realities of how MS achieved his numbers is no different than everyone else’s ‘obsession’ on this thread to figure out what the truth is at Red Bull these days…

       You will find I am no fan of MS, even just from his unethical behaviour alone, let alone his insistance all along that his teammates be his subservients, thus meaning they could build him a designer car with designer tires with no regard for the likings of his teammates…that goes way beyond MS simply being better than his teammates…it’s hard to beat anyone, or even come close, when you are driving a car designed for someone else, tires meant to suit said car/driver as well, and data only going one way…that to me took the racing out of the pinnacle of racing, hence my comment on the viewing audience being manipulated into thinking we were watching some WDC God, when in fact many drivers could have compiled the numbers MS did under the same circumstances…see Austria 02 as the most striking example of extreme skewing toward one driver…

       So MS/Ferrari being the extreme example, when we then discuss teams such as Red Bull, I will make comparisons and look for degrees of favouritism…

       MS’s achievements may be far beyond doubt in terms of numbers compiled, but there was no honour in it, he was unethical not only on the track but as someone who claims to be all about racing, who claims to be a racer, took the racing out of F1 with a teammate contracted to be subservient and not compete against him…not RACE him…

       So at least at Red Bull MW had a WDC shot alongside SV…when did EI or RB have a WDC shot alongside MS…and if you want to claim that is because he was so much better, don’t forget the effort they put into him, and don’t forget that Ferrari in the MS era would not sign a higher calibre driver to compete against MS because they wanted to avoid that competition, and don’t forget the number of quality drivers who when asked if they wanted to go to Ferrari said yes, but not while MS is there, because everything at Ferrari was skewed toward him and they would not be able to trust that they would get a fair shot at the WDC from race one of each season…

       So if I seem obsessed it is because I was so disappointed in the MS/Ferrari era and what the meant to the racing series I have watched and loved since the late 70′s, and wish not to see that era honoured nor repeated…it wasn’t about true racing in the pinnacle of racing…it was about an FIA that wanted at all cost to see the Ferrari WDC drought ended with a mega deal to MS that was unprecedented before and since and robbed the viewing audience of true racing…

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       • 

         Maksutov said on 13th April 2011, 14:41

         omg, you “are” obsessed. ;) , i think you are taking this MS issue too seriously…

         Simple facts. Rosberg is a pretty damn good driver. So far MS is able to keep up relatively well, though i admit lacking slightly on qualifying. which = MS is reasonably good too. the end. What he achieved in the past, he achieved in the past. Statistics are there to show and prove everything. Cant argue with the maths only makes you look stupid.

         …thus meaning they could build him a designer car with designer tires with no regard for the likings of his teammates…that goes way beyond MS simply being better than his teammates…it’s hard to beat anyone, or even come close, when you are driving a car designed for someone else,

         and you know this information how? were you MS team mate? Schumacher is not there to race for his team mate, and im sure you wouldn’t be either. Same could be said about any other driver and their team mates.

         when in fact many drivers could have compiled the numbers MS did under the same circumstances…

         lol, so why didn’t they, and why don’t they?

         MS’s achievements may be far beyond doubt in terms of numbers compiled, but there was no honour in it, he was unethical not only on the track but as someone who claims to be all about racing, who claims to be a racer, took the racing out of F1 with a teammate contracted to be subservient and not compete against him…not RACE him…

         lol. so? racing is about racing, beating your team mate and others and not giving them a baby bottle. Who cares, he won in most cases because he was consistent. No doubt he used all tools available at his disposal to achieve victories. Some tools that were illegal, he got punished for them. Team orders and team mates management on the other hand is a different story… go talk to the team boss about that…

         and don’t forget that Ferrari in the MS era would not sign a higher calibre driver to compete against MS because they wanted to avoid that competition, and don’t forget the number of quality drivers who when asked if they wanted to go to Ferrari said yes, but not while MS is there, because everything at Ferrari was skewed toward him and they would not be able to trust that they would get a fair shot at the WDC from race one of each season…

         zzzZZzzzz So? Every team wants to win and use best options available to achieve this goal. And you Sir forget that Schumacher entered Ferrari while they were very uncompetitive and stayed with them through difficult periods and good periods. Did he build the team around him? Maybe he did! That makes him even better!

         You got sick of MS and Ferrari dominating, which is understandable. Many did. Same could happen with any other team/driver

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         • 

           Robbie (@robbie) said on 13th April 2011, 15:50

           Of course I take it seriously…the MS/Ferrari era was a travesty in what is supposed to be the pinnacle of RACING…I stand for an F1 that promotes racing between the best drivers possible on the best teams possible, not racing that has, like Austria 02, one driver practically stopping at the start finish line on the last lap to let his teammate take the win, and then saying in the post-race interview that he was just obeying his contract…

           I don’t think I look stupid by looking for reasons for the statistics, especially when I see things like RB pulling over for MS in Austria 02…to simply look at the stats without analysing them is to be ignorant of the facts…

           I contest that the same thing will never happen again on any other team…the MS/Ferrari era was a perfect storm of ingredients…MS won his first two WDC controversially so with illegal cars and with unethical behaviour on the track…the media was like hounds on Max and the FIA to explain how they could allow MS at least one of those WDC’s and post-Senna’s death the FIA orchestrated a move of MS, who they decided would represent the new chapter in F1 post-Senna era, and ending the Ferrari WDC drought would be the perfect way in their eyes to create the next chapter in F1…

           Hence the deflection away from the messy Benetton days, to Ferrari who needed the boost, a bag of cash for MS to become a lifer at Ferrari, and I have already spelled out the rest of the ingredients that came with the very governing body’s own desires to see MS be the next icon in a new F1 chapter post-Senna…

           And it worked…the numbers are there to see…it just wasn’t honourable…it wasn’t sporting…it wasn’t about true racing in the pinnacle of racing…it was about numbers compilation by MS helped largely by teammates that were contracted not to race him in the pinnacle of racing, which paved the way for him to not have a psychological nor physical worry in the world about his teammates, and paved the way for them to design the car and eventually the tires for him…

           We will never see another era like it, and if we do it will take for the same massive skewing of one driver over all other drivers on the grid including his teammate.

           But note that no other teams have gone anywhere near to the lengths that FIA/Ferrari went with MS, not even as a way to compete against MS while he was at Ferrari…why? It’s not the honourable way to go, that’s why…

           I will always stand against that, no matter how much some of you would just like me to sweep it under the carpet like it didn’t happen or like it was nothing unusual.
         • 

           Dizzy-A (@david-a) said on 13th April 2011, 16:54

           You’ve just posted a load of largely misinformed, one-sided nonsense i’m afraid, Robbie. You obviously need to sort out your own issues, before you go around being obsessive about F1 drivers who haven’t done anything to affect your life.
         • 

           Robbie (@robbie) said on 13th April 2011, 17:08

           My own issues of fairness and transparency in a sport I love? That’s ok…I think I’ve got that sorted out just fine, thank you…

           One-sided nonsense? I agree that seeing RB pull over for MS in Austria 02, with even the tifosi leaving their Ferrari memorabilia in the stands in disgust, was one-sided nonsense in what is supposed to be the pinnacle of racing…

           Do you deny that happened? Do you think I am the only one of this opinion? Do you think I just pulled all this stuff out of a hat? Or were you just not watching F1 in the MS/Ferrari era?

           When Patrick Head said back in the late 90′s of MS/Ferrari…”what a shame they have given up the spirit of racing for the sake of share value” how was I to take that?

           I will not apologize for caring enough about a sport I love to point out what I think are failings in F1 in the past that I do not wish to see repeated.
3. 

   open mind said on 13th April 2011, 6:34

   hey dim 23… you might wanna look at that chart again… clearly michael is more consistent and quicker… oh… you may not understand that, as in the game of golf it is the low scores that win!!!

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4. 

   Pramoth said on 13th April 2011, 11:44

   Some of you here are just impossible to satisfy aren’t you. MS gets the first points for the team and we get comments like:

   1. Overtaking in starting lap doesn’t count
   2. He only came 9th

   The guy made a very impressive start, outscored his team mate who made a lousy start and kept going backwards. Using this GP if some of you are going to say that he had no talent when he was young at all, then you should not be knowing what logic means. If at 42 he can do a top 10 finish in a donkey of a car, he was a demon behind wheels when he was young.

   And for godssake, the amount of hardwork he had put in during his Ferrari days by driving miles and miles in testing is testament to the man’s commitment. So don’t belittle by saying he never had it.

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   • 

     Robbie (@robbie) said on 13th April 2011, 14:18

     I would hope MS was committed…more money than any driver had ever been paid, Ferrari with the deepest pockets including an extra 100mill from the FIA just because they were Ferrari, veto power on rule changes with 3 votes on the board to the other teams’ one vote, unlimited testing at their own tracks including the tire manufacturer with a centre right there at the track to make sure MS’s tires suited him to the optimum, and teamates under contract to not compete against him from race one of each season…and if that wasn’t enough, he took all that and was unethical to boot…

     I’m not saying MS wasn’t a good driver, nor that he isn’t today…just that there are reasons (advantages) that go way beyond what any driver has ever had, and imho will ever have, as to why MS became a record breaker and a 7 time WDC…

     And the proof I am right is that without all those ingredients, he is nowhere…

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     • 

       Dizzy-A (@david-a) said on 13th April 2011, 16:55

       As I pointed out, he is 42, and past his best.

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     • 

       Pramoth said on 14th April 2011, 10:16

       And I don’t agree to this post one bit.

       MS has had his fair amount of struggles in 1996-2000. No one stopped Mclaren from doing the same amount of testing as MS did. Neither MH nor DC were that committed.

       There is no standing proof that you can provide that he had under contract that he will have a sub servient team mate. If you can refute that I am ready to change my view

       If they had always the best tyre maker, you wouldn’t have had 2003 or 2005. So your point is invalid.

       And you last point in the sentence makes me wonder whether you even realise the talent the man has got. At 42 he is able to beat his team mate (consistently or not, this season will answer), but he can mix with the fast boys. So trying to put invalid points in your posts to denigrate the man is really amusing.

       And you are talking about unethical which is something every team in the grid can be accused of. So sorry doesn’t count. MS won nothing by being unethical when he was in Ferrari. He lost deservedly in 1997. He got a penalty in Monaco 2006. His winning in Austria would have made no difference to the result in 2002. As a ferrari fan I denounce that decision of theirs.

       But finally I have seen the kind of post you make about MS and Ferrari. They are neither fair nor open minded. So I don’t expect you to suddenly have a change of heart and see any reason in my post.

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       • 

         Robbie (@robbie) said on 14th April 2011, 13:20

         Pramoth, you are right that you will not change my mind but I appreciate your acknowledgement that others share my opinion…

         You are right that MS had his struggles…F1 is hard and Ferrari were a dog when he went there…but ask yourself why he would go to Ferrari to begin with when he was already at Benetton that he ‘won’ 2 WDC’s with (one of them of course from whacking DH)…he himself, when it was suggested he go to Ferrari said ‘you mean drive those red cars I keep passing in my Benetton?’…you see he didn’t even want to go until the mega deal unprecedented before and since was cooked up for him, including a migration of his Benetton crew to Ferrari along with him…

         And of course it was going to take sometime to sort things out…Ferrari hadn’t won a WDC in 16 years at the time…why would MS go there? Just because he is a sporting chap that wanted the challenge? Don’t think so…

         EI admitted a contract to not compete, and his actions proved it…time and time again EI’s function was to go out there and disrupt other driver’s quali effort, and during races, hold back whoever he could hold back…when MS broke his leg there was no way they were going to have paid MS all that money to end the WDC drought only to have EI do it, so they ensured he didn’t…remember as one example them forgetting one of his tires in a crucial pit stop?

         And then when RB said after Austria 02 that he was just obeying his contract, that about sealed it up for anyone that had any doubts, didn’t it? Ready to change your mind yet?

         Time is limited for me at the moment, but suffice it to say, all the drivers are mixing it up with each other, but given the status MS has achieved on the backs of subservient teammates and advantages hand over fist moreso than any other driver in the history of F1, one must ask why all he can do is be halfed by his teammate last year, and may only match his teammate now…I know the answer…because he only proved in the past what a good driver can do with massive advantages…sadly he was massively more unethical than any other driver too…Senna had his bad moments…MS made a career out of it…

         You say MS won nothing by being unethical…I say he was only unethical with his bullying tactics, the chop and swerve at the start that the FIA decided way back not to sanction him for, and it was unethical to have contracts that his teammate was not to compete against him…it was unethical of Ferrari and the FIA to rob us of true racing in the pinnacle of racing…

         Reply

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