Felipe Massa, Ferrari, Singapore, 2011

Furious Massa hits out at Hamilton after crash

2011 Singapore Grand PrixPosted on | Author Keith Collantine

Felipe Massa, Ferrari, Singapore, 2011
Felipe Massa, Ferrari, Singapore, 2011

Felipe Massa said Lewis Hamilton “could have caused a big accident” in their collision during the Singapore Grand Prix.

The Ferrari driver referred to their run-in during qualifying yesterday, saying: “My thoughts is that again, I told you yesterday, he cannot use his mind. Even in qualifying, so you can imagine in the race.

“So, again, you know, what he did could have caused a big accident. And he’s paying for it, that the problem, he doesn’t understand, even paying for a problem, you know?

“Anyway, the problem was that I was in the middle so I had a puncture in my tyre and I pay a lot. I was not even lucky on the safety car because I’d stopped for the super softs in that moment to gain lap time.

“But them after five laps, six laps, the safety car came inside, and I had the wrong tyres to finish the race. So I was not very lucky as well with the strategy.

“And also, again, something happened with a guy who did how many times something with me this year? So many times.

“As I said it’s important the FIA is looking and penalising him all the time he is going in the car because he cannot think about it.”

Massa confronted Hamilton while the McLaren driver was conducting a television interview after the race.

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323 comments on “Furious Massa hits out at Hamilton after crash”

  1. Massa needs to stop whining about Lewis and concentrate on saving not his Ferrari career but his F1 career in the coming 12 months.

    I really dont see which other team on the grid would take him right now, especially with all the various young up and coming drivers they have on their own books.

    1. Considering your first point, of course he would be angry if another driver ruins his race after such a promising start.

      Massa had every right to be frustrated, and made some perfectly valid points in his interview.

      1. When Lewis clipped the back of Massa’s car, the contact caused damage to his front wing and a rear puncture for Massa. Certainly it was a mistake on the part of Hamilton, who was then punished with a drive through. That is racing. Certainly we have all seen incidents where far worse judgement has caused more serious accidents, nevertheless Lewis accepted his penalty and got on with his race.

        It is fine for Massa to vent some frustration in post race interviews. It is not fine for Massa to take things to a personal level and start talking about Hamilton’s relationship with his father. And for Massa to then approach Lewis in the way he did does nothing but shows how unprofessionally he has reacted.

        Massa certainly deserves to be serverely reprimanded for his behaviour. If he can’t act like an adult, he has no place on the grid. Yes, Lewis can be impatient and certainly rather pushy, but that is who he is and more often than not it is only himself who suffers. Massa has let himself down, and this is just another reason for Ferrari not to sign him next year.

        Adeus Felipe.

        1. How about when Lewis accused the stewards of being racist? That was far worse than Massa sarcastically patting Lewis on the arm.

          1. Doubtful. It’s not really comparing like for like is it. Lewis used a well known phrase recognised by many for it’s comic value, and he used it against a faceless body. And to be fair, it is well known that the stewards strong>do punish Lewis more than most other drivers.

            Massa’s insults were directly related at Hamilton, and then for Massa to approach Lewis mid-interview…? I certainly hope Lewis takes it further.

          2. What sort of eye tests to the drivers take regularly?.Lewis seems to always repeat the same manouvre and clip the corners of the other cars..He misjudges about the same each time.

          3. How about when Lewis accused the stewards of being racist?

            It was an idiotic remark but it was clearly intended as a joke.

            I’m not getting into whether what Massa did was worse because I don’t want to be a teacher on a primary school playground. They both need to take a look at their behaviour.

          4. Even if it was a joke, he obviously felt that he’d been victimised by the stewards without perhaps considering that he himself was to blame for all his penalties. If he realised this and learnt from his mistakes, it would be much more mature.

            For another example of why I think that it’s a storm in a teacup, I don’t think anybody minded in Canada 2008 when Kimi tapped Lewis on the shoulder and pointed at the red light he’d just ignored.

          5. In the interview when Hamilton ‘accused the stewards of being racist’ he was quoting Ali G who is a fictional character with a TV series who always says ‘is it cos I is black’ which is why after he said it Hamilton laughed. He was joking.

        2. ‘If he can’t act like an adult, he has no place on the grid’ – congrats, many are going out including your favorite driver

        3. It is fine for Massa to vent some frustration in post race interviews. It is not fine for Massa to take things to a personal level and start talking about Hamilton’s relationship with his father.
          >> All that the Brazilian said was someone has to talk to the Briton and calm him, maybe his father. He has not said anything about the Briton’s alleged relationship with his father.

          So making up statements is not professional IMO

          And for Massa to then approach Lewis in the way he did does nothing but shows how unprofessionally he has reacted.
          >> Coming from some one who’s driver’s color card interview post monaco is on record.
          And who mangled Massa’s statement to start with the definition of Professionalism takes a new meaning I suppose :D

        4. Notice Massa’s attitude after being spun around by Webber at Monza.

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZ_gSIYx5sY

          Contrast that with his outrageous actions towards Lewis today……his father????

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEUVZXR18_4&feature=youtu.be

          1. That was a bit unnecessary from Massa when Lewis was talking but I agree with the commentators that things didn’t turn out for the bad as it should have had in the European GP 2007.

        5. SN, there is nothing unpredictable or revolting about the way Massa reacted. If Driver A gets taken out by, or pays the price for the mistake of Driver B, Driver A would obviously be angry or would criticize him publicly. But life goes on, and both drivers would forget this.

          Massa does have a point here – Lewis has been making the same kind of “accelerate first, think later” mistakes this year. He isn’t learning. We all love the flat-out, heart in the mouth driving of Hamilton but he needs to channel the aggression in an intelligent manner that delivers results in the end. Look at where Jenson and Lewis are in the standings – this certainly wasn’t in the script. Lewis’ talent deserves much more than that.

          Maybe Lewis’ new management has to be blamed.I haven’t seen this kind of repetition of mistakes even in his rookie year in 2007!

          Finally, Massa isn’t the first or the last driver to confront another driver who he feels has wronged him.

          1. Massa’s actions at the interview were revolting indeed, but what I meant was that there was nothing unpredictable in Massa feeling angry or openly complaining about Lewis.

        6. At least someone else thinks like me, I understand he was agrieved, but what he did, or more to the point the manner in which he did it, whilst Lewis was in the Media Enclosure, clearly in the middle of an interview was totally unproffesional. And is filmed for all to see him quite clearly goading him.
          Yes Lewis has made some bad calls or judgements of late but paid for them each time. Bit this was totally out of order.

        7. Then what about Massa saying that I tried to clear the air with Hamilton and he just walked away without even bothering to answer.
          Isn’t that an uncalled for attitude? I think it’s time Hamilton is thrown outta F1 and let him find a relatively non-descript place in WRC or somewhere.

          1. In my personal ranking Lewis now drops behind Alonso, Vettel and Button. JB proves that he can be very fast and he continues to improve. He is learning, unlike Lewis.

            Still, I think that Massa acted like a child here and people calling for Hamilton to be thrown out of Formula 1 are just ridiculous, to put it mildly.

      2. He’s right to be frustrated but the whole thing was a totally clear race incident, no need to shout “he cannot use his brains”.

        I think he overreacted because of what happened yesterday, because he had a clash with Webbo last race (which also costed him dearly) and didn’t say a thing. Or maybe it’s this track that brings him bad memories…

        It wasn’t a massive blow in the end, just a tiny little touch enough to puncture the tyre. In any case, Ham also had to pay the price twice, first with the broken wing then with the penalty.

        1. I get that he was frustrated. He could have controlled himself better, but I think this has been blown out of proportion a bit- if he wants to look a little unprofessional then that’s fine by me.

          Felipe Massa said Lewis Hamilton “could have caused a big accident” in their collision during the Singapore Grand Prix.

          I think that’s a bit of an over-reaction. Clipping somebody with your wing in a slow speed corner is hardly going to cause a big accident.

        2. My guess is, that Massa is still carrying the grudge from Monaco, (and possibly the disappointment of 2008) and holds it against Hamilton. Didn’t he say similar things post Monaco?

          The funny thing is, it might not be coincidence its happening to these two repeatedly (just as Schu has relatively many such incidents) as I find Massa’s driving a bit insecure, and therefore unpredictable. Hamilton is trying to overtake everywhere, also being hard to predict where he’s going.
          Just compare it to moves between Button, Vettel, Alonso (and Webber in Spa and Monza), it was close but they never tangled.

          1. That is well said, I was looking for a way to characterize that Massa too has had his share of incidents, and not all with HAM, but usually with Massa feeling himself to be the victim, often when defending against an overtake.

          2. Think you may be nearer the truth there with the reference to 2008. Maybe not a huge grudge held, but certainly to the point that if he has a chance to dig at him he will gladly take it, any move by the FIA on Lewis, will certainly be to his & Ferrari’s advantage, and it also keeps them focused on him. Also forgot about Massa having tangle of same kind with Webber in last race and nothing of this magnitude happened or was said.
            On the flip side I was bit confused that Lewis was given drive thru for his little clip, yet Schumachers move was given a ‘reprimand’ !!! inconsistancy yet again by the FIA Stewards, not just on Lewis but in general, there needs to be a set of them that travel to all races, and stick to the same guidelines and parameters. I initially thought driver stewerds was a good idea, but they all see it differently, despite their experiance. And I hate to see the race that Nicki Lauda is on with regards his views of Lewis!!!

      3. Precisely. Massa was on course for a good race, he was just behind Alonso after 11 laps (how often has this happened? He’s usually seconds/places behind) and had better pace. How Lewis turned into Massa from the outside is out of my reach, it was a crazy mistake, he braked early and turned into him when he had plenty of run-off and he could have simply braked earlier to change racing line or brake later to remain on the outside. When he saw he was going to hit him he continued turning, crazy.
        Possibly because he hit my favourite driver ruining what so far was a great race, Hamilton has dropped considerably in my appreciation list. In 2008 I “hated” him for taking the title off Massa, but then I liked him more as he was a great talent. I was “ok” with his accidents this year, some bad luck can happen, but now it’s too much.

        1. Toothpick Bandits
          25th September 2011, 19:48

          You could see that Hamilton was going to try the undercut and come back up the inside of Massa, but locked up which meant he couldn’t slow down and thus clipped Massa’s tyre. 100% Hamilton’s fault, but it was just an unintentional mistake, no malice, no over-aggression, just a racing incident. Everyone’s going mad about this because of the consequences of the ‘victim’, when in fact it was similar contact to Rosberg/Perez and nowhere near as bad as Schumacher/Perez. You don’t anyone going mental over any of the Merc drivers.

          The way that Massa reacted is far more shameful behaviour in my opinion, than Hamilton’s contact.

          1. I agree and if the inside undercut had of worked we would have said thank god Hamilton got it back. The incident was Hamiltons fault but it is clear cut racing incident. As for qualifiy maybe we need some rules stopping drivers backing up! Whatever the rules they need to be applied in a even handed and balanced way – they so far this year have not demonstrated this and its this that drives unsightly reactions like Massa’s hands on public verbal assult..

    2. streetfightingman
      25th September 2011, 17:26

      I really don’t see which other team would want Lewis. Top teams needs results and lower teams couldn’t afford giving him constant new cars.

      He doesn’t even belong in GP2. But to send him lower than GP2 wouldn’t be very clever. That would be dangerous for the other drivers. Lower rated series doesn’t have the sufficient safety.

      1. Nobody picks a driver who says ‘I can’t drive any slower’ or ‘I can’t drive any faster’ – courtesy Valencia. Lewis’s career ends at McLaren.

        1. Worst thing that happened to Hamilton was winning the championship so early on his career.

          He would be much better with another attitude.

          He’s a brilliant driver but he tries so hard to always show he is the best, that often ends up overdriving, and finishes against a wall or against a competitor.

          If he wouldn’t won so early, perhaps he would be trying to win races, instead of this.

          Having another young and talented driver so dominant nowadays is not helping the issue either…….

          1. I was thinking the same. He from the beggining had a winning car, and everybody, or most of people, were singing price to him.

            Now that he is not in the fastest car he is frustrated and mad.

          2. Why go this way? You and me know exactly why Hamilton or Alonso did not win WDC in 2009, 2010 or 2011. We can talk about accidents to bash or demonize drivers but we all know that when Alonso or Hamilton get a car on pair with Red Bull Vettel will not win 10 races in the same year. So we should be talking about the driver who is about to win his back to back WDC and not a fair-divers fueled by a crying baby.

            Ask the paddock and pretty much every would say they would love to have Lewis driving for them. Vettel has done worse last year! That hit on Button’s sidepod? Anyone?

          3. Vettel has done worse last year! That hit on Button’s sidepod?

            And how many results has Hamilton thrown away in collisions since then? Off the top of my head I came up with Monza, Canada, Spa and Singapore.

            Spa was the nadir of Vettel’s season last year but you can’t deny he’s been in crushing form since then.

          4. @Keith, you got my point! When Vettel needs to “force” he makes mistakes too! I love his driving skills and having such a great car it’s so much easier for him. However, I think Vettel deserves his WDC and should be getting more love from us, but we’re just spending too much time either attacking or praising Lewis.

          5. When Vettel needs to “force” he makes mistakes too!

            Canada aside, there’s been little to no evidence of that this year.

            He soaked up gigantic pressure to win in Canada and Monaco.

            And he had to overtake on his way to wins at Monza and Spa, which he accomplished very well.

            I made these very points in a recent article: Is the Vettel era “boring”? Not even close

      2. What makes me laugh is that everyone complains about the lack of decent overtaking yet when Hamilton tries to make a move and it does not quite come off everyone goes mad saying that he is driving dangerously and he should be punished. Schumacher on the other hand drives straight in to the back of someone on a straight part of the track and barely anyone bats an eyelid! Either we want overtaking and all the crashes that that brings (look at how many crashes Senna was involved in) or we simply have qualifying and hand out the points based on that as the race would be pointless as no one is allowed to overtake.

        You can not have it both ways, either have it boring and no crashes or exciting and the odd mistake causing a crash. Which would you like?

    3. Massa needs to do both of those, not just one.

      He cant allow all drivers to walk all over him. If they drive into him, he should stick up for himself.

      He also needs to improve. But that I think is more down to the car.

    4. I COULD NOT AGREE MORE

      Massa always plays the innocent but he is involved in a lot of incidents that are partly due to him.

      Live and let live is a concept not known to Massa, in Monza he was angry at Webber while he slammed the door.

      Massa is still ****** at Hamilton for losing the championship on the last lap.

      Massa should get reprimanded or punished for his behaviour after the race as that is much worse that being involved in a race incident because that is all it was – Hamilton should NOT have been penalized.

      On the qualify overtake – Kudos to Hamilton – Massa choose the slow down so his mistake

    5. For all who says Massa is Unsporting.. Please See official ferrari post race comments.. After the race massa had gone to hamilton to talk in private and hamilton has just walked off without saying a word.. This has prompted massa to come out and catch up with lewis in public.. Now who is unsporting…?

      1. Of course it’s Massa who is unsporting. Lewis is a well behaved top notch driver with a not-so-good car. He just can’t help others from driving into him, nor can’t stop paying his friend’s office a visit or at least give them an offer for an invite. He can call other drivers ‘ridiculously stupid’, accuse others of being racist and totally play cool with mysterious twitter posts on how awesome he is. Yes, that is how his fans view his apology which carries no meaning to anyone else including himself.

      2. It’s useless to listen to hear Massa whining. Who on earth would listen to that?

        On the other it can be really comical:
        Youtube clip of Massa whining on Alonso about a perfectly fine overtake

        Same in Monaco. Hamilton attempts an overtake on Massa in a spot where indeed you need some cooperation from the driver he was overtaking. Hamilton understood this and Rosberg too. Massa doesn’t so he just turns in and a collision is the result.

        Massa does the same thing in Tabac, but he doesn’t understand that it’s the same thing. So he whines when someone does it to him, but he doesn’t even bat an eye when he does it himself.

      3. Massa is!!, he’s rude and needs to carry himself more professionaly. better still he needs to quit F1.

    6. That’s not really the point though. How badly does it reflect on him if he doesn’t sound off? If even for his more personal than professional self.

    7. Why did Weber not reprimanded nor penalized in Monza (last race) for causing an avoidable accident?

    8. Massa needs to stop whining about Lewis and concentrate on saving not his Ferrari career but his F1 career in the coming 12 months.

      It’s a little bit hard to “save your career” when another driver gives you a puncture and robs you of a decent race result.

      1. Hamilton has had the same along with many other drivers. You did not see Perez turn to schumacher and push him around Or Perez go over to Rosberg and push him!

        Massa is not entirely innocent in all these collisions, he tends to defend far to hard (although in this particular case it was entirely Hamiltons mistake). Also massa has caused his fair share of collisions.

        Senna used to hit others a lot yet has (quite correctly) gone down as a genius, Hamilton collides in a fairly run of the mill incident which happens every single race at least once (and almost always goes unpunished like schumachers last race).

      2. Massa was never going to produce a ‘decent race result’ even without the puncture!!

        1. Based on what? As has been already said, he was as fast as Webber and Alonso in the first stint.

    9. Oh poor Massa, strange how he finds himself in these situations now a days. Perhaps he should have retired after the Hungary accident as he lost his edge there.

      As for Lewis, keep driving the way you are, that is what F1 needs, drivers not wheeners!

      Not being able to see the front of the car makes it tricky and look what happen to Schumacher.

      After the incident and that STUPID drive through, Lewis CAME BACK big time, Massa? he came NOW WHERE !! Bet you if it was the other way round, there would not have been a penalty.

      And perhaps Lewis was right when he suggested that people are racist, no matter what he does, he always gets hammered while others get away with worse things :(

      1. he always gets hammered while others get away with worse things

        Such as?

        1. Leaving the track in Belgium 2008?

          I know it is along time ago now, but it is the most obvious one that comes to mind.

          1. I’m happy to concede that one – as I said at the time it was utterly stupid.

            Off the top of my head I would add his penalty from the start at Fuji in 2008.

            But looking at the (many) other penalties he’s received over the years, I struggle to fault any of them. Including all five of those he’s had so far this year.

          2. Keith,

            I would agree with you to a point (not sure either of the penalties in Monaco were deserved). My issue is that there appears to be inconsistency in the way penalties are handed out. Rosberg bumps and forces Perez off the road yet no penalty but di-resta is penalised in canada for bumping heidfeld. Schumacher spins Petrov out in Valencia and gets no penatly but hamilton just catches massas rear tyre and gets a penalty.

            I am not saying Hamilton did not deserve a penalty I just hope that from now on every driver that clips their wing on another car when turning in to a corner from the outside line get the same penalty otherwise it is inconsistent.

          3. Rosberg bumps and forces Perez off the road yet no penalty

            He was cleanly down the inside of Perez trying to overtake. Perez didn’t have to turn in on him.

            Schumacher spins Petrov out in Valencia

            Petrov didn’t spin.

          4. Keith,

            It is Monday morning and my brain is not fully engadged yet….. No I now remember Petrov did not spin at valencia, it was the other similar schumacher collision that I was thinking of at another race (Which he also was not punished for). I have tried hard to find the incident but due to FOMs stupidly strict take downs of any recordings I can’t find it…..

            Rosberg was not alongside perez until the final moment as he braked far later putting himself in the rapidly disappearing gap.

  2. Massa’s career trajectory is tragic. It’s no great surprise that all that sportsmanship and modesty he had in 2008 has turned into anxiety and open frustration.

    1. People keep talking about the dip in Massa’s form since his accident, and will he ever regain his former skills. I’m not convinced that’s true.

      If you look at Massa’s whole career, up until 2006 he was considered “Just good enough for Minardi” in most people’s reports. Jean Todt needed a replacement for Rubens who wouldn’t rock the boat, and chose a driver managed by his own son. Sure enough, thankful Massa came in, did the donkey work Schumacher needed, and seemed to learn a bit. By 2006 he was reasonable, and improved up to 2008.

      In 2008, only two and a half teams could realistically win races: McLaren, Ferrari and BMW. BMW gave up half way through the year. McLaren were restricted (completely fairly, before lazy readers accuse me of bias) in their car development as a result of the events of 2007. Kimi couldn’t be bothered, and Heikki wilted under the intense pressure to perform at McLaren. So realistically, it was a two-driver race, and Massa had the faster car. Even at that, he was reliant on Lewis doing badly in order to stand a chance of winning – control of the championship was never in his hands, really.

      He did well in 2009 against an even lazier Kimi (but was still beaten on pace when Kimi could be bothered to show up), and then had his terrible accident. Since he came back, Ferrari have stripped him of his dignity and kicked him around like a sick puppy. As a result, people are wondering if he’ll ever “regain his form” from 2008.

      I think this is Massa’s natural level of form. The 2008/early 2009 section of his career is the actual “blip” on the statistics.

      1. many of your points make good sense, however:

        heikki’s form wasn’t wilting so much as he was clearly no. 2 status.

        the 2008 season saw mclaren and ferrari each alternating between brilliant performances and colossal screw-ups. control of the championship was 50/50, or possibly 0/0.

      2. I can’t fail to applaud when people mysteriously forget the mechanical failures of Massa in 2007 and Kimi in 2008. ‘Bravo’

        1. There’s nothing in my post at all to suggest that Massa didn’t have any mechanical failures, so I’m not sure where you’re getting that from.

      3. On the contrary McLaren was the best car on the grid in 2008.

        On the contrary the events in 2007 made the team more resolute.

        On the contrary Ferrari car struggled in low track temperatures ( their current problem of getting heat into styre stems way back to 2006)& most races in 2008 season did happen under variable conditions and most European races under low track conditions.

        Please review the race videos and see how robustly McLaren handled versus badly the Ferrari handled out of corners. Ferraris never used to have any tractions out of corners.

        To make matters worse Ferrari Pitwall read weather wrong and put both their drivers on wrong setups in races like Silverstone ( it was not just Massa that spun 7 times on same corner Kimi spun 6 times).

        It was only in the final three races when Luca Di Montezemello coaxed the Ferrari team to sort out the technical weaknesses on the car did Ferrari looked a bit of match to the McLaren.

        Its Ok to be fan of the team, but to blatant misstate the fact to suit one’s argument is shoddy.

        Please watch all the race videos of the 2008 season

        1. How can you make accusations of bias while making comments like “Mclaren was the best car on the grid in 2008”?

          The simple fact is that we have no idea which car was the fastest in 2008, they had different drivers and would have each been better at different tracks.

          1. I have laid out entire 2008 season progression in support of my statement
            “Mclaren was the best car on the grid in 2008″

      4. People keep talking about the dip in Massa’s form since his accident, and will he ever regain his former skills.

        People keep talking about the dip in Massa’s form since his accident to avoid the bigger issue here: once again, Lewis Hamilton ruined someone else’s race.

        1. Incidents happen. Many times during each race. Massa has had caused fair share. If not more than his fair share.

          If Massa wasn’t performing so poorly he would have just shrugged this off. He has to make a big deal about it now to deflect that he’s about to lose his drive.

  3. Perhaps Ron Dennis should have told Lewis that he was ‘over zealous’ after the Monaco 2007 race.

    1. Well they did try to keep him from winning that race in China earlier this season. No don’t attack Button you might ruin your tyres. Don’t attempt to gain on Rosberg. Just keep looking after the tyres …

  4. Trenthamfolk (@)
    25th September 2011, 17:27

    I agree, Massa needs to get a grip… He has put himself in a position where he has to suck Ferrari **** on a daily basis. I don’t blame him for being bitter, but it’s his own fault, not Hamilton’s… He can delude himself all he likes, saying that his poor performance is Hamilton’s fault, but everybody knows it’s because he is forced to play second fiddle to Alonso, and has a slow (relatively speaking) car.

    1. Nothing you said has anything to do with the fact that yet again Hamilton ruined another drivers race with a completely dumb and pointless crash.

      1. streetfightingman
        25th September 2011, 17:42

        I agree. Why is even Massa put on the line here? It’s just ridiculous the way Hamilton is behaving and ruining F1.

        1. If it wasnt for Lewis there wouldnt be a great deal to talk about after that race. The guy is entertaining at least, and causes a bit of controversy.

          1. Clowns are entertaining, they better stay at the circus than drive cars

          2. @GameR_K – F1 too is called a circus ;-)

        2. Because every time Massa see’s Hamilton behind him, he goes into “thou shalt not pass” mode and usually ends up worse for ware.

          1. F1 drivers are supposed to defend. It is a part of racing.

          2. Are you actually saying that Massa should share a part of the blame in today’s incident? Massa does defend over aggressively from time to time, but today’s incident was caused by another Lewis brain fade moment.

          3. @W-K – Public memory is short, remember the driver that Jenson Button could not get past lap after lap, till he decide to overshoot the chicane at Oz’11. That driver incidentally was Massa.

            While Massa may not be a prolific overtaker, but he is always robust in his defense.

            Lewis needs to indeed sit with some experienced person (maybe an ex driver like Sir Jackie Stewart0 and review his host of mistakes this season.

            Lewis is amazing driver and brilliant racer, but he seems to have lost the plot this season and is in need of a calming influence in his life (somebody like Jessica Michibata ;-) )

        3. No, he’s not ruining F1! Lewis Hamilton is the LeBron James (NBA Basketball player) of Formula One.

          We have “haters” rooting for his failure and those who like him and praise his “amazing skills”. The former will always over-react when he hits someone and the latter will always over value his wins.

          The clean proof that Hamilton is important to F1 is that you’re talking about the about to be WDC, you did not talk about Webber’s accident in Monza or when Alonso hit Hamilton the same way earlier this year… sorry

        4. Did Senna ruin F1?

      2. Ruined whose race? Hamilton was behind Massa (several cars in fact) after his drive through, the fact is Hamilton was able to recover, but Massa was not.

        1. Exactly, is Massa angry that Lewis was able to pull his race back from the brink and get 5th, when Massa was lower down?

          Ok, Massa has a point but Lewis was punished, he got a drive through which also ruined his race a Hungry a month back. What more does he want? Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you.

      3. Nothing you said has anything to do with the fact that yet again Hamilton ruined another drivers race with a completely dumb and pointless crash.

        Just as Massa himself has done in the past.

        Fact: Massa is an inferior driver in a top team. In 2008 he became psychologically dependent on FIA helping him in the championship fight against Hamilton with some ludicrous decisions, and since then he’s cheaply called on penalties for Hamilton whenever possible. This frustration clearly stems from being second driver to Alonso.

        As for Hamilton, he needs to grow up too. He’s not happy with the McLaren? Have the courage to go elsewhere. His attitude has become if he doesn’t get what he wants to beat Vettel, he’ll drive however badly he wants. He’s giving every reason for McLaren to invest heavily in Button instead – in fact, they probably should now. I don’t buy the line that Hamilton is a more reckless driver than others, many of the penalties like today’s are misplaced. By challenging more on track, he exposes other peoples errors too – a factor never taken into account. But that doesn’t make his present state of mind productive for himself or his team.

        1. Explains Lewis’s substandard performance playing second fiddle to Button, thanks for enlightening us

          1. Button was on the clean side of the track on the start and webber defending from hamilton left the door open to button. Hamilton had to back off to avoid a collision which put him into the slower cars while button had clear air behind Vettel.

          2. @ Lee1

            A classic ‘lets stop Hamilton’ maneouvre from Red Bull (bit like Interlagos 2007 when Ferrari sandwiched him very effectively off the grid). Webber went so off line he compromised his own start, which suggest to me his primary job early on had been to take Hamilton out of the equation (i.e. the msot likely of the two McLaren drivers to bother Vettel from the off).

      4. Trenthamfolk (@)
        25th September 2011, 18:37

        Thanks for that dennis. Everything I have said is still relevant though, thanks for pointing that out!

        I agree that Hamilton is inconsistent. However, every race Massa enters is ruined ‘automatically’ by the fact that he drives for Ferrari. He will always be forced to submit to cry-baby Alonso, and well he knows it!

        He’s frustrated, and acting like a baby as a consequence. His bad attitude after the race goes to show that he’s as much to blame as Hamilton. I think he’s been taking lessons in childish behaviour from Fernando himself.

      5. Can you just show me a motor race where there are no incidents between drivers on the track? It is RACING for god sake!! And yes there will be incidents. Incidents WILL ruin races for both the parties involved!

        All I can see is Hamilton could not overtake Massa before the turn of the incident. His intention was to undercut Massa after the turn. Massa was having none of it and there was a collision. I am 100% sure Hamilton’s intentions were not to ruin his nor Massa’s race. Another 5 inches would have left both of them with no incidents and Hamilton would have finished way up. It is not always easy to judge where your front wing end plate is in a race.It is just a racing incident.

        Hamilton has been in the pits 5 times. Which is more than any one in the race. Yet he still managed to finish 5th. At one point he was 18th on the grid. Who stopped Massa from doing the same? After Hamilton’s drive through penalty he was actually behind Massa.

        1. So you’re saying that being Hamilton such a good driver, can he just damage Massa’s race, because Massa is not a good driver anyway?

          1. Dont know how you came to that conclusion. My point being racing involves collisions & incidents. There is no point in crying that a driver’s race was ruined due to an incident esp when the other driver involved can still come home with good points. What about the bad luck with the strategy of soft tyres on Massa’s car before the safety car? This ruined his race more than the collision.

    2. For any driver that would have been a harsh decision. But if Lewis does not stop hitting other cars for whatever reason, they should send him for for a few races next season to think about what he does.

      He does not learn, he is always looking for excuses or to blame other. And he does those mistakes over and over again. It’s getting tiresome. And it’s a shame for someone like Felipe, who desperately needs results for his career and ego.

    3. Certainly! What was Massa really hoping for?! Put almost any other driver on the grid in Massa’s car, and they will out perform him. If Massa is frustrated at the moment he really only has himself to blame and losing his cool just makes him look bad!

      1. Was thinking the same. Massa is a good and likeable person and all that but he lost his edge. It is a shame but any driver on the grid can out perform Massa in that Ferrari!

  5. Massa is completely right, Hamilton needs to think sometimes before just trying to overtake, especially in this season.

  6. Massa wants to realise that this sport involves RACING. During RACES, RACING incidents tend to occur.

    1. Of course all drivers get the benefit of the doubt every now and then, but when it happens on a regular basis, there is less understanding, I think.

      I agree that racing is racing, and that there should’ve been no penalty in the Rosberg/Perez incident for instance. However, driving into someone’s rear wheel is hardly racing.

      1. Stewards cant keep penalising drivers for attempting to overtake. Its already had an effect on Hamilton, as we saw in Monza. And quite obviously he never intended to puncture Massa’s tyre and take off half his front wing.

        1. Basically all the other drivers can find a balance between overtaking and avoiding incidents (look at Button), so if Hamilton can’t find another mode between Monza mode and Singapore mode, it’s not the stewards’ fault.

          1. I’m not saying Hamilton wasnt at fault, he clearly was. But if every time someone causes a collision they get a penalty we’ll end up with drivers to scared to attack. As for all the other drivers being better overtakers, one M. Schumacher could claim the title of most useless overtaker over the past couple of years.

            Button is driving out of his skin lately.

          2. If you were more objective, you would have noticed that not all overtakes or racing incidents result in penalties. It is only the avoidable incidents that result in penalties.

          3. @infy

            Every incident involving an overtake is avoidable as you do not have to make the move, or the other driver does not have to defend the move. What makes one incident more avoidable than another? The only unavoidable incidents are those that result from something breaking on a car.

        2. Hamilton’s chances of overtaking Massa were virtually nil. Massa had about 9/10ths of his car ahead, Hamilton wasn’t trying to overtake, he clumsily drove into Massa.

          1. That Hamilton was clumsy shouldn’t be open to debate, but he absolutely was trying to overtake – by doing an undercut (which seems to have now been misappropriated by the Beeb to relate to pitstops) i.e. come in wide and undercut on the exit and get a better drive out of the corner. He seriously misjudged the distances, though, which shouldn’t happen at this level.

          2. If you look at the replay, Hamilton was just ahead of massa until the braking zone where massa braked very late, in doing so put his car ahead at the crucial moment but this was at the very last moment, up until then hamilton had good cause to try to overtake. He then simply misjudged the undercut and clipped the wing on massas tyre. It happens in practically every race!

        3. The reason for the penalty was because of the time Massa lost due to Hamilton’s clumsiness. He really needs to get a grip.

          Considering Hamilton’s talent and car and he should be in at least 3rd place in the WDC.

          Instead he is behind is less rated (although maybe not for much longer) team-mate, Alonso who is in a car 1s a lap slower and Webber who is himself having a poor season.

    2. Trenthamfolk (@)
      25th September 2011, 18:46

      You have to remember that ‘racing’ is a loose term in Ferrari speak… Just watch the movie Senna, and remember the cloud of disgraceful sportsmanship that follows the Ferrari camp around.

      Besides, Massa is simply there to get in the way, and is being paid to wind Hamilton up, as well as being shagged by Alonso every race weekend. Poor little bloke, I don’t blame him for being knobbed off somewhat, but the enemy is far closer to home…

  7. Bring the bashing on Hammy lovers, but I can actually understand Massa´s point of view…..it has been sooooooo many times and for some reason this poor lad seems to be always part of the incidents that are caused by Lewis´ over-enthusiastic/desperate driving(one may call it risky/others dumb-its a fine line-)
    Of course it was not alright to lash out at HAM in the public,but his frustration towards Hamilton just boiled over by that point…..

    1. I think part of the problem is overly agressive defending against Hamilton. Look at monaco, Hamilton and Schumacher both attempt overtakes at the hairpin. In both cases the moves are pretty much identical at the beginning. Schumacher makes the move on Di-Resta (I think) and dives down the inside. Hamilton makes the move on Massa and dives down the inside, Both are in a similar position at a similar time during the move but then the move changes as Di-Resta takes the wide line at the hairpin and allows schumachers pass to go smoothly, Massa however turns in to take the racing line even though hamilton is on the inside ensuring they clash and ensuring Hamilton gets a penalty. Two pretty much identical moves initially and only one ends up being punished. Massa could and should really have done what Di-Resta did but chose to aggressively defend. He was fully entitled to defend in that way but he can hardly complain when it ends up in a collision.

      At Silverstone Massa again chose to aggressively defend on the last chicane and again it ended up in a collision. Thankfully this time both drivers came out of it undamaged, but again Massa was entitled to defend in this way but could have avoided the whole issue by giving more room.

      As they say, it often takes two to tango.

      1. It was Rosberg and Hamilton being overtaken by Schumacher in the hairpin. Di Resta overtook someone and had an accident. Much like Hamilton on Massa. Althoug Di Resta came from further back and ran into the back of his opponent. Hamilton was fully alongside Massa.

        Then Massa continues to push when Hamilton overtakes him going into the tunnel, gets on the dirty side and crashes. Massa just goes into a red mist when he’s overtaken by Hamilton. He rather crashes than be overtaken.

        The sad thing is. The rules allow this behavior. Just run into your opponen before the corner and it’s the fault of the overtaker.

        1. Yes you are correct, It was indeed Hamilton he passed on the hairpin, which makes my point even stronger!

          Also I remember schumacher breaking his front wing on hamiltons rear at the start. (Something which I think is just part of racing).

  8. Massa confronted Hamilton while the McLaren driver was conducting a television interview after the race.

    And What else happened

  9. Massa is not a great driver and having had his peak in 2008, he hasn’t won a race in almost 3 years. He’s struggling to get good results and should be on his way out soon maybe ad a reserve or test driver at best. He can moan all he wants but at best he would have got 6th or 7th place so it wasn’t a big deal really. His confrontation in the drivers pen with LH was unnecessary and an obvious sign of his frustration not just with LH,but his future career and constant outperformance by FA at Ferrari. He literally stopped short of blaming LH for his poor season!

    1. Absolutely! I’ve never posted about anything before, but Massa’s post race conduct was just shocking. I really hope the 2012 season leaves him unsigned.

      1. why shocking? Hamilton had it coming..

        1. Compared to the ‘Monaco scale’ was it less or more?

  10. Massa confronted Hamilton while the McLaren driver was conducting a television interview after the race.

    And What else happened

  11. Also LH locked his brakes when turning in and making contact with Massa, surprised that wasn’t picked up. Its not like he drove into him on purpose or was still trying to overtake at that moment.

    1. If he was locking his brakes, it makes it even stranger that he was turning in so early. Based on his onboard video, he was almost going for his normal racing line.

      He turned in too early against Webber in 2010 and paid the price, and the same happened again in 2011, although without retirement.

      1. Hamilton 2011 – hits Massas rear wheel – drive through penalty.

        Webber 2010 – hits Hamiltons rear wheel (and puts him out of race) – no penalty.

        The stewards are a pathetic, inconsistent and downright inept bunch – shockingly incapable of anything approaching fair judgement.

        1. Singapore 2010 – Webber was down the inside and Hamilton cut him off.
          Singapore2011 – Massa was almost a car length ahead and on the inside, Hamilton ruins his own race and Massa’s.

          1. Webber was behind Hamilton, but he failed to break for the corner at the breaking point.

            Vettel did the same in Melbourne 2009 and got a 10 place grid drop after he rammed into Kubica.

            Either way, the stewarding is ridiculously inconsistent.

  12. Problem is, Hamilton just doesn’t seem to learn. Shall we start placing bets on who gets crashed into by Hamilton at the next race?

    1. If Massa’s outburst was just a random one then it would be completely uncalled for. But considering he’s spoken to Hamilton politely on more than one occasion and as you said he’s still obviously not learned, I can understand Massa’s anger and outburst and he has reason for it. I still don’t condone this kind of behaviour though. I understand this incident but it’s still unacceptable from Massa.

    2. Equal odds at 1/23 unless Hamilton crashes all by himself which would put the figure at 1/24.

  13. Massa’s frustration is understandable. Hamilton tried an overtaking move where there was absolutely NO ROOM.
    i like his aggressive style, but here he just played the part of a kamikaze that reminded me of the good ol’ days of Sato (just like Schumi some laps later…).

    1. He was trying an overtake at a point on the circuit that practically 90% of all the passes in the race were made at. He was in a very strong overtaking position but massa chose to break late in order to defend the position, Hamilton merely tried to break and dive to the undercut which many drivers attempt and many drivers end up doing exactly what hamilton did which was slighlty misjudge it (an inch further back and it would have worked perfectly). Can you honestly sit there and say that you have not seen that same thing happen in almost every race this season with one driver or another? The move was not dangerous (unlike schumachers) and not stupid (just misjudged slightly) Unfortunately in F1 the difference between a amazing move and a incident is tiny and dependent on many outside factors.

  14. Well, Massa could always try winning some races. That might keep him ahead of the general riff-raff.

  15. Hamilton is like Tiger Woods and the US motocross race James Stewart, in that he has a huge amount of talent but lacks
    judgement where questionable conduct is concerned.

    Does Hamilton have to kill someone while he is not even in contention for second place in the WDC before the stewards
    take strong action against him ? Racing is one thing, but stupidity
    and poor judgement is another.

    1. Woods and Stewart? Interesting choice you made there. Don’t worry, people can year your dog-whistle.

  16. Lewis Hamilton is master of being able to clip a rear wheel of an opponent and cause a puncture. He has used this technique several times, most notable in Brazil a few years ago on the start finish straight, just off camera, a few laps from the end.
    Its a very discreet but effective way of disposing of the opposition, and appears to be a “slight racing incident”.
    I’ve said it before in these pages, Young Hamilton is dangerous.
    And he keeps on proving me right, bless him.
    Its about time the other drivers challenged him off track, in public.

    1. Also a great way of ruining his own race. As cunning plans go, it’s Baldrick level.

    2. You honestly can sit there and say that hamiltons incident was more dangerous and stupid than Schumachers? Honestly?

      Plus Hamilton has been on the other end of that type of incident before and this sort of incident happens every race with other drivers. It is a very common incident (possibly the most common type of crash).

      Is it more dangerous that Schumachers crash with Hill? Or Sennas on Prost?

  17. I really can’t wait until Hamilton gets a championship-winning car, so he doesn’t have to deal with this **** every week.

    1. I agree 100%!

  18. I think its good when drivers show emotion. plus he was full of adrenaline just after the race. Its not like he swore or was offensive (like Hamilton at Monaco) or actually hit him. I dont get all this criticism. Hamilton was at fault for the incident anyway as he turned in on Massa.

  19. Massa was frustrated it’s understandable. I think too much is being made of it-he was a bit forceful but it was just one of those angry, sarcastic moments and he walked away right after. So it wasn’t the most professional thing but this is the toughest race of the year and the adrenaline is flowing and when your race has just been badly hurt of course there’s going to be a bit of anger. Drivers may be PR machines and act like terminators most of the time but they’re not robots. I actually found it quite amusing in a childish way and find it highly ironic that Massa is getting stick for having a strop at the guy who had a massive strop earlier in the year :P

    I’d also like to praise Keith’s journalism yet again. I’ve read comments and tweets from respected F1 journalists which are OTT and how Massa “shoved” Hamilton and once again Keith you’ve been dignified, calm and very balanced.

    1. I think that for the stick Lewis got earlier in the year for his comments, Massa’s behaviour here was easily worse, and much less forgiveable. Lewis let his frustration get the better of him, and said the wrong things. But he did apologise afterwards, and frankly he had a point. The guy did get penalised where others would not.

      Flapping your gums is bad, but steaming over to a driver in the pen to have a go at him is worse, and you can bet Bernie won’t take kindly to it.

      1. I agree it’s different. The thing I dislike about Massa’s attitude in relation to Hamilton in general is that he counts on backing from FIA – calling for penalties, kicking Hamilton where he’s already been kicked etc. Hamilton had been penalized. Massa has already taken Lewis out of one race in very suspicious fashion – anyone remember?? Lewis’s strops, though, tend to be challenging the status quo, either his own team or FIA. At least he has some guts.

    2. I’d also like to praise Keith’s journalism yet again. I’ve read comments and tweets from respected F1 journalists which are OTT and how Massa “shoved” Hamilton and once again Keith you’ve been dignified, calm and very balanced.

      Well Keith did initially slam Massa as ‘pathetic’ on Twitter, after believing the initial sensationalist report of one particular journalist, so I’m not so sure about your point there. I agree with the rest.

      1. But it was pathetic!

      2. Most people believe Buxton’s OTT report though and if he had started shoving Lewis then that would have been pathetic. Massa was still daft but honestly, it doesn’t warrant some of the hate-filled comments I’ve read across the internet (and neither does Lewis for making the on track mistake either).

  20. L. Hamilton needs to go to NASCAR.

    1. yes please!

  21. Hamilton did lock He`s front tyre just before turning in but I think Massa was trying to be clever with a slow through the apex trick allowing Him the choice of when they would put the hammer down for the next straight, it was a racing incedent and nothing else.
    Massa is just angry because He knows He`s racing days at Ferrari are over, and as for taking risky overtakes Fuji 07 springs to mind.

  22. hamilton haters out in force as expected …after all he misjudged his turn in by about an inch or so

    of course schu driving into the back of perez and causing a much more severe accident only merited a reprimand , and he got away with his illegal defensive driving against hamilton in the previous race

    1. An inch is a huge margin in F1 and in many forms of motorsport.

    2. Besides, Massa probably braked a little earlier to box Hamilton in. That’s what any driver would do. Although this time Hamilton had nowhere to go and it backfired on Massa.

  23. I was the biggest Ham fan. I am now very tired of him as a driver and a person. IMO he is massively distracted in a ultra-competitive environment where other top drivers don’t lose focus like he has over the past 2 years, so he needs:

    – ditch the gf or at least put her in the background
    – drop the earings
    – get a proper manager, not a pop music expert
    – stop going to night clubs
    – stop being seen with celebrity stars and useless rappers etc…

    Then he’ll be back to his 07/08 form very easily. In the meantime he has become almost as arrogant as Senna.

    When you have the talent, it’s all about the focus and the mental approach. Atm, he is being ridiculed by his team mate.

    McLaren should drop him for Di Resta. Job done.

    1. At least get the year right if you’re going to criticise someone.

      Of course any driver can make mistakes, but they can only get the benefit of the doubt for so long.

      For example, there was little criticism of Webber after his crash with Massa at Monza.

      1. I got the year right.

        1. Sorry I meant to say that to the person above who cited Fuji 2007.

          1. No worries.

    2. hamilton is becoming the Kournikova of F1. more of a marketing product than a pure sportsman. the style, the girlfriend, the family soap opera, the various stories outside the track, his childish changing mood, etc…
      he is really impressive during the races, but he still acts like a rookie, a spoiled child.
      his radio message was frankly unacceptable for someone at his level (something like “what is the point ot carry on?”)
      he even says he is not happy if mclaren doesn’t give him a winning car…for someone who arrived in F1 on a red carpet, it is a shame

      1. Kournikova of F1

        LOL + 1000

  24. Massa may well need to get a grip but it was Lewis’s fault 100% and Eddie Jordan trying to make out Lewis didn’t deserve a penalty was just embarrassing.

    1. Eddie Jordan asking Martin Whitmarsh if he puts his arms around Lewis and tells him that he cherishes him while Martin Brundle stood there looking like he was choking on something was A+ comedy gold, though.

  25. Not classy at all from Massa. But then from his point of view, Hamilton has put his life in danger over and over again this year. I wonder how much of that we could take before making some snarky comments.

    1. I don’t buy that at all. This was a low speed racing incident and Massa was never in any real danger, unlike Schumacher’s shunt later on. It’s hyperbole, and clearly Massa needs to take his frustration out somewhere, and this weekend he chose Lewis. He has some justification for that, but the incident he’s using doesn’t back him up at all.

      And if Lewis needs to take more care about where he puts his car, I think Massa needs to start paying attention to the cars around him, and what they’re doing on track. More than once this year, and last year, he’s been involved in incidents where another driver has come out and said “he just turned in on me” or “he didn’t leave me any room” or “he just didn’t see me”. Too many for them to be all the other driver’s fault.

      Think back to Monaco earlier this year, another incident with Lewis. Yes, Lewis made a dumb move that probably wasn’t going to pay off. But Schumacher and Lewis at the same corner earlier on in the race had enough capacity to not only attempt something at that corner, in traffic, but be aware of where the other car was and leave space. Massa fails far too often at that, in my book. Either he feels he doesn’t have to give space to the other driver (possibly because he feels the need to stamp some form of control on the racetrack, as he’s not allowed to do it within the team), or he just doesn’t seem to be aware of where another driver is, was, or might be going.

      Equally, he might be annoyed at Hamilton barging past him in qualifying to get some clear air. But it’s not the first time that Massa would be guilty of dawdling along at a snail’s pace on the racing line during a qualifying session, or holding up other drivers. I don’t blame Lewis for wanting to get him out of the way.

      Bias disclaimer (for the fanbois):
      I like the McLaren team.
      I dislike the Ferrari team.
      I like Massa.
      I dislike Lewis.

      Hopefully those contradictions will either fuse your brains, or help you understand that just because I have come to view things differently to you, does not mean that you are correct, and I am biased and wrong.

      1. I am aware that this was not (in the grand scheme of things) a particularly dangerous accident. I am just trying to be understanding of a young man at the edge of his temper.

        To us on our sofas these look like run-of-the-mill incidents, but to sit inside a car and be hit at over a hundred miles an hour must be terrifying. You brought up Monaco, when Massa was put into the tunnel wall. How could he not be traumatised by that?

        All this will have played on his mind throughout the last hour of the race. Again, I think Massa reacted badly. But I can still show some sympathy for him after what must have been a very trying day. These guys have a really tough job.

      2. More than once this year, and last year, he’s been involved in incidents where another driver has come out and said “he just turned in on me” or “he didn’t leave me any room” or “he just didn’t see me”. Too many for them to be all the other driver’s fault.

        Coincidentally, this another driver always happens to be just one person

        1. No, Webber, to name one off the top of my head, has made comments along the same lines about Massa’s driving.

          And either way, as the saying goes “It can’t always be the other guy’s fault.” If Massa finds himself constantly getting hit by drivers he can’t see or hasn’t made room for, then he’s partly to blame.

          1. Coulthard was probably the most outspoken about his “love” for Massa’s driving:
            Youtube: David Coulthard Swears About Massa

      3. I agree with that Hairs.

  26. Lewis shouldn’t have drama with Massa but Montoya then the Pop Corn is on

  27. In my eyes, Lewis is no longer a good driver. He is quick, but so are many drivers. He just lacks so many necessary talents or controls. He is far from the real deal.

    Even when he won the WDC, he did it against the easiest opponent (Massa). Some might argue that Massa was better then than he is now, but thats just an excuse to try give Lewis’s championship win some value.

    When you compile all of Lewis’s pro’s and Cons, you cant help but think he is no were near Alonso or Vettel.

    1. Hamilton was a very very lucky champion. his brazilian race was a disaster when he should have made it a easy one. only a mistake from someone else gave him the title.

      1. Nonsense – if you claim he won the championship against just Massa, what about the rest of the field? Was it just those two that started the 2008 season? He won it against some 19 or so other competitors. Lucky? Don’t think so…

      2. I agree Hamilton was very very lucky. How he won against Ferrari and FIA simultaneously still amazes me.

    2. What about in 2007 when he bet Alonso in the same car?

      1. He tied with Alonso on points in a team that was 100% backing Lewis run by a principle who was personally invested in Lewis.

        You do the math.

        1. Anthony Hamilton will give you a different version of the race as Lewis was in second at Monaco chasing first ;-)

          1. in an interview in a french magazine, Jo Ramirez who was close to mclaren for many years, admitted that mclaren wasn’t backing Alonso as they were behind hamilton. clearly, hamilton was the favourite

          2. Hmm, a rookie was given preferential treament over a 2 times WDC, who was told to hang tight behind Alonso while Anthony was going mental in the Mclaren garage knowing Lewis was in for the win. combine that with Alonso`s driving Lewis off the track at Spa……….but I digrest.

          3. Hamilton was a brilliant rookie and was fully backed up by Dennis since he was a kid. to be combined with the fact that alonso on the other hand was probably expecting to receive a better treatment considering his 2 WDC.

          4. Before the season started De La Rosa was telling about how the next McLaren was designed for Alonso. They were full out on making Alonso the champion.

            How on earth could they expect a rookie to become the champion?

            In fact they GAVE Alonso the win in Monaco 2007. The stewards investigated the way they let Alonso win, but didn’t penalise the team. If you read the verdict it’s 100% clear that Hamilton would have won that race if the team hadn’t held him back during qualifying and twice (!) during the race.

            Obviously when Alonso started threatening the team when he couldn’t deal with hamilton being faster, that’s when they stopped backing Alonso. Hamilton just had a bigger chance of winning the title than Alonso had.

            Makes perfect sense that they back the better driver more than the no 2. Alonso thinks this is perfectly normal when he’s the better driver in the team, why not the other way around?

        2. Ah, you are Spanish?

  28. Some people have mentioned that the impact of Alonso have affected Massa’s reactions, but perhaps it would be more pertinent to consider the impact of Button on Hamilton’s driving?

    1. To a point. Button has been mostly error-free and consistently improving in line with the McLaren, maybe, but it’s not as though he’s changed much from last year. The accumulative effect may have had a toll, though, exposing Hamilton’s errors and incident-filled races all the more.

      I just get the impression the Hamilton-McLaren relationship is on very thin ice just now and has been since earlier on in the season. Had there been elsewhere ‘equivalent’ for him to go (Ferrari, RBR) he’d have gone. Button meanwhile looks very well embedded at McLaren (you never know though, at least the idea of him going to Ferrari to join Alonso sounds possible). Reckoning time for Hamilton. He can’t really afford the same kind of season next year, but he may very well have the same performance gap to the Red Bull in 2012. So will he adapt?

  29. Hamilton fans will says Massa needs to get a grip, Hamilton haters will agree with Massa completely.

    Which means whatever point I was going to make completely arbritrary and pretty ointless.

  30. Hamilton fans will says Massa needs to get a grip, Hamilton haters will agree with Massa completely.

    Which means whatever point I was going to make completely arbitrary and pretty pointless.

    1. Trenthamfolk (@)
      25th September 2011, 19:43

      You should make it none-the-less… your comments are as valid as anyone else’s, including mine :-)

      1. Ok. But I’ll make my point through some else’s words…

        you don’t need to break down the incident in that detail to see why it was Hamilton’s fault and why he got a penalty. He was behind, Massa was ahead, and Hamilton ran into him. There’s nothing more to it than that.

        …and Massa, an emotional guy, was frustrated post race. I really can’t see what else anyone has to add other than this.

  31. As much as I like to see lewis battling to move up the field, and I can sort of see what he was planning to do (I think); I feel he sometimes gets too caught up in the moment.
    Was there really such a rush to pass Massa?

    Sure, Massa was on the back-foot, but someone of lewis’ capability must know they can get passed within the next lap or so.

  32. As a big Lewis fan, yes he drives very, very stupidly sometimes but I don’t think he’ll ever put anybody’s life in danger. Lewis wass to blame here, and he got a drive through penalty for it. Chapter closed as far as I was concerned. This was the long race and Massa’s obviously frustrated. And after having so many incidents with Lewis he’s bound to be angry. Who knows, other drivers might’ve said or done more. He made his point by interrupting during the interview. Lewis didn’t take the bait, that shows he has some brain.

    One more point. They say Senna matured during the 1992 season. Give the guy some more time and hopefully a decreasing amount of crashes. He’ll get better! :D

  33. Massa should shut up and think about himself. After the penalty Lewis was behind Massa and he finished way ahead. And the penalty was just ridiculous. From the footage in TV, I believe that Massa slid a bit into the turn, was too slow and because of that Lewis hit him. Constant slamming, criticism and penalties would help no one and I can understand that his season goes from bad to worse. Especially after most of the penalties were too harsh. Lewis is still one of the best, he can overtake like no other and is very good in the wet. Vettel’s only ability is to drive away and no fighting, that unfortunately winning his championship. From my point of view, I agree with Nick. Lewis needs to finish this year, then find his inner peace and get a good car to fight for the title in 2012.

    1. Button also finished 54 seconds ahead of Alonso even with the mid-race SC. Obviously the McLaren was a far superior car to the Ferrari in the race, hence it isn’t really a huge surprise that Hamilton cleared Massa. Furthermore, Massa was caught out by the timing of the SC as he said in the interview in relation to his tyre strategy.

  34. Stephen Higgins
    25th September 2011, 18:30

    Massa is still bitter about losing the title 2008 and cannot bring himself to admit he has been blown away by Alonso.

    He had to look of a man resinged to losing his seat, possibly sooner rather than later, and to be honest he has never been the same driver since his accident.

    Sad to see.

    1. How on Earth does that apply in this situation?

      He had a puncture as a result of another drivers actions.

      You’re basically saying that Massa shouldn’t complain because it’s not like he had a chance at decent points anyway.

      1. He had a puncture as a result of another drivers actions.

        Also he could not overtake because of the puncture as a result of another drivers actions.

    2. That’s ridiculous, as he has no reason to be bitter to Hamilton over 2008.

      The only people he can be bitter about, completely justifiably, are Briatore, Symonds and Piquet.

  35. Malassas is just a joke now. The reason he had Hamilton climbing on the back of him is because he is slow. The reason why Hamilton passed him, after Hamilton was dropped to 20th is because Massa is slow. Massa finished behind Hamilton, who finished 11 seconds behind Alonso, because Massa is slow. His lame tantrum does not gainsay the stopwatch and the results. If Ferrari were not a team that prefered to have one driver act as a footstool for the other, he would be out of the sport as of the end of this season.

    1. Trenthamfolk (@)
      25th September 2011, 19:45

      Amen to that DaveW… COTD

    2. So since Button beat Alonso by 54 seconds, does that make Fernando a joke and slow?

      1. Trenthamfolk (@)
        26th September 2011, 21:38

        Yes!

  36. A deserved penalty for Hamilton, a justifiable response from Massa and a sensible reaction from Hamilton.

    I don’t know what’s worse, Hamilton getting in bother or people going to extreme lengths to justify his actions, regardless of the outcome.

    1. Trenthamfolk (@)
      25th September 2011, 19:15

      Massa is lucky he didn’t get a foot in the face, and it’s testament to Hamilton’s self control that it didn’t come to that. Massa think’s he’s smart, but he’s not. He’s slow. End of story.

      1. …yet again, Massa’s speed, or lack of, has nothing to do with this situation and in no way should it be factored in.

        1. Trenthamfolk (@)
          25th September 2011, 22:24

          I disagree, it has everything to do with the situation! Need I point out that this incident happened in a ‘race’, and need I point out where Massa finished the ‘race’? ‘Races’ are everything to do with speed! I’d have thought you’d have gathered this already…

          Massa’s subsequent behaviour was unprofessional, childish and provocative, and that’s to top and bottom of the situation.

  37. Hey, if you’re annoyed at all at Massa’s antics and words this weekend just remember Brazil 2008 :D

  38. In my view, this incident was EXACTLY the same as Webber and Hamilton at the same corner last year. Then, Hamilton was put out of the race, let alone given the puncture, yet it was deemed a racing incident. Now where is the consistency in that?

    I dont mind if hamilton did deserve the penalty, but if he did then surely Mark should have had one last year?

    1. this incident was EXACTLY the same as Webber and Hamilton at the same corner last year

      No they weren’t, they were completely different.

      Last year Hamilton and Webber were side-by-side in a corner and made contact. Racing incident.

      This year Hamilton was behind Massa and turned into his rear wheel causing contact. Clear penalty.

      1. I agree it was a very different incident and last years was far more complex. However this type f incident happens pretty much every race and only a few get punished. Schumacher spun someone out recently in a similar move(I think at monza) but was not penalised. Yet someone else (I think Sutil) did get penalised at the same race a bit earlier for the same sort of thing.

        I am getting a bit annoyed at the inconsistency in the rule enforcements, at some corners you are allowed to go off the circuit but at others you get penalised, some crashes go unpunished where other identical ones are punished. Some moves are great passes where identical ones where an opponent turns in early etc are punished! I do talk to some casual fans that are baffled by all of this and it puts them off a bit. Just like the offside rule in football baffles and puts off casual football fans.

        They also seem to use some rules to punish people (Going off circuit) for other incidents……

        1. this type f incident happens pretty much every race and only a few get punished. Schumacher spun someone out recently in a similar move(I think at monza) but was not penalised. Yet someone else (I think Sutil) did get penalised at the same race a bit earlier for the same sort of thing.

          I am getting a bit annoyed at the inconsistency in the rule enforcements

          Until you can come up with some solid examples I can’t agree with your claim of “inconsistency”.

          1. Those are solid examples.They definitely occured but I am just unsure of the other driver that was punished (pretty certain it was a force india though)
            Well if someone can help me out here with which race the force india got punished and Schumacher did not?

            I am sure it was the last race but I might be wrong. It was replayed on the TV a few times but I have deleted the last races due to Hard drive space.

            However you must agree that this type of incident is very common and I can’t recall all of them being punished. In fact I can’t recall many being punished. To me it is a racing incident and it was simply unfortunate that massas tyre was punctured.

          2. Those are solid examples

            No they aren’t. Who is Schumacher supposed to have hit at Monza (maybe)? At which unnamed track did Sutil possibly hit some unidentified driver?

  39. I think Massa has every right to be angry, After all he was running 5th & Lewis clipping him hurt his chances of a strong result.

    Fact of the matter is Lewis screwed up, He made a mistake which not only cost himself time but also comprimised another drivers race, In my view the penalty was completely justified.

    I know others pointed out to Schumacher running over Perez & Rosberg making contact with Perez without penalty’s however I see them as different deals.
    Rosberg hitting Perez didn’t really harm Perez’s race is any way & neither did Schumacher running over him.

    In my mind the fact that Hamilton directly affected Massa’s race made the incident more worthy of a penalty. Had he just took off his own front wing & done no damage to Massa’s race I’d say there should be no penalty.

    Final point on the stewards.
    I know a lot of Hamilton fans believe there is often some grand conspiracy where Lewis gets penalty’s while others don’t.
    However to believe that you have to believe that all of the steward’s (2 totally different stewards each race) are biased against Lewis & that every driver steward is also biased against Lewis & I find that very hard to believe.

    Incidently the FIA have bio’s for race stewards each weekend on there site:
    http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Pages/pre_event.aspx

  40. I don’t know why you make it such a big deal of it.
    In my opinion Massa’s act is completely understandble.
    I consider it as an “emotional outburst”.
    I mean, he hasn’t pulled off a good result so far this year,clearly his luck has been bad throught this season and he has had too many incidents with Hamilton.
    And one more thing,when Massa touched Hamilton in the interview paddock Hamilton responded to him “Don’t ever touch me again.”
    Something else to consider.

    (Apologise my english.)

    1. I agree with you, but I think I’ve got some kind of culture clash going on here – I don’t understand, for example, why people get worked up if a driver waves his hand or shakes his fist while driving past another. But I guess this is a super big deal?

      Adam Cooper reports the chain of events as, Felipe tried to say something to Lewis as they got out of the car, and Lewis walked away from him. Felipe pats/slaps Lewis on the shoulder and says, Good job, mate, and gives him a thumbs up, and walks away. Lewis turns after him and says, Don’t touch me. All of these things, from Lewis walking away after the race to Lewis telling Felipe not to touch him, are just fine in my book? They’re irritated, they’re wrung out, it’s good it’ll be a week or so before they see each other again.

  41. everyone makes mistakes… to me it was just a mistake, why didnt webber get penalised last year when him and hamilton collided, and hamiltons mclaren was done for. Hamilton shouldnt have really been penalised for that, and massa needs to calm a bit.

  42. This thread has really push my buttons.

    FIA inconsistency or not Hamiltons driving mistake cost Massa a top 6 finish and set him around 1 minute behind where he would have been.

    Flashback 2 weeks to Italy Schumacher was torn to shreads by the same people crying about Hamilon today because his driving was dangerous and deserved a penalty. WHAT!

    In both these cases i think the FIA made the correct decisions however Lewis did not.

    Onto today Lewis made the worst attempted move i’ve seen by any of the world champions this year actually on par with Schumacher and Petrov in Turkey. In both cases the car had been slowed and were then inexplicably drove into the back of another car. Massa had every right to be angry with what happened but his responce may have been overboard although what do we know about what went on before that.

    1. Worst attempted move? Really Schumacher on Perez was not worse? Hamiltons was a slightly misjudged move, schumachers was sheer stupidity! Only one resulted in a car flying through the air. Hamiltons move could have been a fantastic overtake if had been less than an inch further back (that is less than an inch at 40 odd MPH with a wing the driver can not see and on the dirty side of the track) You really should understand the difficulty of driving these cars to realise that Hamilons incident was merely a racing incident and one that happens in every single race at least once. I would bet that massa has done exactly the same at some point along with every other driver on the track.

  43. Hamilton wasn’t trying to undercut, the problem is those kerbs on the outside.
    They damage the cars when they are run over.
    When Webber forced Hamilton wide last year, it was terminal for the Mclaren.
    This race track is more dangerous than Monaco.

  44. Right, can we rewind back to Monaco.

    Lewis hit Massa. Lewis admitted it was his own fault, after watching the replays and quite rightly so. It was a dumb move.

    Fast-forward to Spa, where Lewis was taken out in what most people believe was a 50/50 incident with Kobayashi, after watching the replays, he openly said it was his fault.

    In this case, it was not Lewis’ fault. You could clearly see the tyres lock up, and therefore there was NOTHING he could have done to prevent it. It also appeared Massa drifted off to the middle of the track slightly. It was a racing incident.

    After almost taking Hamilton off in qualifying, and subsequently blaming him for it, I think it was incredibly childish and unprofessional of him to:

    1) Immediately blame him without watching the replays.

    2) Making sarcastic little comments like he did.

    I did have a lot of respect for Felipe, especially having the man-fruit to come back after his life-threatening incident at Budapest, but after this I’ve lost most of that respect.

    1. In this case, it was not Lewis’ fault. You could clearly see the tyres lock up, and therefore there was NOTHING he could have done to prevent it.

      Assuming the brake locking was the reason for the contact, what he should have done was brake earlier and less hard.

      But you don’t need to break down the incident in that detail to see why it was Hamilton’s fault and why he got a penalty. He was behind, Massa was ahead, and Hamilton ran into him. There’s nothing more to it than that.

      1. Trenthamfolk (@)
        25th September 2011, 22:06

        Fault and blame aside, what Massa did afterwards was unprofessional, provocative and childish. There’s noting more to it than that.

      2. If you use car lenghts as a marker then you can see HAM brake slightly ealier, but they are playing the last off the late brakers, Massa hangs `around` trying too dictate the apex speed Hamilton turns in an clips the rear right. The End.

      3. He was behind, Massa was ahead, and Hamilton ran into him. There’s nothing more to it than that.

        So using that logic, LH wasnt to blame for the incident at Spa?

        1. I think you just answered your own question?

      4. It reminds me a bit of the clash between them at Japan in 2008. Who got a penalty??

  45. There are two types of defense. Positive defense and Negative defense. What Alonso did to Vettel at Monza was positive defense. What MSC did to Hamilton was negative defense.

    What Alonso did to Webber at spa was positive defense, what koby did to Hamilton at spa was negative defense.

    How Vettel defended his position at Monaco this year was positive defense and so on…

    Look how Hamilton made it easy for others at the start. His start wasn’t bad almost overtook Webber but then the situation changed so he accepted to loose few places than to risk a collision. Had it been Massa he definitely would have touched someone. Alonso made it easier for Webber at this race and also at Spa he left Webber enough room. Also he left enough room for Vettel in Monza. The good drivers and overtakers are also often good at giving others room and they know when to stop defending and that they been overtaken.

    That is why as Webber said at Spa and Vettel said at Monza that they have confidence when overtaking top drivers that ‘they will leave enough room not so much but enough’ room.

    Massa and some others like MSC(Koby a good overtaker but at Spa i think he could have made it little bit easier for Lewis) just don’t understand this. They blindly keep on defending position and therefore risk of collision increases very much.

    The overtaker now have no confidence, he thinks the driver ahead will not let him pass even if he makes a right/legal/acceptable move and will endlessly defend, so he tries some different/unconventional move to get ahead.

    After doing this a lot some drivers develop this NEGATIVE reputation. You see Hamilton done so many overtaking today. Why only with Massa he collided? Because when he approached Massa to overtake his brain automatically tells him that he is in that category of drivers who will not make it easy not positively but negatively.

    Massa needs to learn when to give up defending. Lewis just didn’t had confidence that Massa will allow him past even with a correct/legal/acceptable move, so he pounced at the first opportunity and didn’t want to stuck behind him for long time. This wouldn’t have happened if overtaker knew that the person ahead is positive and will give up if he is properly overtaken.

    1. It’s a good point about Massa’s negative defending (to which you can add his clumsy overtaking).

      However I’d say this incident shows the big mistake Hamilton has been making this year: going for the overtake a bit too early. He would have caught Massa later that lap or the next, he´s actually very easy to get past if you don’t give him a chance to collide. Massa braked very heavily into the turn, Hamilton adjusting locked up and bingo, puncture for Massa.

      Hamilton doesn’t need to adopt Button’s strategy, he just has to find his own balance, wait a few more turns sometimes. That will make all the difference.

    2. I’m sorry, but that’s rubbish.

      First, Schumacher and Kamui both had every right to do what they did.

      ‘they will leave enough room not so much but enough’ room.

      It was Lewis that pushed Kamui off the track.

      Lewis has made many errors. Latest of which was to drive into the right rear of Massa at a left hand turn.

      How exactly do you make this Massa’s fault?

  46. I cannot accept the argument that all these incidents are entirely the fault of (Insert your driver here) , clearly Hamilton was the car attempting to overtake and should not have collided with Massa, however I am beginning to think that Massa is defending against a faster Hamilton harder than is sensible using the Senna tactic of “if you try to pass me we will crash” he should look to Fernando who has sensibly avoided colliding with Mark Webber when he probably could have banged wheels with Webber and claimed Webber was at fault, the result is evident in the points table.

  47. A simple apology from Hamilton would have been enough,i can understand Massa,s frustration when you politely ask to speak in private and the other person just walks away.

  48. I think Brundle summed it up the day before, on a qualifying out lap you can travel at any speed, but Massa mistimed Hamiltons run and was left for dust.

    As for `the incedent` that wasn`t a incedent into turn 10, chip chip chip, they wear Him down eventually, well done, Ive never met a sychophant, but I presume your feeling very proud tonight.

  49. The criticism Hamilton gets after such incidents is unbelievable! Other drivers get involved in similar incidents and you don’t hear much about it. Hamilton got stuck behind Schumacher for 27 laps at Monza due to Schumacher’s unreasonable driving and not much is said about it.

    Hamilton was involved in an incident today and got penalised for it. What’s the bashing all about. We’ve soon forgotten about Vettel who was called the “CRASH KID” on this forum. Because he is doing well this year, he is the best driver anyone has seen. The inconsistency of people’s views is nothing different from the inconsistency displayed by the stewards. I don’t have a problem with the stewards punishing Hamilton when they deem it fit. I have a problem with their inconsistency when similar incidents occur and i’m sure people on this forum can find so many examples to support that.
    Massa’s behaviour after the race today in nothing less than provocation and FIA needs to look into that. There was absolutely no need for that.
    The problem we have is not because Hamilton is a dangerous driver but because we have inconsistent stewards and people forgetting that we are watch Racing and not a prossession of cars. The fact that teams factor safety car in their strategy, most especially in Singapore should tell you that accidents do happen. I don’t believe for a second any F1 driver goes on the track to deliberately cause accidents.
    Most overtakes, apart from some of the ones that occur on the straights, partly depend on the driver being overtaken to be reasonable and leaving enough room. We all know Hamilton can overtake and the number of overtakes he’s made during the Singapore race, this year and previous years’ races speaks for itself. How many times have other drivers tried to overtake Hamilton and they’ve crash? It’s because he plays it fair. Why can’t other drivers do the same? He got stuck behind Schumacher and he got the stick for it. He makes a solid pass during this race and no one mentions it. The guy is having a bad year and some drivers do so give him a break.
    Vettel had the same opportunity he’s got this year and he almost blew it last year. This year hasn’t been good for Hamilton but that doesn’t mean he is a crap driver. We all know he is good!!

    1. Schumacher’s unreasonable driving

      Unreasonable? Maybe. Illegal? No.

      1. that fact that his team boss (Ross), not his engineer, came on the radio to tell him on two occassions to give enough room to Lewis says it all. Yet it wasn’t investigated. This inconsistency by the stewards does nothing but damage the sports!

        1. that fact that his team boss (Ross), not his engineer, came on the radio to tell him on two occassions to give enough room to Lewis says it all.

          The fact that he didn’t get a penalty and that the driver he was racing against didn’t accuse him of breaking the rules (at least, not after the race) says rather more.

          There’s an explanation of why it was legal here:

          2011 Italian Grand Prix Mercedes team review: Schumacher fifth after Hamilton battle

          1. The fact that a steward said the only reason he didn’t get a penalty was because the matter wasn’t reviewed, says yet more.

            Reasonable people can disagree on the Monza “blocking”, and I’m not sure Schumacher broke the black letter rule, but it seems that the precedents get interpreted with a thumb on the scale depending on the party.

  50. Rosberg causing a incedent that sent Perez wide at turn 1…….no penalty

    Schumacher becoming a hazard to Singapore ATC………….reprimand

    Hamilton clipping Massa`s rear right during braking into the fasteat corner on the circuit……….Drive through.

    Occams Razor…..again…

    1. +1.. exactly my sentiments

    2. Occam’s razor: the simplest explanation is probably the correct one.

      The simplest explanation is that Hamilton broke the rules and the other two didn’t. And sure enough that’s exactly what happened.

      Hamilton drove into the back of another rival’s car and punctured his tyre, ruining his race. Penalty.

      Rosberg was cleanly down the inside of Perez, the pair made minor contact and Perez continued. No penalty.

      Schumacher caused an accident which eliminated himself… and that’s it. No penalty (reprimand).

      I fail to see how anyone can have a problem with any of that.

      1. Keith your argument is flawed i’m afraid. Are you saying the end result should determine whether a driver gets punished?

        1. I’m saying this is why they were penalised, as far as I’m concerned it’s consistent with what we’ve seen before.

          The end result alone does not determine the penalty but it clearly has a bearing. Whether it should or it shouldn’t is a different matter.

          1. The end result should never be taken into account as it is completely irrelevant. What would happen if by some freak accident Massa had spun out and was killed?

            Taking the result into account makes the decision far too complicated and leads to different decisions for the same incidents. It is far simpler to punish the action rather than the result and this would also lead to far more consistent penalties. Just look at monaco! What is the difference between a clean pass and a crash when the lines and car placings are identical? Things happen so quickly in F1 the outcomes can be very different given an inch difference in track position, that inch could be the difference between a brilliant pass or a punishable collision, put that together with the pointless mirrors and you get a recipe for inconsistency.

      2. The only thing I had a problem with was Rosberg’s corner cut at the start. He made up 3 places by doing it.

        On F1 2011 you’d get a DSQ for Illegal overtake.

        1. I only counted one, Massa, and he gave that back.

          1. Yep, he only got past Massa there and Massa repassed into turn 7.

      3. fair enough! So why did Lewis got a penalty in Hungary when he “forced” DiResta off track? Rosberg did force Perez off track. Same situation.
        Usually when the faulty driver breaks something and also lose time in the pits, there is no penalty … well it is what I obeserved with Schumacher vs Petrov for instance.

        1. Drivers force each other off the track in overtaking or defending all the time, that’s nothing new. Needlessly spinning your car into the path of another is rather different.

          1. Keith, you used this same argument to justify hamilton’s penalty for forcing another driver off the track. Now you using the same argument to justify other drivers not penalised for forcing others off that track as normal. do i smell anti Hamilton sentiments here? I’m sure the rule book states that a driver should not force another driver off the track?

        2. +1.. Good question

      4. What about Webber taking Hamilton out last year? did he get a penalty? NO! Yet Hamilton’s race was ended…

        1. The two moves were completely different. Webber was alongside Hamilton, not behind him.

        2. Good point by Ro-Bert!
          It was clearly a mistake by Lewis.
          Found the drive thru a bit harsh but you can’t argue against it either.
          But my feeling says if he did what Nico did, he would have been punished for that as well.

  51. He didn’t get a penalty not because the stewards investigated and found nothing wrong. They didn’t investigate it all. That is the difference. If Hamilton had complained after the race, he would have still got the stick for it.

  52. Keith,
    If I remember well, Perez said that the contact with Schumacher punctured his rear right tyre, and forced him to pit earlier than planned. He added to go for a third and final stint of around half race distance, and couldn’t defend from Massa’s late charge because his tyres were shot.
    Actually, Schumacher’s move had consequences on Perez’s race and result…

    1. Perez said that the contact with Schumacher punctured his rear right tyre, and forced him to pit earlier than planned.

      I see where you’re coming from on this one but Perez was able to pit under the safety car so it didn’t cost him anything. If you look at the lap chart you’ll see he was eighth before and after it:

      2011 Singapore Grand Prix lap chart

      You say he was unable to defend from Massa, but Massa himself was disadvantaged by the timing of the safety car.

      That said I can’t say for sure the stewards took all this into account. As always, we would all be better off if they published their reasoning.

    2. Actually the fact that Senna later collided with Perez (he/his team was penalized for that, never had a clue of the incident during the race) at the restart might have hurt Perez more.

      1. I was also disappointed to not have seen that incident when I heard about it afterwards. I suppose FOM were showing Button trying to get through the back markers, and the Webber overtake, etc., but a repeat later on might have been helpful.

        On the (lack of) penalty for Schumacher, it seems a bit open to interpretation, but that’s with most of the rules.

        A rule that you risk a penalty if you hit someone and cause them to puncture/need new nose, causing them a large time loss, seems to be rather clear cut and predictable.

        And if then only a reprimand follows when you take yourself out and the other guy happens to not lose too much time (due to “your” SC), well, that seems to sort it pretty well for me.

        Keith is absolutely right in again pointing to the reasoning being published as a good fix for part of these discussions.

  53. mcl02,
    I think Lewis was penalised in Hungary because his move to get back on track was considered “dangerous driving” that could have had dramatic consequences, worse than just forcing Di Resta off track a little.

  54. Like Ive said before its better to be penalised in race than afterwards, better to ruin a race than 2 for me good call.

  55. Meanwhile on the other cubicle of the McLaren garage the cool, collected, debonair, Jenson “I need a scarf flying in the Wind” Button goes about his business of driving fast and being a gentleman about it.

    1. Button was helped greatly by hamiltons attack on Webber. Button was never really in a position where he needed to overtake anyone (apart from slow backmarkers). He had a great drive and fully deserved his second place but the two drives were under completely different circumstances.

  56. I only wrote what Perez said when interviewed, it was his point of view, but seemed to make sense.

    But I agree with you on the fact that Schumacher ended his own race in a spectacular way and I think his painful back will remind him of his mistake for a few days.

    On the opposite, Hamilton managed to finish 5th after two more pitlane visits than planned (front wing change + drive through).

    Therefore, a penalty might appear more legitimate in Hamilton’s case, otherwise he wouldn’t have been disadvantaged by his mistake, whereas Massa lost a lot of positions while getting back to the pits on three valid wheels.

    Of course stewards judge incidents based on drivers positions relative to each other, and the dangerous aspect of their moves, but it seems appropriate and sensible for me to also make sure that a driver who spoils another driver’s race, will also lose time because of his mistake…

    This is my opinion.

    1. I think your about right with that.

  57. All drivers make stupid errors from time to time,
    but lewis hamilton seems to make them in every race.

    The guy is going to cause a serious accident sooner
    or later, maybe ban him for rest of seasons races.

    1. Really. How about banning Schumacher too for his unbelievably dangerous error?

  58. I like lewis he,s a talanted driver and a nice guy but lets look at the facts. At the moment he is driving like a tool.

  59. something id like to point out is that on the BBC Forum Martin Whitmarsh said that had the roles been reversed (Between Massa & Hamilton during the contact) he’d have pushed for Massa to get a penalty.

    This suggest’s tht he not only believes it was Lewis’ fault but also that he feels a penalty for that was fair.

  60. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEUVZXR18_4

    Look how Massa is hitting Lewis. I know it was sarcastic but he didn’t hit Lewis very softly either. You can see the video Lewis was quite shaken at 0.36 second. If i was Lewis i would have slapped Massa very hard after that ugly act of his.
    Poor Massa is getting beaten so badly by Alonso and he can’t do anything about Alonso so that is how he releases his frustration.

    Okay i agree for a second that it was 100% Hamilton’s fault but he also received penalty for it. Why such kind of fuming and getting physical after the race. If that is the case Perez should have been more angrier with MSC.

  61. Lewis causes incidents like this this almost every race weekend.

    Lewis crashing into someone (usually massa) happens more than Vettel winning the race/taking pole, WOW.

    Lewis is like one of those kids who gets into a lot of fights at school and the parents/fans always say the other kids at fault. The common factor week in week out is Lewis. The forums are always “Lewis and X driver”.

    I think those that support lewis are not doing him any favours. He really needs to change cause if he keeps this up he will never do well.

    On a plus side for me Button has to be number one at Maclaren.

    1. As the championship is over it’s time now we start calculating how many times Lewis have been tested as ‘a crash test dummy’

  62. Massa have decided no more Mr.Nice guy,I think that was a racing incident yeah but things like that are happening a lot from Hamilton.He is experienced & should know as Massa is in the inside will brake a bit earlier & will need time to accelerate,Lewis misjudge that.I think the main problem Massa is experiencing the pressure whether that is within him & Ferrari applying as Perez has recently did a test for Ferrari,& I am having a feeling that Ferrari might have said to Massa if you don’t perform well in the last 6 races you may need to give your seat back.

    1. Massa actually breaked much later which was what caused hamiltons misjudged move.

      1. Are you suggesting Massa was wrong to pick that breaking point?

  63. I used to like Massa…

  64. No accident can justify Massa’s reaction today.That scale of arrogance is unseen in F1.Therefore whatever driver or team you support should not tolerate his behaviour.Its a shame for F1.If they can’t control their emotions,no matter who the driver is,it doesnt deserve to be there.

    1. That scale of arrogance is unseen in F1

      You can’t have been watching F1 for too long then based on that!

      I don’t think arrogant is even the right word for what Massa did also.

      1. You can call it arrogance bad attitude or whatever is still not acceptable.Massa grabbed Lewis quite strong.There is no need for physical contact in F1(specialy in a middle of an interview).This is not rugby or football and its a bad sample for the fans.Have you ever seen fans in F1 fighitng or pushing in the grandstands like in a stadium?That is simply wrong.F1 is one of the finest sports in the world attracting a high class fans,important sponsors,traveling around the world and lately attracting so many celebreties.I have not been watching F1 for too long but the F1 environment today its not the same as in the 90.This sport attracts these days ten times more viewers than in the 90’s.Many more viewer are to join,and watching Massa’s behaviour its not the best invite for them.

        1. If you were a driver, and another one ruined your qualifying lap, knocked you out of contention for good points and then refused even to talk to you about it….

          You’d be pretty upset as well.

          I’d actually disagree about Massa’s behavior being bad for F1. I mean, people like drama. F1 is so sanitized compared to say, NASCAR that it might not actually be a bad thing!

  65. The penalty handed to Lewis for his collision does show that this season the FIA has a special rule book for Lewis – one that says penalty is the only option.

    Lewis made a judgment error during this overtake attempt – his front wing had obviously not cleared Massa’s rear tire when he decided to turn in. As fans debating races, we have to be careful about what we are asking for. Do we really want drivers hesitant to make overtakes b/c if it goes wrong they get penalize? Do we want drivers sitting and waiting for undercut and DRS zones before they make an overtake?
    Looking back at many races, I see many instances when drivers clip and punctures another driver’s wheel without receiving a penalty. Webber did it to Lewis in Germany 2009, Lewis to BAR in Brazil 2009, Lewis to Vettel in Silverstone 2010 to name a few. In fact, it seems that a penalty is only given for collisions if the victimized driver is taken out of the race, rather has a compromised race. Vettel to Button in Spa 2010 and Buemi and Heidfeld early this year for example. In contrast, Webber and Hamilton incident in 2010 Singapore, or even this race’s Rosberg & MSC with Perez incidents all went without penalty because the victimized driver were able to continue (though some may argue that Lewis was the victim in the Webber/Lewis example – remember not in the FIAs book). Nevertheless, Massa and Lewis should have been able to continue Singapore without FIA interference.

    A note about Massa reaction is that that should never be allowed. It is understandable why it could happen, but it should never be encouraged and allowed. As public a figure, MAS is potentially communicating to his loyal fans a dislike for a fellow competitor. Fanatics can take this to another level if the opportunity permits. When the circus visits Brazil perhaps or even back to Silverstone… As sporting heros, they all have to ensure their behavior protects each other on and off the track.

    1. Does the word ‘repeated offender’ ring any bell? Neither can Hamilton hear hear it

      1. @GameR_K

        Wow you have been trolling way too much kid, time to get off the computer.

  66. Suuuuuure he could have caused such a BIG accident Felipe, by accidentally brushing the tip of his front wing on you in a slow corner. What a whining baby. After the penalties Massa was well ahead but who ended up way deeper in the points? Hamilton, because you’re a crap driver Felipe. You’re possibly the weakest driver in the entire field, short of Liuzzi or D’ambrosio.

    It seems more like Felipe is still sandy about 2008 and just joins up on the I-hate-lewis bandwagon a little too late.

    1. AND WHY CANT ANYONE SEE THAT LEWIS HAD A MOMENTARY LOCKUP WHILE SLOTTING IN BEHIND MASSA? I mean honestly, the guy is given no leeway to make a tiny mistake?

      1. If he is held to the high expectations that his fans of him, no.

      2. How does locking your brakes make you turn in too early?

      3. why can’t anyone see that Lewis had a momentary lockup

        And whose fault was that?

        1. Massa’s ‘fault’ in part for breaking hard and late. I can understand the rationale of the penalty, but that doesn’t mean that all incidents are 100% one driver’s fault. As in Monaco, Massa refuses to cede when others would have allowed the pace. His right – but you going to get caught in a collision too doing that. Webber is the same, or was in the days when he used to race.

          1. Massa can brake whenever he wants mate. It’s kinda up to Lewis not to drive into him.

      4. Momentarily in every race Lewis gets a lockup, it should be termed mockup

  67. If any other driver was facing criticism for doing what Hamilton did, he wouldn’t have nearly as many people defending him.

    1. But that other driver wouldn’t be facing even a fraction of the criticism Hamilton is facing now…

      1. Maybe they only make a fraction of the mistakes lewis makes. I mean he makes multiple mistakes most weekends (this season).

        There is a huge difference between supporting someone and making excuses for them. making excuses for someone doesn’t help them.

        1. Schumacher has made numerous mistakes this season and one almighty one in singapore, yet virtually no one is criticising him, Hamilton is involved in a very minor incident (it was unfortunate that massas tyre punctured) and people are saying he is dangerous.

          If you look at all of Hamiltons errors this season, virtually non are dangerous. And some of the penalties (Monaco) were totally undeserved while other penalties are deserved. I personally watch Racing for the racing which involves overtaking (not boring DRS overtakes), and overtaking at speed in an open wheel car leads to incidents. The more you overtake the more likely you are to be involved in an incident. Senna had more than his fair share of incidents including a couple of dangerous ones, Schumacher the same if not worse (Hill, Barichello anyone). It is racing and I would rather see minor crashes than see no overtaking. No it is not necessarily fair on the other driver, but then neither are safety cars, yellow flags, back markers etc etc etc.

  68. I think the main reason the debate goes every race weekend, and goes on & on is cause a lot Lewis’ fans just can’t just accept that Lewis is human and can make a mistake.

    Hamilton fans defend the most obvious mistakes he makes. This then rankles everyone else causing the ongoing discourse.

    If I was a Lewis fan I would be giving him heaps after all the mistakes he has been making.

  69. Lewis should be doing the following –
    1. He should stay in the same qualifying grid position when the race starts.
    2. He should never overtake others.
    3. He should be waiting for others to make mistakes to get a position.
    4. He should rely on pit stops.
    5. He should dive in such a manner that his tires last the entire race.
    Simply put “Thou shall not race”

    Common guys, F1 is not processional, we need drivers like Lewis, Alonso, Schumi, Kimi, etc. Mistakes/Luck do happen.

    1. Of course drivers make mistakes and of course they are expected to race for position and not just let the strategy do the work for them.

      But Hamilton has made far too many mistakes this year and yesterday’s was so unnecessary and avoidable you have to wonder if he’s learning from his past errors at all.

      1. Aren’t all incidents involving overtaking avoidable?

        Plus the monaco incidents show how hit and miss (pardon the pun) overtaking can be. One can be perfect the other a punishable offense purely due to the actions of the driver you are overtaking.

        If hamilton had been one inch further back we may well be saying what a great undercut that was. If he was 1cm further back we may be commenting on the fact that lewis lost his wing but massas trye was ok. At least Lewis’ incident happened during slightly misjudged overtaking move. Schumacher tried to drive straight through perez on a straight!

  70. Remember Alonso / Massa Nurburgring 2007

  71. Firstly, I’m no Lewis or Massa fan and I’m usually not too critical of any driver so long as they are performing and not looking to take an opportunity to make any excuses.

    Unfortunately Massa is at a stage where he knows he can no longer compete with his team mate – which most teams compare you with. While Lewis is losing out to Button, he knows he has the ability to fight back (possibly next year) whereas I believe Massa is now feeling the pressure of not being able to retain his seat against the might of Alonso. Hence the pent up frustration from Massa’s point of view and the combination of previous incidents (mostly involving Lewis) which got the better of him. Still, it’s unprofessional and how he reacted is a sign that the wheels are really starting to fall apart for Massa.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Massa starts considering other racing leagues. Perhaps he could have a crack at the numerous F1Fanatic F1 2011 virtual racing competitions appearing in the forum section. He could even race as his own profile. Perhaps Keith may need to set up a media pen on F1Fanatic for Massa to have a cry at another virtual racer – ‘cos I think most of the guys here would run him off the road at every opportunity if we knew he was racing online with us.

  72. If you ask me it’s Massa who’s the uncool one. Yes, Hamilton made an avoidable mistake and he was rightly penalised, but from what I’ve seen Hamilton has kept his cool about it. He keeping quiet and mature. I know Massa is frustrated that Hamilton’s has done silly things to him recently but it’s not like he’s doing it deliberately. Sour grapes that he lost the championship to him in 2008, perhaps? Or perhaps he’s frustrated that he’s getting pummeled by a vastly superior teammate?

    Hamilton also finished ahead of Massa and did a brilliant job recovering many lost championship points in the race, despite finding himself way down the field including being BEHIND Massa.

    Felipe, baby, be cool. Worry about your seat at Ferrari.

    1. Massa also got upset because Hamilton ignored him completely when he wanted to talk to him about it, before the incident in the press area

  73. Oh come on, how can one argue 5 pages about this?

    It’s quite clear just what has happened.

    1) Lewis made a mistake, not the first this year, when he collided with Felipe.

    2) Felipe was too arrogant and exaggerated the situation unnecessarily.

    That is all. You can’t justify the actions of either of them. They made mistakes.

    On a sidenote, Felipe’s English was worse than mine… which is a big thing.

    :D

  74. The problem is not that fact that Hamilton fans do not accept that he makes mistakes. I am a Hamilton fan and i don’t have tiny bit of an issue with him getting a penalty if the stewards deem so. What is frustration is the different rule being applied to other drivers that find themselves it the same situation. To make it worse, he gets a huge stick from commentators on this forum unlike the other drivers. compare Hamilton incident to that of Schumi. I haven’t seen anyone say much about it.

    I think its about time the stewards give us explanation on how they arrive at their decision just like they did with Hamilton and Button’s crash.

    BTW is not an fault for every incident he is involved in. Give the guy a break. this is racing and not a procession!

    1. There is a big difference between Schumi and Hamilton,the former never makes a fuss about other drivers, he keeps his own counsel.Only once I can recall him getting mad,and that was justifiable at Coulthard,he deserved it.

      Massa hardly “attacked” Lewis either,stupid accusations against him…….just a tap on the shoulder.Look how many times Massa has been “involved” with Lewis,can you blame him for seeing red.(no pun meant LOL)
      Lewis,being such a good driver will sort it all out in the end.Pity he won the WD C so early.

  75. LOL amazing how being a “fan” of the one or other driver makes one loose common sense :)

    Lewis is a champion, will be a racer and will win more titles in the future.

    Massa is not a champion, had his chance and is on his way out. He will never be a champion, Ferrari has Alonso, they talking to Button …. ???

    Bye-bye Massa and I hope to see the FIA take serious action against FM for doing what he did post-race, desperate losers react like that.

  76. Lewis Hamilton was a fault for the crash, but Felipe blew the whole thing out of proportion. We have seen that type of collision so many times since they changed the dimensions of the front wing in ’09. This wasn’t a ‘Lewis Hamilton driving too aggressively and dangerous’ accident, Lewis had pulled out of the overtake and was trying to filter in behind. Felipe Massa is just sour about everything that makes his already mediocre performances worse.

    At the end of the day, Felipe has 100 less points than his team mate, yet Lewis only has 17 less despite his retirements. That is the reason Felipe is trying to switch the attention away from himself.

    Personally, I feel as much as Lewis was at fault for the collision it was just a racing incident and no penalty was deserved. The stewards have been getting far too involved this season and it is getting to the point where pretty much every incident is under investigation. Do we really want races settled off the track?

    Little incidents like this shouldn’t be what the stewards investigate as it is just a result of close racing. Nobody was having a lunge or driving dangerously in this situation. They’ve implemented the new points system and drs to make people overtake more and then they are penalising people when they try this, I feel it is really hypocritical of the sport.

    People keep pointing the finger at Lewis this season. Personally I am disappointed with his results, but as much as his problems in Monaco and Canada deserved criticism, His last 2 problems have just been genuine mistakes that any other driver would make due to the design constraints of the car and the lack of vision the drivers have.

    Look at Alonso with Button in Canada, totally Alonsos fault, yet if Hamilton was where Button was there would have been Hammy bashing galore on here.

    Yes Lewis has made mistakes this season, but so have others. They’re just not on the radar as much.

  77. I got into F1 in the 2007 season because of Hamilton, his driving style finally brought some much needed excitement into the sport, and ever since I have been a big fan of F1 and Hamilton, I never miss a session, but sadly I have to agree with massa here, F1 is far too dangerous, you just have to look at how many injuries there has been in the last few years because of careless driving from the likes of hamilton, I can only go as far back as 2007, which is more than enough anyway, but we have had the serious injury to massa in 2009, oh wait no, that was because of a part falling off a brawn car and bouncing up off massas helmet. Ok, so you have kubicas crash then, he’s been out all season and has had to have serious surgery, oh wait, that wasn’t through F1, that was rallying wasn’t it. Ok then, look at kubicas crash in 2007, that was a horrible one! but wait, no, that wasn’t through dangerous driving was it, plus he was only out for one race just to be on the safe side, he wanted to race. fine then, what about webbers injury in 2008 when he broke his leg! oh god i’v done it again havn’t I, that was a cycling injury wasn’t it! Well even so, I still agree with massa, its just too dangerous, which is why I have came up with some great ideas for formula 1 which I hope the fia will have a serious look into. first of all, for qualifying, all the cars going out together is ridiculous, very dangerous, so let them go out 1 by 1, it might take a long time, but come on, safety first guys. Next on race day, we need to stop overtaking, its far too dangerous, instead they should all drive round in single file atleast 3 seconds behind the car in front, and if anyone gets any closer than that, lets give them a penalty at the end of the race, 25 seconds for everyone except hamilton, who should have 50 seconds because he is extra dangerous and we need to stop him from being exciting before too many people start watching formula 1, which is why I totally agree with the stewards giving hamilton all these penalties when they wouldn’t normally give them to anyone else. but this just isn’t far enough, it still needs to be safer, which is why they should remove the tires, have a railway track on the track, and have the cars drive round on the railway on there wheel rims, how safe is that!!! that will get rid of loads of crashes! and finally, why no rap all the cars and drivers in bubble wrap, this way even if something goes wrong, they won’t even break a nail! Now personally I think these ideas are just genius, and I hope the FIA look into it and bring them into force, please, let me know what you think?
    Next I would like to get in touch with other sports, like football, its far too dangerous, they need to stop all tackles, and instead just allow each team to take turns on going up field and shooting. Next golf, the balls need to stop coming off the ground, it will cause serious injury if it hits someone, all shots should be played along the floor and if it comes off the floor at all, they should be disqualified. Then theres darts, please people, how dangerous is that, all it takes is someone to hit the wire, the dart to bounce back and stab someone, ridiculously dangerous, use magnets instead! And then there is rugby, don’t even get me started on that sport, ban it altogether!!! Seriously people, I’m all for excitement in life, but SAFETY FIRST

    1. HAHAHA…when I startewd reading I thought Oh no, here we go with another one, but your little piece had me in absolute tears of laughter. Nice to see some good clean unabusive sarcasm, for a change.
      Yes safety is paramount in a sport that has 24 vehicles screaming round a track at 320Kph, all trying to get the best they can achieve on the day. But if we think for one minute there will not be some near misses, close calls, and extremely hair raising moments then we may aswell stop now. Compare the sport as is today, to that of 40-50 years ago and there is no comparison, there was hardly a season went by without at least one death. Whilst there have been deaths in other formula of car, F1 itself has not thankfully seen one since Senna, for that we must be gratefull.
      Those that compete in F1 must have a Super License and it is not given out willy nilly.
      The end result, they take the risk, but with as many safety margins in place as is possible, so please leave them to RACE, and those that want to moan constantly, well they can always go back to karting cant they Phillipe…

  78. ive read most of the comments on here,

    Point 1) 90% of overtakes in F1 need both drivers co-operation (see webber on alonso)
    2) Was hamiltons fault no point in arguing that, but with a street circuit if your that close behind attacking and the person infront brakes early (shumis flying lesson), lifts off or as in massa hamiltons case he does not excellorate as early as you you will come together.
    3) Massa is bang out of order with confronting hamilton in the press pen.
    4) You didnt see hamilton even moan that webber tried to force him over a bit to much at the start
    5) Massa is his own worst enemy in defending to hard, anyone with half a brain saw that hamilto was so much faster than him so would have defended but not that hard and concentrated on keeping a good consistant pace (which you cant do very well whilst defending)

    There are to many biased people on this site, it was a simple racing incident that was hamiltons fault for missjudging where massa was going to hit the accelorator, nothing more, Ive been watching F1 since 1988 and these things happen all the time. Senna was the greatest driver due to him always wanting to overtake the car infront and finding places to do it were many cant, he had alot of crashes due to this because he used to catch people off gaurd.

    Just a quick comment on a comment somwere here, Vettel would never have won the monaco gp if he was not allowd to change tyres on the red flag so in my op he never won that on merit

    1. Vettel would never have won the monaco gp if he was not allowd to change tyres on the red flag so in my op he never won that on merit

      You’re complaining about other people being “biased”, yet you choose to believe Vettel definitely wouldn’t have won in Monaco despite neither of the cars behind him coming close to putting a pass on him before the red flag?

      Pot calling the kettle black, I’m afraid.

      1. Hows that biased???? Its not “choose to believe” His tyres were shot, Is it biased if I said in canada Vettel would have won if he didnt run wide? No because it was obvious he would same as his tyres were shot, button would not have needed to pit again.
        Very strange to call me biased, who was i biased towards?
        Seems a bit like trying to discredit my comment by saying im biased?

        1. His tyres were shot

          So? How do you know he was going to lose the lead? When was it going to happen? One more lap? Five? Can you say with certainty it would have happened before the chequered flag?

          No-one can’t answer these questions definitively which is why I say it is a biased view to insist, as you do, that Vettel would not have won in Monaco.

          1. Let the guy have his opinion without criticising him! personally I’m not sure, if it was hamilton or alonso in buttons seat, I think they would of found a way past somehow, button I’m not too sure, but either way, letting them change tyres was pathetic and spoilt the race.

          2. if having an opinyon is biased then every is, if cfanada was red flagged the lap after button took vettel would you have called me biased for saying vettel would never have re overtaken him? no because it was obvious his tyres were going in that race to. Although nothing is ever certain i will always go with the most likely, this does not make me biased this is me going on my 23 years experiance of watching f1.

      2. Keith, It is not good that you choose to ignore all of Wilky’s points to focus on one that didn’t really contribute to do with the gist of his argument.

        1. Thousands of comments are posted here every day. I do what I can to reply to some of them in part, as I’m never going to be able reply to all of them in total.

          In this case, I thought accusing others of “bias” while exhibiting it was a bit rich.

          1. Keith, I hope you take this as constructive criticism; As a founding member you’ve gain success from people joining up and expressing their own opinions – biased or unbiased. The success of F1Fanatic is what it is today owing to the many people that have joined and posted on your forum. Given your position you should encourage all sorts of posting (so long as they fall within the rules) biased or unbiased and let the community respond with each others own opinions. For a founding member to criticize someone’s expression can potentially put them off from posting any further and/or may also discourage others from posting what they truly feel.

            Your position of authority (as you have the ability to also remove posts) should not be discouraging one’s opinions but be of an arbitrary nature. Also you shouldn’t be trying to respond to everything. I’m not saying that you can’t have an opinion but it all depends on how strong your message comes across. And I’m also not saying that all your responses have been putting people off or have not been balanced, it’s just in this case in my opinion you (not sure whether it was intentional) discredited Wilky112’s opinion. And I don’t think a founding member should be behaving that way. It’s just my opinion and feedback – you can choose how you want to read it.

          2. I don’t mind people having opinions, preferences, bias, whatever.

            My point is, as I just said, complaining about “bias” in what other people are writing while exhibiting it yourself is a bit rich.

            Also you shouldn’t be trying to respond to everything.

            I don’t, as I’ve also already said in an earlier reply.

  79. I am a massive fan of f1 and for all you ‘supporters’ who think hamilton is dangerous and has been fairly dealt with since he has been in f1 then listen up. If hamilton drives like he did in monza a few weeks ago he gets slammed for not being exciteing, for not being up for the fight, for not being the driver people around the world love.he is the most exciteing driver to come into f1 since the days of senna.However if he shows his raceing ability, if he goes for the overtakes and makes a slight misjudgement then he gets slammed for that also. People are saying how great vettel is but im sorry how many times had he had 2 overtake this season?? i could probily count with 1 hand!! the fact of the matter is we all want to see exciteing raceing, thats why we are fans of f1, we all want to see the drivers going for it, you carnt excpect them 2 get every pass spot on, in that 1 race alone you have schuey running into the back of sum1 which was alot worse then hamiltons and completely avoidable but its a raceing inccident.. ok so then theres rosberg, again worse then hamiltons but because he didnt puncture a tyre and loose his front wing he doesnt get a penalty, or how about schuey blocking hamilton in monza..no penalty, theres many more i can come up with but the simple fact is your trying to stop a driver trying to push the car to the limit and earning millions of pounds for doing it… i completely agree with beltabry although he was very sarcastic he has hot the nail on the head.the safety if f1 is so advanced to the days of senna and co and there is minimal risk taken.yes there are dangers in any sport but f1 they have minimalised the risk.. few more examples ontop of beltabrys.. perez earlyer this season, webbers where he flipped into the air and crashed into a barrier, kovo’s car been on fire twice this season and same as the renault cars!! none of these were due to ther cars being involved and nobody was injured in these crashes apart from perez wher he had a sprained finger of something.. the fact is hamilton gives us what we need in formula one and without him the sport wouldnt be what it is, so get of his back and stop penaliseing him for stupid things. Massa was was out of line for what he did at the end of the day it was a raceing incident which happens all the time without any penalty being warrented!!

  80. Im a huge Lewis fan and yes he has made some poor decisions this season, the one with JB in canada was the worst but the rest were just racing incidents. Yet Lewis drove and indicedent free race in Monza and everyone moaned he wasn’t his usual agressive self..the boy is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.

    Massa on the other hand needs to talk less and concentrate on his driving, and if you do talk at least get the facts right and stop trying to make the situation worse. Below are massa comments from after the race:

    He could have caused a big accident. He touched my wheel on a straight at 300 kph, and he punctured my tyres, so he destroyed my race.”…err I don’t think so, both cars had slowed right down for the chicane, unless Massa was going to take the chicane at 300kph.

    And as for all the people on here asking for Lewis to be thrown out of F1, get real please. In an age where the drivers are driven by PR managers and afraid to speak their own mind, to drivers that have to be inch perfect for every lap of the race, to the top 4/5 teams that have perfect cars and unrealiability is unheard of, I for one and pleased Lewis is in F1, after all yesterdays race would have been a procession if it wasn’t for Lewis. Drivers today are like robots and at least with Lewis it gives us some belief that at least one of them is human after all.

  81. blimey 298 comments! Keith, what is the highest number of comments you’ve had on a single post?

    1. A lot more than this! Don’t think we’ve cracked a thousand but there’s some pages with seven or eight hundred.

  82. Lucas Alexander
    26th September 2011, 15:16

    Talk about an over reaction.

  83. Say what you like about Hamilton, but he can surely pull a crowd. Just look at the number of posts (>300)on this article. Do you think that as many people would be commenting if this incident with Massa involved some other driver? I don’t think so! GO HAMILTON!!!

  84. Two drivers under heavy pressure, one self-inflicted (Hamilton), the other because he accepted a team role he doesn’t really want (Massa).

    Massa’s reported parting shot to Hamilton says most I think: ‘You’ll win a lot of World Championships like that.’ So at least he suggests Hamilton could win some, if he drives differently. But presumably not himself, given Alonso is sat firmly in number one spot.

    The tug and heavy tapping was over the line and would have led to a confrontation in other circumstances (such as Massa being unable to run off like he did). But the personal remark, calling his father into the altercation, was really a bit nasty. It calls Massa’s state of mind far more into question than Hamilton’s.

  85. who is saying what to whom………. ????

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