I think it’s fairly safe to say that Renault’s race was absolutely humiliating. They couldn’t even pass Kovalainen on the track; they had to wait for him to pit so that Senna and Petrov could get enough clear air to overlap the Finn – and then they had to do it all over again as soon as they pitted.
Internally, Renault is a mess. Especially when the subject is money. I’m hearing that the sponsorship promised by Group Lotus has been held up, and will not actually be paid until next season. That can’t have helped.
The Renault’s didn’t get much airplay on the FOM coverage but every now and then you could see one of them coming through the exit of a corner and the back end was fish tailing, and that was just a couple of laps after they had pitted. The Renault’s really struggled in Singapore. Hopefully a faster more flowing Suzuka will bring some better results.
Great drives from Paul and Seb in particular. It was another frustrating weekend being a Ferrari fan. Ferrari actually seemed to have pace early in the weekend but it soon turned out we didn’t, struggled with tyres again and then Lewis decided to make life just that little bit harder for Felipe and this was supposed to be one our their better tracks too :(
I liked Lewis’ recovery, and Massa could have done some places better had he startedhis recovery a little ealier in the central part of the race. To call Felipe unlucky would be too little :(
I’m not sure if anyone can really say that Jenson doesn’t have raw pace now. Not after the last four races. Forget 2009. In my view he’s been the best of the rest this year.
Stunning stuff from Vettel again. This time last year I was still labelling him a time trial driver (in a way I would still love to see him tangled with the front runners more) and on top of being the best driver of 2011 he’s got to be the most improved driver since 2010.
I’m not sure if anyone can really say that Jenson doesn’t have raw pace now. Not after the last four races. Forget 2009.
I think Button’s performances this year have proven that his 2009 title was down to more than just the car. Sure, he was miles out in front, but Barrichello was comparatively slower in a superior machine – just as Mark Webber is now. I see Button’s 2009 season and Vettel’s 2011 as having a common theme: a driver perfectly attuned to his car.
The Schumacher-Perez collision is being investigated. But as the (obvious) culprit crashed out of the race, it’s not surprising nothing was handed down before the chequered flag.
Can anyone explain why the Lewis/Massa collision was investigated and Schmui/Perez collision was not?
All on-track incidents are investigated. However, as Keith points out, the burden of responsibility in the Schumacher-Perez clash fell on Michael Schumacher’s shoulder. And Perez was able to continue unmolested. The Hamilton-Massa incident, on the other hand, saw two drivers collide and both drivers suffer as a result; Hamilton lost his front wing and Massa had a puncture.
Furthermore, the responsiblity tends to rest with the attacking driver. Schumacher attacked Perez, and crashed out without costing Perez too much in the way of time. However, when Hamilton and Massa touched, Hamilton was attacking and Massa suffered because of the puncture. They might have looked similar on the track, but they were two very different incidents with two very different outcomes.
From the looks of things, Schumacher’s front wing connected with Perez’s rear tyre right in the middle of the front wing, where the two uprights connect the wing to the nose. That’s much smoother and has a much smaller surface area than the rest of the wing, so I suspect it did very little actual damage. Plus, Schumacher’s car was thrown upwards, away from the Sauber before it could do any more damage.
What about Perez’s triple-move on Rosberg on the main straight? That was ridiculous, clearly outside the supposed letter of the rules, and the stewards just waved it off.
I’m going to confess that I’m starting to get annoyed at Lewis. He starting to show little respect for other drivers, is making quite frankly daft mistakes and seems constantly sulky. I’ve never been a fan on Lewis I’ll admit but back in 07 and 08 he was still wonderful to watch because he was enjoying it and he’d never quit. This year on a couple of occasions when something bad has happened he’s asked if there’s any point carrying on so it feels like he’s a different person who is just focussed on the results and not enjoying the racing.
After China I had a really ominous feeling. He’d had a mad start to the Sunday morning but came back and won in such great style. As a fan of a rival it scared me but gave me thrills at the same time. It was like he was all out for this season, nothing was going to stop him and he was enjoying the F1 scene. I just couldn’t imagine that happening now though.
Lewis is great, I’ve no doubt he’ll bounce back next year and I don’t buy that JB has blown him away this year because I think Hamilton’s messy season has been of his own doing mostly. However, if he doesn’t change his attitude or calm down a bit he’s going to struggle and I won’t even enjoy watching his comeback.
He starting to show little respect for other drivers
I’m going to start claiming royalties every time someone uses that sentence from now on. I’ll put the money to good use – I think I’ll buy a front wing from McLaren, so that Lewis has one less to abuse. Maybe then he’ll start showing some common sense.
Don’t get me wrong – I want Hamilton to enjoy the levels of success he’s had in the past. But I think he’s just trapped in a self-destructive cycle. He was, after all, the first man to prove that Vettel could be beaten. Better still, he did it early in the season before Vettel started running away with it. But from then on, Hamilton kept doing everything right and still came up second-best. That’s got to gnaw at him on some level, even if he denies it. I think he’s really over-compensated, and it’s defiantely showing itself in his racing. He’s falling further and further behind when he was expected – and expecting – to be leading the charge. Instead, he was the first of the five title contenders to fall by the wayside. I’m sure his fans will come back with some explanaton about how Lewis is driving better than ever, but the way I see it, he just can’t see beyond his front wing right now. And all the while, Button is consolidating his position as team leader within McLaren. I’d say that right now, the car is playing more to Button’s strengths than to Hamilton’s, and if things keep going the way they are currently, 2012 is going to be a very interesting year in the McLaren pit garage. Then, of course, there was this article in The Daily Fail about how Hamilton “will not wait forever” for McLaren to give him a competitive car – but based on the past few races, Jenson Button is the fast horse than Woking should be betting on.
Hamilton saying he “will not wait forever” for Mclaren to give him a competitive car shows how frustrated he must be at the moment, IMO.
He’s been going faster than the car, basically, over the last few races. Chances of making mistakes and getting involved in clashes are the price to pay in those situations. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn’t.
I bet he’s been trying everything to go faster and faster, and it’s not been working for him as of lately.
That’s why Jenson’s outscoring him and outpacing him at the moment. He’s not risking as much, and he’s having a lot more clean races (probably the cleanest of them all across the grid, with the exception of SV).
Lewis has his mind fixed that he is driving a slow car, which explains the 4 podiums and rest 4th or below finishes. Compare this to Button who has equal number of race wins to Lewis and twice the number of podiums. When Hamilton entered the F1 scene he was the prodigy who gave Alonso a run for his money. Five years into it somehow he has just stagnated, while others seem to have graduated. Lewis reminds me of the teens who get distracted by the new gizmos and start failing in studies but wouldn’t accept reality.
I actually did mean to mention you there and that I agreed earlier on but I deleted my comment by accident, had to type it out again and just forgot so I am really sorry for that PM!
Just to summarise your Statement,I think Jenson has learnt from Lewis in terms of Driving but has retained his Patience,Intelligence(Not that Lewis is stupid) & Wise factor.
Same goes with Lewis especially,He’s got a lot to take in from this season,Including the fact sometimes you gotta be patient & pick out when & where you’re gonna overtake.You’re right,Lewis’ Mindset needs to be seriously adjusted.
To be honest, I think Hamilton is turning the tides. He used Monza as a bit of a base to get into a finish again, sure being overcautious and not really exiting at all. But here he was on a good run and more or less kept his cool. Yes, hitting Massa was not good, but after that he did some nice passes, partly DRS assisted, some of it without and he kept the pace up. To me that looks like he is on the road back up to being successfull as well as exiting to watch.
Completely agree. As a Brit I am proud that we have a driver of such pace, charisma and calibre but on too many occasions this year I have honestly thought his driving and respect for other drivers has been pretty dire.
It’s alright him and his fans saying the stewards always penalise him but that fact is, nearlly every single time that is his own fault and whether his likes it or not, no one else gets into anywhere near as much bother.
Was it though for Massa? He finished 4 places behind Hamilton, despite being in front of him after the drive-through. Sure, the Ferrari was slower than the McLaren, but by that amount?
Vettel kind of entered another realm of stature today. This is what Newey meant by winning in style. That was just a beat-down. Whitmarsh telling Button he could catch Vettel up in the traffic was touching. Vettel could put a second on Button at any moment, as was clear throughout the race.
Chaz (@chaz)
25th September 2011, 15:07
Great fight back Lewis. Good result for Paul…
Duckduckgo
25th September 2011, 15:42
Force India shined today. And so did Di Resta.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
25th September 2011, 15:12
I think it’s fairly safe to say that Renault’s race was absolutely humiliating. They couldn’t even pass Kovalainen on the track; they had to wait for him to pit so that Senna and Petrov could get enough clear air to overlap the Finn – and then they had to do it all over again as soon as they pitted.
electrolite (@electrolite)
25th September 2011, 15:18
To think they had back to back podiums at the start of the year. Both of which went pretty untroubled…
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
25th September 2011, 15:32
Internally, Renault is a mess. Especially when the subject is money. I’m hearing that the sponsorship promised by Group Lotus has been held up, and will not actually be paid until next season. That can’t have helped.
Mike (@mike)
25th September 2011, 16:29
If that is true it compromises them for next year as well.
Group Lotus doesn’t actually have that much to play with anyway, is it possible there might be an issue?
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
25th September 2011, 15:34
Indeed. Now Force India is 22 points behind them. It’s going to be close
AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
25th September 2011, 16:19
It was pretty dire. Their worst weekend all season, by quite a considerable margin. That’s the worrying thing.
BasCB (@bascb)
25th September 2011, 19:15
Did any of you get a clue this happened (Senna getting told he was battling Perez and attacking him causing a collission after the SC)?
Realy a race to forget for Renault. Maybe a late punishment for 2008?
Kelly (@kelly)
26th September 2011, 2:48
The Renault’s didn’t get much airplay on the FOM coverage but every now and then you could see one of them coming through the exit of a corner and the back end was fish tailing, and that was just a couple of laps after they had pitted. The Renault’s really struggled in Singapore. Hopefully a faster more flowing Suzuka will bring some better results.
Eggry (@eggry)
25th September 2011, 15:13
Great chase from Hamilton. It’s shame that Massa’s race was devastated. Still I’m happy that Seb’s title delayed 2 weeks. Really.
electrolite (@electrolite)
25th September 2011, 15:17
Yep, considering Massa’a charge at the end a battle with Hamilton, at the very least, would have been on the cards.
Ferrari should be pleased with 4th and 7th to be honest considering how bad their tyre duration was today.
electrolite (@electrolite)
25th September 2011, 15:20
9th, sorry.
Steph (@)
25th September 2011, 15:13
Great drives from Paul and Seb in particular. It was another frustrating weekend being a Ferrari fan. Ferrari actually seemed to have pace early in the weekend but it soon turned out we didn’t, struggled with tyres again and then Lewis decided to make life just that little bit harder for Felipe and this was supposed to be one our their better tracks too :(
Eggry (@eggry)
25th September 2011, 15:17
I fear next year might be another repeat…
Fixy (@)
1st October 2011, 10:59
I liked Lewis’ recovery, and Massa could have done some places better had he startedhis recovery a little ealier in the central part of the race.
To call Felipe unlucky would be too little :(
electrolite (@electrolite)
25th September 2011, 15:14
I’m not sure if anyone can really say that Jenson doesn’t have raw pace now. Not after the last four races. Forget 2009. In my view he’s been the best of the rest this year.
Stunning stuff from Vettel again. This time last year I was still labelling him a time trial driver (in a way I would still love to see him tangled with the front runners more) and on top of being the best driver of 2011 he’s got to be the most improved driver since 2010.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
25th September 2011, 15:26
I think Button’s performances this year have proven that his 2009 title was down to more than just the car. Sure, he was miles out in front, but Barrichello was comparatively slower in a superior machine – just as Mark Webber is now. I see Button’s 2009 season and Vettel’s 2011 as having a common theme: a driver perfectly attuned to his car.
marc
25th September 2011, 15:20
New Fan of F1– Can anyone explain why the Lewis/Massa collision was investigated and Schmui/Perez collision was not? Thanks
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
25th September 2011, 15:22
The Schumacher-Perez collision is being investigated. But as the (obvious) culprit crashed out of the race, it’s not surprising nothing was handed down before the chequered flag.
BasCB (@bascb)
25th September 2011, 19:18
Schumacher got a reprimand for it.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
25th September 2011, 15:30
All on-track incidents are investigated. However, as Keith points out, the burden of responsibility in the Schumacher-Perez clash fell on Michael Schumacher’s shoulder. And Perez was able to continue unmolested. The Hamilton-Massa incident, on the other hand, saw two drivers collide and both drivers suffer as a result; Hamilton lost his front wing and Massa had a puncture.
Furthermore, the responsiblity tends to rest with the attacking driver. Schumacher attacked Perez, and crashed out without costing Perez too much in the way of time. However, when Hamilton and Massa touched, Hamilton was attacking and Massa suffered because of the puncture. They might have looked similar on the track, but they were two very different incidents with two very different outcomes.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
25th September 2011, 15:34
Which I was surprised by, that was quite a hit.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
25th September 2011, 15:43
From the looks of things, Schumacher’s front wing connected with Perez’s rear tyre right in the middle of the front wing, where the two uprights connect the wing to the nose. That’s much smoother and has a much smaller surface area than the rest of the wing, so I suspect it did very little actual damage. Plus, Schumacher’s car was thrown upwards, away from the Sauber before it could do any more damage.
Perez was very lucky.
DaveW (@dmw)
25th September 2011, 18:48
What about Perez’s triple-move on Rosberg on the main straight? That was ridiculous, clearly outside the supposed letter of the rules, and the stewards just waved it off.
BasCB (@bascb)
25th September 2011, 19:19
It was rather Rosberg shoving off Perez in that move. The stewards investigated and decided not to act on it.
Steph (@)
25th September 2011, 15:42
I’m going to confess that I’m starting to get annoyed at Lewis. He starting to show little respect for other drivers, is making quite frankly daft mistakes and seems constantly sulky. I’ve never been a fan on Lewis I’ll admit but back in 07 and 08 he was still wonderful to watch because he was enjoying it and he’d never quit. This year on a couple of occasions when something bad has happened he’s asked if there’s any point carrying on so it feels like he’s a different person who is just focussed on the results and not enjoying the racing.
After China I had a really ominous feeling. He’d had a mad start to the Sunday morning but came back and won in such great style. As a fan of a rival it scared me but gave me thrills at the same time. It was like he was all out for this season, nothing was going to stop him and he was enjoying the F1 scene. I just couldn’t imagine that happening now though.
Lewis is great, I’ve no doubt he’ll bounce back next year and I don’t buy that JB has blown him away this year because I think Hamilton’s messy season has been of his own doing mostly. However, if he doesn’t change his attitude or calm down a bit he’s going to struggle and I won’t even enjoy watching his comeback.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
25th September 2011, 15:46
I’m going to start claiming royalties every time someone uses that sentence from now on. I’ll put the money to good use – I think I’ll buy a front wing from McLaren, so that Lewis has one less to abuse. Maybe then he’ll start showing some common sense.
AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
25th September 2011, 16:10
Ha! Well said.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
25th September 2011, 16:27
Don’t get me wrong – I want Hamilton to enjoy the levels of success he’s had in the past. But I think he’s just trapped in a self-destructive cycle. He was, after all, the first man to prove that Vettel could be beaten. Better still, he did it early in the season before Vettel started running away with it. But from then on, Hamilton kept doing everything right and still came up second-best. That’s got to gnaw at him on some level, even if he denies it. I think he’s really over-compensated, and it’s defiantely showing itself in his racing. He’s falling further and further behind when he was expected – and expecting – to be leading the charge. Instead, he was the first of the five title contenders to fall by the wayside. I’m sure his fans will come back with some explanaton about how Lewis is driving better than ever, but the way I see it, he just can’t see beyond his front wing right now. And all the while, Button is consolidating his position as team leader within McLaren. I’d say that right now, the car is playing more to Button’s strengths than to Hamilton’s, and if things keep going the way they are currently, 2012 is going to be a very interesting year in the McLaren pit garage. Then, of course, there was this article in The Daily Fail about how Hamilton “will not wait forever” for McLaren to give him a competitive car – but based on the past few races, Jenson Button is the fast horse than Woking should be betting on.
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
25th September 2011, 16:37
I was about to point out that.
Hamilton saying he “will not wait forever” for Mclaren to give him a competitive car shows how frustrated he must be at the moment, IMO.
He’s been going faster than the car, basically, over the last few races. Chances of making mistakes and getting involved in clashes are the price to pay in those situations. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn’t.
I bet he’s been trying everything to go faster and faster, and it’s not been working for him as of lately.
That’s why Jenson’s outscoring him and outpacing him at the moment. He’s not risking as much, and he’s having a lot more clean races (probably the cleanest of them all across the grid, with the exception of SV).
GameR_K (@gamer_k)
25th September 2011, 17:21
Lewis has his mind fixed that he is driving a slow car, which explains the 4 podiums and rest 4th or below finishes. Compare this to Button who has equal number of race wins to Lewis and twice the number of podiums. When Hamilton entered the F1 scene he was the prodigy who gave Alonso a run for his money. Five years into it somehow he has just stagnated, while others seem to have graduated. Lewis reminds me of the teens who get distracted by the new gizmos and start failing in studies but wouldn’t accept reality.
@HoHum (@hohum)
25th September 2011, 21:00
It might be McLaren that won’t wait forever, but I hope Lewis turns it around.
AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
25th September 2011, 21:51
Yea, like HoHum said, it might be McLaren who lose their rag first! I’m sure that’s getting ahead of ourselves though.
Steph (@)
25th September 2011, 16:28
I actually did mean to mention you there and that I agreed earlier on but I deleted my comment by accident, had to type it out again and just forgot so I am really sorry for that PM!
Younger Hamii (@younger-hamii)
25th September 2011, 15:52
Just to summarise your Statement,I think Jenson has learnt from Lewis in terms of Driving but has retained his Patience,Intelligence(Not that Lewis is stupid) & Wise factor.
Same goes with Lewis especially,He’s got a lot to take in from this season,Including the fact sometimes you gotta be patient & pick out when & where you’re gonna overtake.You’re right,Lewis’ Mindset needs to be seriously adjusted.
BasCB (@bascb)
25th September 2011, 19:28
To be honest, I think Hamilton is turning the tides. He used Monza as a bit of a base to get into a finish again, sure being overcautious and not really exiting at all. But here he was on a good run and more or less kept his cool.
Yes, hitting Massa was not good, but after that he did some nice passes, partly DRS assisted, some of it without and he kept the pace up.
To me that looks like he is on the road back up to being successfull as well as exiting to watch.
electrolite (@electrolite)
25th September 2011, 22:34
Completely agree. As a Brit I am proud that we have a driver of such pace, charisma and calibre but on too many occasions this year I have honestly thought his driving and respect for other drivers has been pretty dire.
It’s alright him and his fans saying the stewards always penalise him but that fact is, nearlly every single time that is his own fault and whether his likes it or not, no one else gets into anywhere near as much bother.
Doance (@doance)
25th September 2011, 15:47
Remember when Vettel’s dominance was supposably over? He only won 1 in 5 races at one stage.
David-A (@david-a)
25th September 2011, 16:12
Yeah, he’s truly put that to bed now with three wins and four poles in a row.
AndrewTanner (@andrewtanner)
25th September 2011, 16:14
Good results for Kovalainen, Massa (all things considered) and Di Resta.
Hamilton’s antics aside he still had a decent finish.
matt90 (@matt90)
25th September 2011, 16:50
Was it though for Massa? He finished 4 places behind Hamilton, despite being in front of him after the drive-through. Sure, the Ferrari was slower than the McLaren, but by that amount?
GameR_K (@gamer_k)
25th September 2011, 17:14
Alonso finished 50 secs off the leader, that after a safety car. That should explain a lot about Ferrari’s pace
matt90 (@matt90)
25th September 2011, 21:09
Good point. I didn’t think about how relatively slow Alonso was compared to Button.
Prisoner Monkeys (@prisoner-monkeys)
25th September 2011, 16:15
Why is Bruno Senna listed as driving car #29?
Fer no.65 (@fer-no65)
25th September 2011, 16:29
Because then we can talk about something else than Renault sucking at this GP.
Keith Collantine (@keithcollantine)
25th September 2011, 17:22
Not sure – fixed it.
Rui
25th September 2011, 16:22
Considering Bruno’s pit stop to change the nose, his pace was much better than Petrov’s.
DaveW (@dmw)
25th September 2011, 18:46
Vettel kind of entered another realm of stature today. This is what Newey meant by winning in style. That was just a beat-down. Whitmarsh telling Button he could catch Vettel up in the traffic was touching. Vettel could put a second on Button at any moment, as was clear throughout the race.
wasiF1 (@wasif1)
26th September 2011, 2:37
Good result for Force India. & see a Group Lotus is ahead of a Team Lotus.
MJSV
27th September 2011, 12:13
Sebastian <3 RedBull <3