Alonso and Hamilton ‘would have done the same as Vettel’ – Horner

2013 Malaysian Grand Prix

Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, Sepang, 2013Christian Horner says Sebastian Vettel’s defiance of team orders during the Malaysian Grand Prix showed he has the competitive instincts of the F1 elite.

“He’s a very, very driven individual,” said Horner in an interview with Sky. “You don’t win the amount of events he’s won, the amount of grands prix he’s won, the amount of success he’s had in his career by being a driver that is submissive, that sits back.”

“If Fernando Alonso or Lewis Hamilton had been in that position they’d have done the same, if Mark Webber had been in that position we’ve seen him do the same. So let’s not kid ourselves that this is something unique to Sebastian, this is something that’s in any competitive, driven driver’s DNA.”

Horner admitted there had been previous occasions where he’d attempted to impose team orders on his drivers without success: “I think any race driver, any seriously competitive race driver, teams orders go against what they compete for.”

“We saw it with Mark in 2011 at Silverstone, we saw it on previous occasions with the team, the final in race in Brazil last year, only two races ago.

“It’s a tricky one because obviously the interest of the driver is different from the interests of the team. Team orders are permitted, they exist in Formula One. The constructors’ championship for the team has equal or more importance than the drivers’ championship. The constructors’ championships is where the funds are distributed.

“So of course there are different objectives going on within a Grand Prix: that of the driver and that of the teams.”

Red Bull ‘takes equality seriously’

However Horner added he believes Vettel genuinely regrets his actions: “Sebastian’s a very honest guy. I think he was shocked after the race I think he was surprised and then the feeling came over him, you could see that, that he felt he had done wrong.”

“I believe his apology was sincere and he repeated that apology in private in the briefing that we had later that evening.”

The Red Bull team principal insisted both his drivers will continue to be treated the same: “[Webber] will have equal opportunity to Sebastian as we’ve done our very best to do for both drivers at every Grand Prix that we compete at.”

“Mark knows the equipment that we make and the lengths we go to ensure parity. We even, from weekend to weekend, switch who going to go first in qualifying, who talks first in the debrief, it’s switched from weekend to weekend to ensure there is completely parity in the way we treat our drivers.

“It’s something we take very seriously within the team and I think Mark knows the support that he has.”

“I think we’re going to give up on that code”

Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull, Sepang, 2013Horner also gave further insight into the events during the final laps of Sunday’s Malaysian Grand Prix, pointing out that Webber had to run his engine on a lower setting because he had used more fuel:

“Mark and Seb were on opposing strategies they were running different tyres at different points in time. After that final stop of course fuel consumption between the two cars had been slightly different, Mark’s had been slightly higher than Sebastian’s so he was in a slightly more fuel saving mode than Sebastian.”

After the race Webber was heard pointing out to Vettel they had been given the instruction “multi 21″ during the race. “Multi 21 means car two ahead of car one,” Horner explained.

“Multi 12 means car one ahead of car two. It’s not complicated. It’s not that difficult to translate but both our drivers in the last three races have failed to understand both of those messages.”

“I think we’re going to give up on that code,” he added. “We need to probably try something else.”

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238 comments on Alonso and Hamilton ‘would have done the same as Vettel’ – Horner

  1. BasCB (@bascb) said on 29th March 2013, 11:19

    Hm, so in the end its not that much different than how the team reacted after Turkey 2010, apart from not heaping blame on Webber this time.

    “Its only natural”, the others would have done the same, we try not to use team orders, they have been ignoring us for 3 races now. So why then, did Vettel have to apologize this time, what for really if its nothing new? And still, the more important question that arises. Why would a top team have a Team principal who is getting used to being ignored

    I am sure the next few races have all in them to be as intense as those following Turkey 2010.

    • “So why then, did Vettel have to apologize this time, what for really if its nothing new?”

      Good question. I wonder, did they tell Vettel to make a public apology? They must have, but as you point out its nothing new which seems to imply he apologised because he wanted to himself.

      • Mike Dee (@mike-dee) said on 29th March 2013, 17:53

        I doubt it. He wouldn’t have been talking to anyone from the team before the podium interviews, and probably nobody either before the press conference. Apparently Webber and Vettel quickly talked to each other before the press conference though.

  2. Fer no.65 (@fer-no65) said on 29th March 2013, 11:20

    So… now he’s justifying what Vettel did? and Mark was on fuel saving mode…

    Oh, dear Christian….

  3. Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 29th March 2013, 11:31

    There is a big difference between being fair and being an aggressive racer , the most spectacular fearless and aggressive racing driver on earth Gilles Villeneuve was fair i mean you can be a true racer with “balls” and fair at the same time, Christian Horner and Vettel’s fans are trying to hide the truth of Vettel’s unfair play by saying Oh dear he is not a “SISSY” Vettel is a racer (which is not true, he has to demonstrate that on track and don’t tell me Monza 2008, Abu Dhabi 2012 ), he is ruthless blablabla……
    Well can anybody reminds me of Vettel making a move like Mark Webber’s overtaking manoeuvre at “Eau Rouge”, i’m not telling Mark is a better driver than Vettel but in this aspect which Christian is trying to make an excuse Mark is far better
    The fact is : in this case Mark was stubbed from behind it is not the case of Vettel ignoring team orders
    It is true that maybe Alonso and Hamilton would have done the same with Christian Horner behind the pit wall but i doubt if it was another team principle “a la Jean Todt or Flavio Biatore or Frank Williams” they would dare ignore his orders, his words of trying to find excuses for Vettel, his absence in the podium ceremony demonstrates all what i said

    • gilles (@gilles) said on 29th March 2013, 13:09

      Nice logic @tifoso1989. Vettel has yet to demonstrate his true racer abillities and dont tell me China 2007, Monza 2008, Suzuka 2009-2012, Monza 2011, Spa 2012, AbuDhabi 2012, Brazil 2012. Those definately doesn’t count.
      And on the serious side, yes, I remember Vettel squeezin through a car-width space between his “never give an inch” teammate and the pitwall at 280 km/h quite recently. And Webber’s move in eau rouge although spectacular was really taking candy from Fernando who was slow out of the pits on cold tyre.

      • Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 29th March 2013, 14:44

        I remember Vettel squeezin through a car-width space between his “never give an inch” teammate and the pitwall at 280 km/h quite recently

        I have seen Barrichello doing the same thing in Hungary 2010

        you clearly missed the point i didn’t say Vettel is not a winner or he’s not fast i said that this excuse of being a “racer” should not be implied in this case because his teammate is clearly far better in this aspect
        BTW no one can take candy at “EAU ROUGE”

        • uan (@uan) said on 30th March 2013, 18:14

          @tifoso1989

          “I have seen Barrichello doing the same thing in Hungary 2010″

          There’s an interesting double standard – not a peep from anyone about Webbers move which is only about a bee’s **** width different from Schumacher on Barrichello. Yet Schumacher was crucified in the press and give a 10 place grid penalty for the next race (iirc). Webber doing essentially the same thing? Nada.

      • Palle (@palle) said on 29th March 2013, 15:22

        +1 of course a 3 times champion has yet to prove his racer abilities.
        Personally I recognized his talent the first time he stood in for Kubica at Williams BMW F1.

    • David-A (@david-a) said on 29th March 2013, 15:14

      @tifoso1989

      Well can anybody reminds me of Vettel making a move like Mark Webber’s overtaking manoeuvre at “Eau Rouge”, i’m not telling Mark is a better driver than Vettel but in this aspect which Christian is trying to make an excuse Mark is far better

      How about the next race, at Curva Grande? Vettel passed Alonso, Webber crashed into Massa (then crashed at Parabolica).

      At Korea 2011, Vettel passed Hamilton and won. Webber couldn’t get past for the entire race and finished 3rd. Better, at Spa 2012, Senna led Webber, who led Vettel. Webber couldn’t pass Senna with DRS. What happened next? Vettel lines up Webber out of a DRS zone, then passes Senna out of a DRS zone. Webber needed to be pitted to get past Bruno Senna. The actions of a “far better” racer/overtaker? I don’t think so.

      • Drezone said on 31st March 2013, 12:35

        Yeah I can think of a better move

        Webber getting taken by Alonso down the main straight of his home crowd in Barcelona after a restart and webber retaking it back

        Korea 2011 hmmmmm

        Webber on harder tyre managing to keep pace with vettel and Hamilton on softs and up their **** and all he had to do was wait till they pitted earlier and get free space and jump them but RBR brought webber in earlier so vettels 200 point lead would not be tarnished

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 31st March 2013, 22:43

          Webber getting taken by Alonso down the main straight of his home crowd in Barcelona after a restart and webber retaking it back

          Which race was that? From your description, it hardly sounds as good as Curva Grande.

          Webber on harder tyre managing to keep pace with vettel and Hamilton on softs and up their **** and all he had to do was wait till they pitted earlier and get free space and jump them but RBR brought webber in earlier so vettels 200 point lead would not be tarnished

          He wasn’t keeping pace with Vettel, when Vettel was out front pulling away from Hamilton, who in turn was ahead of Webber. Webber should have pitted on a different lap to Hamilton if he wanted to pass through the pits. That was Webber’s fault- the car doesn’t autopilot into the pitlane.

          • Drezone said on 1st April 2013, 1:06

            Spain 2009

            You have to watch it as both drivers were almost on the grass but they gave each other room and respect and both made good passes on each other within 200 metres

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 31st March 2013, 22:44

          Webber getting taken by Alonso down the main straight of his home crowd in Barcelona after a restart and webber retaking it back

          Which race was that? From your description, it hardly sounds as spectacular as Curva Grande.

          Webber on harder tyre managing to keep pace with vettel and Hamilton on softs and up their **** and all he had to do was wait till they pitted earlier and get free space and jump them but RBR brought webber in earlier so vettels 200 point lead would not be tarnished

          He wasn’t keeping pace with Vettel, when Vettel was out front pulling away from Hamilton, who in turn was ahead of Webber. Webber should have pitted on a different lap to Hamilton if he wanted to pass through the pits. That was Webber’s fault- the car doesn’t autopilot into the pitlane.

    • Guilherme (@guilherme) said on 29th March 2013, 15:47

      @tifoso1989

      Well can anybody reminds me of Vettel making a move like Mark Webber’s overtaking manoeuvre at “Eau Rouge”

      On that very same day, Vettel overtook Rosberg on the outside of F1′s fastest corner – Blanchimont.

    • @tifoso1989

      don’t tell me Monza 2008, Abu Dhabi 2012

      I’ll remember that any time you mention Valencia 2012 or Malaysia 2012.

      • Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 29th March 2013, 19:20

        I’ll remember that any time you mention Valencia 2012 or Malaysia 2012.

        Doesn’t even comes close , try something else

        • @tifoso1989 – they are very similar actually, the parallels are profound: in Italy 2008 and Malaysia 2012, both Vettel and Alonso won in midfield cars in wet conditions. Valencia 2012 in fact was probably closer to Belgium 2012, where they both came from low grid potions to the podium after key players were eliminated.

          So they do in fact; if you chose to ignore that then that is your problem.

          • Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 29th March 2013, 20:14

            The fact is that Torro Rosso was clearly a better car than the F2012 which was hard to keep on a straight line, a Red Bull chassis + a Ferrari engine , Sebastian Bourdais which is i struggle to call him an F1 driver qualified 4th at that race Still those are facts but still a brilliant performance by Vettel
            In Malaysia 2012 Ferrari lost telemetry in the middle of the race so Alonso has to adjust Kers,Fuel,Engine ….set ups without help from the pit and kept his nerve when he was under attack from a that Sauber which was 1s faster per lap

          • @tifoso1989 – I think it’s far from fact that the Ferrari was clearly a worse car than the Toro Rosso in the wet, but nonetheless great performances from both drivers. That is what I think is lacking in certain camps: an acceptance that Alonso isn’t untouchable, and that Vettel is a bloody good driver and indeed it isn’t all Newey.

  4. greg253d (@greg253dgmail-com) said on 29th March 2013, 11:31

    Completely lame. Now the excuses are coming out to why his leadership is ignored by the drivers.

  5. Vone (@vone) said on 29th March 2013, 11:52

    Well said Christian.

    Mark would have done the same, and has ignored team orders previously. This condemning of Vettel is ridiculous given that his team mate is guilty of the same offence many times over and has hardly got any condemnation, but rather praise for his actions.

    Many people keep saying “poor Mark! robbed of a win.” Given his history of ignoring team orders (especially in Brazil 2012), Webber should have been the last person who expected Vettel to follow team orders.

    Vettel just returned the favor. If anyone deserved this it was Webber. After all he’s the person most vocal against team orders. Vettel might come across as ruthless but Webber comes across as a real hypocrite in all of this.

    • Metal Mr. L (@metalluigi) said on 29th March 2013, 12:39

      Remind me of Brazil 2012 where he ignored orders? The start is often a common hot-headed defence for the average Vettel fan, but let’s not forget the start is probably the most tense moment in the whole race for a racing driver where everyone is coming at you, and you have a lot to cope with in the car, and yet because Mark slightly moved in the direction of Vettel this is an example of Webber being two-faced?
      Or perhaps you’re referring to the moment when he, Vettel and Kobayashi went side by side into T1 and Webber deliberately ran off the track to avoid a collision?
      Or possibly when Vettel had caught Mark into T8 and Ciaron Pilbeam came on the radio telling him to move over, which he did?
      Yes, very clear that Webber disobeyed a direct order.

      • HoHum (@hohum) said on 29th March 2013, 13:21

        And all the Vettel fans are conveniently forgetting 2010 when Vettel shoved and brake-checked Webber of the course before the 1st. cnr. nearly every race.

        • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 29th March 2013, 13:35

          @hohum Well I for one can’t remember Vettel doing anything wrong along those lines in 2010 so perhaps you could remind us?

          • HoHum (@hohum) said on 29th March 2013, 14:03

            @keithcollantine, I don’t remember the details of which race was which, and I don’t say it was “wrong” just harder than necessary, you might recall the incident I referred to as “brake checking” Webber as the one where Hamilton got his nose alongside Vettel and they nearly locked wheels.

          • Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine) said on 29th March 2013, 15:20

            @hohum First you said it happened “nearly every race”, now it’s just a single incident you can’t remember the details of, so I’m not worried I don’t have instant recollection of it myself.

          • HoHum (@hohum) said on 29th March 2013, 18:58

            @keithcollantine, no I said 1 particular case of brake checking as well as several/many times Webber was forced of the track, it happened in nearly every race where Vettel had pole and Webber was 2nd. Usual scenario at the first turn Vettel would brake early bringing Webber alongside and bunching up the pack behind then he would take the full width of the track through the corner forcing Webber onto the runoff, if you have video of the starts easily available I think you will have no trouble seeing it.

          • @hohum – point being though? It’s a great tactic for sprinting away from the pack!

          • Drezone said on 31st March 2013, 12:38

            Turkey 2010

            Button at spa 2010

  6. Traverse (@) said on 29th March 2013, 12:06

    So, let me get this straight. If one driver chooses not to conserve fuel during the race (the consequence being that he’ll having to save fuel later on), But his teammate manages to keep a race winning pace whilst conserving fuel. The latter should be penalised for his superior driving sense…Okaaaaay

    Horner: “Mark’s had been slightly higher than Sebastian’s so he was in a slightly more fuel saving mode than Sebastian.”

    So the only real difference between Vettel and Rosberg, is Vet had the guts to take ownership of his destiny. You don’t become a 3-time WDC by helping your “teammate” win races.

    • Guilherme (@guilherme) said on 29th March 2013, 15:51

      @hellotraverse +1. If Webber used more fuel up to the last stop, then he should have opened a gap sufficient to prevent any attacks from Vettel, but he couldn’t do it.

      • Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 29th March 2013, 19:34

        then he should have opened a gap sufficient to prevent any attacks from Vettel

        He was 4s ahead before the last pit stop,
        http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/25/red-bull-mercedes-resorting-team-orders/

        • F1fanNL (@) said on 29th March 2013, 23:09

          @tifoso1989

          So? Vettel was catching Webber throughout the entire race. The only thing that kept Webber in front was the team allowing him to pit first up until the last pitstop.

          And if Red Bull had done a better job calculating where Vettel would end up after his first pitstop Webber wouldn’t have been in the lead to begin with.

          • Tifoso1989 (@tifoso1989) said on 30th March 2013, 10:57

            And if Red Bull had done a better job calculating where Vettel would end up after his first pitstop Webber wouldn’t have been in the lead to begin with.

            I don’t know what’s wrong with you , the call of the first pit stop was made by Vettel himself just like Alonso’s first pit stop call in Melbourne , in both cases their teams wasn’t involved at all

  7. AdrianMorse (@adrianmorse) said on 29th March 2013, 12:13

    I think it’s very strange that Horner says not only Hamilton and Alonso would do the same, but Mark Webber as well. That’s going to be just the message Mark needs when he returns to the RBR garage for the Chinese Grand Prix. “Sorry about the stolen victory, Mark, but we don’t really sympathize with you, as you would have done the same thing”. Horner should just have said “Sebastian was sorry and he has apologized”, and leave it at that, rather than excusing his behaviour (only proving Webber right that Vettel would be protected) and implicating other drivers for no good reason.

    And since this debate will drag on for the foreseeable future, let me put in my view on the difference between last weekend and Silverstone 2011. The “Multi 21″ code was agreed before the race, and so both drivers had agreed to it. When Vettel attacked Webber, he broke that agreement, and betrayed his team mate. When Webber was told to “maintain the gap” (I believe it was), Mark ignored his team principal – for one or two laps until he relented – but he did not betray Vettel.

    • MNM101 (@mnm101) said on 29th March 2013, 12:42

      @adrianmorse i have to diagree with you, I think this is exactly what Mark needs to hear, Because he is being very hypocritical, as your example of Silverstone shows: Mark by his owns admission said he ignored team orders, tried to overtake Sebastian and failed. his failure doesn’t show obedience to team orders (or lack thereof betrayal), it show’s he disobeyed and failed to capitalize on it, unlike Seb in Malaysia, and i didn’t hear Seb complain the least bit after Silverstone, nor Brazil 2012 for that matter, where the stakes were much higher.
      And as for Multi 21, Pre Race agreements and Mid Race orders are equal in power, breaking one is as serious as breaking the other, actually Pre-Race agreements are less powerful, because events during the race directly affect these decisions.
      and if any one is going to bring up Seb “sucker punching” Mark and gaining on him because the latter slowed down, I suggest looking at lap times for evidence.
      Up until the pit stops Mark and Seb were doing the same lap laptimes, then on lap 42 Seb pitted with a gap of 2.8-3 secs to Mark, He pitted for mediums and got out setting purple sectors, meanwhile Mark did another lap, obviously slower due to tyre deg.
      after Mark pitted he got out and the gap to Seb was gone.
      This is called the Undercut, you have all seen it many times before, and i don’t see any evidence of engine changes, at least no one sided ones

      • AdrianMorse (@adrianmorse) said on 29th March 2013, 13:49

        @mnm101, the thing about a pre-race arrangement is that both drivers agreed to it, but then during the race Vettel broke that agreement, hence the betrayal.

        And I know what the undercut is, thank you very much, and perhaps Christian Horner should have explained why the leading driver on track did not get pit stop priority, as it customary, instead giving the guy behind a chance to attack.

        • MNM101 (@mnm101) said on 29th March 2013, 13:58

          @adrianmorse I wasn’t implying you didn’t know what an undercut is, sorry if u took offense to that.
          The lead driver always gets pits priority, so I’m guessing Mark was offered the chance to pit and chose otherwise..
          As for the betrayal, i have nothing to add on what i already said

        • celeste (@celeste) said on 29th March 2013, 17:14

          @adrianmorse And how do you know that this was a “pre race” agreement. If there was a pre race agreement there woulnd´t be any need of the code?

          Unless you really have acces to Red Bull meetings, in wich case tell us more about that secret world please?

          • AdrianMorse (@adrianmorse) said on 29th March 2013, 17:56

            @celeste, because they used the code Multi 21. The drivers must have been briefed on its meaning, and thereby at least implicitly agreeing to follow up on those orders. Also Mark Webber talks about it here in the post-race interviews: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW_mdavfHTA

            So I’m not trying to conjure up any scenarios here, and I find it surprising that people defend Vettel so vigorously, given that he apologized on TV, in the written press conference, and in front of the entire workforce of Red Bull.

          • F1fanNL (@) said on 29th March 2013, 23:11

            @adrianmorse

            Yeah, Vettel really shouldn’t have apologized. He did what he should have done.
            As for pre race agreements. If Webber doesn’t respect them, who is he to expect Vettel to do so?

          • celeste (@celeste) said on 30th March 2013, 0:47

            @adrianmorse as you can see in the interview is a normal code that they use all the time (Horner says he has used in the las 3 races), so there was no need to pre race agreement for the drivers to know the code.

          • AdrianMorse (@adrianmorse) said on 30th March 2013, 6:12

            @celeste, does it matter when they agreed on the code? It could have been before this race, it could have been during winter testing, but at some point prior to this race the drivers discussed the Multi code.

          • celeste (@celeste) said on 30th March 2013, 8:20

            @celeste
            First at Silverstone, it wasn´t that Mark suddenly decided to follow team orders, he couldn´t pass, he said so himself:

            I chose to race as hard and as fair as I thought was possible, trying my best to beat Seb. I got pretty close a couple of times but couldn’t quite pull it off.

            And yes it does matter when they agree on the code, your argument since is that it was a pre race arregement Vettel shoud have stick to it, but since is a standard code for instruction it means that Webber had also disregard it knowing before the race what it means, and being in the same situation as Vettel; so why ask for Vettel´s head?

            And why Webber act like the biggest man, when he himself has done the exact same thing?

          • celeste (@celeste) said on 30th March 2013, 8:32

            Sorry the previous answer was mean to be for @adrianmorse

    • When Webber was told to “maintain the gap” (I believe it was), Mark ignored his team principal – for one or two laps until he relented

      He did not “relent”. At all.

      When Vettel attacked Webber, he broke that agreement, and betrayed his team mate.

      I don’t find your attempts at persuading yourself terribly convincing.

      • AdrianMorse (@adrianmorse) said on 29th March 2013, 18:07

        @jonsan

        I don’t exactly recall the finish of the 2011 British Grand Prix, so you may be right about that.

        I don’t find your attempts at persuading yourself terribly convincing.

        What sort of argument is this though? Perhaps you could up with something more constructive like pointing out any flaws in my reasoning.

  8. wigster (@wigster) said on 29th March 2013, 12:17

    It sounds like Christian Horner is struggling to control his drivers. If he knows his team orders will be ignored during a race, then why bother with them? To cover his own back perhaps he’s saying “If Seb and Mark crash its not my fault, I told them not to fight”, or does he genuinely want to them to do as he says but lacks the authority to make it happen, unlike Ross Brawn for example, who from the team radio I heard during the race sounded a lot more certain and authoritative than Christian Horner.

  9. Rigi (@rigi) said on 29th March 2013, 12:26

    vettel has more power than his whole team..

  10. MB (@muralibhats) said on 29th March 2013, 12:49

    Then why was the team order given, if you knew Vettel wold try passing Webber?

  11. andae23 (@andae23) said on 29th March 2013, 13:24

    I was wondering what Webber meant with “Vettel will get protection from Red Bull as always”. I get it now.

    Basically Horner avoided the main question: was Vettel wrong to ignore the team order? He doesn’t say it’s right (would be strange if he did), but then he doesn’t say it’s wrong either. He elaborates on how Alonso, Hamilton and Webber would react in a similar scenario, he says it’s actually a good characteristic. But if it’s good or wrong what Vettel did, he only says that drivers and constructors have different interests, without actually giving his opinion.

    If I were Horner, I would have said that the team gives their drivers team orders for a reason, and that in a well oiled team a driver respects the team principal’s orders. Vettel didn’t do that, so he was wrong. Vettel then acknowledged his mistake, understands why he has to obey team orders and apologized during the debrief, and now he and Red Bull will move on. That would make a lot more sense, especially as this sort of thing has happened 4 times in 4 years now. Vettel is not a newbie: he knows what team orders are, he knows what it means to ignore them – so what insight has Vettel gained between the overtake on Webber and the podium ceremony that suddenly makes him see ignoring team orders is wrong? What is the value of his apology? And anyway, when Alonso, Hamilton and Webber would do the same in a similar situation, does that then imply it isn’t wrong? Summarized: Horner should step up to the plate and admit that what Vettel did was wrong instead of praising him for his ‘fighting spirit’ (if you can call it that).

    I think it is natural for Webber to question Horner’s policy of equality: Horner basically defended Vettel’s choice to ignore team orders instead of admitting this is not what the team wants to see. The step to thinking Vettel is a little bit more equal than Webber in the Red Bull team is not far-fetched at all.

    • I was wondering what Webber meant with “Vettel will get protection from Red Bull as always”. I get it now.

      I don’t, so maybe you can explain it to me. What punishment has Mark Webber ever received for his multiple violations of team orders over the years?

      Given that the answer is “None whatsoever”, what exactly is the basis for the claim that Vettel is “protected”? I’d really like to know.

      • andae23 (@andae23) said on 29th March 2013, 15:50

        @jonsan I understand why Webber may think that “Vettel will get protection from Red Bull as always” – it wasn’t my intention to write: I understand that Vettel always gets protection from Red Bull. Initially I didn’t understand it because, like you, I don’t see any events in the past that would support that claim. But now Horner practically defends Vettel’s decisions from Sunday, which is exactly what Webber said would happen. Therefore one may conclude that there are some things happening within the Red Bull team (which we of course don’t know about) that would lead to Webber saying such a thing.

      • Drezone said on 31st March 2013, 12:48

        Turkey 2010 was all the protection vettel has ever needed since

        Just ask helmut marko

        As for webber disobeying team orders which appears to be only silverstone 2011 and brazil 2012 from what people are bringing up I’m thinking they have not taken into consideration the million times he has obeyed orders

        Not to mention the slight help RBR has made for him with kers issues and pitstop advantages and front wings and starting procedures off the grid

        Nah maybe I’m looking to much into it

        • David-A (@david-a) said on 31st March 2013, 23:21

          As for webber disobeying team orders which appears to be only silverstone 2011 and brazil 2012 from what people are bringing up I’m thinking they have not taken into consideration the million times he has obeyed orders

          Vettel obeyed team orders in the past as well- Turkey 2009 and Brazil 2011 for instance. Webber, a) hasn’t been given team orders that many times aside from GBR 2011 (only the end of last year when he wasn’t fighting for the championship, actually), and b) doesn’t have a moral high ground here due to his own disobedience and previous stance on team orders, I’m afraid.

  12. TMF (@tmf42) said on 29th March 2013, 13:39

    my take away:
    “Multi 12 means car one ahead of car two. It’s not complicated. It’s not that difficult to translate but both our drivers in the last three races have failed to understand both of those messages.”
    “I think we’re going to give up on that code,” he added. “We need to probably try something else.”

    So we will see some more racing between Mark and Seb or RBR will destroy the race with strategy calls of the one who should come in behind the other.

  13. HiPn0tIc (@hipn0tic) said on 29th March 2013, 13:54

    After said and done, i just realize that Horner is the only guy losing from this situation, because shows weakness, and lack of leading skills for a guy in his position, if not let’s see:

    - RBR has won the same points 1-2 or 2-1, yes the Vettel-Webber relationship isn’t the best but none of them will not try to get the 1st place
    - Vettel has shown that winning is everything for him, wich team doesn’t want thar? Please…Yes some of the public opinion is against him, but also was agains Prost, Senna, Schumacher and so and so…
    - Webber, yes he lost the 1st place but gained the public opinion and a free pass for attacking whenever he feels like Vettel without pointing him fingers. He has nothing to lose

    - Horner, i’m sorry but looks like a puppet, he’s in a critical position, can not defende Vettel but can’t attack him, he’s the person on the spot….

  14. AndrewT (@andrewt) said on 29th March 2013, 14:05

    what happened on the track is one thing. trying to (mis)communicate it to the public is another thing, and this side is becoming disgusting, at least for me. who exactly are they trying to fool?

    • Joe Papp (@joepa) said on 29th March 2013, 17:10

      Exactly, @andrewt. Although it’s also getting really nauseating and annoying to listen to the endless attempts to defend Vettel’s behavior by citing other examples of poor sportsmanship. Pffft! If Vettel had done nothing wrong, then he wouldn’t have (been forced to?) apologize(d)!? How can some people defend behavior that Vettel himself has said was wrong/dishonest/treacherous/etc? Cognitive dissonance…

  15. Webber would have done the same thing. In fact, he has done the same thing.

    Separate topic, but is Alonso going to escape without penalty for not pitting but continuing to race with his front wing dragging on the ground? That was reckless and dangerous on his part.

    • andae23 (@andae23) said on 29th March 2013, 14:54

      A drive is allowed to continue with damage. Only when the stewards have notified the team and the driver that the damage is too severe to continue (black and orange flag), he is forced to pit.

    • BasCB (@bascb) said on 30th March 2013, 16:22

      @jonsan – yes, that is a completely different topic, best discussed in a completely different comments section.

      Let me add, that come the end of the season, I am sure Alonso will look back on this race and feel he was punished a lot by not bringing the car home in the points already.

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